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April 23, 2007
Westchester v. Brooklyn
I am cut and pasting a question I left in the Open House thread at someone's suggestion for more responses.... Here it goes: Not to spark a huge debate here, but I have been contemplating leaving the city (B'lyn/Manhattan) for Westchester for the reasons mentioned above - much cheaper housing; not a bad commute; etc... Please tell me why I should stay in Brookyln when a 3600 SF brownstone will cost over $1.7 million (and then will require $500K in renovations) when I could buy a huge, gorgeous house in Westchester in mint condition for under $1.6M. Plus, the commute is not really that much longer. I love living in B'lyn, but I finding it harder and harder to justify staying here... Please tell me why I should....
Comments
My husband and i were actually discussing this very issue. The prices in westchester are cheaper but the real estate taxes are much higher (between 15k - 25k a year). So overall its hard to say which is truly cheaper but they are definitely comparable. The big thing we came up with though is that the public lower schools in Westchester are excellent and are much better than the majority of public lower schools in brooklyn. If you have kids moving to westchester seems like a no brainer unless you live in one of the few good public school districts in brooklyn. But on another level some people prefer urban living to the suburbs. At that level its purely a matter of personal preference. I guess the point we came up with is if we had kids and we couldn't find a good public school to send them too we would move to westchester.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 11:06 AM
would you send your kids to private schools in Brooklyn? if so, there is no reason. the property tax advantage vanishes in that case.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 11:17 AM
Real estate taxes are a consideration as well as the cost of commuting but its a lot more than the cost of real estate. Brooklyn in a city in of itself with all the joys and tribulations of one. Westchester is a totally differnt lifestyle in many ways.
If you need the strangers on a message board to tell you why you should live in Brooklyn, this isn't the place for you.
I love living here and could site a million reaons why and those same reasons rule out Westchester as an option. Im willing to pay a premium to live here because of those reasons. If you can't come up with reasons to live here, you should move to an area that fits your lifestyle and that you will love.
Life is too short to do otherwise.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 11:23 AM
errr...because you want to live in brooklyn...
to answer the question you have to be able to value the intangibles of living in brooklyn versus westchester...the math on housing, taxes, schools etc. is the math on housing, taxes, schools etc. but only you can value these intangibles...
for me the equation is simple...live in brooklyn and pay much more for my house or live in Westchester and shoot myself in the head with 4 weeks because I live in a generic, commuter, homogeneous community...no stranger on a bulletin board had to talk me into choosing the former...
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 11:24 AM
Financially it is a wash. The taxes are OUTRAGEOUSLY high in Westchester which adds 500-700 a month more than you pay here. You will also pay more for heating (detached house), electric and landscaping. Not to mention, in Brooklyn you do not need a car. Really you dont. In Westchester you do...really you do. SO factor in all the cost of a car to do everything (car payment, car insurance, car registration, car inspection, gas, maintenance, tolls and parking). Add to that the price of commuting (probably 3 to 6 times as much as the subway). The monthly expense of living in Westchester starts to add up quick and gets closer to the price of living in Brooklyn. Also Brooklyn offers more options of having a tenant or tenants to help reduce the cost of living even more. Yes there are two families in Westchester, but they are much less desirable than a single family home.
Posted by: Tom at April 23, 2007 11:28 AM
Oranges to oranges, people. Westchester is a big place - are you talking Bronxville, Rye, Larchmont, Hastings, Pelham? There are definitely towns in Westchester where COL is cheaper than say, Park Slope or Fort Greene (assuming single-family brownstone & 4-bedroom house). But it all boils down to personal preference. City over burbs, burbs over city.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 11:32 AM
I grew up in westchester and would not move back.
Sex and drugs in junior high are out of control, also the general values (depending on the town)are not what I want for my kids. You need to drive nearly everywhere, taxes are extremeley high, etc...
In brooklyn, you can rent out an apartment in your brownston which would make it even cheeper. plus every reno doesn't cost 500k.
