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329 Prez Finally Sells—For Less Than 50% of its Peak Ask

Categories: Carroll Gardens, Sales

329%20president%20street%201-2010.JPG
No question, 329 President Street was way overpriced from the get-go, but it's still remarkable how far off its ultimate selling price—$1.7 million, a deal that was recorded in public records this week—was from its initial ask in early '08, $3.6 million. After that, StreetEasy shows a listing history that involves a lot of cuts and one inexplicable increase:

03/04/2008 Price decreased by 17% to $2,995,000.
03/20/2008 Listing is no longer available.
12/28/2008 Listed by Vita Realty at $2,500,000.
01/30/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $2,275,000.
03/31/2009 Price decreased by 12% to $2,000,000.
05/11/2009 Price increased by 10% to $2,200,000.
07/31/2009 Price decreased by 10% to $1,975,000.
09/10/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $1,888,888.
11/04/2009 Listing entered contract.

When it was a House of the Day last August and asking $1,975,000, the reader widget guess on it was $1,478,652.
House of the Day: 329 President Street [Brownstoner]
329 President Street [Streeteasy] GMAP P*Shark
Overpricing Not Working in Carroll Gardens [Brownstoner]
What the Heck Is Going On in Carroll Gardens? [Brownstoner]



By Gabby at January 28, 2010 9:29 AM | Comments (40)

40 Comments

By Joe from Brooklyn on January 28, 2010 9:32 AM

Can you say bitter buyer?

By daveinbedstuy on January 28, 2010 9:33 AM

Comps?? Anything around there ever sell for more than $1.6MM, especially a 3 storey????

By hannible on January 28, 2010 9:35 AM

550 per floor? I don't know I will let time be the judge.

By daveinbedstuy on January 28, 2010 9:35 AM

"Character-less renovation" is right, although the ceiling fan is a nice touch.

By slopefarm on January 28, 2010 9:39 AM

The widget constant gets more impressive every day. Whether a house goes for near ask or half off ask, widget+15% seems to be about the best predictor of sale prices around.

**bid widget x 1.15**

By benson on January 28, 2010 9:41 AM

Headline is a pathetic attempt by Mr. B. to create clicks.

By brownstoner on January 28, 2010 9:44 AM

$1,478,652 x 1.15 = $1.7 million on the nose. The widget multiplier nails it.

By Petebklyn on January 28, 2010 9:49 AM

good question, Dave. My guess is yes but not over $2 for 3 story done well with orig. detail. Not the developer redo who knows only one style(neo-sterile).

By DeLepp on January 28, 2010 9:52 AM

That's still a lot of coin fo ra 3 story house. How wide is this, 15 feet?

By hannible on January 28, 2010 9:58 AM

That is about the size of two beds side by side. Does that technacaly make it an automatic 2 bedroom?

By daveinbedstuy on January 28, 2010 10:03 AM

According to Propertyshark, it last sold in 2005 for $1.115MM. It's 16 X 45' and 2,185 sq. ft.....way overpriced for this quality reno.

By Adam Dahill on January 28, 2010 10:04 AM

Very Strong price for a 3 story. Carroll Gardens is still demanding top dollar.

I always assumed houses in the slope were a little more expensive but from the sales that I have been seeing it's the Gardens that are coming in ahead.

Less strollers maybe?

By mopar on January 28, 2010 10:05 AM

Overpricing seems to work. $1.7 is quite high for such a tiny place.

By Maly on January 28, 2010 10:29 AM

agreed, Mopar, especially considering the "quality" of the renovation and the lesser school zoning.

By Brownstones Half Off on January 28, 2010 10:31 AM

"Here are some comps from around the neighborhood


230 Degraw Street sold for $3.4 million in Aug. 2007

380 Degraw St. $2.88 million 4 story 3600 sq ft. 8/2007

241 Sackett sold for $2m and that was 13.5' wide. This is a street that the bus is on! Aug. 2007

In April 2007, someone paid $2,010,000 for the 4th and 5th floor duplex at 100 2nd place, no elevator.

