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July 27, 2006
HELP - entrance way!
Please help - I imagine this problem has come up before but I don't think it has ever been addressed in the forum. We have a 4 story building and intend to keep the bottom duplex for ourselves and rent out the top 2 floors. We are having trouble configuring the entranceway on the parlor level to allow access to both the duplex or to the staircase that leads to the rentals (we are keeping a basement entrance as well but want two ways of egress). Right now the parlor level has the typical vestibule with an entrance door and an inner door which opens to the main stairway or to the parlor floor. We want a separate entrance but the hallway next to the stairs is too narrow to install a doorframe/door. So, do we (1) build an angled wall from the bottom of the staircase to the parlor wall or (2) take down the inner vestibule door and install 2 doors (one leading to the common staircase and the other into the duplex)? Because the vestibule right now is too narrow to install 2 doors, we would have to move the parlor wall 1 foot in to accomodate 2 doors. This question has stumped 2 designers and I'm afraid either option isn't aesthetically pleasing. Other options are greatly welcomed.
Comments
I'm having trouble understanding your problem - we have a narrow brownstone - 17" and there was plenty of room in the hallway (i.e. space between inner door and foot of stairs) to have one door.
Posted by: brownstoneproud at July 27, 2006 10:20 AM
I'm having trouble understanding your problem - we have a narrow brownstone - 17" and there was plenty of room in the hallway (i.e. space between inner door and foot of stairs) to have one door.
Posted by: brownstoneproud at July 27, 2006 10:21 AM
I'm wondering that, too. We did something similar. Isn't there currently a door to the apartment from the common hallway on the parlor floor? In our case (and in many brownstones), you walk into the common hallway, the stairs are in front of you and the door to the parlor floor apt. is immediately on the left. Thus the new wall starts behind the parlor apt. door and that becomes the main entrance to the new duplex apt. What is your configuration now?
Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2006 10:51 AM
That's exactly our problem as well and our solution is to build a partition wall in the hallway next to the stairs going up with a door (need two exits on the floor) and then an angled wall that tracks the staircase so that inside the door is shut off from the public hallway. We haven't done it yet, but that's the plan. Truly inelegant and breaks up a really beautiful entryway and bannister, but you want to be able to walk from your bedroom to the kitchen downstairs in your underwear. I also like it because when someone richer than us buys it, then it is easily taken down.
I would be very interested if anyone has or has seen a better solution.
Posted by: elaine at July 27, 2006 10:54 AM
Original poster here. For the first 2 posters, FYI we want to do away with the double set of parlor doors and open the wall up to include the now existing hallway area as part of the duplex. The hallway next to the stairs will be enclosed as part of the apartment, rather than an open hallway visible to everyone. Hope this clears things up.
Posted by: original poster at July 27, 2006 11:04 AM
original poster: are you sure that the wall separating the parlor floor front room and hallway is not load bearing. If it is, moving it could be difficult.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2006 11:18 AM
from 10:51 poster -- I may still be misunderstanding you, or our doors are in a different place, but except for 5 feet, our hallway next to the stairs is enclosed by the common wall and our duplex is entirely private. It sounds like what elaine at 10:54 is talking about, except when done right, the entrance way is still rather nice for a duplex -- the contractor saved all the moldings which are part of the new wall -- and there are nice double doors as the entryway. The wall can also be easily removed for a triplex. I guess from what you are describing that you would incorporate that private hall to widen your parlor floor. We used the old common hallway to build a closet on the parlor floor. It's nice, since most parlor floors, if entirely open as living space as ours is, have no coat closet, but because it's part of what used to be the hallway, it doesn't take away from the open feel of the parlor floor. Don't know if this makes any sense to you, but hope it helps. I forgot to add that there's another opening area (formerly another doorway) that's right at the top of the landing of those now private stairs leading from basement to parlor floor. So that's how you get from parlor to basement floor inside your duplex if that wasn't already obvious.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2006 11:36 AM
I've got to say, I hope your place is already gutted of all detail if you plan on removing the double parlor doors to make your parlor floor a few feet wider.
