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House of the Day: 207 Lincoln Road

207-Lincoln-Road-0110.jpg
This gorgeous brownstone at 207 Lincoln Road just hit the market this week. The three-story house has been recently restored and, judging from the frustratingly few photos in the listing, was done so very nicely. The current owners bought the place for $800,000 in 2004 so, post-reno, they probably don't stand to make a lot of dough on the deal, even if they get close to achieving their $999,000 asking price.
207 Lincoln Road [Brown Harris Stevens] GMAP P*Shark




54 Comments

By bkny on January 14, 2010 1:24 PM

love the wood detail on the entry. i would love more pictures and a floor plan. don't like the fact that the kitchen is on the ground floor. i think the ask is reasonable.

By BHS on January 14, 2010 1:29 PM

This place looks wonderful--really beautiful. though I would prefer original kitchen and baths, I realize i'm in the minority on that one. Frustrating lack of pictures and floorplan. I have to guess at the number of bedrooms and bathrooms from the text?? This is basic stuff.

By A CrownHeightsLady on January 14, 2010 1:37 PM

One of the nicest homes I've seen for sale in a long time.

By tybur6 on January 14, 2010 1:47 PM

OK... just because this comparison business is amusing me. Here's what you can get for a $150,000 discount. http://bk.ly/bjz

This one has a tennis court if you're into that.

By antidope on January 14, 2010 1:48 PM

this is a beautiful house to look at and visit.
three stories have a big advantage over the triple/garden four stories -- no tenant hassle / better economics / more privacy

that said, agree with bkny about kitchen. i think the parlor level sans kitchen is too period. i think you will not use that level much at all really. i mean, how often are you really going to sit down and have a tea party?

ideal three story layout would have kitchen in rear of parlor level with a deck off the back. then you'd have a normal family sized rowhouse.

no bathroom on third floor? ill trade you one sink for a toilet

By bxgrl on January 14, 2010 1:48 PM

Just plain gorgeous. I love the detail- and the entry way is fabulous. And I'm with you re original kitchens and baths, BHS.

By Montrose Morris on January 14, 2010 1:58 PM

Beautiful, warm looking house. I also prefer original kitchens and baths, but a well designed parlour kitchen works too. The necessity of renting out a ground floor apartment sometimes supersedes original kitchen. And one could always fix up the original kitchen for the tenant. It's still your house.

By tybur6 on January 14, 2010 1:59 PM

And for a similar discount price of $865k, this one comes with 20 acres, 1800 feet of lake shore, and a helicopter landing pad.

http://bk.ly/bjA

It's an hour from Burlington and 1-1/2 hrs from Montreal. Though MUCH faster by helicopter.

By BHS on January 14, 2010 2:00 PM

Antidope--re using a parlor without a kitchen, and the period-ness of that, I have been interested to notice that houses with the old fashioned setup of a kitchen in the back behind multiple doors or in the basement, guests dont end up congregating in the kitchen at parties. A little social experiment. If the kitchen is a small utility room separated from the rest of the house people seem to hang out in the dining room, if that's where food and drinks are. Your point about the every-day use of the space is well taken, though I think it depends on where you place the TV and the comfy chair/couch.

By daveinbedstuy on January 14, 2010 2:03 PM

One of the issues with a more remote kitchen is that presumably for most dinner parties, you yourself are also serving as the chef, server and chief bottle washer.

By gemini10 on January 14, 2010 2:04 PM

Very pretty house, the facade is really gorgeous

By TownhouseLady on January 14, 2010 2:15 PM

Oh this is a stunner. I love the way they're reno'd it.

My house is the same size (I'm assuming since there's no floor plan). We have the kitchen in the back of the parlor floor. That would be the only thing I'd prefer to see here. Like Dave says unless you have servants (now wouldn't that be nice?) you're the one who's doing all the legwork at the party and it's nice to not have to have stairs involved in the journey.