378 Clinton Street, also sold the 4th and 5th floor duplex for $2.1 million

86A 3rd place sold for $1.8. It is 13x40 and makes 40 2nd place feels like a mansion in comparison.

249 Degraw Street, 2700 sq ft condo. $2.45 million"

Posted by: guest at January 30, 2008 10:40 AM

Given the above information, if true, I'd say peak comp for 329 Prez looks something like 241 Sackett, 2 mil. 15% off?

The ask history is an exception to the rule that asks, when first set, tend to be close to comps.

***Bid half off peak comps***

By JohnnyDangerously on January 28, 2010 10:41 AM

I saw this property months ago, back when it was still listed for 1.975.. It was a nice home but the quality of the finish work was not impressive and lots of corners were cut.. If they're ok with finish work looking bad I wonder what level of quality they accept with the stuff thats hidden..

By IronMaiden on January 28, 2010 10:45 AM

WTF is widget?

By sebb on January 28, 2010 10:48 AM

Maly: I would hardly consider CG to have the lesser school zoning.
If you ask me.

By stuntmanmike on January 28, 2010 10:51 AM

If you consider some of the condos up the street at 277 president sold for over 2 mil, pretty good value here. Even if you have to redo some of the finishes. This is one of the nicest blocks in CG, landmark district.

By 11217 on January 28, 2010 11:23 AM

It sold for $778 psf and we're supposed to think that's bad according to the headline??

This example is a perfect one to show how truly ABSURD BHO and Miss Muffet's examples of "peak asks" mean NADA!!

This tiny house sold for a ton of $$.

By thedudeabides on January 28, 2010 11:41 AM

Seems like $778 psf is around what stuff is selling for in Manhattan right now. I'd rather live in CG than Manhattan but that doesn't mean prices shouldn't be at least 30% less than in the village.

The mortgage is probably 10K at least. You could rent a place like this in the neighborhood for half that. I'd say it's worth a little over a mil at best.

By 11217 on January 28, 2010 11:45 AM

Thedudeabides:

Dude, prices in Manhattan are double this.

The average per square foot price in Manhatan is over $1000. In the village, you'd pay 3 million for a small house like this.

By stevieb on January 28, 2010 11:48 AM

11217, suck on this! As the number one fan on here of wall street bankers, read this and weep!

US banks to cut bonuses to allay public's anger
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/us-banks-tocut-bonuses-to-allay-publics-anger-1870048.html

By antidope on January 28, 2010 11:49 AM

Not only is this an exception to your rule about selling price to original ask ratio, it is also an excellent exception to your rule about 50% off. i agree that this is perhaps 15% off what it might've sold for peak.

shall we change your handle from *bho* to something simpler? *Off* has a nice ring to it...

By Brownstones Half Off on January 28, 2010 11:53 AM

No, 11217. Like I said above, the example is an exception to the rule. How many times out of all has brownie said "way overpriced from the get-go"? 1 out of 25?

Asks, at the time they are set/revised, tend to be close to current comps. That's why most properties sell close to asks despite widget. By and large, asks chase comps up or down. Down in this case within 10% of closed sale price (now a comp).

***Bid half off peak comps***

By 11217 on January 28, 2010 11:57 AM

As I said yesterday Stevie, I have ZERO interest in Wall Street. I'm thrilled they are cutting bonuses.

I think the bonuses are ABSURD!

By Boerumresident on January 28, 2010 12:02 PM

sebb--

I think Maly is referring to the fact that is not zoned for PS 58 (the Carroll school across from the park) but rather for PS 32 -- which traditionally has lower test scores and is underpopulated. In its defesne, I read reports (maybe insideschools) that the school is rather good for special needs kids esp. in the autism spectrum and does a good job with mainstreaming the children.

