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December 30, 2006
Permits and fines
If I was caught doing renovations without a permit, what kind of fines am i looking at? has this happened to anyone?
Comments
My realtor told me most of the back-decks on Brooklyn houses are illegal. Including the one off the back of the house we just bought. Of course the sellers didn't bother to make it legal before we bought the house, even though they received a summons about it. And our attorney told us it would cost something like $5,000 to pay for a permit for the back deck. I don't know if that's the kind of fine you're looking at, but that's the amount of money one pays the city for a tiny little back-deck permit. Which of course is why none of the homeowners ever pay for the permit. Maybe if NYC wasn't so insanely expensive for permits, more people would do things legally.
Posted by: Anonymous at December 30, 2006 2:57 AM
I got a permit & filed with the DOB on my deck. It seemed rather silly for a small project but I feared that someone may report me and I may have to do the deck all over and pay a fine. I was concern that my home insurance would not cover me too if something were to happen. I think if you're doing any kind of addition or structural change you should file for yur own protection & safety.
Posted by: Rick at December 30, 2006 7:21 AM
I got away with renovating 2 houses, no permits. If you're doing exterior work, such as a deck or extension, it's probably a good idea to get a permit. One our first home, we didn't have money to legalize an extension we put in and only did so when we were selling the house. That wasn't fun. Also, if you're doing interior work w/o permits, be careful having dumpsters out front and don't piss your neighbors off.
Posted by: Anonymous at December 30, 2006 8:57 AM
If the deck is not built to code, no amount of
money will make it legal, unless you make
neccessary changes. There is a difference
between a deck not built to code, and
one that's not filed. The actual cost of
filing, etc, is very small.. I think the
prices you were throwing around is for
hiring an expiditor, etc.
Typically, if there is a wood material within
three feet of your neighbor, it's illegal.
And most decks are not illegal, but probably
a lot aren't filed.
Posted by: OE at December 30, 2006 8:59 AM
a permit costs a couple hundred bucks for a job like this, no way it's $5000. However, you will also have to pay an architect/engineer to draw up the plans to get them approved. As someone else mentioned, if the existing deck is not to code it will cost money to make the changes.
So for your existing deck it could cost a few thousand to legalize it but if it is done right with permits at the beginning it is more like a few hundred bucks.
Posted by: Anonymous at December 30, 2006 9:41 AM
Help! I'm a bit confused here: I thought that there was a difference between a permit (for doing work) and filing (to maintain C of O). I thought that you needed a permit whenever you do work -- even if it doesn't need to be filed because, for instance, it is just repairs.
Posted by: Anonymous at December 30, 2006 11:30 AM
You had better not follow any advice here. Use an architect and file the permits or suffer the consequences. The statement that "no one" files in New York is on the face of it obviously untrue.
Posted by: Anonymous at December 30, 2006 12:18 PM
I'm the one who said "no one files" and I agree people should always get permits. I'm just repeating what our very experienced Brooklyn real estate attorney told us she had seen herself, in working with people who buy and sell homes in Brooklyn. I think what it comes down to is there's a difference between the old-school Brooklyn homeowner who doesn't get permits and cuts corners, and the new Brooklyn homeowner who tends to do better quality and more legal work on their homes. Our deck is new but was built illegally because it was built by flippers looking to make a buck. It's well-constructed but it stinks they didn't bother to get permits.
Posted by: Anonymous at December 30, 2006 1:54 PM
Why would you state that no one files if it is not true?
Posted by: Anonymous at December 30, 2006 3:17 PM
It really depends on the neighborhood and your relationship with your neighbors. If your neighbors are the type to report you, you might have a problem (although the cost of the fines seem less expensive than the cost of the permits, architects, etc..). If you have a good relationship with your neighbors and they dont mind keeping mum, you really shouldnt have an issue.
Posted by: Anonymous at December 30, 2006 8:25 PM
The OP never mentioned a deck. Why is everyone assuming we're talking about an exterior reno? I'm the one who usually doesn't file. Yes, I'm old school, but we certainly do everything to code, we don't cut corners and we do a quality job, thank you very much.
