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November 3, 2009

The Gingerbread House Hits the Market

The Gingerbread House, the famous Arts & Crafts residence designed by architect James Sarsfield Kennedy, is for sale. (While it is more popularly known as the Gingerbread House, Forgotten NY points out that its formal name is the Howard E. and Jessie Jones House.) The 5,800-square-foot structure of uncut stone sits on a verdant one-acre lot at 8220 Narrows Avenue just a block from the waterfront. With its thatched roofs and endless interior architectural details, the 1916 house is definitely one of a kind. And it comes with a one-of-a-kind price tag of $12,000,000. This should be interesting.
8220 Narrows Avenue [Brown Harris Stevens] GMAP

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This can't be in Brooklyn!

***Bill Thompson for Mayor (VOTE TODAY!!!)***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at November 3, 2009 10:01 AM

I met Bill Radtke (realtor) when i looked at the dilapidated frame house on the corner of Adelphi & Lafayette. he's a very nice guy. This is a step up in listings for him!

I wonder if the buyer will post on the Forum asking about how to maintain a thatched roof.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 10:02 AM

What the hell is a "Fountain Room"?

Posted by: johnife at November 3, 2009 10:09 AM

i have very mixed feelings about this place.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 10:09 AM

omg- who do I have to marry, sleep with, kiss up to or kill to get this house? Can anyone give me money?

Posted by: bxgrl at November 3, 2009 10:09 AM

A "Dinging Room"?! I've always wanted one of those!

Posted by: CHMomma at November 3, 2009 10:10 AM

"omg- who do I have to marry, sleep with, kiss up to or kill to get this house?"

bxgrl, when will you learn that I am ALWAYS watching?!?! Have you no SHAME, woman? And you can bet I'll be having someone taste all my food from now on.

Posted by: CarrollGardened at November 3, 2009 10:12 AM

bxgrl - Maybe he'd like a two-fer - I want it too.

Posted by: Arkady at November 3, 2009 10:15 AM

i think the co-housing people should buy this place. im not sure why im saying that, i just think they should.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 10:17 AM

This house is my wet dream, and Bay Ridge ain't so bad.

Posted by: Architerrorist at November 3, 2009 10:18 AM

"The 5,800-square-foot structure of uncut stone"

I think I'll look at it. I'm always interested in anything "uncut."

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 10:19 AM

There's a Gingerbread House exactly like this, down to the thatched roof, on Edgewood Avenue in New Haven. I wonder if it's the same architect.

Posted by: CarrollGardened at November 3, 2009 10:20 AM

I always called this the Hansel and Gretel House. The photos don't do it justice. The interiors are beautiful. French doors have fragments of medieval stained glass bought from who knows who in France before they forbade such things. The driveway has a turntable so you can turn the car around and face out or in. I think part of the value here is that there is a very large sideyard that is a developable lot. I shudder to think what could happen there. The couple who own it love it. I wonder why they would be selling.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at November 3, 2009 10:21 AM

C Gar- sweetie! Aren't you plunking down a deposit for this now? (We can let Arkady share with us!) Montrose can rent the garage :-o

Posted by: bxgrl at November 3, 2009 10:21 AM

Is this house on the National Register? Seems like it should joint its stately neighbor, the Siatta House, over in Dyker Heights, if it isn't. There is some jaw-dropping architecture in Brooklyn, and it's not all brownstones ;)

Posted by: Architerrorist at November 3, 2009 10:26 AM

Wow---that is an incredible property all around. I love that Arts and Crafts vibe. As BHO said above, amazing its in Brooklyn. No way to comment on price with something like this.

Posted by: wasder at November 3, 2009 10:26 AM

quote:
"The couple who own it love it. I wonder why they would be selling."

they probably just don't love each other anymore lol. that's what the psychic side of my brain is saying.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 10:27 AM

This house is a NYC landmark. The owners told me that once long ago.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at November 3, 2009 10:29 AM

The question readers should be asking themselves is whether the lot is worth $12m, since this will be sold to a developer. I think we can agree that the dwelling itself is nice, but short of spectacular and will not command a premium in itself. There are plenty of Tuder-influenced craftsman homes, some original Stickleys, near the city for well under $1m. Plenty of quartered oak, etc. if you like that sort of thing.