If you want a large green backyard, that would be my only reason to move
Posted by: anon at April 23, 2007 12:18 PM
It is a matter of lifestyle, because the taxes in Westchester are outrageous. You are paying for the public school system and here you have leverage in that you are able to have tenants, i.e. you control a larger piece of real estate value for less out of pocket expense because of rents. With kids, education would be the deciding variable.
Posted by: donatella at April 23, 2007 12:27 PM
OP here. Thanks for comments, but here are a few of my own:
1) Re taxes being high - true, but you do not pay NYC tax on your income, so it is somewhat a wash.
2) Re housing affordability - we saw some beautiful houses in westchester for under $1.6M. In Brooklyn (where we currently own a 1600 SF apt), we have not seen a single brownstone in PS, BH, or boerum Hill for under $1.8M (and those needed all new elec, plumbing, etc...)
3) We currently have a car, so that is a wash.
4) I like urban living (having lived in Manhattand or B'lyn for the past 10 years) and would love to stay, but I just don't see how we can given the cost of housing here....
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 12:36 PM
Just thought of something else.... There are other choices to Westchester. There are actually parts of New York City where you can get a nice detached house with attractive property in a pretty neighborhood and not pay Westchester taxes. Riverdale, the north shore of Staten Island... for example. I have a stake in the Brooklyn market but sometimes when you look at the value you can get in those areas versus some of the outrageously priced stuff in Brooklyn, I don't know. I think the questions you ask indicate that the Brooklyn market is fully priced and the period of outrageous price increases is really over.
Posted by: donatella at April 23, 2007 12:36 PM
Brooklyn has become like the suburbs, so there's not as much difference as people think. Disclosure: I grew up in Brooklyn and moved upstate (above Westchester) a few years ago. I have Bklyn residence to hang when I feel like it, but I don't think I'll ever move back full time. If you enjoy having everything at your fingertips and high energy living instead of fresh air and more space...stay in Bklyn
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 12:38 PM
We're moving to Westchester. We've lived in Brooklyn for decades, and my husband was born here. But we've now decided to leave--for all the obvious reasons from schools to housing costs to lower income taxes. As someone said, Westchester is huge and there are a thousand different lifestyles to be had there. After lots of searching, we decided to move to the northern edges, around Croton. It is beautiful, there are great schools (in many districts), there are great houses, and there is a large and growing cultural scense. No, it isn't Manhattan, but with 3 art film houses and performing arts centers, 4 contemporary art museums, a large number of galleries, and quite a large number of new interesting restaurants, there is quite a bit right there. We have friends who moved there from PLG a few years ago, and they adore it. Personally I could never live in a traditional burb with house next to house next to house. But the area we are looking in feels like Vermont. But the commute is just 50-65 minutes. Check it out.
Posted by: Going at April 23, 2007 12:43 PM
please move to wheschester this way i have a better chance in getting a Brownstone we wont miss you i promice.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 12:44 PM
I am looking in northern westchester too. I won't even try to convince these die-hard Brookylnites--it is "brownstoner" after all! But I will say that the wife dragged me kicking and screaming and I was totally expecting to hate it, but I really like it. And "going" is right that there is a lot of cultural stuff now. I don't know where we will end up, but I am now totally open to moving north. My suggestion is to take trips and see it for yourself.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 12:58 PM
"please move to wheschester this way i have a better chance in getting a Brownstone we wont miss you i promice."
considering you can't spell or construct a logical sentence, i doubt it's other buyers who are keeping you from owning a brownstone.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 1:03 PM
I was born here and I intend to die here. But I have about 4 sets of friends who have moved to Westchester in the last few years and they are all quite happy. We vistit friends who live up in Yorktown, near Croton, a lot and I love going there. Their friends are mostly ex-park slopers or upper west siders, and there are lots of writers, artists, and other crative types. Our kids adore being there. It is certainly not for everyone, but I can understand why they like it.
