Noisy Neighbors

before 10pm no problem...after a problem. Issue might be the neighbor has their windows open. But thats their problem.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 3:05 PM

Sennheiser might be moving into the ultrasound speaker market but it will probably be a few years until a decent product is available.

The closed door test isn't really fair in the summer.

Its Park Slope- people complain the birds are too loud.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 3:19 PM

I find outside music generally quite annoying! It's like a loud cell phone conversation on a train--the people doing it are either manifesting a cluelessness that they are inflicting their noise on other people, or they don't care if other people are forced to listen. I always feel as if the person playing the music just presumes that we like their music too--which is frequently far from the case!

If you are receiving complaints, your music is clearly bothering someone. Either you should turn your music way down, or stop playing it by 9 pm for sure!

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 3:35 PM

I say turn off the music outside if it's bothering a neighbor. I think it's ok to socialize in your garden and that 10Pm is a fair knock off time. I don't think the OP's closed door test is good though, because not everyone has their house closed up and AC's on. Many people have their windows and backdoors open and sound really carries in the rear yard donut.

And to 3AM eternal. I go to bed at 10:00 and get up at 5:00. I wouldn't mind listening to music outside while I have my breakfast at 5:30 AM but wouldn't do it because it would be rude.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 3:39 PM

Holy crap. That's a few very lenient, understanding posters you just found yourself. I wonder, though, whether they'd be so understanding if your music was streaming into their subconscious. It's like smokers. I don't care if you smoke. But don't let that get near my lungs if I'm in my house or my garden.

I can tolerate any amount of white noise. But someone else's private taste in music -- a very personal experience for most people -- is not something I want imposed on me. EVER. And I bet you that if some jackass was playing something annoying while you were trying to work/garden/relax next door, you'd have a problem with it too.

Maybe that's what your neighbors should do. Play music at the same time as you, at the same volume as you, right next door.

Do you really have to have everything your way, including the airwaves?

Privacy in new york is so rare and, to me, so sacred. Have some respect.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 3:40 PM

In response to 3:40, as well as the exclamation point happy 3:35, I don't have to have everything my way, which is specifically why I posted this question. I wanted to get a real feel for what people feel is appropriate in Park Slope. People who have lived in the neighborhood for many years need to understand that those of us who have been living in Manhattan for many years and dealing with an entirely different living environment don't always know the standards that they live by. We're considerate people who are attempting to make our neighbors happy while still enjoying our space. That being said, our neighbors also have to realize that everything can't be there way either. We did not receive a visit or call from an unhappy neighbor, but instead an anonymous letter requesting that we keep all music indoors. The letter was very nicely written, but it didn't give us anyone to respond to, or allow us to reach a mutual understanding with the person who wrote it. Accordingly, I have to resort to this message board to attempt to find out what's reasonable for members of the community and parents with small children. I am happy to listen to my music at lower levels and even to turn it off altogether by 9pm, but asking us to never listen to music outside is somewhat unfair to us as well. Certainly if a neighbor ever requested that we turn the music off for a certain reason then we would be happy to do that.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 3:52 PM

My personal rule: till 9, whatever you want. after 9, be cool. after 10, be verrrry cool.

But my guess is that no matter how low you turn down the music, your neighbors will be snotty little whiners because you're the noob who's invaded 'their' mental space. No way to win this one so just be as respectful as you can, without caving in completely. Two way street and all that.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 3:57 PM

Lame excuse, OP. I've lived in Manhattan all my teenage and early twenties life, including soho and lower east. the only annoying music I ever had to deal with was dominican on weekends, and that was afternoon-ish.

this has nothing to do with kids. maybe they just hate whatever you're spinning? Cut down on the Coldplay or Christian Country or whatever you're playing.

Another suggestion, though, is that if you do want to play music later into the eve for some specific reason (party, etc) just send out little letters to everyone giving them a heads up ahead of time. Then if they complain, they better do it to your face and before said event, otherwise you can just say: TOO LATE.

I have these stoners who live right below me in Alphabet City and they smoke pot all night (wafts right into my bedroom) and talk outside so loudly I can hear them when I'm taking a shower. I can't tell them to take it inside, because it's their balcony, you know? But god, I hate them so much. And if I had kids, I would def call the cops on them.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 4:00 PM

Jimmy Legs, every other party I go to in Bushwick gets busted by the cops for noise, it's like they're the Bushwick neighborhood watch or something. no one is safe.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 4:06 PM

My point was that when living in Manhattan for the past 4 years we never had a single complaint about our music...we try to keep our music at reasonable levels...and definitely no Coldplay or Christian Country. We lived in a building with elderly couples and families and never had a problem, the main difference is that in that space we didn't have a backyard. So, now we're just trying to figure out what's a reasonable use of our new outdoor space. As you mentioned, if we're having some sort of party we would definitely give our neighbors a heads up in advance.

