Increasing ceiling height by digging down?
We are considering a brownstone in Park Slope that has a garden level floor with ceilings that are just too low. They are about 7 1/2 feet. The real estate agent told me that people often actually dig into the ground to extend the ceiling height, and she said that she did that on her…
We are considering a brownstone in Park Slope that has a garden level floor with ceilings that are just too low. They are about 7 1/2 feet. The real estate agent told me that people often actually dig into the ground to extend the ceiling height, and she said that she did that on her own place. She said that it would probably cost about $30k.
I have never heard of this being done. So my question is- is this commonly done with brownstones to extend the cieling height on the bottom floor? If so, is her estimate of $30k or so a reasonable one, or is it way off? (The space is 20×45 and we would actually need to do a full internal reconfiguation of the walls on that floor anyway so the impact to the rest of floor in terms of having to reconstruct it is not important to us. I’m just trying to understand whether it’s reasonable to assume that it can be done, and that it would cost roughly $30k.
Thank you!
Thanks all! We decided this was not a project worth undertaking. Will either deal with the 7.5ft ceilings or look elsewhere.
Brooklynnative- that is very good info about the grade in the front being used to determine whether it is inhabitable as a sleeping space. We will need to talk to an architect about that for sure. Interestingly, it is currently being rented out and 4 people sleep down there! So I don’t know whether the current owner is just out of compliance, or whether this is not a problem.
My folks did this with their house but it is not a brownstone.. they had to dig down and bc the house was so old the foundation was just bricks on dirt so they ended up digging under the foundation in 3-4 foot areas and backfilling with cement in order to keep the building stable….
Needless to say it took them about a year (they did it all themselves after work etc) turned out beautifully and went from 6.5′ to about 8.5’…
Next door neighbors with similar house just had it done by a contractor and had the basement renovated to add kitchen and bath and the whole project cost about 100k
Might be a little more complicated with an attached house and I would recommend an engineer… it is one thing for you to destroy your own house and another to have a connecting wall collapse btwn your house and your neighbors
People who do this cheaply are risking their building’s structural integrity, not to mention the neighbor’s house. It is plain dumb to do it without an engineer and permit.
Thanks for finding the article Zeebee!
This is the garden/basement floor of the owners unit in a multi-family dwelling. It is 3 stories, plus the garden/basement. The owners unit is the parlor floor plus the garden/basement level. The entire property (all 3 units) are currently being rented out by the current owner, and the duplex unit actually has all of the bedrooms on the garden/basement level. There are currently 4brs and a bath down there.
I found the article on the site about the dangers of improperly underpinning a foundation: http://bstoner.wpengine.com/brownstoner/archives/2007/09/overlooking_und.php
Unfortunately, the ceiling height of a garden floor is what it is – I don’t think I’ve ever been in an old brownstone or rowhouse with the garden floor height more than 7-1/2 or 8 feet, even in the grand homes that show up on the various Brooklyn house tours.
One thing I’m not clear on – is this the garden-floor unit in a co-op/condo, or will it be your owner’s unit in a multi-family dwelling? The reason I ask is that, even if there are no obstacles (mechanical, structural or otherwise) to your digging out below the garden level, a co-op or condo board might well deny you permission on the grounds that it’s too potentially disruptive and risky to the rest of the residents and to the integrity of the building itself.
Many thanks! This is starting to sound too daunting even just reading through the posts. Maybe it’s not a project for us. I did call a contractor about this and he quoted a price of $400 per linear foot for the job, including engineering drawings, going up to 2 feet in height, filing with the Department of Bureau & removal of
excavating material. That seems VERY expensive (around $88k if figuring the linear footage of the space).
Anyway, thanks for all of the info! And I’ll go and look for that article now- thanks for the heads up.
The article on digging was on the main page within the past couple of weeks and had a large graphic you can’t miss it if you search the site.
If you have an English basement, with a a low grade opening in the front, you may not even be able to legally convert it to a sleeping space. That’s what our architect told us when we considered digging down in our English basement. Apparently the city measures whether it’s a habitable space by the front of the building, where the floor is considerably lower than the surface level than in the back of the building. It’s crazy but that’s the way it work. I’d be very, very careful in figuring all this out before you make an offer. Unfortunately, you’ll need professional advice which will cost you $.
Almost ALL of these buidings have foundations that do not extend down beyond the concrete floor slab in the cellar or basement. If you dig down, you may risk undermining the foundation and placing you and your neighbors (who most likely share the side foundation walls with you) in grave danger.
Do not approach this lightly. Digging down can be done, but you may have to structurally underpin the existing foundation walls, which basically means adding poured concrete underneath them. This must be performed little by little (in 4′-0″ increments), and cannot be done by amateurs as it requires a specific procedure.
Get a structural engineer or architect to look at it.
sounds like an “english basement,” with rear opening at grade, and front mostly under sidewalk grade.
there’s no guarantee that you can dig down, as it depends on what’s under the floor. if there are pipes, old oil tanks, etc, there may be a limit on how far down you can dig. they’ll test this before they start digging. hopefully, you can go down a foot or two and get yourself the extra ceiling height.
i agree that this should be done by PROFESSIONALS, as there’s lots that could go wrong.
good luck.