Posted by: Zarathustra at November 3, 2009 10:34 AM

I WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I knew about this house from research, but had never seen the interior. What a fantastic house, grounds and location. Arts and Crafts has long been my favorite period, largely because of the wonderful eclecticism that can fall under its definition. I would love to see the rest. Minard, my architectural co-conspirator, can you arrange that? : )

They want a lot of money, but I would imagine it would be affordable, give or take a couple of million, for a very successful creative type, like someone in show biz, music, popular fiction, etc. Someone who doesn't need to commute to their high power job, and just needs a place to be away from the madding crowds. I would hope if there is any danger of development, LPC would be on it in a heartbeat to landmark the entire estate. They should anyway, this is a one of a kind, special place.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 3, 2009 10:35 AM

Zarathustra, it's a landmark. It won't be sold to a developer.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 10:36 AM

If it is in fact landmarked with no development potential, then the property is priced far too aggressively. It will sell for well under $5m.

Posted by: Zarathustra at November 3, 2009 10:37 AM

Bring on the Widget.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 10:37 AM

Amazing house! And a price tag to match, sigh.

Posted by: Maly at November 3, 2009 10:39 AM

It is, in fact, landmarked. So skip the developer idea. Google "Howard E. and Jessie Jones House bay ridge landmarked" for details.

And I also think that, landmarked or not, that the majority of the Bay Ridge population would take pitchforks and skewer anyone who tried to tear this place down!

Posted by: northridger at November 3, 2009 10:40 AM

WOW WOW WOW!!!!!!

Posted by: Streetwise123 at November 3, 2009 10:41 AM

It's got an amazing floorplan. en suite master baths, as we know, are only for the best.

I guess the main entrance is through the Fountain Room. That must be nice.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 10:42 AM

"I think we can agree that the dwelling itself is nice, but short of spectacular "

No- I don't think we can. It is spectacular, it may not be your taste. It's an incredible house. It may not get 12 mil in this market, but it is well worth it.

Posted by: bxgrl at November 3, 2009 10:42 AM

P.S. I think the price is high, but they're obviously shooting for a one-of-a-kind buyer to go with a one-of-a-kind house. The normal rules don't apply for something like this.

Posted by: northridger at November 3, 2009 10:42 AM

en suite bathrooms in that house? ugh. the problem i have with these kinds of houses is that the people who live in them and design them are just livin phoney. a garage that circles so you can oooh and aaah it it? please.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 10:45 AM

Was writing when the landmarking info was revealed. Thanks for that Minard. Oh - since you've been in there, how about arranging a tour for your fellow 19th C.architectural cohort, eh? : )

Zarathustra, the point isn't that there may be more of a similar style house somewhere else, the point is that it is where it is now, who built it, the whole story behind the original owner's choices for the house, who they were in the history of the city/Brooklyn, the history of Bay Ridge, etc, etc. A houses importance, and worth is made up of many things. OK, maybe $12MM is way too high, who knows? This is a one of a kind place for Bay Ridge, perhaps for all of Brooklyn, and as such would command some kind of premium. It's not always about the actual bricks and mortar.

For many people, myself included, the history and charm of the entire estate, from what I can see of the craftsmanship and layout of the interior spaces, the view and proximity to the water, even the fact that all of this is in Brooklyn, adds to the desireability. There are many wealthy people who would pay dearly for a place like this, and many more of more modest means who wish they could.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 3, 2009 10:47 AM

rob- it happens to be a unique feature of the house. If its original, it's a feature that actually speaks to the ingenuity of the architect of the time. You should learn to enjoy places like this- you miss out on so much by naysaying.