As some posters have mentioned, everyone has different taste in music so you can't make everyone happy, but maybe when we're outside we'll try to keep it to something softer like Norah Jones to try to offend as few people as possible...and just because things don't translate that well over IM, I'm being serious, not sarcastic.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 4:12 PM

Again, I understand noisy pain in the arse neighbors...have had them myself before and I certaintly don't want to be one of them. That being said, I do think the standards in Park Slope are different from those in Manhattan...at least the W. Village where I used to live. There was constant noise around us at all times and at some point you get used to it. Now obviously we recognize that things are quieter in the Slope and that there are different levels of noise and music that are appropriate given the close quarters and the use of outdoor space. We just weren't aware of how much sound carried in the outdoor spaces...particularly since the anonymous letter we received was labeled as being from a neighbor who lives 2 blocks away...I'm truly shocked that our music could have carried that far and realize what that must mean for those neighbors who live right next door. We're definitely going to make an effort to be more considerate we're just trying to figure out the boundaries. Does being considerate mean forgoing music altogether? I don't think it does, I think it just means being aware of those around you, being aware of the sound you're putting out there and recognizing when you may have guests over that are being too loud and trying to move things inside...all things that we plan to do going forward.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 4:27 PM

Backyard music/entertaining is a very sensitive subject. I appreciate your consideration and thoughtfulness in bringing up the subject, but please keep in mind that you are surrounded by families with small children, elderly people, people who may be ill (of any age), people who retire by 10:00 pm (or earlier) and get up very early, etc. One of my neighbors had a party in their backyard until 4:00 am the other night, and the more people drink, the louder they get, and the less they notice or care about the noise, including the hosts.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 4:28 PM

Sorry Brooklynnative, we're not your noisy neighbors...unless sound travels REALLY far in the Slope :)

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 4:33 PM

I say just play your music, but keep it low. I think you have to have the speakers close to you and the sound low enough that if you walk to the far end of your garden area you won't be able to hear it. That's what I do and haven't had any complaints. Of course, we can hardly hear the music ourselves :-)

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 4:43 PM

OP: you just made my point, exactly. I absolutely HATE Nora Jones. I'd rather listen to death metal or babies crying than Nora Jones -- which to me is the equivalent of chinese torture, except it's little drops of cheesy wishywashiness.

If you were playing her crap, I wouldn't just write you a note, i'd friggin shred your tires. (I assume you have a prius or beat up old defender/landcruiser out front to go with that record).

Ok now I'm being snarky.

Where did you play your music when you were in the city? On your roof? Fire escape?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 4:45 PM

I go to bed early and I find it rude when neighbors play music outside past 9pm. Someone else posted a similar comment above, but when I wake up at 5:30am, I often feel like giving it back to these neighbors, just out of spite. But I don't, because I don't want to punish my other neighbors. I grew up in Brooklyn and the cops were called to every teen party. Now I'm the cranky old lady who wants to call the cops.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 4:47 PM

Okay, so Norah Jones is out...any other suggestions? :)

I really do appreciate all the comments, I'm trying to get a sense of what the general acceptability levels are so this is very helpful.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 4:49 PM

It's funny, I guess I do take myself really seriously! I can't play my music loud when i'm in my garden, i'm just too embarrassed -- I feel like I'm one of those a-holes in the convertible trying to draw attention to myself.

Having said that, I blast my music in my house, and I'm sure it must carry through the walls. That kinda goes for sex, too. ;) I figure if it's behind closed doors, none of your business, but outside -- that's public space.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 4:50 PM

The music reverberates through the entire block of houses to which you are connected. It may not seem loud to you but it rises up and out to EVERY house who's backyard aabuts your block. We never play music outdoors for this reason. I definitely do not think you should play music outdoors. It's still shared space.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 5:14 PM

What about BBQing? If I throw 5 juicey steaks on the grill, surely everyone nearby is going to smell my dry-aged porterhouse steaks cooking.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 5:23 PM

I go to bed before 10 every night and do not sleep with A/C so I sleep with my windows open. I do not want to hear anyone else's music. Nora Jones or Death Metal. Keep it indoors. One of the reasons people move to Brooklyn is because it's quieter.. So you can actually hear the birds in your backyard... not someone else's music.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 5:36 PM

5:23, I actually find the smell of burning flesh really disgusting! But that's a whole other post.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 6:10 PM

Okay, so this is what I'm getting from everyone. For those of you who think that playing music at all is okay as long as we're respectful, that means playing music at moderate levels until about 9pm. The rest of the group thinks that playing music at all is rude.