Posted by: rutlander at April 23, 2007 1:27 PM
I agree with the posters who said you have to make a personal choice -- Westchester and Brooklyn are two different worlds, and crunching numbers isn't going to give you an answer.
But if you're looking to stay in Brooklyn, you can still get a brownstone for under a million dollars in up-and-coming areas like Bed-Stuy, and you can rent out a floor for extra income. There are charter schools, magnet schools, and private schools that offer financial aid. There are ways to make it work raising kids in Brooklyn if you hustle and are resourceful.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 1:38 PM
And something that you need to know before you go - many of my friends who went to the Burbs (parts north as well as Jersey) became dissatisfied with the public schools in their new area, so they ended up enrolling the kids in private schools. Suddenly they found themselves paying "the kiddie tax" twice. That was many, not all of my friends, but before you head out of town based heavily on the $$ and cents analysis, get "full disclosure". All the best with your decision.
Posted by: wingo947 at April 23, 2007 2:47 PM
If you are only looking in PS BH and Boreum Hill, then you are in the Bronxville, Rye range... so go ahead and pay 20,000 a year in taxes
There are plenty of affordable Brownstones in the many diverse neighborhoods in brooklyn, that are only a half hour by subway from midtown manhattan. Of course you are not going to find a place that is in your range in the areas of Brooklyn you are looking in. They are Gold Coast status these days. You have to venture a little further.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 4:26 PM
If you can't tell the difference between Brooklyn and Westchester, please go to Westchester and take the tidal wave of uptight Manhattanites moving to Brooklyn with you.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 5:30 PM
You have to decide if you are a city mouse or a country mouse.
My take on Westchester - stuffy, stultified, verrrry conservative and Republican. The population trends older the city and all the uptight petty properness is (to me) boring and off-putting. I guess I decided a long time ago I decided I don't belong there and have enjoyed life a lot more here.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 5:33 PM
Westchester has no character and is not a vibrant urban environment. That's why you should stay in Brooklyn. It's pretty much that simple. I agree with 5:30. If you can't tell the difference, then leave. But before heading to Westchester, why not buy in Jackson Heights. It's a lot better than Brooklyn and cheaper and more diverse.
Posted by: Alex at April 23, 2007 5:33 PM
You have to decide if you are a city mouse or a country mouse.
My take on Westchester - stuffy, stultified, verrrry conservative and Republican. The population trends older the city and all the uptight petty properness is (to me) boring and off-putting. I guess I decided a long time ago I decided I don't belong there and have enjoyed life a lot more here.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 5:33 PM
If you can ask this question, you SHOULD move to Westchester--really.Good by, good, and have a nice life.
There's nothing wrong with Westchester, I guess, but really...
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 23, 2007 5:53 PM
OP again... I never understand why people get so hostile on this board. Do you have nothing else to do but read messages and act like an a**? Anyway, I guess I'd just like to know what other people love so much about urban living. My wife and I both work in the city, so we will have the benefits of Manhattan each and every day. The train runs pretty often, so we can stay as late as we like for cultural activities/restaurants before going home. Once you are in the four walls of your house, who cares whether your neighborhood is "stuffy, stultified, verrrry conservative and Republican"? Please explain....
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 6:29 PM
I know it's a cliche, but "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 23, 2007 6:59 PM
Not all of Westchester is Republican, that is whack. I grew up there in a very liberal area. Very white and homogeneous, but liberal.
Needing to drive depends on where in Westchester you live. I grew up a block from a park, a train station, and a supermarket, and about 2 blocks from the main drag. There wasn't a whole lot of driving going on.
As far as drugs in school etc. it doesn't matter where you live. There are bad elements everywhere. If the kids are looking for trouble they'll find it.
My big problem w/Westchester is that once you're home, there's no going out. No good restaurants, no delivery except pizza and maybe (if you're lucky) Chinese food. And if you don't have kids you're completely isolated.