By Bob Marvin on January 14, 2010 2:16 PM

Having lived in a three story house with a traditional (ground floor rear kitchen) layout for many years, I disagree with "antidope" about a parlor floor kitchen being ideal. We use both our garden and parlor floor a lot (albeit mainly the back parlor "family room" on the parlor floor). We spend a lot of time in the kitchen and dining room (which also has a sofa and the computer), but gravitate towards the back parlor in the evening. Still, it's nice to have the whole parlor floor available as space to entertain guests. With the two most-used sitting rooms on different floors and opposite ends of the house I can read (a book, on the dining room sofa or, more often, this website, on the computer) while my wife watches TV upstairs (or vice versa).

IMO a parlor floor kitchen is OK if you need to rent the garden floor, but it's far from ideal.

BTW, this house is in the PLG Historic District, but across the street from Lefferts Manor, so AFAIK a buyer could have a rental (but I much prefer the house's present single family configuration).

By more4less on January 14, 2010 2:22 PM

Bob, Per PLG houses referenced on this blog before, this is a strong price right? I mean, I recall seeing some bigger 4 stories nice ones in PLG or Lefferts Manor selling around $1M not too long ago.

By dt on January 14, 2010 2:26 PM

I much prefer having the kitchen on the garden level leading out to the garden. We have our three story set up that way and use the parlor level back room for our den. We end up using the whole house this way. When we have dinner parties we use the dining room (also on the garden level) and for other parties we have the entire parlor level. If you put your kitchen on the parlor level you never use the garden level. What's the point of having 3,000 sqaure feet if you only use 2,000?

By Bob Marvin on January 14, 2010 2:27 PM

more4less,

I'm not an expert on house prices, especially post-downturn, but IMO this is a pretty good asking price for a house that's been nicely renovated.

BTW, it's not really "PLG or Lefferts Manor"; LM is part of PLG.

By Bob Marvin on January 14, 2010 2:29 PM

"What's the point of having 3,000 sqaure feet if you only use 2,000?"

Exactly!

By A CrownHeightsLady on January 14, 2010 2:34 PM

dt...I completely agree with you. Parlor levels kitchen in brownstone like this is simply odd and not original to the house.

My mother owns a brownstone in Clinton Hill (the home I grow up in) and it was originally designed as follows:

Basement

Garden level: kitchen in the rear with half bath, sewing room, and formal dining room.

Parlor level: front parlor/music room/library, rear parlor/formal living room

2nd and 3rd floors: 4 bedrooms and two full baths.

Now mind you this was before it was converted in to a two family in the 60's.

By A CrownHeightsLady on January 14, 2010 2:34 PM

dt...I completely agree with you. Parlor levels kitchen in brownstone like this is simply odd and not original to the house.

My mother owns a brownstone in Clinton Hill (the home I grow up in) and it was originally designed as follows:

Basement

Garden level: kitchen in the rear with half bath, sewing room, and formal dining room.

Parlor level: front parlor/music room/library, rear parlor/formal living room

2nd and 3rd floors: 4 bedrooms and two full baths.

Now mind you this was before it was converted in to a two family in the 60's.

By shillstoner on January 14, 2010 2:38 PM

My friends live in an identical house in Lefferts Manor. Personally the problem with the layout is that all the bedrooms are on one floor, which is darn tight. 2 of the bedrooms are tiny hallway size rooms, and you're all on top of each other. Obviously, much roomier than most apartments, but not nearly as nice and spacoious as a 4 story.

By Frederick Law Homestead on January 14, 2010 2:39 PM

This is a very good price, even post downturn. A very similar house a few doors down sold two years ago for 999k. That was in need of at least 100k work (new windows, roof, joist repair, kitchen). If you're paying less than a million for a detail-packed turnkey house two blocks from prospect park, express B/Q/S, on a block that just won the greenest block contest, with rental income potential, that's a pretty good deal.

By antidope on January 14, 2010 2:39 PM

i dont know about y'all. i see your points, but ...
isn't the ground floor level low ceilings? sleep in the back (gain a bedroom); watch tv in the front. the best floor in a typical three story is the parlor level. the vast majority of my free time is spent socializing with my family and that usually revolves around food, either making it (sorry no servants) or consuming it; not twice a year parties. ergo kitchen on nice floor. for parties, i'd prefer to entertain on the grand floor with the guests meandering through an open kitchen (hey nice d/w) to pass from living room to deck/garden and back.

but i haven't seen too many listings that look like this either so maybe i'm in the minority.

