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April 25, 2007
Use of Sidewalk
I have a neighbor that likes to use the sidewalk in front of my house in Bed Stuy. He and friends in the summer set up chairs in front of my house under my shady tree and he chains a bike to the parking sign in front of my house. To my complaints, he says that I do not own the sidewalk. What are my legal rights here? I am responsible for keeping the sidewalk clear and safe. How do you deal with such "bad" neighbors?
Comments
Move
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 5:22 PM
You called 311 about it? You would have to have a valid quality of life complaint such as littering or noise.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 5:34 PM
I agree, MOVE this is Brooklyn.. not some Mormon Town in Utah. People have been sitting under trees in Brooklyn for a 100 years. We don't need you telling us to move along as if you have more of a right to our streets than we do.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 5:37 PM
These guys are loitering in front of your house. I'm not sure what the law is on this but I would find out. It might be a good time to walk dow to your local police department and find out what your rights are. If the law is on your side ( and I tink it is ) have the cops talk to these guys since they don't listen to you.
Posted by: Rick at April 25, 2007 5:39 PM
If someone is loitering there is nothing you can do unless they are making a certain amount of noise. The same goes for children playing in front of your house ,and people who wanna sit in the shade.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 5:47 PM
Ignore commenters 1 & 3. Assholes.
Tell your neighbor to plant their own tree. And until then, shove off. 311, 311, 311.
Our neighbor had the same issue. He owns a house and ajacent lot next to us. When we first moved in, people would set up an entire freakin bbq in front of the lot, which was an active parking zone, not an abandoned lot by the way. So he told them to move along. And they did. Across the street in front of the school. And all lived happily ever after.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 5:58 PM
Get there earlier and set your own chairs up and sit there. Or put a tree gaurd around the tree and garden inside the pit. Assert your presence.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 5:59 PM
I don't think comments 1 and 3 are "assholes."
I think you buy into a neighborhood as it is and that the asshole is the one who pressures people, calls the cops, etc, for a whole lot of nothin'. It is a public sidewalk, and it is totally fascist to act like you own it... especially the parking sign!!! So what if your neighbor locks his bike up to "your" parking sign?
I have locked up countless bikes to countless neighbors' signs... but then again I am a nice white girl, ahem.
If you don't like it, I like the commenter who suggested sit there first. Otherwise, live with it or move.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 6:09 PM
Funny how you don't own a sidewalk, but if somebody trips on it, they can sue you! Can you make friends with the guy? This might not be practical for your situation since the dude would have to do it himself, but it's possible to write to the city to get a tree planted in front of your home. It takes a while, but FYI for you/other people who might have an empty space out front.
Posted by: grrryphon at April 25, 2007 6:23 PM
The sidewalk is public space, you don't own it. Those people are not doing anything wrong, as long as they don't make excessive noise or get drunk. You might not realize it, but they probably make your block safer by being out there all the time.
Posted by: anonymous at April 25, 2007 6:25 PM
Since when can people camp out on sidewalks? This is news to me. 311 is a wonderful thing -- not just for complaining, but for getting information. What really is the law on this? Also, something which I think is a good thing to do is to introduce yourself in person to the police down at the station house. Ask them how they approach this kind of situation. I think it would be annoying to have my house be a social club...are they noisy? What is it that bothers you the most? The crowd, the noise, the lack of privacy? CAN you talk to the guy?
As for the idiots who say move, the hell with them. I love that....people who romanticize slum life. You pay a big price for a piece of property and you can't enjoy it?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 7:01 PM
This is cracking me up. I'm going to start getting together with some of my friends (say 10) and their lawnchairs and start camping out a various locations around the City. I'll start in the UES off of 5th, move to around BWay at 72nd.... My final stop will be in front of AMX downtown. People can't just set up chairs anywhere they please. There are also rules about how many people can publically assembly. Don't know how many people you're talking about here but I've seen the police try to arrest groups of about 6 on bicycles near Union Square. I agree with the above post about quietly asserting yourself. Make it more attractive to you and less attractive to them.
