A Red Hook Townhouse for $270,000? Yessiree Bob
It's hardly a Pierrepont Street mansion, but a house in Red Hook was recently snapped up in foreclosure for the cool price of $270,000, less than half of what the bank was into it for. According to ACRIS, the 2,100-square-foot vinyl sided property went into contract on November 16 and closed on January 29. The lien on the house had been $598,021, according to Property Shark. How big a deal this was is unclear though: The place looks like it could use some serious work and the house next door looks like it's about to fall down. Was this a good buy or not? GMAP
52 Comments
By fsrg on February 26, 2010 10:06 AM
By Butterfly on February 26, 2010 10:10 AM
that block just looks sad. i dont have a comment on whether it's a good deal or not.. im leaning toward no.
*rob*
By antidope on February 26, 2010 10:12 AM
game over, that has to be at least 60% off.
By Sparafucile on February 26, 2010 10:13 AM
The bank officer who approved a $598k loan on that vinyl-sided ghetto shithole shouldn't be trusted to make change for a five, much less to hand out mortgages.
By joeingowanus on February 26, 2010 10:14 AM
Was this a good buy or not?
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umm... fyi, there are no good deals in the entire tri-state area at the moment. unless you're one of those people who think that 15-20% off of the biggest asset bubble in american history is a good deal.
By antidope on February 26, 2010 10:15 AM
i guarantee you that fannie bought that mortgage.
call barney frank or andrew cuomo to complain.
By Architerrorist on February 26, 2010 10:20 AM
You couldn't pay me to live in Red Hook - so the answer is no.
By antidope on February 26, 2010 10:29 AM
if you look at the acris record, one thing jumps to your mind: FRAUD.
i'd live in redhook, but not in this particular spot. if i'm going to suffer the lack of transport, at least get on the waterfront.
By BK realestate veteran on February 26, 2010 10:32 AM
270 is what it is worth apparently those old wood frames are a nightmare
By antidope on February 26, 2010 10:35 AM
deed recorded at 950k in 2005.
man this could be the poster child for lax underwriting / fraud in nyc.
72% off.
By wine lover on February 26, 2010 10:44 AM
hmm
too negative - i wouldn't live in Red Hook either, but that's beside the point.
having once owned a house pretty much exactly like this with zero issues, not sure where the "wood frame" house is a nightmare comment comes in - they are fine - tons all over park slope in fact and seem to be ok.
it's only a couple of stories, so let's say closer to $200K for some fixin up. then you have a whole house around $500k well even if it was $600K - it's not bad. it's hard to find a decent 2 bed for that.
By mopar on February 26, 2010 10:45 AM
Bad deal because the buyer has to pay the lien. If the house was any good, flippers would have bought it before the auction process. Bet they tear it down and build a four-story "luxury" cinderblock.
By daveinbedstuy on February 26, 2010 10:45 AM
I think what fsrq said in the first post just about sums it up!!!!!!!!
By Minard Lafever on February 26, 2010 10:57 AM
In most towns and cities across the USA you could buy a pretty decent house for $270,000.
By Brownstones Half Off on February 26, 2010 11:01 AM
"good buy or not?"
Not. It was just a buy. This is what these brownstones are worth. Half off peak. This is a mark-to-market leak through a cracked preforeclosure dam. Hold on tight!
I hope we're not assuming the condition of the house and stability of the neighboring one from the photo alone! If so, how do we arrive at $500K rehab price? Sounds absurd, especially for a 3-story.
***Bid half off peak comps***
By Brownstones Half Off on February 26, 2010 11:07 AM
Oops! Read to fast. It's the vinyl house. I'm gonna get flamed for ASSuming it was the brick one on the right! Still...($500K reno?!)
***Bid half off peak comps***
By dirty_hipster on February 26, 2010 11:33 AM
Jeez - no love for Red Hook?
By Architerrorist on February 26, 2010 11:45 AM
I can see the hipster appeal, but no way would I want to raise a family here - certainly not for the prices these places were going for until very recently. And truthfully, I still wouldn't live in Red Hook if you handed me one of these houses on a silver platter. I just don't like Red Hook. Yes, I go to Fairway, the pool, Ikea now and then - but am always happy to leave.
By Combustiblegirl2 on February 26, 2010 11:48 AM
There's never any love for Red Hook on this site. There never seems to be even much of an informed opinion about the neighborhood. So no surprise there. This is a transitional block with good potential. And buying that house and fixing it up nicely as an investment to rent at the moment would be a smart idea. There's a branch of the NYPL on the corner and what you can barely make out next to the gray house that's so rundown is a really sweet little garden that's adjacent to it. I often fantasize about buying the gray house and fixing that one up.
