Forum
« Pratt Council Homes Lottery?? Any Info? garden lighting »
May 21, 2007
Non renewal of lease guidelines?
My tenant's lease expires at the end of June. I called her yesterday to tell her I would be needing the apartment and therefore would not be renewing her lease. She became very angry and wanted to know why exactly, had she done something wrong, etc. I told her I'd be needing it for myself since I'm going to be getting married. She countered by saying that if I knew I was getting married then I should have told her even earlier, and then she dropped that she was pregnant, which I had no idea about. Even if I had known, I still need the apt. and need her out. So, my question is, did I give enough time (it's about six weeks), and will she give me problems because she's pregnant? Are there certain laws that say I can't throw her out at the end of the lease because she's pregnant? It sounds so ridiculous; there are so many apartments available and after all, it IS my house (no rent control or rent stabilized apts.). Any insight would be so appreciated --THANK YOU!
anon
Comments
you should have given her at least 90 days (3 months). That is what the Rent Stablized leases do. It takes a lot for a tenant to move, and it is very costly. Basically they have to pay triple or quadruple rent the following month (realtor fee, security, first and last month's rent). Oh well...she's gonna have a miserable summer now.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 21, 2007 5:21 PM
i'm not sure if your notice is illegal, not sure what kind of property you have. you are probably in the clear.
regardless, 6 weeks seems to me to be a very short amount of time to find a new apartment and move. assuming you knew you were getting married for a while now, common courtesy would dictate that you give your tenant a healthy advance notice. personally i would have given her 3 months.
i'm sure others will disagree. just my 2 cents.
Posted by: benno at May 21, 2007 5:23 PM
Can you give her more time?
Six weeks is not very much time. Probably legal but not very nice. It's hard to find an apartment in the city--there's a housing shortage and all. And it's really, really expensive.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 21, 2007 5:25 PM
Think about it. Put yourself in her shoes. You got an emotional reaction and it is understandable, although you are within the letter of the law. I gave my tenant 5 months notice just to make sure she really left. If you put all your effort to finding a place and getting one and packing and moving and you are working full tilt at it, then you can barely do it. She will have to pay for a mover on top of other moving related costs.
Was she a good tenant? Can you give her more time? Can you pay her moving costs? If you have to go to court, they will probably give her 6 months anyway.
Posted by: anon at May 21, 2007 5:36 PM
As the above stated it is probably legal but on a human level its not very nice. Also if she does decide to not move right away an eviction in nyc is slow and can be a costly process. If you MUST have the space within six weeks i would say the nice thing to do at this point would be to say you are going to give her 3 months to move but if she moves within six weeks you will give her x amount (Some amount that will make moving less costly, aka not 200 bucks). Just an FYI, i am not renewing the lease on my tenant and i gave her six months notice.
Posted by: AnnaBee at May 21, 2007 5:42 PM
What does your lease say about notice? I believe one month's notice is usually standard if you receive rent on a monthly basis. It would be nice, but not required to give your tenant a little more time (1-2 months) to find a place. I would not pay her to leave.
Posted by: keep at May 21, 2007 5:47 PM
You are giving your tenant such short notice...
it's very difficult to relocate in such a brief period of time.
Just imagine being told yourself to pack up and leave your home in six weeks.
Treat others the way you would want to be treated yourself.
Posted by: bren at May 21, 2007 7:58 PM
Technically you can give her 30 days. What I would suggest is that let her know that you're not renewing her lease, and that her lease will become month-to-month once it expires. Then tell her you're giving her notice that she must leave three months.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 21, 2007 9:18 PM
I think six weeks is a bit too short.
12 weeks to find a place sounds like enough time. Make it clear that she still has to pay the rent during this time. The time is a courtesy to find a place and not a free ride.
Keep in mind that you want her to leave the place in good condition and not damage the place in anger for being pushed out.
I would do what anon 9:18pm said: tell her you won't renew the leave and that it becomes month to month at its expiration and that you want her out at the end of whatever month gives her 3 months.
Posted by: victor at May 21, 2007 9:50 PM
I disagree with all of the other posts, 6 weeks is fine. 30 days is all that is required and it makes little sense for anyone to start looking for a new place before that. This person is renting an apt. and their lease ran out. If an extension was so important to her she should have asked about it sooner.
Send her a letter stating that the lease will not be renewed so you have everything in writing.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 21, 2007 11:32 PM
If there's no stabilation, control, then you need to give her 30 days IN WRITING. Verbal don't count. 30 days is from nearest end of month, so if you gave her notice on May 15 then she's allowed to stay until June 31. If you gave her notice May 2 then it's still June 31.
Note, that's the legal mimimum, not saying that's what you should do.
Posted by: John at May 21, 2007 11:40 PM
I also give six months notice for non renewal.
That being said, it is your apartment the tenant knows they are subject to a lease. You are within your rights. I do not think additional time or compensation is needed.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 22, 2007 7:06 AM
Nobody was disputing that OP was within his/her rights. People were saying it would've been nice of OP to let the tenant know sooner. Why wait if OP knew in advance? It's just....selfish.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 22, 2007 8:05 AM
Is there a clause in the lease saying she can't have sex in the apartment?
Posted by: Anonymous at May 22, 2007 8:11 AM
Very NOT nice, I love that you refer to it as "throwing" her out, because you are almost throwing her out. You really should do the right thing here
Posted by: anon at May 22, 2007 9:49 AM
6 weeks is adequate for finding a place. I rented in NYC for 12 years and never signed a new lease more than 2 weeks before taking occupancy. Things move fast in this market.