But YOU must know what feels right for you... go with your gut.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 7:11 PM
That's not really Bob Marvin, is it?
OP, I'm one of the posters who moved upstate. Conservatives do bother me, I must admit. I skipped Westchester and went to Beacon. Artist community, hippy dippy folks, lots of ex Brooklyn people. Sometimes it's alittle slow for me, but I can get down to the city and get my fill in no time. You have to go where you feel comfortable. Why not check out areas like Mill Basin and Bay Ridge as well as SI and NJ?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 7:16 PM
Look, this is an idiotic discussion. If *you* don't know what's good about living in a place you've lived in for years, you'll never know. And that's not meant to be hostile. I mean, Westchester is suburban, with all the negatives (to someone like me) that that implies. It cannot be compared nohow with Brooklyn. You either like one or the other.
From some clues in your posts, you obviously do not really savor urban life...commuting to Manhattan is simply not the same as walking out your front door to the Brooklyn urbanscape. You say you have a 1600 sqft apartment. By most city standards, unless you have several children, that's plenty. So you desire more space..another suburban tendency.
But I will give you some advice. Whether you move or not, connect with your community and area somehow. That's what makes it yours, and you won't feel you have to move.
Posted by: anon at April 23, 2007 7:17 PM
A friend of mine told me about this debate. We moved out of Brooklyn 4 years ago to northern westchester (Huntersville in Yorktown). We love it. We decided that if we were leaving the city we wanted to feel like we left it, so we bought an old farmhouse on a quiet lane. But one of the nice things up here is that there are so many choices--villages, country, farmhouses, tudors, mid-century modern, you name it. The schools are great. Everyone we know is happy with the schools. As for the people, our community is very Democratic and quite liberal. The people are mostly creative professionals, many recent refugees from Brooklyn. There is lots of arts and culture, and a number of great restaurants. The trip into Manhattan is 40 minutes on the weekends, about what it took us from Brooklyn, so we still take advantage of the cultural choices there. I can honestly say that though I grew up in NYC, I don't miss living there at all.
I think most of the anti-burb comments are about southern westchester, which can be very cookie-cutter, or the eastern burbs, which can be quite stuffy. But people who toss off the burbs as cold and inhuman and conservative have never been to my part of it.
Posted by: expat at April 23, 2007 7:20 PM
"That's not really Bob Marvin, is it?" Yes 7:16. it REALLY is me. I may be diplomatic when discussing the merits of various brownstone neighborhoods, but I have nothing but contempt for the suburbs. Yes, parts of Westchester are beautiful. There are even a FEW nice places in NASSAU county, of all places(i.e. Sea Cliff) BUT they're all OUT OF TOWN!
I admit that my remarks were a bit snide, but not exactly hostile. However the original poster's question was VERY irritating. He posted on a site devoted to "An unhealthy obsession with historic Brooklyn brownstones and the neighborhoods and lifestyles they define" and, it seemed to me, expected us to practically BEG him to please stay.
I doubt that many readers of this site give a rat's a** if he stays in Brooklyn or not. If he can ask such a question, he just doesn't get it.
Rant over--I'll go back to being diplomatic in future posts
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 23, 2007 8:03 PM
Expat, we have looked in your area, and we love it! I agree that people are talking about a very different part of Westchester. I could never live in Bronxville or Scarsdale or any of those places either.
OP--you'll never get an open-minded response on this site. The fact is that lots of poeple who like living in Brooklyn are choosing to leave rather than spend gobs of money to live in a neighborhood they don't really like. The key is to spend lots of time in different areas and to fin the one that works for you. There is a world of choices out there!
Posted by: Going at April 23, 2007 8:11 PM
Yeah, I'm thinking of leaving too. What addicts us to living in NYC is that we get used to having millions of problems, so when we go somewhere else, we get bored because we don't have as many problems to deal with.