By parkedslope on February 26, 2010 11:51 AM
Does anyone else find themselves touched by nostalgia each time they see the old graving dock & sugar silo are still on the satellite view of Google maps?
This is not a great location, but there's hardly much 'waterfront' residential in Red Hook, short of living above Fairway.
As for the possible reno costs, it's idiotic to throw out numbers like $500K with absolutely zero info to-go-on...
I know that BHO and others are convinced the 'mutant asset bubble' has a long way left to deflate, but I'm not convinced it's going to come down anywhere near what they'd like. I just don't see occupancy rates dropping low enough, nor do I expect all the government incentives that favor of ownership to suddenly disappear. As a result, I think the improvements we've seen in the last 20 years across Brooklyn [call it gentrification, if you wish] will endure - and so will a hefty percentage of real estate values.
If this house had gone for $27,000 - a real possibility 30 years ago - then I'd think you were onto something.
By Montrose Morris on February 26, 2010 11:53 AM
The house in question might not be a frame. It's configured exactly the same as the brick next door, down to windows and size of stairway. More than likely, someone "modernized" it in the 40's-50's, took all of the ornament off, and put on siding. Same with the other one. Someone with some vision could do wonders with this place.
By joeingowanus on February 26, 2010 11:55 AM
If this house had gone for $27,000 - a real possibility 30 years ago - then I'd think you were onto something.
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probably less than that, actually.
By Legion on February 26, 2010 12:09 PM
this type of sale is EXACTLY the solution to the entire
mortgage backed securities mess we are in.
Enough with the uncertainty.
Executive order to forclose on all the failing(non-producing) loans held by fanniemae/freddie mac.
Place loan portfolio into government managed auction/sales
entity.
Start selling homes to investors/owners who are properly qualified by new bank standards.
Another executive order prohibiting similar banking ploys with proper oversight.
Leave the capital gains alone.
Reduce taxes or at least leave the Bush tax cuts alone.
Watch the economy grow.
By mare on February 26, 2010 12:21 PM
The house is across the street from the PJs. RH doesn't get any love on Stoner because let's face, it's totally overrated. A handful of slumming trustfunders, hipsters, bitter bohemians and some self-appointed environmental justice types that are more Ayn Rand than Rachel Carson does not a neighborhood make. Everyone's a player, yet nobody gets anything meaningful done. They're fighting over liquor stores for pete's sake!!!
By mshook on February 26, 2010 12:43 PM
Or, we're out enjoying our beautiful neighborhood and all the great waterfront access. I don't have a car, and I love, love, LOVE living in Red Hook. No trust fund, not hip, slightly bitter... better stop there. Buffleheads, swingles, great sunsets, bike paths... just a few examples of the things you get when you live here.
By denton on February 26, 2010 12:59 PM
"This is a transitional block with good potential."
Rewrite:
If I don't get shot on the way home, in twenty years it might be worth what I paid.
By Pigeon on February 26, 2010 1:06 PM
Mshook,
What's a bufflehead?
What's a swingle?
By mare on February 26, 2010 1:11 PM
never said there weren't good things but like the young child in The Emperor's New Clothes, I don't buy the neighborhood hype or hubris the locals are constantly serving up. And I think Stoner showing some wise discretion by doing the same.
and where exactly is this mythical red book bike path? i've been hearing about for ten years. is it like Brigadoon- magically appearing for track bike riding, moleskine journal toting trendsetters on their way to a book reading at Sunny's?
The only two off-street bikes paths near RH are on Columbia Street - north of Degraw Street and south of Beard Street. There's also Erie Basin Park, but I thought all the locals boycotted Ikea.
By dittoburg on February 26, 2010 1:23 PM
which way is the block transitioning?
By dittoburg on February 26, 2010 1:23 PM
how far is this place from Steve's key lime pies?
By slopette on February 26, 2010 1:26 PM
A "bufflehead" is a kind of duck.
I'm going to guess that a "swingle" is one half of a swinging couple. A single swinger. Swingle?
By gemini10 on February 26, 2010 1:31 PM
Personally I really like Red Hook. The cafes/resteraunts/Fairway and the Pier are all great places to hang out at.
Am not so sure I would buy a place there because of the same fear I would have buying in Bed Stuy - I believe the nabe has peaked and now the prices are coming back to reality. Anyone that has bought in RH and plans to stay, I wish them all the luck - I just hope the nabe stays safe and viable.