By househunt on January 14, 2010 2:42 PM

Okay, I'm clearly clueless today, but are there floor plans to accompany the lack of photos? Where are pictures of the bathrooms and kitchen?

By tybur6 on January 14, 2010 2:42 PM

CrownHeightsLady, that's a very nice and old fashioned layout. But wouldn't you want something more livable for a family?

Basement: Gimp Room and utilities.

Garden Level: Family Room with TV, comfy couches, exercise equip if you're into that, etc., 1/2 bath, maybe a home office or "sewing room"

Parlor Level: Formal Dining Room, Kitchen, Formal Sitting Room/Parlor, maybe a deck with BBQ and/or stairs leading to the garden. (I'd also like a urinal under the stairs, but I'm lazy.)

2nd & 3rd Floors: Bedrooms and tubs galore.

By daveinbedstuy on January 14, 2010 2:44 PM

antidope, mine looks like that.

I rent the garden level out. I'm one person, 1,600 sq ft and two floors is plenty.

By A CrownHeightsLady on January 14, 2010 2:50 PM

tybur6...that sound nice but I'm ok with and actually like the old world charm of a these homes. Yes it would be nice to a master suite and a family room etc etc etc....but as long as the baths and kitchen are nicely updated I'm fine. And there's nothing like a old fashion walk through between bedrooms with the original marble sinks!

By A CrownHeightsLady on January 14, 2010 2:50 PM

tybur6...that sound nice but I'm ok with and actually like the old world charm of a these homes. Yes it would be nice to a master suite and a family room etc etc etc....but as long as the baths and kitchen are nicely updated I'm fine. And there's nothing like a old fashion walk through between bedrooms with the original marble sinks!

By wine lover on January 14, 2010 2:51 PM

doesn't this debate get tiring... correct answer is unless you are like dave - one person - all the configurations kinda blow. the whole cramped living/dining/kitchen thing is not great, and it's true that that parlor gets ignored when kitchen on the ground floor. when i had a brownstone, one year the parlor floor was used maybe 5 times.

By Bob Marvin on January 14, 2010 2:52 PM

shillstoner,

There's a lot of truth to what you right. When my son was a teenager I'd have sold my soul (if I believed I had one) for a four story (or one of the three story colonial revivals in my neighborhood, with TWO bedroom floors). However, in the years before and since that period of torture, I prefer my current layout. Four stories are a bit more than I'd need (long term) in a one-family house.

By sterlingsliver on January 14, 2010 2:53 PM

Great house but I doubt they'll get the price. To pay $1M in lefferts in this market I'd want
a> four floors,
b> no hallway in parlor floor (so the living space is wider and grander)
c> a garden rental if it wasn't in the historic district
or
d> on one of very best blocks in historic district which this isnt... .
If others bought for $1M and put 100K into their house two years ago that proves the point. That one would be below $900 today.

Still a wonderful house, though


By 11217 on January 14, 2010 2:54 PM

Wine lover,

I think actually that the argument here is that multiple configurations work for different people and not that they all blow.

You attitude kinda blows. Especially given that this is a blog devoted mostly to the homes in which these configurations are most common.

It's not Williamsburgwhiteboxinthesky.com

This home is gorgeous, no matter how it's configured. Whoever buys it will figure out what suits them best and make it work. Life is a compromise.

By Bob Marvin on January 14, 2010 2:55 PM

Whoops; "write", not "right"--sorry.

By shillstoner on January 14, 2010 2:58 PM

Bob, my kids are in the tweens and early teens stage, which is why one floor of bedrooms seems way too tight. When they were nice, I mean younger, it probably would have been fine.

By Bob Marvin on January 14, 2010 3:02 PM

sterlingsilver,

What makes you think that Lincoln II ISN'T one of very best blocks in historic district? I disagree (and NO, this isn't my block).

By antidope on January 14, 2010 3:04 PM

agree that 4 is too many floors. my proposed layout solves the dreaded teenager on top of me issue. the only compromise- as i see it- would be in a home like this that is dripping in original details. you need something that's already been chopped up bc you'd be committing a low level sin to tear up a period parlor and throw in a kitchen on the floor.

