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July 1, 2006
Worst neighbors ever...what do i do?
OK, so my neighbor is still in the midst of a 2+ year renovation. We've remained very friendly despite the noise and the dust and grime that coat our windows. Now, they have moved back in and this morning we recieved a letter from their lawyer instructing us to remove our 2 window A/C units (one is on the second floor!!!!) because they own the "air rights" to that space.
When i got the letter i stopped myself from going over there fuming mad to consider what the best approach would be to deal with this. Any advice from the sages of brownstoner???
Comments
Bad manners...a letter from their lawyer? They can't even drop you a personal note? I would tell them you will remove the AC in October.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 1, 2006 1:25 PM
This does not give one a warm and fuzzy feeling does it? I commend you on not going over there all steamed up, that was good. You need to just make sure they are not right -- sounds nuts to me -- but just check out if there is any truth to what they are saying. Then armed with correct facts, take the high road and attempt to speak to them. You don't have to be friends, but the last thing you need in life is to have a Hatfields and McCoy situation. It is the last thing they need too, but they just don't know it.
Posted by: Donatella at July 1, 2006 3:15 PM
What kind of building is this? Sounds insane. Utterly insane. Sorry!!
Posted by: Anonymous at July 1, 2006 3:29 PM
i am the original poster...the back of our brownstone looks out at their backyard (we have a side yard). It does seem like the law is on their side, but i just can't believe that anyone would trade a good relationship with their neighbors for the removal of a second floor a/c unit....and these are not industrial a/c units, you can BARELY HEAR THEM.
Posted by: anon at July 1, 2006 5:40 PM
flabergasting
Posted by: Anonymous at July 1, 2006 6:52 PM
why don't you just keep the AC's there until the weather cools down. if their lawyer has to go to court to get injunctive relief (a court order telling you to take the AC's out), they'll have to pay this lawyer alot of money . . . they may not even win. let them pay through the nose for their silly legal rights.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 1, 2006 7:37 PM
Try to speak to them to figure out what their issues are. Is it aesthetics, or the constant drip-drip of the water runoff. Both things can be addressed. Don't get as irrational as they are. Stay optimistic, there's bound to be a solution that can make the situation work for both of you. Who knows, maybe they aren't freaks? And if they are total freaks than just back away as quickly as you can and say as little as possible. And then suggest that they agree to arbitration or something not so nutty as dealing with attorneys over such a minor matter.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 1, 2006 8:21 PM
Oh also just realized that the portable kind of air conditioners won't venture outside of your window sill at all and could be used for this purpose. Maybe this is a cheaper alternative for them to consider helping you out with rather than you both hiring attorneys.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 1, 2006 8:23 PM
check where you stand legally, if not in your favor pull out the ac unit. then blast your radio from morning to night (kidding).
a 2 yr reno, wow, permits and all? hmmm, there must be something they missed. Give 311 a call.
Posted by: anon at July 2, 2006 7:56 AM
I am with the 7:56. Find something that would have pissed off the old lady across the street and file a report with the DOB through 311. My favorite is if it is a multi family, look to see how they obtained a mortgage- lower rate for a single family. All you have to do is let the insurance company know...
But, it is time that you upgrade to Mr Slim's anyway.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 2, 2006 8:25 AM
also, check property shark, see if it is a legal multi-family. Maybe they are going to rent part of it illegally, i.e. they live in the duplex and are renting 2 of four floors but it is listing as a 2-family, in which case they have to have a c of o for a 3-family. Reporting that to the DOB will cost them an arm and a leg and will incur violations.
Stupid of them to start a fight with their neighbors. It is always the neighbors who report to the city what someone is doing illegally.