Posted by: Anonymous at December 30, 2006 10:42 PM
so back to the orig question: if you get caught in
the act, I believe you would get a stop-work order, plus a fine.
Posted by: OE at December 31, 2006 8:59 AM
How do you know that you do everything to code if you do not file.
Example:
Until a few years ago Pressure treated wood with arsenic was permitted in New York. Because it can cause cancer it is not permitted now. Wood with a copper-salt preservative is.
Also if you do not file for a deck or any alteration on your building your home insurance may not accept any claims you file.
Posted by: Robert proffitt at December 31, 2006 9:01 AM
I love that! Someone does everything to code but does not file? What an absurd statement!
Posted by: Anonymous at December 31, 2006 2:25 PM
Why is it so hard to believe that someone would want to do everything correctly, but not file it with the DOB? I know plenty of homeowners in the field (architects and engineers) who do this. I'm talking interior renos. If it's exterior, we know we must file.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 1, 2007 4:13 PM
OP: An architect that I trust just told me that the DOB has considerably raised the amount of money it can fine you for working without a permit. And they will most probably issue a stop-work order as well. You should contact an expeditor or an architect and/or a licensed contractor before you start any work on your property again. They can also issue multiple fines I believe, but you should double check that. I can't remember the number the architect told me, but it was shockingly expensive and way higher than it used to be. I have a strong feeling that once word of this change gets out most everybody will be filing the correct permits.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 1, 2007 8:20 PM
don't count on it... the DOB still only
enforces when they hear about something.
I'm sure a lot of people will continue to do
things like quietly reconfiguring their
kitchens, especially if they are in detached
single family homes. Also, in immigrant
communities (most of southern brooklyn),
people aren't going around calling city officials.
Posted by: OE at January 1, 2007 9:09 PM
The DOB reads Brownstoner.
They have increased the number of inspectors and they have inspectors who patrol at night and on the weekend.
Look for the little white cars with the blue lettering.
If you do everything to code why not file and obtain the permits.
Posted by: Robert proffitt at January 1, 2007 9:49 PM
Nowadays every nosy neighbor out there is dialing 311 to report any workers they see doing construction. We have had this happen to us so many times it's ridiculous. And in multiple properties, so it's not just big jobs or certain neighborhoods. If you are doing everything right you have no interest in risking the job getting completed, or fines, and it's better to file. Believe me, I used to blow this stuff off too. But 311 is a huge pain. Every neighbor is potentially a whistleblower. And we've even had subcontractors who are jerks threaten to report us too because we were unhappy with their work. Nice, huh? Construction is a pain in this town!
Posted by: Anonymous at January 2, 2007 9:59 AM
To 9:59 - I think this is in response to many,many abuses by flippers, greedy landlords, etc. There are many threads about illegal, abusive activities on brownstoner.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 2, 2007 10:52 AM
I don't think the DOB does anything even if a neighbor calls 311. They try to obtain access and if nobody's home on two occasions, they write 'Case Resolved' on the DOB website and move on. This includes an illegal parlor floor wooden deck within 2 feet of the property line with a high privacy fence to boot. I would love to know if anyone knows about what happens when these properties with illegal extensions and decks and conversions try to sell.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 2, 2007 3:09 PM
Look up the Dept. of Buildings web site. There is a brochure on installing pools, decks and porches wherein it states that the maximum penalty for working without a permit is $2,500.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 5, 2007 3:59 PM
Check the DOB web site.
One of their brochures (installing Pools, Decks and Porches) states that the maximum penalty for working without a permit is $2,500.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 5, 2007 4:03 PM
So what about interior renovations that are complete? I guess I already made a mistake by calling them and scheduling an appointment, but how do they know what I did and what was existing from before I bought the building? We bought almost 10 years ago. We've done some things, but with no CofO, how would they know? Am I innocent until proven guilty? What about ripping down crumbling plaster and putting drywall in it's place? Do I need a permit for that?
Posted by: Anonymous at February 4, 2007 8:49 PM
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