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November 5, 2009

Subway Service on Weekends Is F@#%ed

We long ago gave up trying to take the subway on the weekends. Life's too short, so it's the bicycle or car for us. This view was confirmed last weekend when it took an out-of-town friend an hour and a half on Saturday afternoon to get from Midtown to Clinton Hill. So it was no surprise to read this lede in The Post this morning: "Here's a subway service notice: Use your car on the weekends!" A group called the Transit Riders Council has studied subway service over the past two weekends. The bottom line: "It's bedlam," said Andrew Albert, a member of the council as well as the MTA board.
Expect subway service disaster this weekend [NY Post]
Photo by Zach Klein

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that is such a smart thing do... :-/ what a genius.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 5, 2009 10:19 AM

Rob is right. That's a good way to get killed.

Posted by: East New York at November 5, 2009 10:22 AM

All too true.

I hope to get a car before 2010.

What do people like in the $9-12k range for compacts?

I'm thinking 2004-2006 civic or corolla.

Posted by: northsloperenter at November 5, 2009 10:23 AM

That hipster is obviously not serious: he's not wearing his iPhone earplugs.

Posted by: Maly at November 5, 2009 10:25 AM

he won't be able to play kickball if he gets his legs chopped off

Posted by: dittoburg at November 5, 2009 10:25 AM

NSR, how often will you use a car??? Have you done the cost/benefit analysis of not getting one and using car service????

$10,000 cost plus yearly operating expenses of $1,500, insurance $600, gas, $300 likely tickets = $12,400 / $$20 per car service ride = 620 car service trips or almost 2 per day!!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 5, 2009 10:28 AM

Only a white person would do that.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 5, 2009 10:28 AM

I went to a friend's party in Williamsburg/Bushwick a couple of weekends ago -- a part of the city I generally avoid.

So we have the Q-train creeping along like it's still pulled by horses, the L-train was speedy... but only went 2 stops, and then a replacement "Shuttle" bus that was packed like sardines, smelled like sardines, and moved down the road like it was also pulled by horses -- dead ones.

All told -- 1 hour 50 mins to go 6.5 miles. According to google maps, I could have walked it in 2 hours.

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 10:28 AM

i'm surprised no one has mentioned the oddness of including a picture of, not just any hipsterish idiot waiting to have his legs amputated, but jakob lodwick of long-time gawker-ridicule fame. maybe there isn't a lot of crossover between gawker/bstoner readers...

Posted by: perhaps at November 5, 2009 10:30 AM

Don't be a racist, Dave.

The dude is seriously tempting some psycho hipster-hater to give him a little "encouragement" to visit the tracks.

Posted by: East New York at November 5, 2009 10:31 AM

Umm where's his banjo?

Posted by: jack slade at November 5, 2009 10:32 AM

gawker is for moronic californian transplants. maybe that's why no one here noticed.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 5, 2009 10:37 AM

on the weekends if I have to go to the city I take a taxi. Forget about the subway

Posted by: bitter_bubble_buyer at November 5, 2009 10:38 AM

You walk an average of a mile every 15 minutes - 4 mph - & that's an easy strolling gait.

Posted by: Arkady at November 5, 2009 10:38 AM

@ tyburg - and walking would've been free!

Posted by: bklynbpr at November 5, 2009 10:39 AM

NSR -- I have a car and my expenses are close to what DIBS says, though I only get about 1 parking ticket a year... $300?! Jaysus, you suck. :-)

I would have to say, my car has given me a great deal of freedom -- especially *leaving* the city. I don't use it that much in town. Probably twice a week for an errand -- though this increases in the winter. That being said, if my car were to die completely I would have to think long and hard about replacing it. Rentals are cheap enough (though require a little planning) and car services are convenient... and I used them anyway because I find myself accidentally shitfaced.

About the Honda... I think that's a good choice as far as reliability and so on, but theft is a big problem with Hondas, Acuras, and similar cars driven by the folks that modify/enhance their cars. Huge black market for parts.

I have a 1998 Plymouth - that I bought used for $8000 in 2003. It has been surprisingly reliable (truly surprising) and it's just emasculating enough that no one will steal it. Though some bastards (kids?) broke in once and stole ALL of my quarters from the console and made a complete mess of my stuff. I don't pay for theft insurance (my Geico rate is about $800 per year) -- my car isn't worth the deductible. You would probably want to carry theft for a Honda / Acura... that almost doubles the insurance.