Posted by: bxgrl at November 3, 2009 10:49 AM

As long as redonkulously-priced property get featured, I'll be posting French chateaux comps.

http://www.sifex.co.uk/PropertyFullDetail.asp?propid=14044

Posted by: the chicken at November 3, 2009 10:51 AM

Is there a category for "thatcher" in the Brownstoner Directory?

Posted by: tscola at November 3, 2009 10:52 AM

I've lost 3 different chauffeurs because they didn't have their own room... it has always been a challenge to maintain a car-and-driver living in a 1-bedroom rental.

I might have to look into this place. It would definitely reduce staff turn over.

Posted by: tybur6 at November 3, 2009 10:53 AM

i find it hard to believe that ensuite poo mist chambers are an original feature to this house. :-/ when was it built? 2003?

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 10:54 AM

http://www.roofthatch.com/

Martha Stewart has featured this guy.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 10:55 AM

This is a beautiful - one of a kind house in Bay Ridge. For those who venture out to other parts of Brooklyn- you know this is a spectacular property. The location is a slight drawback only because it faces the side of Fort Hamilton High School and not the water. If this house were on Shore Road it would be worth even more. If you have never seen it- get yourself out to Bay Ridge on 82nd and Ridge Blvd and drink in the splendor of this house. It will transport you to a time of childhood wonder and make you think- Who are the lucky people who get to wake up inside this house every day!

Posted by: SirCLS at November 3, 2009 10:55 AM

rob- the driveway. the driveway.

Posted by: bxgrl at November 3, 2009 10:58 AM

OOOPs sorry- 82nd and Narrows!

Posted by: SirCLS at November 3, 2009 11:01 AM

lol bxgirl, i totally realized that after i already hit add reply. hahah

oh someone just mentioned it faces a nyc public high school. :-/ that should seriously chop a good 9-10 million off this place. would the new owners be allowed to build a high brick wall around the property? or a moat? a moat would rock at a place like this.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 11:03 AM

rob- a moat is no good without crocodiles and piranhas. :-)

Posted by: bxgrl at November 3, 2009 11:05 AM

The "nosey" in me desperately wants to find out who's lucky enough to live in this house right now but ACRIS address/block & lot search ain't workin'. Get it fixed Bloomie (or are you punishing me for voting for Reverend Billy?)!

Posted by: johnife at November 3, 2009 11:08 AM

$12 million is what a smallish townhouse in the West Village sells for or a spectacular brownstone in Brooklyn Heights. Just to give my following comments context. I don't know they'll get that much for it but I predict the buyer will be a wealthy person who already lives in Bay Ridge and has for a long time if not a couple/few generations and has always coveted this house. But whether somebody who can afford a townhouse in Manhattan will buy it, eh, not so sure. The house is cool but it's next to a large high school if I remember correctly. And the listing mentions nothing about mechanicals, only the historic and architectural significance. Also note lack of photos of baths and kitchen. Don't expect the house to be updated.

Posted by: traditionalmod at November 3, 2009 11:09 AM

Holy Sh*t Chicken!

Posted by: Kensingtonian at November 3, 2009 11:17 AM

The same people have owned it since 1985. it got its landmark designation in 1989.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 11:17 AM

I like the house Chicken posted much better. Even if only because the 12mil would get me a heliport. Oh, and the 49.4 acres. All my people have ever wanted was 40 acres and a mule. Think they'll throw in a mule for me? :)

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at November 3, 2009 11:20 AM

eh, snappy? My people have had 5000 years of misery, OY! all we ever asked for was freedom from borscht :)

Posted by: bxgrl at November 3, 2009 11:29 AM

Well, Bxgirl, I'll buy that house and enjoy the 40 acres (if they throw in the mule) and you and your kitties can come live there too and know that no borscht will ever get past the front gate and Pinkerton guards!

