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February 26, 2007
Anyone use or know about 'Thermostatic radiator valves'?
Hi Everyone, our co-op (4 floors, 8 apts) has 3 steam radiators in each apt. The problem is that the apts on the first floor tend to not get as warm as the upper apartments since the thermostat is on the 2nd floor, heat rises, and the basement cold air comes up to the apts. We are trying to figure out how to get the 1st floor apts warmer without overheating the upper apartments since those are already warm. We are discussing using these 'thermostatic valves' on the radiators in the apartments that are already warm so they can turn off when it gets warm there while the lower apartments continue to get heat. I have some questions:
1. Does anyone have any experience with these things?
2. Would we also have to raise the thermostat in addition to installing these?
3. Where can we buy them cheaply in NY?
4. Anything else you can tell me about these, or any other ideas to fix our situation?
Thanks for your help!
Comments
Danfoss valves...yeah they are good for helping keep apts from overheating....they work. Installed it was 330 each...not cheap for installation and valves...but we used a legal plumber...so you might get it chaper from a handyman ..
btw...we lived in a coop...that got too much heat.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 26, 2007 10:56 PM
Thanks for the info, I am in one of the apts that does not get warm enough, so these would be installed in the other apts. I am wondering if we would also need to raise the thermostat (and therefore heating costs), or does the heat that stops going to the radiators with these valves end up going back into our place?
Posted by: Anonymous at February 26, 2007 11:09 PM
There is *probably* no need to move the thermostat. By the way, are you using steam or hot water to heat the building? What type of radiators? Have you been advised that TRVs are the way to go?
Posted by: Master Plvmber at February 27, 2007 6:59 AM
good to finally hear some prices for these. i always wondered how these things actually work. are they battery-powered? if i were to get a hold of some could i install them myself (assuming i have the faculty)?
Posted by: JL at February 27, 2007 10:33 AM
i was under the impression that they were rather easy to install, you basically unscrew the steam valve and screw in the TRV. the main difference between the valves is that the TRV has a dial on it that will let you set a temperature. you just need to use teflon tape on the threads and be super careful to not cross or strip the threads in the radiator. and, of course, make sure to turn the thermostat down so you don't get blasted in the face with steam.
i don't think that they require batteries. it think it is a plastic valve that operates through expansion/contraction when in contact with the steam.
Posted by: benno at February 27, 2007 10:54 AM
No batteries. Non-electric.
"basically unscrew the steam valve and screw in the TRV"
Sounds easy, doesn't it?
Only so when installing on a one-pipe steam radiator. The two-pipe steam or hot water varieties are much more involved.
Posted by: Master Plvmber at February 27, 2007 11:05 AM
Would it be enough to install these in the apts that are getting too much heat, so that the apts that are cold get more? Or would we still have to raise the thermostat to get more heat to the cold apts?
Thanks
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 12:15 PM
Heat Timer sells adjustable air valves ($25 each) that basically do the same thing. You can adjust the opening smaller for less heat or open it larger for more heat. They're also quiet and don't spit water.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 2:18 PM
Sure, the thermostat would have to be raised a little, of course it should. The upper floors should also agree to crack a window or two inside their units if it gets too hot, to make the temps more comfortable for the floors below. Teamwork. It might raise heat costs a little but it's either that or invest in zoned heating and a whole new system throughout the building. Which option can your building more easily afford?
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 5:04 PM
You can buy danfoss valves on line. Not too hard to install. They work okay, not like a thermostat, but better than nothing I think. The best thing to do is to figure out how many btus your room needs, then calculate how many btus your radiator is throwing off and then get the right sized radiator. I think the radiator sizing is really the key. We bought a book that helps you identify the btu output for all (really) radiators ever made. What we are now looking for is a simple way to calculate btu needs in each room. Why is it so easy to figure it out for cooling, but not for heating I wonder? There are only professional programs that will do this for you to help you size a boiler from what I've found. If you've got any more info. anybody please post on here. Thanks.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 8:30 PM
After rereading the original post, I see that this is a steam heating system and while I absolutely hate those Heat Timer adjustable air vents, I have to agree that a simple balancing is all the building needs.
Smaller air vents on the overheated rooms and venting the risers and main where necessary will set the system straight for good.
Forget about TRVs.
IMHO, the beauty of a steam system is its lack of moving parts. Installing TRVs would be a bit of an overly aggressive approach to a simple, common problem.
Posted by: Master Plvmber at February 27, 2007 9:24 PM
The www.heatinghelp.com website has a link to free heatloss calculation software from Slantfin (they mail you a CD for free). You can do a room by room or a whole house calculation. I did our heatloss for the entire house and learnt that our boiler was easily twice the required size even on the coldest day of the year. They also allow you to select a boiler based on your heatloss calculation (Slantfin boiler of course, but they have some nifty ones).
Posted by: Yeshwant at February 28, 2007 11:35 AM
Steam systems are a beautiful thing. Certainly not the "relic" that most people make them out to be. I believe that unfamiliarity with the systems breeds contempt, distrust and fear. Howver, on a really cold day steam beats hot water hands down.
Anyway, before installing TRVs yourself (which would most likely be unnecessary in this case) you might want to learn more about them. There is more to these valves than just screwing them in (even on a one pipe system). Want to know more? I can always be reached at heat@moltenmechanical.com.
Posted by: BoilerMan at February 28, 2007 4:45 PM
Also, don't overlook insulating windows and doors. Even the tiniest draft makes a dramatic difference in temperature in a room, on a very cold day. We had a small draft in our basement and it made the room absolutely freezing, just that one little draft we had to put our hands right up near the window, to even know it was there. Do everything you're considering, but also do the most you can do on your coldest floors in the building, to insulate.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 28, 2007 5:39 PM
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