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 10:40 AM

What, you mean except for the more than 50% of New Yorkers who don't have cars? The Post is so out of touch that you just have to laugh at it most of the time.

Posted by: hermanjoshua at November 5, 2009 10:44 AM

Maybe having a car in the city is like the own versus rent discussion. "Not everyone wants to rent" is analagous to "not everyone wants to take a car service everywhere or deal with the hassle of renting or Zipcar".

If we did the math we would all be carless renters.

Posted by: Brokedeveloper at November 5, 2009 10:55 AM

Hopefully faux hipster is waiting for the G Train, in which case he'll have plenty of time to consider the foolishness of this act.

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 5, 2009 10:55 AM

On cars...the wife and I decided to get a used VW Bug (the new ones, not from the 60's!) after doing an analsysis. The key part for us wasn't the short distance stuff but the long distance pieces. We go upstate a lot and have relatives way out Long Island. For those we'd normally had to rent a car. It used to be that Zip Car could take up this slack but it's gone up significantly in cost in the past 1 1/2 years.

For us we found the car to be cheaper in the long haul...so long as you buy a used one in good shape, and you can find a place to park it. If you're stuck in street parking forget it, the added stress isn't worth it.

Of course we are now much more mobile so we get the added benefit of being able to shop and explore much more widely than we used to. We used to be slaves to where the choo-choo goes, now we can wander at will :-)

Posted by: northridger at November 5, 2009 10:56 AM

he (she?) has great posture.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at November 5, 2009 11:10 AM

Oh - yeah. Parking. If NorthSlopeRenter, you still live in the North Slope -- that's something to think about. Perhaps rent a car for a week (not kidding) and try it out.

I used to live on St. John's and Underhill, not far from the ol' North Slope. Parking was a horrible thing. Very stressful. That alone almost got me to sell my car several times.

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 11:15 AM

Yes, another reason I don't have one here. The irony of it is that I most likely can park anytime on the block in front of my house but wherever I drove to I couldn't find parking.

Plus, whenever I go somewhere there's likely to be alcohol consumed so that's too big a big risk.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 5, 2009 11:19 AM

DIBS, that $10k would be a capital cost - unless you're throwing it away and buying another one every year.

Posted by: the chicken at November 5, 2009 11:25 AM

Chicken -- you get a fresh car every time you call a car service, you should be able to get a fresh car of your own at least once a year.

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 11:29 AM

Whats gawker?

Posted by: dittoburg at November 5, 2009 11:32 AM

good point tybur! Now where is that waiter with my luxury sauce?!

Posted by: the chicken at November 5, 2009 11:34 AM

Yes, chicken you're right. I was being a bit overzealous in my example.

If the car effectively lasts 5 years then the yearly costs are $2,000 + $1,500 + $660 + $300 = $4,460 / $20 = 223 car rides or one every 1.6 days, or 4.2 rides per week.

The need for a car to get out of NYC is a real issue though, apart from this one of local travel for short trips.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 5, 2009 11:34 AM

Yeah -- i have friends who use Zipcar for long trips. And it's baffling. Several times this summer a bunch of us went upstate for various activities (weddings, etc.) and I would see my friends arrive in a Zipcar. I asked them how much it costs for the weekend and it was OUTRAGEOUS. I don't remember the number now, but I was utterly shocked. It was basically a 10-day rental from Hertz. I don't know why they didn't just get a regular rental... craziness.

(And don't say free gas -- I drove myself and gas was about $90 total)

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 11:42 AM

Also - does ZipCar have an EasyPass transponder? Or do you have to wait in the huge cash lines?

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 11:43 AM

"$10,000 cost plus yearly operating expenses of $1,500, insurance $600, gas, $300 likely tickets = $12,400 / $$20 per car service ride = 620 car service trips or almost 2 per day!!!!!"

dave -- yes, I've looked into the cost/benefit. You have to remember that the $10k initial cost is amortized over several years. Ideally the car would last 4-6 years, so I would put "annual cost of car ownership" at around $4000-$4500 ($2000 amortized purchase price + $2000-$2500 annual operating costs).

I currently spend over $2000/yr on car rentals, so that offsets a big chunk of the costs.

So, the real cost/benefit question is "would I having a car be worth $200/mo to me"?

I'm pretty sure the answer is 'yes'.

I wouldn't be using the car to commute. It would be for shopping on weekends and out of town trips. It would make taking the kid on vacation or to visit grandparents a cheaper and easier process and it would make buying heavy crap and getting it home a lot easier.