The wall dividing the hall from the front parlor would likely be load bearing wall, and I think would be a shame to get rid of those coveted double parlor doors. Why not use the double parlor doors as the entrance to your duplex and wall off the small hallway next to the stairs, but place that wall just past the parlor floor double doors so that you can access the flight of stairs down to the garden level from your parlor floor. I've seen that done many times and it works well. It could also provide you with the extra space you are looking for if you knock down just the portion of the wall dividing the parlor floor and the hall behind the new wall.
So, without drawing it, it would look like this as you walk in:
Walk up stoop through front door(s), then through interior vestibule doors. Stairs to upper two apartments to your right in front of you (if the stoop is on the right side of your house). Double parlor doors to the left of you, left of the stairs. New wall facing you beginning just past the parlor doors all the way up to the ceiling. You could put a door in that new wall too if you like, though I don't think it would be necessary or too useful. If you enter the parlor floor of your duplex and stood behind the new wall, you could knock down the old parlor/hallway dividing wall could if structurally viable, making more space on your parlor floor.
If, upon entering the building, you walked up the stairway from the vestibule entry way, you'd have the exposed bannister for a few feet until you met the new wall running up to the ceiling. There would also be a wall from floor to celing just to the left of the bannister, closing off your parlor floor from the view of the stairs.
Plus, with such a design, if you ever sell, it is easier for someone to restore the old configuration, which might be a value added selling point...
Posted by: 1847 at July 27, 2006 12:25 PM
I think I misread some of the original poster's descriptions, sorry, but I still think the above proposal would work. I think the proposed options #1 and #2 both sound pretty unattractive, though #1 sounds better than #2 IMO if you had to do one of those.
Posted by: 1847 at July 27, 2006 12:31 PM
I did what 1847 suggests. Able to fit in a large double hung coat closet inside the duplex, to the right of the double door entrance and a tiny but wonderful half bath under the stairs. Very happy with the layout.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2006 12:38 PM
I'm poster at 11:36 and 10:51 and we have exactly what 1847 and anonymous at 12:38 describe. We don't have the half bath, but do have the coat closet to the right of the double door entrance.
It's hard for me to understand how your designer didn't come up with this since this is more or less how all the multistory brownstones with a bottom duplex are combined, at least those I have seen. Unless this is one of the options you are describing but is being misunderstood by us, or your double doors are somehow placed so that it is impossible to build the wall and keep the doors.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2006 12:54 PM
thanks to everyone that posted. I guess it is important to mention that our parlor doors are gone and there are just double French doors that open directly into the parlor floor (on the right, BTW). Our house used to be an SRO. I have seen the configuration you're all talking about...keep the double doors and wall off the hallway that comes after it. Lots of people use that small space as a half-bath. However, we don't really like the parlor door opening up directly into the living space...rather have a mudroom of sorts that leads to the living room. Since this is the case, the configuration is more complex.
Posted by: original poster at July 27, 2006 2:03 PM
We configured our lower duplex as LR/DR/KIT on the ground and bedroom on the parlor. We enter under the stoop to the living floor. The downside is that it would be nice, in theory, to enter our apartment up the stoop through the main doors. But the downside is what you are facing: figuring out an elegant way to have an entrance from the public parlor foyer, and there's really just no good way to do it. If you have to enter up the stoop, I'd go with the angled wall/door idea.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 27, 2006 5:00 PM
You have stumped two designers who have viewed the space and you expect to solve your problem by posting a one paragraph description on some web site?
Posted by: Anonymous at July 28, 2006 8:28 AM
Anonymous 8:28 am: Your comment is unnecessary. This post engendered many replies which means other brownstowner readers were happy to participate with their opinions. That's what this forum is all about.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 28, 2006 11:16 AM
I had the same situation. I decided to keep the original entrance (double over-sized parlor doors) and built the angled wall. My choice was based on the architectural detail. Salvage as much of the original detail as you can. If it has already been compromised go ahead and make the change where you will get the most sf available for you use. Be careful if you decide to go with the second option, more than likely that wall is a load bearing wall. Good Luck
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