HOWEVER, 6 weeks is a bit short notice for someone to adjust to the IDEA of moving in any market. Maybe you could have dropped hints earlier, but don't worry... she will get over it.
If you think she will be a problem, send her a letter offering her month-to-month tenancy at a huge rent increase. That way you can argue you acted in good faith.
In any case, you should be doing all this, or at least following up, in writing via certified mail. I'm not sure about the letter of the law, but in general, I think you're supposed to give them 30 days to give you 30 days notice in their reply (ie: 60 days total).
Even if this isn't a legal requirement, it's a good rule of thumb. Regardless of the legal specifics, your case is a lot stronger both in court and in reasoning with tenants if you can show you acted in good faith.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 22, 2007 9:57 AM
More often than not it's not so much what is done but how it's done. Before you became the lord of the land, how difficult was it for you to find an apartment in this city? Yes, it's your house but you should have given her more notice, preferably written, lease or no lease to avoid the confrontation.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 22, 2007 9:57 AM
Personally, I think tenants and landlords should
follow the same protocol. As a landlord, I have
yet to encounter a tenant who gave me more than
6 weeks notice. I don't require my tenants to
renew their leases sooner than that because most
don't want to make a commitment any farther ahead.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 22, 2007 10:41 AM
Yes, while you may be within the law by giving only six weeks, the reasonable and kind thing to do would be to give three months. You should not be surprised that you got an emotional reaction, though she is a tenant, the apartment is still her home and she has every right to feel upset for being told she needs to vacate, and with such short notice. Keep in mind that she may not have planned financially to have the cash available for a new security deposit, broker's fee, etc. Though six weeks is probably enough time to find a place, it would be the decent thing to do to tell her she can have another month or two should she require it.
Posted by: anon at May 22, 2007 10:56 AM
One quibble with 9:18's comments. I wouldn't convert it to month to month. If you are willing to extend for a month or two, sign a specific lease extension with an end date. Much easier to enforce and you have a mutually agreed upon end date. Sets a clearer expectation on all sides.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 22, 2007 12:02 PM
OP here: Thank you all for your perspectives on the matter. I'm glad I am in fact within the law as it is more than the required 30 days' notice. I have always been GIVEN exactly 30 days when the tenant has left, so I thought I was definitely being generous. I feel I need to respond to a few of the comments: TO 5:21 PM--Yes, I do understand how expensive it can be to find another apt. When I was nine years old, my dad died of cancer. On the day of his death we got a visit from the landlord stating that the rent would be doubled. We couldn't afford it and essentially became "homeless" for about three months, living on different couches and floors of various family and friends (my mom, my baby brother and myself). So, yes, I do understand being "thrown out". I am not doing that here, by any means. This is a woman and fiance who earn close to $150K a year and have a great network of friends. I'm sure they can land on their feet. I've only raised their rent a total of $75 in the three years of her occupancy, ie I'm not greedy or money hungry. TO 8:11 AM--That was totally uncalled for. I've been a great landlord, which is probably why she doesn't want to leave. But life circumstances change. I became engaged about 3 weeks ago. Informing my tenant of this was not the first thing on my mind. I began to think I'd like to have the apartment as my own not too long ago. I'll need time for renovations and customizations to the apt to be ready for a Fall wedding. In any case, I know I'm within my rights now and am grateful to your answers. I just hope the best for her and that she finds an apartment that she'll enjoy. I don't want to leave off on bad terms with her because we had a pleasant relationship. I guess I'm seeing the reality of the saying that you can't please all of the people all of the time. If it was a different situation, I would definitely have given her more time. And I will hence forward to anyone else should I wish to not renew the lease, even though tenants typically don't extend this same rule of thumb. Again, thank you.
Posted by: anon at May 22, 2007 4:50 PM
I think that landlords are always mistaken for jerks in these kinds of situations no matter what you do. In the past I've really been the one to suffer when I give tenants more than a month or two worth of notice about the lease not being renewed. Basically then they get very anxious and start looking for a place right away. And they see places they like and realize that if they want them they will have to break my lease to get it. So that's what they do. And when I've bent over backwards to give tenants "extra time" on a month to month situation usually they all swear they aren't leaving until a couple of months down the road. And then they too find the perfect place and leave me in the lurch for the next month's rent since I haven't shown their place. Tenants are lame. Make sure you get 2 months security deposit because that nice tenant of yours will probably be only thinking of him or herself when it's time to move on and stiff you for the last month's rent.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 22, 2007 7:16 PM
OP you are the recipient of undeserved criticism here. You did the right thing. Do not feel bad about it. Tenants break leases all the time, in my experience. Every single time, in fact. You did not break the lease, you told them you weren't renewing the lease. They sign a one year lease. If it does not have an option to renew, that's all they are entitled to and that's all they should expect. The people posting here are sadly mistaken.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 22, 2007 8:46 PM
OP that was truly an awfully sad thing that happened to your family when your Dad died... I can't even begin to imagine anyone being so heartless towards a grieving family.
Posted by: bren at May 22, 2007 11:05 PM
OP Here: To the last three posters...thank you. I feel like I try to do the right thing with my tenants but get torn apart sometimes. It's sometimes frustrating to be a landlord. I wish I did not need the income but sadly I do.
Posted by: anon at May 23, 2007 4:45 AM
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.