So, I guess we'll try to fall somewhere in the middle. We won't play music unnecessarily, but we will enjoy it quietly on occasion. In any event, we'll do our best to shut off the music by 9...unless it's the weekend and we're having a party and then we'll give our immediate neighbors a heads up.

Thanks for all of your help....I will do my best not to disturb the peacefulness of the Slope :)

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 6:23 PM

Okay, so this is what I'm getting from everyone. For those of you who think that playing music at all is okay as long as we're respectful, that means playing music at moderate levels until about 9pm. The rest of the group thinks that playing music at all is rude.

So, I guess we'll try to fall somewhere in the middle. We won't play music unnecessarily, but we will enjoy it quietly on occasion. In any event, we'll do our best to shut off the music by 9...unless it's the weekend and we're having a party and then we'll give our immediate neighbors a heads up.

Hopefully this will be sufficient for our neighbors who wrote the letter and all those nearby.

Thanks for all of your help....I will do my best not to disturb the peacefulness of the Slope :)

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 6:24 PM

Hah ha ha Brooklyn quieter than Manhattan?! Ha ha heh heh. I guess you don't live in a Caribbean neighborhood, 5:36!

Sometimes I wish my neighbors (with small kids I might add) would turn it down a notch. Their music goes way past 11 (both the time and on the volume dial). But 9pm is totally OK by me and is common in my neighborhood. I turn on the AC if I need peace.

Besides, those ubiquitous f-ing ice cream trucks are way more annoying than anyone's back yard music.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 6:45 PM

I agree that you should not play music outside except for the occasional party. Turn the music off, listen to the birds, and let your neighbors do the same.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 7:50 PM

Thank you for being honest and presenting this clearly hot button issue. My suggestion, in addition to other reasonable suggestions, invite your neighbors over one weekend when you are home. People tend to be more tolerant when they know each other.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 7:51 PM

i'm shocked that so many people have a problem with any music any time. i live in fort greene and while i'm not so pleased when there are rooftop's full of drunk people singing at 2 am on a sunday night/monday morning...no music ever?? i think playing music at a low level in the evening is perfectly acceptable. if you play your music fairly quietly and turn it off and keep conversation low after 9 pm on weekdays, your neighbors really have nothing to complain about. we all live in close proximity and need to respect our neighbors and be mindful of their schedules, but they too have to keep in mind that - though it's park slope and they may have kids - they live in an urban environment in which there are many different people living different lifestyles within earshot. if they have to close their windows sometimes, what's the big deal?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 8:52 PM

*if they have to close their windows sometimes, what's the big deal?*

Why are you being so noisy that I have to close my windows? I like my windows open, and I don't want to hear your crappy music. Or any music. Why does your right to listen to music supercede my right to have quiet in my own home? I don't think it does. Listen to your music inside, not outside.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 10:21 PM

Whats with this facination with playing music all the damn time anyway? I cant stand this ME generation that has to have music on all the time and be constantly entertained especially outside - listen to yourself for a change, turn it off! Who the heck would even think of playing music outside at night? You must have your heads up your arses.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 10:26 PM

Wow. Don't you people realize that you live in a city?

I have always thought of myself as being really noise sensitive. Until now.

My own thoughts about music:

1. I don't want to hear your music at a volume I can't ignore or drown out.
2. I don't want to hear your music invading my house for longer than about an hour.
3. I don't want to get to know you as That Norah Jones (or whatever) Asshole.
4. But man, I also don't want to commit you to a lonely ipod experience!

To let your neighbor occasionally rock out or whatever is to be neighborly. It is equally neighborly not to take advantage of other people's understanding.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 10:33 PM

10:26, I gotta agree with you. I'm a musician, I spend most of my life living through my ears, but I don't get this background-musical-accompaniment-to-everything-I-do, mood setting crap. I just don't get it. If I'm in a garden, I want to hear the birds, the distant echoes of voices or the hum of passing cars. Or just the silence of the evening. Or my friends chatting. But that's just me.