By bxgrl on February 26, 2010 2:22 PM
I love Red Hook- I think its one of the more interesting neighborhoods. I think if you bought for RE value is probably crying right now, but I think it is still up and coming. I don't think Bed-Stuy has peaked- I do think many neighborhoods will slow down and scale back, but they ar still good places to live.
By Brownstones Half Off on February 26, 2010 2:35 PM
"I know that BHO and others are convinced the 'mutant asset bubble' has a long way left to deflate, but I'm not convinced it's going to come down anywhere near what they'd like. I just don't see occupancy rates dropping low enough, nor do I expect all the government incentives that favor of ownership to suddenly disappear. As a result, I think the improvements we've seen in the last 20 years across Brooklyn [call it gentrification, if you wish] will endure - and so will a hefty percentage of real estate values." - parkedslope @ 11:50
Your argument does not convince me at all (no such argument exists!). Occupancy can be absorbed by renting which is cheaper than a few years of buying and selling into and out of this long L-shaped bear market. Gov programs expire in April. The last 20 years of improvement were based on an inflated money supply which is now deflating. I won't speak on the "improvements" but the paper appreciation will continue to undo itself with impunity. Half off is an easy call given the 3x income (falling) and 10x annual rental (falling) fundamentals. This property fell in half. Stuyvesant Town in Manhattan fell in half. There are others. The median price can run but it can't hide. Another -37.5% to go from here.
"Executive order to forclose on all the failing(non-producing) loans held by fanniemae/freddie mac." - Legion
Dead center. This is key to a housing recovery. Eat losses and start over. Unfortunately, housing is and has been in the driver's seat of this economy. Everything else is ridin' shotgun. That's why it gets so much attention from Obama/FED.
***Bid half off peak comps***
By Brownstones Half Off on February 26, 2010 2:37 PM
By the way, I like Red Hook too. Fairway, the park, the Manhattan views. They need to restore those old ferry lines and send 'em to the 'hook. I heard they did something like this in LA or San Fran.
***Bid half off peak comps***
By parkedslope on February 26, 2010 3:08 PM
BHO - I appreciate what you're saying, but the real 'argument' I'll give you is quite straightforward:
Most Americans' biggest asset is their home. It is political suicide for anyone in government to allow so many to simply 'eat their losses.' That sounds fine on paper [Ayn Rand, anyone?], but the reality is quite messy and costly - not just in dollars, but in ruined lives, careers, etc.
If the government does eventually move to wind-down the bubble, it's more likely going to be through inflation. True, that's a lousy solution for many people, but again, the system is gamed in-favor of property owners - plain & simple.
By katiem633 on February 26, 2010 3:11 PM
This house is directly across the street from the redhook houses, there are about 4 houses on the block for sale and another couple that look abandoned......
I think that the house is one of the nicer houses on the block and might not need too much renovation- but the block is not nice at all......
I think that the owners could rent the first floor and potentially live with low monthly payments....but they would have to be willing to live there - I dont think that I would be willing to live on that block.
By mshook on February 26, 2010 3:16 PM
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! I finally measure up to The Mare's stereotypes, being the owner of at least one moleskin!
A swingle is a mini Steve's Key Lime pie dunked in dark chocolate, frozen, and eaten like a popsicle. Nuts.
By mshook on February 26, 2010 3:31 PM
PS, Ikea could come and take a big dump on my doorstep and I could not love them any less for the wonderful open waterfront space they have provided.
By Ppark on February 26, 2010 3:41 PM
$500k to make it livable? Only if what you mean by "livable" is a Dyker Heights McMansion. You could do it for $100k if you were smart. So yes, it is a good deal.
Those "most other places" in the US where you could get a pretty nice house for $270k are places you wouldn't want to live. Check the prices in any decent city on either coast--a nice house will run you half a mil.
By Combustiblegirl2 on February 26, 2010 4:41 PM
Mare, your statement just proves to me exactly how little some people on this site actually know about what the community is like here.
By mare on February 26, 2010 4:47 PM
Ms Hook,
Let me get this straight. Throughout this thread, folks are saying all kinds of disparaging remarks about what it's like to live near NYCHA residents and you don't call them on it. Well, I think my observations about RH's overwhelmingly white and privileged fringe dwellers are spot on. I just wish I wasn't right, but the neighborhood's zeitgeist is clear and a long term renter like me can't afford to buy a house.
By mare on February 26, 2010 5:15 PM
news flash Combustiblegirl2, I've lived in RH for over fifteen years so I guess that makes me part of the community, whether you like it or not.