Posted by: Lee at April 25, 2007 7:13 PM
It is a class thing. I rent a double garage. The landlord expects that I maintain the sidewalk in front, snow shovel, sweep up ect. So all last summer on the week ends a bunch of families would set up a tiny block party out in front. I am not even sure they live on the block! So every Monday I have to go and clean up after them like I was changing their diapers or something. Some things they have done. Dumped hot charcoals in a plastic garbage can that later burst into flames. Spray painted a target zone on the garage door for their kids batting practice. Leave the fire hydrant running full force... they opened it.. and then they even lost the caps for it. Sprayed silly string into my pad locks. Urinated on the neighbors fence. They even started to store their picnic supplies out front until next week. So why would someone who lives 10 minutes away from the park even enjoy doing this? LOW CLASS!
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 8:36 PM
That kind of stuff is totally different than just sitting and chatting. That's bad.
What I read in the OP is that they are hanging out, and that the "bad neighbors" deigned to use the OP's personal parking sign as a bike rack--the horrors!
This does not sound like a crime to me. It sounds like something you either get over or deal with quietly by asserting your own presence.
I would just assume that since these guys are always in front of my house, they must be there because they want to be my friend. I would join their group. Ha!
Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 8:55 PM
Wow, all I can see in the previous comments is a lot of extremes. I don't really think the OP wants to make an enemy of their neighbor, and what they are doing doesn't sound as extreme as barbecuing... lol. I live on a fairly heavily loitered corner in Clinton Hill. We have a lot of guys who like to lean on our fence and the cars parked in front of our house. You know what usually does the trick? We try to join them. All my husband and I have to do is take a beer to our stoop and sit there for a few minutes, and all of the loiterers leave. If we try to make conversation, it happens even faster. It's funny how our midwestern kindness works to scare others away! but that might just be my block...
Posted by: rj at April 25, 2007 11:48 PM
Open your window slightly and play some opera or even better "Chant". This clears a crowd in no time.
If all fails bring out the Gamelan records.
Good luck..... or you could just talk to the guy.
Posted by: voets at April 25, 2007 11:58 PM
Open your window slightly and play some opera or even better "Chant". This clears a crowd in no time.
If all fails bring out the Gamelan records.
Good luck..... or you could just talk to the guy.
Posted by: voets at April 25, 2007 11:58 PM
Nah, opera or chant would lul them to sleep, especially after the occassional 40. Blast some slayer or metallica. Shit, if that doesn't work try the trap door or razor wire technique
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 9:14 AM
Original poster never said they “owned” the sidewalk! Obliviously, inquired because they did not understand and were looking for help not sarcasm! Yes, you buy into a neighborhood -- the thing I did was to visit day and night in the summer to see what kind of neighbors I had -- but this issue is more about courteous and respect “hello” and not owning the sidewalk. Seems we don’t think this is important anymore! I have had similar problems, the occasional tie up of a bike, etc. (there is a parking sign between my neighbor and my property) is fine, I rather have that than people, but I have had to ask some young men on the block, who decided they would stand in front of my house (with a barking pit bull) and have a loud conversation. at 7:00 in the morning to move on. My thing is to always approach it as a courteous issue, not “you’re on my property.” It also helps when it’s a group effort --one of my neighbors also is diligent in asking people to move on when they have stood in front of our homes late night. But then, of course, there are some who could care less about respecting others and that sounds like the situation you are in. And I am sure its probably a noise issue as well. There is no one answer that fits all. You can call 311, but again if the person is unwilling now, who knows what calling will do? Do you have a block association that could help (some members probaly have lived on the block awhile and may personally know your neighbor, at least give you an idea of what kind of person you are dealing with). Reach out to your local representative’s office or the local development corporation, if they have any advise. I wish you well, believe you mean, you are not alone.
Posted by: BedStyliving at April 26, 2007 11:32 AM
We had similar problem with people sitting on our stoop, talking trash about people and cursing and smoking and leaving takeout food on the sidewalk/stairs. I very sweetly swept the sidewalk and front stoop and took the lids off of the stinky trash cans. It smelled so bad they all left. Hope something gives you some peace.