By Bob Marvin on January 14, 2010 3:04 PM

Shillstoner,

They eventually rejoin the human race and (if you're lucky) move out a few years later :-)

By LuvingModern on January 14, 2010 3:15 PM

LOVE this house.

also, agree with shillstoner regarding the configuration of these 3-story houses. having only one floor of bedrooms could easily cramp one's style, especially if you're a family with more than one child. personally though, i don't think the 4 stories are any nicer because they have the same layout. the difference or advantage is having the extra floor.

By Bob Marvin on January 14, 2010 3:32 PM

LuvingModern,

In a three story, you could always build dungeons in the cellar for the kids during those "difficult" years. There were plenty of times that I was tempted. Maybe I should have taken my son upon his offer to drop out of school and move to a squat on the LES (as long as I continued to pay his expenses). However, as I wrote earlier they DO (usually) rejoin humanity and it (eventually) works out :-)

By sterlingsliver on January 14, 2010 3:35 PM

Bob Marvin, I believe houses on Midwood I and II or Maple II have sold at a premium to similar (ie equally gorgeous) homes on other (still very nice) blocks in LM.
You'd have to be thinking about that if you're going to plunk down $1M in htis market.

By Bob Marvin on January 14, 2010 3:51 PM

Quite true sterlingsilver, but more $$ doesn't necessarily mean nicer. I live on Midwood II and love it, but think that Lincoln II is every bit as nice (and, perhaps, even more architecturally distinguished).

By sterlingsliver on January 14, 2010 4:09 PM

i never said nicer.. .or even more architecturally distinguished. I was only talking about $$.

By Frederick Law Homestead on January 14, 2010 4:13 PM

Sterlingsilver, I think you're off on this. Most recent comps in the neighborhood are a much smaller 2-story on maple for 830k, another 2 story on rutland for 975k, and a 3 story on maple/bedford that needed work for 920k. And a 3-story on fenimore for 920K. Those locations have nothing on Lincoln II (I don't live there either). I don't think we'll see above a million outside of lefferts manor for a while, but this is as close as it gets, niceness-wise. 30 Midwood sold last summer for 1.2. That's the comp for the kind of 4-story prime LM block you're talking about. Sorry to be pedantic, but the market isn't that bad in PLG.

By Bshep on January 14, 2010 4:15 PM

Additional photos and floor plan will be added next week.
Sorry for the unexpected delay.

By Frederick Law Homestead on January 14, 2010 4:26 PM

sorry, 3-story on Fenimore 1 almost identical to this went for 998k last april, a month after the stock market hit 12 year lows.

By bkny on January 14, 2010 4:39 PM

i have a three story and parlor kitchen. the layout works great for us. we are always on the ground floor because that's where our 'family room' is - read big tv & comfy sofa. the kids can go wild and mess the place up. the parlor is more formal. for entertaining both floors are used and both floors have baths. the upstairs is 3 bedrooms (could have been 4, but would have been much tighter).

to each his own.....

By Bob Marvin on January 14, 2010 4:51 PM

sterlingsilver,

You wrote "one of very best blocks in historic district which this isnt... ."

If by best, you mean more $$$, we have very different standards. Nothing wrong with that, of course, we just live in very different worlds.

By traditionalmod on January 15, 2010 8:54 AM

I love a kitchen on the garden/ground level. It allows you to create a more open loft-style kitchen-family room and have that without ripping out all the original details of a parlor floor. As for whether the parlor floor is used when the kitchen is on the garden floor, I think those are mainly people with young children who always need to keep an eye on them saying that a 2nd LR on another floor is not used. Once kids are adolescents (or even before) and want their own space you'll be thrilled you have two or three different spaces for reading and watching TV in the house. Preteen onward kids don't want to hang out with their parents when their friends come over. With only one living room for the whole family your kid will always be shut away in his bedroom or out of the house. Growing up in the suburbs my brothers and I had a whole separate den/tv room with kitchenette just for us and it's the only reason I spent any time with my then-loathed brothers at all. My mother could cruise through on the way to the laundry room and see what we were up to without us feeling like she was invading our space.

