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August 31, 2006
Question for landlords
I would like people's opinion of this situation.
My husband has been a renter from an owner/landlord for 9 years (in Boerem Hill,). He has had a very good relationship with the landlords (they came to our wedding, even) always paid rent on time and taken good care of the premises.
Over all these years the lease period ended in September, except for last year when the landlord delayed in giving a new lease until January. Now my husband and I are going to move out, and we were surprised that this landlord said he would hold us to this lease. I find this quite odd, and am under the impression that normally under such circumstances ( 9 years, good tenant) a landlord would allow 30 days notice.
In addition, the landlord has told us he is going to raise the rent for the new tenant, by at least $400 a month. So he will profit by our moving. (the area has boomed in the past 9 years and has now become desireable and pricey) But he wants us to find him a new tenant or else he expects us to continue to pay the rent. We need to move soon.
Any opinions on this, esp. from landlords? I am hoping to convince the landlord to just let us out of the lease. It is hard enought to find our own place without having to find new tenants (though it will be easy to rent- really great place) But the landlord needs to do some repairs and paint, doesn't even know when it will be available to rent after we leave.
Any suggestions on how to approach this landlord in the spirit of fairness?
Comments
I'm a landlord and can't imagine ending such a positive relationship on that note. Seems really unfortunate.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 31, 2006 3:33 PM
Seems like an idiot of a landlord.
Just explain to him that if he would insist on his legal rights, you will insist on yours, and one of the rights that you have under NY law is to sublet the property (with his consent, which can not be unreasonably withheld). If you were to sublet, he would not be entitled to a rent increase and I suspect that if the property is $400 under market value, it would probably take you 2 seconds to find a tenant at what you are currently paying. I think that once he hears of how he would lose the $400, he will return your security deposit and wish you well in your future endevours.
Posted by: anon at August 31, 2006 3:52 PM
I'm a landlord and my tenants always move when they need to. I understand this. Very strange your landlord would do this to you. I'm sorry to hear this, it really makes you feel sour towards him and makes you question the kind of person you thought he was after all. Right? What you can do is talk to your landlord and tell him that you will show the apartment and help him find a replacement tenant. If you simply ran an ad on Craigs list I would imagine you would get great response since the market is hot. I was able to rent my last empty apartment this way in just a couple days from a handful of nice people with good credit. Good Luck!
Posted by: Rick at August 31, 2006 4:07 PM
your landlord is definetely acting like a real jerk. maybe he is really sad to see you go and it is coming out in this strange antagosnitic way. I agree with the above. put an ad on craig's list and you will rent this apartment no problem.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 31, 2006 4:12 PM
Odd considering the relationship you describe. Is the landlord in bad financial shape or something?
Posted by: Anonymous at August 31, 2006 4:13 PM
Great idea annon 3:52!
And, maybe you could profit off of his apartment if you sublet?
Would love to see your landlord's face if you played hardball too!
Keep us informed!
Posted by: Rick at August 31, 2006 4:15 PM
Did he at least give you a good wedding gift?
Posted by: Yente at August 31, 2006 4:51 PM
While the relationship you have with your landlord sounds good, why would you expect him/her to not hold you to a legal contract that you entered into willingly? Personally, as a landlord I never sign leases that end in Janmuary, since it is such a slow time of year (i,.e. few people looking to rent places) while the Fall is busy (I assume you want to move out now). The fact you are paying $400 below market means he owes you absolutely nothing more than he has been giving you already. Sounds like something else is going on.....
Posted by: Anonymous at August 31, 2006 5:10 PM
Yes many of us would not act like your landlord, that is very true. All those details you gave about being a model tenant for 9 years I'm sure feel like it should be worth something. The problem is he does not feel that way at all! In fact it looks like he wants to take advantage of your need to move! Your lease is binding no matter how you looked at the relationship. So, you have only a few options. Find him a tenant, sublet your apartment, or give him notice and let him take you to court. I wouldn't think someone would want to take you to small claims over this but it is possible considering your landlord is acting a little nuts.
Posted by: Rick at August 31, 2006 6:20 PM
I completely disagree with the previous posts. Your husband signed the lease of free will, no one forced him to. If the landlord gave him 30 days notice to move out, how would he feel? A lease goes both ways. Why sign a document you have no intention of abiding by? A lease is not a formality, go to housing court one of these days and see what I mean.
As for subletting, most leases prohibit this specifically. It is not all a right to sublet, quite the opposite. It is a breach of contract.
