Crown Heights Reno

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March 25, 2007

what's cookin'

the stove

i suppose it makes sense that the stove and the oven constitute by far my biggest dilemma...

background
since this is a 2 family, the house will have 2 kitchens,
the main kitchen on the parlor floor with a smaller one on the ground floor.

i cook a lot but mostly stove top
i do not make a large amount of roast meats
i have been known to do thanksgiving for 14
i don't bake that often now, but bread making is is an eventual goal
i don't microwave
i do (finally) want a broiler

main kitchen:
i definitely want 6 burners
i can either do a complete stove or a separate cook top & oven
since i will have an additional oven downstairs, i am only putting one in this kitchen

2nd kitchen:
there is an existing gas stove that, if it proves to be functional, i will keep
otherwise i will need to purchase a separate (inexpensive & small) cook top and a 2nd oven

questions
any feelings on separate vs. combined when it comes to the stove/oven?
what are the things you love/hate about your own set-up?
or
what would you do differently if you were starting from scratch?

brands:
i have been looking at the thermadors...
but what about viking or ge or ... ?

ovens:
gas vs electric?
what about dual?
is it the 21st century and i should have convection?

bonus question:
does anyone else covet the cobalt blue enameled interior of the wolf ovens?
lg has this with their complete stove, but it's only 4 burners
i know i am going to have at least one ridiculous splurge, and it will most likely be color related, but considering how often i really use the oven, even i am having a hard time going top of the line solely because of an interior finish
(nb. i did however go one model up on my trek (to get a purple fade) because i felt a red bike just wasn't "me". that was 15 years ago, i still have the bike and have replaced the fork with one that is a completely different color but i've never regretted that decision)

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Comments

OK ,YOUR BLOG SUCK'S

Posted by: aho at March 26, 2007 1:17 AM

@ aho
thank you
:D
i have finally "arrived" in renoblogdom

Posted by: ms. crown heights reno at March 26, 2007 7:06 AM

Stay away from the Jenn Air electric wall oven -- despite what Consumer Reports says. It's completely unreliable and after about 10 service visits (during my warranty) period, I've given up on it . . . My Jenn Air gas cook top is awesome. I have a colleague at work who made Jenn Air take back his electric oven -- it can take up to 40 minutes to reach a temp. setting and then it's not even the correct temp. Baking at an exact temperature is fruitless unless you keep adjusting the temperature with a store bought thermometer that I have to keep inside the oven.

If you get a separate oven, just be sure that it will fit into whatever cabinet you order for it. my husband had to build our cabinet from scratch to make our oven fit into our Lowe's cabinet.

Most serious cooks/chefs recommend an electric oven and a gas cook top. You have to get an electrician to make sure you have enough power for the electric oven . . .

Posted by: CH at March 26, 2007 9:57 AM

If you want a professional stainless range, skip Viking, Wolf and the other super-expensive ones, and go for Five Star -- looks just as great and works at least as well, and is a whole lot cheaper. By Googling, I found a 4-burner (the largest that will fit in my kitchen) that was a floor model at a fancy stove shop/cooking school in Massachusetts, borrowed a truck and went and got it -- no taxes, no delivery fee. It had been used only slightly, by the chefs at the cooking school, who told me they thought it was superior to Viking et al. I love it; it is the cornerstone of my busy kitchen. I paid $1900 but even list price was still lots cheaper than the fancy brands named above. Six burners also will be more of course. Good luck.

Also -- the chefs told me that if you really want a hot flame (which they do) you should go for open burners. Harder to clean, but better for cooking and guess what -- cheaper.

Posted by: Kingston at March 27, 2007 9:43 AM

You didn't ask about dishwashers, but here's my two cents on that subject: I HATE my Bosch dishwasher. It's pretty and totally quiet, but it leaves grit all over the dishes, no matter how much I clean the filter. I would never buy another one.

I have a friend who is in love with her Fisher & Paykel "dish drawer" dishwasher. It has two drawers for the dishes, which I guess is effectively two small dishwashers. She likes it because she can do half loads, which makes sense if you don't have a huge family. But if she has people over she can fill both drawers and do a whole load.

If I had a $ windfall, I would replace my Bosch with the F&P. But in the meantime I'll just keep handwashing the 30% of my dishes that come out dirty in every load.

Posted by: Kingston at March 27, 2007 9:50 AM

For my own renovation (and for a slim majority of my client's renovations) we prefer separating the cooktop (usually gas) from the oven. I like a wall oven that you don't have to bend down to use. I installed an electric, right hand hinged oven, and a steam oven above it.

For the cooktop surface, think about how you move pots and pans around: I like discrete burners, but my wife for instance prefers a field to slide things from one burner to the other. If you're looking for something really efficient that doesn't create a lot of extra heat in the kitchen consider an induction unit (also, the fastest way to heat, and more powerful than gas). Finally, under the cooktop then can be two large, open drawers: pots in one, lids in the other. Works great.

Don't forget that you'll need a substantial hood to vent those six burners.

For more specific advice on models, you might try gardenweb.com.

--an architect in Brooklyn

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2007 9:55 AM

Oh, I forgot the bonus question: yes, I also coveted the cobalt blue interior of Wolfs, but found something similar in another brand.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2007 10:12 AM

The Anonymouse architect in Brooklyn hits on the practical reason to separate the cooktop and oven that the majority of people seem to be missing lately. If you have a wall where you can install the oven at a comfortable height, then you've gained something by doing this. The other possible gain is that separate cooktops can be configured to occupy slightly less counter space if that is an issue. Otherwise, it seems silly to install separate components one over the other where a slide-in range would have done the job.

I bought a Wolf range in 1999. The repairman that visits the broiler and oven on a regular basis swears that the newer models are much more reliable and produced by a completely different company. But he disparages Viking.

Posted by: Debre at March 27, 2007 11:50 AM

You didn't ask, but I'd add that the Fisher and Paykel dish drawers (other brands of dish drawers are really F&P products as well) can be a little picky. I love the function of the 2 drawers almost as much as my husband hates the thing.

My first one had to be replaced after a few years. The new one also has a quirk, but I found assistance online so I can repair it without shelling out a few hundred bucks for service. This came after paying someone else to do it the first time and watching how he removed the drawers.

Posted by: Debre at March 27, 2007 12:12 PM

I love our now 7-year-old Jenn Air dual fuel stove. 4 gas burners on top (2 convert to a grill) + electric oven. The oven gives great results, it's easy to use and good looking too (marginally less attractive than a Viking but so much less expensive).

Posted by: NeoGrec at March 29, 2007 12:04 PM

I too covet the Wolk cobalt blue. But I am torn as I want a gas broiler. Viking seems to be the only high end mfgr with a gas wall oven. I have a thermador 6 burner dual fuel, 36inch range with one oven, so I DO have an electric oven for baking. But the gas broiler is an open question!

Posted by: Bob W at April 3, 2007 3:13 PM

After much research...the BEST pro-grade range I've found is Blue Star (former Garland). INSANE POWER (22K BTU burners), easy to clean, simple, and look great. Cheaper and higher quality then viking

Can get them at Gringer and Sons in NYC

Hope this helps

Posted by: Michael at April 4, 2007 10:35 PM

I discovered one practical reason to go gas for the stove/oven during the last blackout. I was still able to cook, even without lights and therefore was not consigned to peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

Seriously, I believe that the open flame is better for cooking and if you want a broiler, then gas is the best way to go.

Posted by: Oh Lord! at April 24, 2007 11:59 AM