However, unlike the stoner crowd and the majority of Brooklyn residents, I don't think the neighborhood is dangerous, too industrial or too ghetto. All I'm doing is rejecting the crazy groupthink so common amongst the Van Brunt Street crowd that RH must become to be the next DUMBO or SOHO. All the neighborhood rah rah in the world isn't gonna make that happen.
Also, I think you and Ms Hook have your panties in a twist because you fancy yourselves such neighborhood mavens and can't stand a dissenting, but well-formed opinion.
By jimmyoforange on February 26, 2010 9:56 PM
Here's one of the reasons Red Hook gets no love: Projects are right across the street. There is an all night "Spinning Window" store on the corner, which attracts about the most obvious drug dealing in Red Hook. There are at least four empty lots on this block accumulating trash. And there are at least two boarded up and abandoned buildings on the block - including the one next door.
So, yeah, it might be a good deal if you want to be a slum lord. Or if you think the projects are going to be razed in your lifetime. Or if Bruce Ratner is looking for a truly blighted block when Atlantic Yards is finally abandoned.
But as far as living there? No.
By mshook on February 27, 2010 7:13 AM
The Mare: I guess my hunch is correct, then. You were once invited to a party on Dikeman and spent the whole time standing alone in the kitchen. Or you went into Bait and Tackle and got their bullshit. I'm not going to argue with people who talk about Red Hook being unsafe, "fringe", or complain about the projects, because they clearly live in a different city from me. I have no problem with the projects, the very pleasant men who work in the "Spinning Window" store (seriously?), or the shape of my panties. I don't want to live in Dumbo, or anywhere else. I don't want Red Hook to change, and I do not live amongst these white folks you are so steamed about, nor do I let them bother me. The words "bitter" and "renter" are leaping ineluctably to mind right now.
By mare on February 27, 2010 10:04 AM
Ms. Hook,
Sorry Nancy Drew, but you're wrong.
Peace out.
By tina24hour on February 27, 2010 10:19 AM
I live in the neighborhood, and work in real estate. We're selling a house on the corner of Richards and Wolcott - the Lucky Gallery building. Directly across the street from the "spinning window" deli. It's $700,000. I love the building, the location, everything, yet I spend a lot of time talking tire-kickers out of coming to view it. Many people think they want to live in Red Hook because they shop at Fairway and went to hear bluegrass at Sunny's once. We discuss openly the limited public transportation, the generally humble housing stock, the fact that most of the buildings in the area have done battle with rot, or termites, or (more likely) both. Still they come.
I understand why - Red Hook is unlike any other neighborhood in New York. Some people actually want to live here. Some just think they do. And still others can't understand why anyone ever would (see above). That's just fine by me.
By KRISPY on February 27, 2010 2:06 PM
besides Sonny's and Fairway:
Jalopy, Ice House, Fort Defiance, Baked, the pool, Dry Dock, Il Barone, Kevin's, HomeMade, the Red Hook farm, Hope and Anchor, the Good Fork, etc. All a part of the RH panorama. All excellent establishments. The longer you live here the more there is to discover. For those who say they couldn't be paid to live in RH, who needs you anyway? Living in RH is about being part of a community (which yes, includes the public housing projects).
By joeingowanus on February 27, 2010 9:12 PM
If the government does eventually move to wind-down the bubble, it's more likely going to be through inflation.
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There may eventually be a dollar depreciation because of all of the debt we have as a country. But, other than that, there is probably no way that they can inflate their way out of this bubble considering that people have to actually have jobs to demand higher wages. You're giving the gov't WAAAAAAY to much credit here.
By hannible on February 27, 2010 10:31 PM
Well Credit is the only thing the government has left. But trust me things will get really interesting when "money printing" Ben Bernanke picks up interest rates. You will see people who could not refinance abandone ship so fast it will be nice to watch as a tire kicker but sad to see as an American.Greed made this country and greed is going to destroy it.
By bryanx on March 20, 2010 12:36 AM
Recently moved from Bed Stuy to Red Hook.
Mainly because my girlfriend likes to buy cheese that doesn't begin with "Mac n'"
...and you can't get that in Bed Stuy without making a loop on the Seventh Circle of Hell (AKA the B52 bus.)
By bryanx on March 25, 2010 2:10 PM
walked by this property a few minutes ago.
The front yard is full of lath strips, 5 feet high.
Apparently a gut reno is in progress.
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"Was this a good buy or not?"
No because when you spend the 500K making it liveable, you will realize you just spent 750K and you live in Red Hook