I'm serious. It's not the "culture" or "community" that we love. It's the everyday annoyances like dealing with the subway, fixing our old houses, dealing with random jerks on the sidewalks, etc. It's not that we like these annoyances, it's that we're so used to them that when things calm down (ie. when we visit a friend in Santa Barbara) we get bored out of our minds because we have nothing to complain about or fix!
I'd rather live somewhere peaceful and beautiful, I've been living in NYC so long I can't. Get my drift?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 23, 2007 9:26 PM
I know exactly what you mean, 9:26. But if you buy an old house in the country, you'll still be fixing. And there are plenty of people to complain about up here. Best of both worlds!
Posted by: Anonymous at April 24, 2007 9:01 AM
I don't think OP is really that concerned about money. If you can afford $1.7 mil, and the first alternative you consider is Westchester, what you really need to focus on is what you actually want. Is it lower cost of living or more status for the money? There's nothing wrong with being honest with yourself.
Do you have great space in a great Brooklyn nabe but feel insecure because your family or people you work with or your social circle all have big suburban spreads? I would say, do what YOU want to do, but, for a lot of people, impressing other people IS what they want to do. People on this board will be impressed with a certain type of house on a specific block in a brownstone nabe. Other people will never be impressed in Brooklyn, never mind how GREAT it is.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 24, 2007 10:03 AM
OP again - some of the posters here are just total jackasses (especially Bob Marvin). I was not looking for anyone to "beg" me to stay in B'lyn (thats a moronic comment if I ever saw one). I asked the question on this website which is devoted to Brooklyn for that very reason. Who better to enlighten me as to what is so great about living here that it is worth paying a premium (re size and cost). All the comments to the effect of "if you don't know what is so great about living here, then just leave" are clearly not helpful. Like I said, I do enjoy living here. But, I must be missing something since I don't see why it is worth spending over $2M for a brownstone (which would likely need work even at that price point) when you could buy a large, old house with fantastic architectual in Westchester with virtually the same commute time to midtown. So, I was simply looking for the readers here (people who love Brooklyn) to tell me why they love it so much.
In all of the posts above, I think I read only one thing about what makes the city great. Specifically, the person who said "My big problem w/Westchester is that once you're home, there's no going out. No good restaurants, no delivery except pizza and maybe (if you're lucky) Chinese food. And if you don't have kids you're completely isolated." That is something I understand and agree with.
Is there really not another reason worth staying in B'lyn? (And for what it is worth, 1600 SF is fine for a couple, but we are planning on having children and would obviously like more space when that happens in the not too distant future.)
Posted by: Anonymous at April 24, 2007 10:32 AM
As a Westchesterite, let me respond to "My big problem w/Westchester is that once you're home, there's no going out. No good restaurants, no delivery except pizza and maybe (if you're lucky) Chinese food. And if you don't have kids you're completely isolated."
There are in fact a lot of good restaurants. The last few years have seen a huge number of new restaurants in my area. We now have a number of excellent pan asian, thai, japanese, and nouvelle restaurants. The best by far is the new restaurant at the Stone Barns, which is 5 star. Check out a Westchester Zaggat guide and you'll be surprised. There are also a large number of new gourmet places with excellent take-out. As for delivery, a number of local places do have free delivery. There are at least 8 local cafes and restaurants with live music most nights and on weekends.
On the isolated without kids comment, I totally agree. We moved here with kids and made lots of friends right away. Our community has a great Association that has 3 potlucks every year and a board that meets monthly. There are certainly ways to meet people without having kids. But I wouldn't want to have moved here without them.
My lifestyle certainly is not for everyone. But many of the sterotypes people throw out about the burbs are out of date.
Posted by: Expat at April 24, 2007 12:22 PM
OP, come on, you know the answer.
Brooklyn is hip, fun, diverse, and cool.
Westchester is the opposite.
Life's not all about getting a better deal.
Good luck in the burbs, because that's where you're definitely headed!