Posted by: cc at July 2, 2006 10:43 AM
Here is the potential quagmire. Is the window in dispute an original window or was it a "recent addition" Windows on property lines are not kosher. Does the A/C extend out into their property? A/C below 3 tons or 36000 BTU's don't need a permit and are not regulated by the DoB> You can get an ECB violation for noise if it is operating at high levels. Can you move the unit to another window? I just want to say live and let live but sending a neighbor a letter from a lawyer as a first solution is pretty, well unneighborly. I would try and take the high road and stay calm. Remember that letter cost them at least $200. in legal fees unless lawyers are moving in and in that case you really do have the worst neighbors in the world. Remind them the next time you see contractors working past 6pm or before 7am or on a weekend that you may look the other way instead of calling 311. Using this forum as a means to publicly shame them seems to be a possible solution. Just make sure you are right first.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 2, 2006 1:40 PM
Since I'm not a lawyer I'm commenting WAY beyond my area of expertise, but IIRC I think that having an encrouchment, without complaint from the property owner, on a neighboring property for a period of time (the length of which I don't know) gives you an easement to continue that use. Perhaps youf protruding ACs are OK. Any lawyers (or others knowledgable about this matter) care to comment?
Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 2, 2006 2:40 PM
I am the original poster and here are the details. Any legal opinion would be welcome (although i know i should consult my own lawyer). Our place is the old carriage house to a corner brownstowne. It was converted from a barn to a residence about 20 years ago. the back of our carriage house (with many windows) faces the yard of a brownstone on the street perpindicular to our carriage house. The A/C unit has been in the window for many years and extends into their "airspace" by about 3-4 inches past the windowframe. We would just move them and be done with it, but there are no windows on the wall of our bedroom that face our yard (french doors instead). Is there any truth to the easement idea proposed by Bob Marvin? They did have workers working during weekends...is this really a violation? Thanks for all the advice.
Posted by: anon at July 2, 2006 3:40 PM
Sort of digressing, but...portable a/c units are terrible. They just don't work very well. Check out this months Consumer Reports for more validation. Window a/c's do the job but by far, the Mitsubishi Mr. Slim ductless is the way to go.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 2, 2006 5:41 PM
I agree with the idea you let you neighbors go and get an injunction and really let them racket up their legal bill, while making sure any work not permitted gets that 311 phone call. In the end if you want to comply with this neighbor consider simply pulling your A/C units to the line of your facade.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 2, 2006 6:18 PM
I wonder if this is the start of some other building plans your neighbor has. Perhaps your protruding ACs are in the way for their new project?
Posted by: Rick at July 3, 2006 8:51 AM
Send us a photo of these jerks and we'll post it on the front page. Maybe a little public humiliation will teach them some manners!
Posted by: Brownstoner at July 3, 2006 9:21 AM
NYC construction building permits allow work between 7am and 6pm weekdays (No Holidays as well) There is an exception in that they can get a afterhours permit which is seperate than the other permit and is good for a very specific time and day) You can call 311 at 6:01pm if you wish if they are still working. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LEAVE YOUR NAME OR PHONE NUMBER As someone who does many DIY projects with power tools I can testify to the need to have understanding neighbors. If you plan on living in Brooklyn and living happily ever after you better understand ''the do on to others rule" can work both ways. I think it might be time to break out the boom box tuned to the Christian Family Radio station....crank Focus on the Family up to "11" until they get the message.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 3, 2006 2:07 PM
thanks for all the advice...the boom box response seems the most appropriate, but i fear it would be for naught.I forgot to tell all of you the most infuriating part...They Are NEVER In Their Garden
Posted by: original poster at July 3, 2006 4:26 PM
Do you keep your a/c's in the window all year round? If so, how long have they been there? Since the neighbor's purchased the property? You might have an argument that the neighbor's acquiesence to the presence of the a/c's for X-period of time means they have waived any right to complain. The strength of the argument is based on how long they knew about the a/c's and did not complain. Under general property law theory of adverse possession, open and notorious possession of real property (not sure of its application to air rights)for a period of years (can't remember how many) gives the adverse possessor (in this case you) rights over the property owner.
As a matter of general principle I would leave the a/c in and make them file a complaint before you take out the a/c's.
Posted by: Keep at July 4, 2006 11:37 AM
I just noticed an article about "adverse possession" in last Sunday's NY Times RE section that seems relevent:
It seems that the time period is ten years, possibly too long to be of any use to the original poster.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 5, 2006 12:00 PM
i agree with 11:37, keep those A/C's in.
what kind of coward sends a letter from his lawyer with this type of request?
seriously, what could happen if you don't back down? let them spin their wheels some more with their lawyer, but make them come and look you in the eye while they make their pompous request.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 5, 2006 1:52 PM
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