By Crunchy Granola on January 15, 2010 5:56 PM

This house is, actually, a little bit underpriced given the current market. A good broker would have priced this home at $1.1M (unless it's not as well renovated as claimed).

My guess is that this broker doesn't want to work so hard in a tough market. Or maybe the broker has a lot of bills and selling real estate is the only thing he knows how to do. Of course, there's an outside chance the Seller is facing foreclosure.

Basically, this is a "screw-your-neighbor's-comps" race to the bottom in which greed plays as much a destructive role as it did during the days of escalating prices and house flipping.

By Crunchy Granola on January 16, 2010 10:12 AM

If this house is as renovated as it claims to be, it should be listed at $1.1M. If Hawthorne and Fenimore can pull $1M for similar homes, surely Lincoln II can. There must be a back-story to this listing.

FYI - Lincoln II is definitely in the better half of Lefferts Manor blocks for many reasons. It's a tranquil, wide, tree-lined block with some serious gems. Its exterior architecture is fairly well-organized and uniform. you can walk to K-Dog, Enduro and the Q train w/out ever having to set foot on Flatbush Avenue. And it has an award-winning block association.

There's no debating that in terms of overall quality, Maple II is clearly the best Lefferts block due to its uniform, unique architecture and tree-lined tranquility. Lincoln II is just around the corner. Maple I is probably the second best block in the manor given its tranquility, proximity to the train and cafes. Towards Bedford it has an abundance of large lots and mansion-esque homes. Although its architecture spans two centuries, all the homes on the block are red brick.

In terms of quality, I'd put Midwood I next, and then Lincoln II. Although Midwood I has many vocal fans, due in part to its 4-story rowhouse gems, it has been traditionally overrated with respect to the rest of the Manor, especially by the brokerage community. Its best buildings are a bit too close to the mayhem of Flatbush. The street is too narrow and clausterphobic for 4 story buildings (a number of which are only 17 feet wide). And it lacks architectural consistency of style. Overall, the block may have an abundance of virtues, but compared to the rest of the Manor, it offers more visual noise, audible noise and urban claustrophobia.

The north part of PLG is clearly better than the south part, although lower real estate prices have led to some serious gentrification. The influx of the middle class could change the dynamics of the neighorbood, especially once Atlantic Yards introduces to Park Slope and Prospect Heights insanity one would normally associate with Madison Square Garden and its environs.

By Frederick Law Homestead on January 17, 2010 5:36 PM

Ooh! This is like a very obscure version of American Idol! I put Rutland I ahead of Maple II and Lincoln II. And I'd put the Flatbush-Bedford blocks above the Bedford-Rogers ones. The noise/chaos from Flatbush is barely noticeable a hundred feet in from the corner, and none of the houses begin that close anyway.

Don't think the broker is playing screw your comps, as he owns in the neighborhood himself, as do several of his colleagues. Probably he and the seller just want it to move in a reasonable time frame. There's a 2-story on Midwood II that/s been asking 1.3M for 9 months. I don't see why other sellers in the neighborhood should have to price according to that seller's delusional calculus.

By dt on January 17, 2010 7:09 PM

Frederick, the two story you refer to is obn Maple II. However, there is an amazing two story on Midwood II that had an open house today. I went just to check it out. Beautiful house, priced just under 1 mil. Totally worth it IMHO.

By Crunchy Granola on January 17, 2010 8:58 PM

DT, 212 Midwood, the house to which you refer, has been renovated wonderfully. But it is TWO STORIES + English Basement. 207 Lincoln Road is THREE STORIES + a cellar + income potential.

Brokers only underprice to push a bidding war. But that's a risky strategy in this market because everyone underbids these days. It's a knee-jerk response. Surely, there's a backstory to the underpricing of 207 Lincoln. Or else someone is desparate or stupid or both.

By Crunchy Granola on March 14, 2010 8:08 PM

This house went into contract in two months. In fact, all houses in PLG listed since January are in contract. The moral of the story? People are now underpricing their homes. This comes as no surprise to anyone who sh*t a brick when they saw the listing price on this house 3000 sqft house. The upside? Our comps may be lower, but at least we have a happy broker in the neighborhood. Thanks!

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