Posted by: Anonymous at April 24, 2007 2:35 PM
I really am now stopping, so this is my last defense of where I live. Having lived in Brooklyn for decades and now living in northern westchester I have to say that I find it to be as hip and fun as Brooklyn. Every weekend we go to the local coffee house and listen to live music, then we walk down to the riverside park and there is always a diverse group of kids in the playground. In spring and summer there is a farmer's market every Saturday and often there is a concert or performance in one of the parks. If we don't go to a museum, then we hike in the woods. For Earth Day one of the local parks had an "unnatural treasure hunt" and the kids had to find things that don't belong, then in another park there was live music.
The point being while it isn't NYC, there is lots to do all the time. As for diversity, there is tremendous ethnic and economic diversity, through far far less racial diversity.
Posted by: Expat at April 24, 2007 2:57 PM
To the OP - don't throw out the baby with the bath water! Remember what I said about the private schools/public schools and kids/tax differential - you seemed to be headed down the $$ and cents path - so, while you don't have kids today, be mindful of that for when you do have the little ones! The City does present a tremendous array of educational outlets for kids whatever their talents (we got high schooler, middle schooler and pre schoolers in our house - don't ask how that happened, but all by the same two folks!) - so we know about the differing aptitudes, desires and capabilities. We got single sex schools, coed schools, and new age charter schools goin' on in our household across the 4 of them. And we got high $$ private as well as low $$ religious schools in the mix across the four (enough of a matrix for you!) All that to say, and don't mean to be too personal, but I doubt that we could have found that nice an array of choices up in the burbs, unless the kids were going to be puttin' in some serious commuting time btw schools - either that, or we'd have hired our own livery service - and from what I hear, the livery cabs are just not as plentiful out in the burbs. But I meant this in all good sense - do go with your heart - not your pocketbook - beacuse you nver know what you end up with (I know of friends who headed north w/out kids, and were looking to have a bunch of them to fill up their rambling home and backyard, and sadly enough ended up w/ far fewer than they wanted. Now they are isolated, not as integrated into the community (as others have said for couples w/out kids) and not as stimulated - but they have a helluva tme commuting for all of the culture stuff they left from here in the city - I don't take pleasure in that aspect (I really wanted them to have the little ones), but hey you never know....but if you "bank" on it happening and you make all these changes...WOW, you might be in a world of hurt as to why you did that to yourselves....
Posted by: wingo947 at April 24, 2007 3:47 PM
Actually this debate could have been ended long ago. If the two of you think 1600 s.f. is "fine" but will want more space when you have kids then you should head to the suburbs, where you will find much more room for your dollar. In theory some of the posters on this board own signficantly more than 1600 square feet of living space, but for the rest of us, that's a huge fricking living space - one that could easily accomodate at least two kids. If that feels cramped to you then you're not someone who should be living in the city - and trust me, that's not a value judgement. No matter what the other pros to living in the city are, you're never going to be happy living here if you feel cramped.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 24, 2007 5:21 PM
The only pro-Brooklyn thing i disagree with is the schools options. We're in a district with lousy schools and I have been completely unable to get our kids into another school. It has gotten virutally impossible in the last 2 years to get kids into out-of-district schools. I tried and tried and tried, but we ending up sending them to private school. (And I'm not a pro-burb person at all, but I do know that the burbs have many high-end private schools and low-end catholic schools too.)
Posted by: Anonymous at April 24, 2007 5:54 PM
Some of you are really so childish! I certainly agree that some suburbs are death, but I have numerous friends who have moved to various suburbs (Maplewood, Croton, Yorktown Heights, Katonah, Tarrytown...) who are very cool, hip, fun, interesting, and creative people. They all seem quite happy there. They have friends. They go out. Their kids are smart and cute and happy. They visit me, I visit them. I can't imagine why some of you feel the need to diss every suburb or an entire county! That is just pathetic.