I certainly would not consider sharing my musical appetite with people who didn't actually consent to it. It's borderline molestation. And definitely provocative.

And that's not just me. That's just the reality of living in the city.

If you have the luxury of leaving the city, perhaps you should use that time to rock out.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2007 11:07 PM

i'm kind of surprised that no one has mentioned this solution: wireless headphones. they'll give you the music you want while you're working and you won't disturb your neighbors at all.

i suggest this as someone who lives next door to a going-deaf elderly woman who listens to talk radio in her back yard approximately 8 hours a day, and sometimes so loud that i can identify the stations she's listening to from inside my house with the windows closed. only way i got her to turn it down was to shame her with the offer to buy her a pair of headphones. (she's definitely wealthy enough to afford them herself.)

also, with this kind of issue, there's the 'recurrence factor.' if the woman next door to me only did this one day a week, say, i might never have complained. but the fact that it was every day--or, in your case, every night--that gets to be more than a little grating.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 22, 2007 10:16 AM

The neighbors that complained were 2 Blocks Away. That means the music was up too loud. Sound echoes like crazy in those backyards as it bounces off all the buildings. If you play it quietly (and not every night) I'm sure you will not get complaints.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 22, 2007 1:17 PM

Wow, I never expected to get so many conflicting responses to this question! Thank you all for the advice, I do think we will do our best to keep the music to a minimum, while still enjoying it on occasion (of course not into the late hours). The truth of the matter is that because of our busy schedules we will probably only be using our outdoor space a couple of nights a week...we just started off using it a lot because we were trying to get things settled back there and also had some friends who wanted to come visit our new neighborhood and check out our new place. I don't think it will be a problem to work this out with our neighbors going forward if we keep things reasonable and aren't out there making a raucous every night. I still think that imposing an across the board "music indoors" policy is too restrictive, especially when living in an urban environment. But, now that we know how much the sound carries we'll be more aware of the noise we're making. The fact of the matter is that in our prior apartment you couldn't hear a siren 2 blocks away, let alone someone playing music at low levels. Settling into a new space takes some getting used to and hopefully our neighbors will understand that and be reasonable with us just as we plan to be with them.

Now I just have to figure out how to tell all of our neighbors that we're planning a day-time housewarming party in a few weeks...most likely some amounts of music will be involved...

Posted by: Anonymous at June 22, 2007 1:58 PM

Call 311 - within reason.

I think that past 9 or 10 is too much. But it depends...Loud drunken voices, clinking bottles, partying going way past midnight on weeknights...

We had a recurring episode on our street. Newly renovated apartment house and come the first of the month, the double garden apartment tenants were out in the yard at all hours...celebrating. It went on for a week and yes, it totally disturbed the residential quiet that preceded them. (we have a mixed family, elderly, singles neighborhood)

This was in late spring, so school was still on. Kids turn in around 7-9 PM and then if they can't fall asleep get really upset and so on.

One of us folks spoke to one of the buildings owners (no, they don't live there) and was told, "come on, you were young once right? Next night without us all knowing it, about 6 or 7 calls to 311 were made. 311 generates a ticket number (which is trackable). Then the info is forwarded to the local police precinct and then they contact the landlord.

Most people in an urban setting are either sensitive and decent or crass/rude and obnoxious. Part of the living togetherness that you get when you are not in a McMansion with lots of land between you. A lot of suburban young folks are coming into the nabe and I think that they are not used to tighter living quarters.

Then again, why do we all have to have music on outside all the time anyway. Music is big in my life, I play a few instruments and sing (as do my wife and kids). I love the "folk" playing that might be outside, but in general, we keep our music inside ALL THE TIME.

Oh yeah, and what the heck is up with the loud car radios. I wish that no car could be that loud. I find that those cars and their empty-headed drivers are a real quality of life issue.

Maurice

Posted by: Anonymous at June 22, 2007 3:47 PM

I definitely expect that only if you are having an ocassional party will you have tunes pumping in your yard that are so loud I can hear it through my windows. Otherwise you betcha I'm calling 311. And if they aren't coming you and all your fun loving pals checking out our formerly quiet borough and going to be grooving to my tunes, but you only get to enjoy the thumpin bass because I'm turning them up way loud. You'll be heading indoors soon.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 23, 2007 12:58 AM