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at November 3, 2009 11:35 AM

my people had it rough too :( all we ever asked for were a couple crops for our circles and a working an@l probe.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 11:37 AM

Can we please trade Rob out for "the What." Jon if you are creating these people to keep the site interesting, how about someone who just posts in French?

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at November 3, 2009 11:43 AM

That does sound like hard times, Rob! LOL

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at November 3, 2009 11:44 AM

Putnam, Rob is very real...we've met him!

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at November 3, 2009 11:48 AM

The Chateaux is gorgoreous, no doubt. And living in France has cachet- but I love this house. It's much more me (so snappy, does this mean you wouldn't visit C Car, Ardkay, MM and I in our not so grandiose residence?

Chateaux aside, places like this are real treasures. If I had teh money I'd make it a House Museum, and start programs for low income youth and teach them the skills and crafts to build and maintain historic houses a la St. John the Divine. We are losing so many skills and hand crafts- we can't build a gothic cathedral today without machines, and pouring cement. Yet look at what our ancestors were able to do- all without electricity and modern tools. Kind of puts us to shame.

Posted by: bxgrl at November 3, 2009 11:50 AM

Beautiful house. But you really have to ask what you can get elsewhere for 12million.
for example for 12 million you can buy;

-the same house in Westchester county with it's schools or the gold coast of long island at around 3 mil.

plus

-the vacation place in the hamptons at around 3 mil.

plus

-an Adirondack estate with 100 acres and a farm with main house and private lake at around 2 million

plus

-a prime brownstone in Park Slope or Fort Greene for that Brooklyn location.
or a spectacular pied a terre in Manhattan for 3 million

and you'd still have a million left over.

that said, this house is special, no doubt.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 11:55 AM

"the same house in Westchester county"

Dude--I hear your logic but this statement a bit much. This is a one of a kind house.

Posted by: wasder at November 3, 2009 12:03 PM

Yeah- but its got that wonderful thatched roof.

Posted by: bxgrl at November 3, 2009 12:05 PM

Bxgirl,

Our ancestors had either actual, or for all intents and purposes, slave labor.

Your idea is pretty cool, though.

Posted by: Brokedeveloper at November 3, 2009 12:07 PM

This is by far my favourite home in Brooklyn.

Although I can help but wonder if it would have been featured as the Horror Show Friday if Brownstoner was around then.

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 3, 2009 12:14 PM

Broke- not for everything. Manual labor was the only way to get things done- I'm not saying society wasn't hard. It certainly was- but look at what they were able to build without all the modern machines, materials and techniques we use today. Don't have to go that far back- the building of the Empire State Building is a great example. True there was machinery, etc. Yes, cathedrals took hundreds of years, but damn! look at the result. But compare it to today when it takes 2-3 years to put up a condo building.

Posted by: bxgrl at November 3, 2009 12:15 PM

"can't help but wonder...", I meant

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 3, 2009 12:17 PM

I'm with Legion. It's nice, but doesn't bowl me over, and I can certainly think of better uses for $12mm...

Posted by: etson at November 3, 2009 12:21 PM

A 12 mill war chest would make for a rockin' PLUSA Holiday party :-) Just sayin'.

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at November 3, 2009 12:23 PM

I'd rather have this for $12 million:

http://realestate.nytimes.com/sales/detail/1999-1601-2819531/2-Clifton-Pl-Irvington-NY-10533

Many would prefer to be situated in a park overlooking the Hudson River than next to a large high school. The Bay Ridge house is a Brooklyn gem but the only person who would pay that kind of money is somebody already in Bay Ridge like I said, who has always coveted it. It wouldn't attract a wealthy Manhattanite who would likely choose other towns if they had to be 45 minutes from Manhattan.