Posted by: annoyed at April 24, 2007 6:03 PM
I'll tell you why,6:03. It's very simple. I for one would not be caught dead in the suburbs (or, to be more accurate, to be caught in the suburbs would be akin to death.) It's not rational. It's not susceptible to discussion. It just is. I'm such a city person that I moved from SF to here because I thought Sf was too toy-like a city. I like the crowds, the noise, the dirt even, the uncertainity, the suprises and the joy of a large city. No suburb could come even close to being that.
So when OP asks a question to which there is, really, no answer unless he himself figures it out, of course he's going to get snotty remarks.
Posted by: cmu at April 24, 2007 6:16 PM
Cmu, the fact that you are a true-blue urbanite does not excuse you for being an obnoxious a-hole about an entire lifestyle. The sad fact is that almost no one said why they like the city--all they did was make dumb comments such as "to be caught in the suburbs would be akin to death" which don't tell anyone anything. The only posters who actaully gave any details were the pro-suburbanites. They made a very good argument. Reading these posts, I would say that the burbs are a lot more interesting and fun that I had thought, and that most Brooklynites are jerks. Is that the message you wanted to send?
Posted by: annoyed at April 24, 2007 6:33 PM
OP,
You have indeed missed something--many things, actually, not the least being that you posted your question on the wrong board. This is the first time I've felt honored tob e called a "total Jackass"
Sorry I'm such a New York chauvanist, but I have little patience for those who don't realize that NYC in general, and Brooklyn,in particular, is the center of the known universe. Go already! :-)
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 24, 2007 6:36 PM
Great things about Brooklyn:
--a divine museum--love that first Saturday party
--a sublime botanic garden (I could go every day)
--a sweet zoo (shout out to the sea lions)
--a park with enough playgrounds to entertain your kids for years
--a carousel
--a superb public library system (write to your city councilman reminding him/her it can always use more $$$)
--Memorial Day concert in Greenwood Cemetery
--the beach at Coney Island just a subway away, or, by car, the huge beach at Riis
--The Cyclones (is there a better way to spend a summer evening?)
--oh, and the aquarium
--restaurants (aka people watching) on Smith Street
--walking down 7th Avenue and up 5th
--Puppetworks
--The transit museum (if you're ever on jury duty, take your lunch break here)
--summer concert series in Prospect Park
--Did you know there's a 4th of July parade? A halloween "parade"? A Norwegian parade? Irish-American parades? And, the biggest of all, the Carnival?
--short subway ride to Manhattan, and all it has to offer
I could go on, but what's great about brownstone Brooklyn is how much of this is affordable and walkable. It's not a theoretical "Oh, we should try that someday." It's all so accessible and easy to do. There's a premium on space here because, holy smokes, look what you get--all that stuff I said, plus your taxes include free public education (in large parts of Brooklyn, it is excellent), your police and fire and garbage pick-up--for a fraction of what you pay in the burbs. You don't need a car--there's no greener living than city living in that and other respects. Plus you and your kids meet people from all over the world and all over the economic spectrum. The suburbs are nice, but so different. I read all these people talking about what their little towns offer, but, baby, it can't compare. Brooklyn is the world.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 1:52 AM
Having re-read my post thouroughly, I would like OP to examine why he feels it necessary to use ad hominem attacks as he does. I stated my personal opinion, sufficiently hedged with saying it's not rational. Have you heard of gut feel?
I could ask you in return: why do you want validation about city life from us? Would it really make you change your mind? In plenty of such discussions with friends (who obviously I know well and can relate to better than to a stranger,) there's never been much of a meeting of the minds. The decision has been made, and all the talking is just that. Both sides know exactly what they like and dislike about their environments.
And your statement about how the suburbanites make their case well is just as useful as if I'd say of them, "Lady, you protest too much."
Posted by: cmu at April 25, 2007 9:14 AM
OP here again - CMU, I never responded to you. I am not "annoyed at 6:33".
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 2:05 PM
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