And the fact that the landlord is doubling the rent is irrelevant. Your husband signed a lease. He is an adult. Did he not read the lease? Did it have an exemption for doubling the rent? Take responsibility for your actions.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 31, 2006 8:55 PM
Your landlord should absolutely let you move, especially since he delayed giving you a lease for several months. As most of us know, rental situations in brownstone buildings are really about maintaining good landlord-tenant relationships, and your landlord should honor your long history as a good tenant. Howveer, if he insists, I agree that you should sublet at a profit, and I bet he will then jump at the chance to let you out of the lease.
Posted by: anon at September 1, 2006 9:55 AM
Practical advice (that ignores your relationship with the landlord):
Assuming that you've kept the apartment in the same condition as when you moved in (other than normal wear and tear), break the lease by living out the security deposit and dare him to sue you.
If the rental rates have increased as you say, he will have suffered no financial damages (other than the cost to prepare the apartment for a new tenant -- and, if he hasn't painted the apartment in a few years, then he can't even argue that you're breaking the lease is really costing him anything).
Posted by: Anonymous at September 1, 2006 10:15 AM
The 10:15 post makes no sense. Monthly rent is a convenience to the tenant, a lease actually spells out that the entire year of rent is due to the landlord with rare exceptions. The landlord can and should sue your husband for breaking the lease. The fact that you don't think it's "fair," you invited him to your wedding, your husband lived there nine years, the apartment needs work, the lease signing was late, and the fact he is raising the rent are completely irrelevant, and just self justification on your part to break a legal contract.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 1, 2006 11:32 AM
Outcome: We spoke with the landlord last night. He hoped we would stay on and offered some incentives, such as making some needed repairs and not giving a big rent increase. But he said if we break the lease we will forfeit our security deposit. He will not rent it right away because the apartment needs a lot of work (has not been painted in 10 years except the room I painted) including major work on the outside wall and roof.
(he has been told this work is urgent- water damage in the walls- we told him to go ahead with it, even though we will have to move out of our room)
He said he never heard of a landlord allowing someone to break a lease with 30 or 45 days notice. His landlords (over 20 years ago) always made him pay through the nose to break a lease, as did his wife's prior landlord when she left a luxury building in Yonkers. So I was unable to give him a reality check that his business practice as an owner/occupier is really not typical in today's world of a hot rental market in this area. He said this is his business and he believes in contracts. He also said the rent will go up between $400 and $800 (which he could get if he fixes it up)
I would expect this from Donald Trump, but not from such a landlord.
So we will honor the lease and either lose the security (which hurts) or may try to sublease for the 3 months (OK w LL). We do want a good reference as we will be renting for awhile. The landlord would like us to find him a good new tenant . I resent doing his work for him under the circumstances. But if we find a tenant to sublease, they can then negociate a new lease with the landlord (who is now planning to require 2 months security)
The good thing- it makes me feel better to be leaving an otherwise great apartment in a great neighborhood, that we are now priced out of. We hope to own someday, but as middle income people wanting to live in NY that reality is looking more and more difficult.
Posted by: anon at September 1, 2006 11:36 AM
My two cents: there is what is legal and what is fair and decent. The landlord is being a jerk.
Posted by: anonymous at September 1, 2006 11:44 AM
You are lucky. Your lease obligates you pay the full year of rent. Forfeiting security deposit is very generous on the part of your landlord.
Breaking a lease with 30 days notice is absurd. The fact that your landlord believes a lease is a legal contract and you do not is because your landlord lives in the real world and you live in a fantasy land.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 1, 2006 12:42 PM
You should take a look at the state law NY RPL Sec 226-b, which governs the rights to sublease or assign. Since it doesn't sound like you intend to return to the apartment, you are probably looking to assign the lease and not sublet. The tenant has a statutory right to assign subject unless the owner reasonably withholds consent. (And contrary to some of the anonymous comments yesterday, any language in the lease contrary to the statute is null and void.)
If the owner unreasonably withholds consent, the LL is required to release the tenant within 30 days. Obviously, the nub is whether the consent is being withheld unreasonably or not.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 1, 2006 1:01 PM
Yah, 8.55PM is off of their rocker.
You signed a contract but people break contracts all the time. Unless the contract contains a liquidated damages clause (unlikely in your case) then the other party is entitled to the amount that they're actually damages minus any efforts they've made to avoid a loss.
In English, it shakes out thusly:
1) If you move out before the lease expires, you're on the hook for your remaining rent.