Posted by: traditionalmod at November 3, 2009 12:23 PM

The house is landmarked, as I wrote earlier, but I don't believe the sideyard, which is a separate lot, has landmark protection. One would be buying a landmark house and an adjacent acre or so lot in the nicest part of Bay Ridge. The only prob with the location is the large school across the street to the south. But that isn't a big problem.
Montrosse, I'm afraid I only visited the house once at a political fundraiser. I'm not pals with the owners.
Dave, You do not enter the house through the fountain room you enter from a little medieval-looking vestibule that opens up into the manorial front room, very dramatic. The house is a masterpiece. The chimney looks like it was built by druids brought in from Stonehedge. It is a riot.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at November 3, 2009 12:40 PM

Don't be fooled - there are deep pockets in Bay Ridge (and Staten Island, for that matter). There may well be a buyer for this home... although I think we'll see that 12 million is a tad more than it will actually command.

There's a fabulous, albeit much less grand, arts and crafts home in PPS with a fountain room. Lots of tile, windows. Beautiful.

Posted by: Architerrorist at November 3, 2009 1:12 PM

This house is GORGEOUS!!! There are several grand homes left in Bay Ridge from when the area was a weekend escape for the rich.
I love this house. If only I had the $.

It is landmarked but that doesn't save the interior from being gutted. I do hope that the buyer preserves every inch of the place.

12million is probably a very far stretch even for this acre property. Probably will get 6-7million.

If the owners want to will it to me, I won't say no. I'll take care of and love this house.

Posted by: Expert Textpert at November 3, 2009 2:10 PM

Etson- perhaps you're into charitable giving? Hint, hint.

Posted by: bxgrl at November 3, 2009 2:12 PM

Bxgrl, just FYI, I sent you quite a few messages before and after you said you had not received any response from me. I think there's some kind of technical problem.

Posted by: mopar at November 3, 2009 2:18 PM

I saw that mopar- i did reply to you yesterday. were you sen ding it to bx2bklyn at gmail? I seem to be getting email at that address- post on the OT when you can. Thanks-

Posted by: bxgrl at November 3, 2009 2:28 PM

That's why I asked if it was on the National Register (like the Saitta House in Dyker Heights) - not just NYC Landmarks Register. Anyone know?

Posted by: Architerrorist at November 3, 2009 2:45 PM

Yes you could go to Scarsdale or somewhere upstate to buy a house like this with more land. But then you wouldn't be in Brooklyn anymore.

Posted by: italiana71 at November 3, 2009 2:52 PM

I never understand why people say, "Oh, you could get a house like this (wherever) for less money/with more land, etc... It has nothing to do with the houses covered on this site. If you want a house elsewhere, you should be looking elsewhere. The whole point is that this is a unique opportunity for someone with truly deep pockets to have an amazing home in Brooklyn. Of course that begs the question - does someone with that kind of money want to live in this house, given that it is in Brooklyn? My bet is yes - but it's not going to be some A-List Hollywood type or Wall Street Whiz.

Posted by: Architerrorist at November 3, 2009 2:59 PM

12M for living in low class Bay Ridge?
Well...this section of Bay Ridge is very upscale but the Ridge is not classy but tacky so called-how U doing rich in this section.
6-7millions tops.

Posted by: tjj at November 4, 2009 10:09 PM

I live just a few blocks from this house, and have loved it for years. I doubt it will fetch $12M in this climate, but I can easily imagine $7-9M. The place is immaculate, and unlike anything else I've seen in Brooklyn/New York. Sadly the roof is shingled, not actually thatched as reported above.

Posted by: kolar at November 17, 2009 5:43 PM

I agree that this house will likely go to someone who covets it. That's what happened with the current owners. We had a long chat with them a couple years ago while they were out in their yard playing with their dog. The husband grew up in the neighborhood and apparently always loved that house.

Either that or someone who craves something historic and one of a kind. It really is an amazing property and the fact that it is next to the HS is not really much of a detterent. Narrows is a lovely block overall.

Posted by: ABSinBayRidge at November 21, 2009 4:22 PM

« $21 Million Grant for Coney Affordable Housing Squadron Helps Drivers Get Off (The FDR) »

November 3, 2009

The Gingerbread House Hits the Market

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