By Brownstones Half Off on January 28, 2010 12:02 PM

Sorry 'dope. My prediction stands. Price/Rental and Price/Median Income ratios intrinsically value everything at half off peak. Would this building rent out for 1.7/(10x12) = $14,167/mo, whether one unit or multiple units?! Fuck no! Would it rent for about 7 grand? Definitely in the ball park.

Is the median income (including rental) of owners in that 'hood equal to 1.7/3 = $567K/yr?! Fuck no! Is it half that? Definitely in the ball park.

***Bid half off peak comps***

By doldrums on January 28, 2010 12:08 PM

the bankers bonuses keep the the ny and nyc tax cofeers filled. With a big reduction, you will see more pain for the state and city

By 11217 on January 28, 2010 12:17 PM

I hear that doldrums, but they are still absurd given that the American people bailed them out and these banks are still underfunded.

By daveinbedstuy on January 28, 2010 12:23 PM

The banks are not underfunded. They can borrow from the Fed all day long at practically zero and lend it out at 5.5% +++

The banks are now doing EVEN MORE OF A PULLBACK since Obama throws more uncertainty into the equation on their taxes.

By antidope on January 28, 2010 12:25 PM

off- sticking to your guns is fine but you def need a double dip to get there. for now the market is clearly closer to peak than your trough.

By hannible on January 28, 2010 12:43 PM

Not only the 0% an issue with me but banks are not putting forclosed homes on the market as to not flood the market with lower priced homes. If the buyer had this money to buy then God Bless him. It is his business. But can you imagine if it is someone that needs to get the money from a bank?

By Brownstones Half Off on January 28, 2010 12:48 PM

And we are a dippin' again, 'dope. With impunity!

Three year Gov spending freeze. Now that's deflationary. BTW, what the hell does Obama mean by "discretionary spending"? Isn't that when you have money left over after paying your bills?

***Bid half off peak comps***

By thedudeabides on January 28, 2010 1:04 PM

11217: True my analysis is just based off of the NY Times Sunday Real Estate "Recently Sold" column, but I can't remember seeing anything about $1k psf there in a while. Agree with you that prices were over $1,000 psf at one point and asking prices are still over $1,000 psf though.

Regardless, anyone that is analyzing this properly from a cash flow perspective would need to have a strong view that prices are going to appreciate significantly for it to make sense - or else be willing to pay a huge premium for owning versus renting. Hard to dispute that.

By Mario M on January 28, 2010 2:10 PM

Manhattan is a very big place, with very big pricing differences. Harlem is not comparable to the location of this house, but neither is the West Village. This house's location is not very good, being east of Smith and zoned for a pretty bad elementary school. Moreover, there's a slightly smaller house in need of renovation one block away on Union St. asking 750,000 if I'm not mistaken. So 1.7 M looks like waaaay too much. And yes, Manhattan on average has fallen a lot more than brownstone Brooklyn because there's more competition. In fact, you can find plenty of walk-ups on the North-East areas of the UES (around York Ave. and 90th) offered for less than 650 psf. right now.

By Mario M on January 28, 2010 2:13 PM

Of course, to be between Smith and Hoyt is quite different in terms of prettiness of the block than being between Hoyt and Bond, like the house on Union is, but nevertheless 1.7 is too much.

By Petebklyn on January 28, 2010 2:19 PM

this is on one of the nicest looking blocks in carroll gardens and one of the few that are landmarked.
$750k for a house on Union? show us the listing...must be very small and total mess.

By donatella on January 28, 2010 3:31 PM

Wow. 1.7 million. What a deal. I looked at the August listing, where it was referred to as a craptastic renovation and the basement a subterranean mole lair.
I totally agreed with the original assessment. But now -- neo-sterile -- that captures the mood. This is a totally crappy renovation of a nothing 3 story house with everything of character scraped off the front and inside. Give me some hope for the market anyway.

By mopar on January 28, 2010 6:34 PM

hi Donatella, I like your comment.

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