2) Your landlord must make reasonable efforts to find a new tenant at your current rent, or lower if it becomes apparent it is necessary to find someone (although it sounds unlikely).
3) Any rents that the landlord collects serves as an offset to any rent which you would continue to owe.
4) Your security deposit is not a, "break the lease" deposit. It is money to repair damage above and beyond normal wear and tear. http://www.dhcr.state.ny.us/ora/pubs/html/orafac9.htm Since your husband has been there for 9 years, you'd expect a lot of normal wear and tear.
If your landlord doesn't agree with the above, tell him to consult his lawyer (or find one if he doesn't).
Posted by: Anonymous at September 1, 2006 1:42 PM
great points all around but i still can't beleive
a landlord would want a tenant to find the next tenant! This is insane to me! Especially if I as the landlord live in this house too. Why would you trust a tenant you're 'feuding' with to find someone else?
Posted by: modern in cg at September 1, 2006 3:05 PM
Well this landlord has offered to break the lease if we forfeit the deposit, so whatever the law is, it does not look like this will come into play. And he does trust us to find a good new tenant (my husband had to get the landlords approval on all his roommates over the years and always found good people) And we could do this if we choose do. This is not a typical situation in any way.
There has been a good relationship and it is in this context that I find the landlords rigidity about the contract to be just mean spirited. After 10 years of never having to spend any time or money on getting a new tenant or sprucing up the place (and it was beat up when my husband moved in) and then just neglecting to draw up a new lease on time (so we were without any contract then) now he's sticking it to us, when he'll actually benefit financially by us moving on. I am puzzled and just did not expect this. He acts like we're inconveniencing him, when in 3 months if we leave then, he would have to rent it himself.
There's the law and then there's just what is fair. The lease should have ended in September, and my husband didn't even realize this when he signed it. He just trusted this landlord, who has been a friendly wonderful person to know. So I don't see why he is so intent to keep us until January (a bad time to move- so less people looking) just because we signed the damn contract. But we will never figure this one out.
Posted by: anon at September 1, 2006 4:46 PM
It appears you are the sort of person who will forever go through life not understanding why the law is not fair to you. I pity you.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 1, 2006 5:34 PM
How is 30 days "fair" to the landlord?
Oh, I guess you just care about what is "fair" to you! Silly me.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 1, 2006 5:45 PM
30 days notice seems "fair" 5:45, if the landlord is eager to do needed repairs and eager to get a higher-paying tenant in the unit. This landlord sounds clueless and scatterbrained.
Posted by: kittyn at September 1, 2006 7:26 PM
Could it be your landlord is looking to find someone without having to leave the apartment empty at any time to "spruce it up" for the new tenant? By having you find the new tenant, he is hoping they will take it as is. He then saves the money to paint/repair it, and saves the money from the time the apartment would be empty to do those repairs. As a landlord myself, I find that rather petty, regardless of the fact you had a lease, since you did give notice at a very good time of year to re-let the place, and were long-term good tenants. It might be different if you had given notice in December for a lease ending in June, but in this case, while he may have the law on his side, I find his behavior unnecessary. The Anonymous posters giving you a hard time in this particular situation are simply trying to pick a fight, instead of dealing with reality in the landlord-tenant situation in your instance.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 4, 2006 12:17 PM
Your Security Deposit is held against damages to the space and you can't use it lieu of rent, don't know why people are advocating this.
And if you have such a "good relationship" with your LL, then why are you trying to bail on your lease, that is not what good tenants do.
And BTW: don't sign a legal document that you have not read and/or understand.
Posted by: Arsenic and Old Lace at September 7, 2006 12:36 PM
Sept. 4th got it right. It's just a case of your landlord wanting to eat his cake and have it, too.
He wants to renovate the apartment and get a higher rent.
He doesn't want to stop collecting rent checks while this is going on.
And Arsenic, someone who has been a steady tenant for 9 years, who takes good care of the property, and always paid on time? That's a good tenant. Never mind leaving 9 months into a 12-month lease.
Certainly, the landlord is entitled to the damages to which he is owed but as I laid out a week ago, it won't be that much. Because any rents that he collects from someone else serves as an offset. I.e. you can't say that you owe 12 months of rent but if you leave after 9, I can do with the space what I want. Uh uh. Then the space is still rented. There's a big difference between a breach of contract and being owed damages.
Posted by: Mateo at September 8, 2006 1:40 PM
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