Also all of the sudden I currently have a non-english speaking old lady hanging her daily laundry including underwear outside the FRONT of her house. I believe she is a new renter next door. Any legitimate and constructive recommendations?
Posted by: sarah at April 26, 2007 1:49 PM
Wow, BedStyliving hit the nail right on the head.
You make me amend my take on this, BSL. I was one of the people saying that you buy into a neighborhood. I still believe this, and I still think that the OP caring about who locks bikes to "his" parking sign is over the top.
But you are right--you get what you ask for, and it's important to ask for ordinary respectful treatment from your neighbors.
I like stoop-sitters and such because they are doing a lot to make the neighborhood safe just by being there. And on the first nice day of spring, I can understand an hour of loud music on the street after work. I like living in a city and will make concessions of my personal space sometimes because of it.
But I see how relentless music and loud conversation could become an issue of my neighbors not understanding that other people live here, too.
Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2007 6:14 PM
"I'm going to start getting together with some of my friends (say 10) and their lawnchairs and start camping out a various locations around the City."
Yeah, until you camp in front of some wealthy or well-connected guy and before you know it you'd be busted for loitering. The fact is that it all boils down to selective enforcement. Cops don't have time for bullshit calls and this one qualifies cause the guy is your neighbor. Yes, they CANNOT camp in that manner in front of your house but getting someone to come out on it? Good luck. UNLLESS it's a disturbance of course.
Make friends with the guy. Offer him alternatives, cut a deal, make him an offer he can't resist.
Posted by: desk sgt. at April 26, 2007 11:45 PM
I love what RJ suggested, trying to hang out with them until they leave. Hilarious. Put on the dorkiest white-people outfits you can find. Like maybe stonewashed jeans that come up to your ribcage, and a tshirt saying Fargo North Dakota.
Someone mentioned taking the lids off the smelly trash cans - that's what I was going to suggest. Find a way to make it stinky in front of your house.
But in general, I agree it's not a bad thing to have neighbors who sit outside all the time. They do deter crime, and other things. We had a fire in our co-op building foyer once and our co-op neighbor's idiot nanny didn't bother to tell anybody in the building about it. It was the Puerto Rican ladies who sit on the stoop all day long next door who rang all the buzzers and warned us. (I know, I know, there should be a fire alarm in the foyer.)
Posted by: Anonymous at April 27, 2007 1:17 PM
First be reasonable. Here is a last resort idea- Take some kitty litter or something else disgusting, and dump it right there,in front of them while they are sitting there. When he complains, say 'You don't own the sidewalk,either."
Posted by: anon at April 27, 2007 4:32 PM
Anon 4:32pm Make sure you wear white when doing so, easier to find the stab wounds that way.
Posted by: anon at April 27, 2007 4:57 PM
Plant flowers in boxes in front of your home.... go sit outside more frequently... sit on the stoop... stay friendly
and pleasant.... politely ask if your neighbors could move slightly so that you could wash down your stoop, water your flowers etc., water the
tree...
Above all be respectful... your neighbors have been there longer than you have and perhaps your house sat vacant for awhile and their presence was previously bothering no one.
I had the same issues for awhile but all worked out peacefully and respectfully all the way around.
Calling the cops or filing reports just incite stuff you really don't want to deal with!
Posted by: bren at April 29, 2007 9:02 PM
6:14 has got to be kidding..
you make it sound like these "stoopers" are out there drinking wine and eating cheese...while watching the "block"...
When in fact these type of stoopers are drinking , talking, being rude and downright disrespectul to the neighborhood as a whole..
Personally, for stoopers I would have a gate, keep it closed(not locked)..
For the "chair-tree" people the best advice I have seen is build a potter and small fence around the tree...
It is your tree..trust me...the same way the sidewalk is yours to plow in the snow..the same way sanitation will ticket you for any and all garbage directly in front of your house(your fault or not)..
My issue comes with those who move into these bedstuy upcoming type areas and expect to change the long held mentalities of those previosuly there..this takes time..not that changing is necessary but someitmes enlightenment for those who dont know any better and have ZERO respect for other peoples property...
Good luck...
Posted by: Hah! at June 23, 2007 2:47 PM
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