Plus, subway service in Brooklyn sucks on the weekends and looks like it is just going to get worse.

Posted by: northsloperenter at November 5, 2009 11:44 AM

No need to spend 10K on a car. You can find a very reliable car for $3-4K. One that you won't worry about parking on the streets.

Posted by: dittoburg at November 5, 2009 11:45 AM

"If NorthSlopeRenter, you still live in the North Slope -"

No, I'm in center slope now, just haven't changed my name yet.

The parking isn't quite as bad here. I've been making a point of observing how many vacant spots I can see when walking around.

It is still pretty bad, but not as a bad as north slope. I assume because more of the buildings are 1/2/3 family instead of 3/4/5 family and because the streets are not through streets from 4th ave to flatbush.

Also, I won't be driving every day, so I'll only need to re-park 2 or 3 times a week.

Posted by: northsloperenter at November 5, 2009 11:50 AM

"No need to spend 10K on a car. You can find a very reliable car for $3-4K. One that you won't worry about parking on the streets."

I want a car I can take my wife and kid in for 200+ mile trips with reasonable comfort, safety, and fuel economy.

Posted by: northsloperenter at November 5, 2009 11:51 AM

Zip cars used to make sense financially for full day or full day+ outings, and we used it as such.

About 1.5 years ago that changed. The prices went up significantly, so that as people mentioned here it cost as much or more as a regular rental car. The only advantage at that point is convenience...it's much easier to schedule a zipcar pickup than to do the paperwork at a rental agency.

Even then the convenience factor has gone down as well. We've had two cases where the car came back so late that we had to pick up another car at another garage. Ugh. Plus the vehicles aren't being maintained, every car we got within the past 24 months had one or more minor issues. No breakdowns thank God, but clearly Zipcar is stinting on basic maintenance and cleanup.

Having our own car parked nearby is a winner in every category, including financial. Again, so long as you get a used one in good shape, and you've got a spot for it. The key factor really is how much day/day+ usage you anticipate. The more of that the more likely it is to work out. For just plain regular city driving it almost certainly is a loss financially.

Posted by: northridger at November 5, 2009 12:13 PM

I have lived with and without cars in brooklyn and it is totally not worth it. you could rent cars and take car service basically at will before reaching the same cost, and wait til start getting parking tickets.

You'll also spend plenty of time in traffic knowing that you could have been on the subway.

Posted by: joe_the_bummer at November 5, 2009 12:22 PM

i signed up for zipcar this year in may so i don't know what their old fees were like, but indeed the cost is high even for a one day trip on a weekend. if you want to get out of the city on the weekend your cheapest one-day rental is about $140. we took it to brimfield, mass this year for four days and it cost over $500.

i do find it convenient -- especially if you live in the downtown brooklyn neighborhoods where there is a high density of zip car lots (my fav is the one on boerum pl between state and livingston -- they have a good selection and bring the car to you as well as park it for you when you return). however if you want to get out of the city on a whim you can't do so cheaply, as the $140/day cars are reserved well in advance.

i'm considering getting a cheap car as well. parking in cobble hill doesn't seem too bad. there's so much to do and see outside of the city -- upstate, long island, new jersey, pennsylvania, and the immediate area of CT too. it's hard to enjoy the region without a car.

Posted by: duckumu at November 5, 2009 12:24 PM

There is something to be said about the convenience of having your own car. With your own car, you can make a spur of the moment decision as to how you're going to get somewhere. With the subways, especially on the weekend you have to plan carefully (and carry a map.) Sometimes, you just want to have a spur of the moment adventure, and the additional cost or hassle of car service takes all the air out of the adventure.

With that being consider only what will make your life easier. If you buy a car, buy the most reliable car that you can afford and son't get snookered by any options that are not convenient to your particular lifestyle.

Posted by: BrooklynIsHome at November 5, 2009 12:39 PM

I respectfully disagree with NorthSlopeRenter. parking is much much easier in the north slope than it is in the Center Slope. I used to live on 2nd Street and it was an utter nightmare trying to find parking - and I drove to work every day so didn't need to worry about alternate side!

The thing about the north slope is that people drive here from other neighborhoods, park, and take the subway into Manhattan. then at 5 p.m., they come back and lots of spaces open up. not kidding. This is not true of the Center Slope where people leave their cars for weeks at a time.

Posted by: tiptoe at November 5, 2009 12:39 PM

The tourists are the ones I feel sorry for on weekends, clutching their little maps and squinting at the inscrutable lists of service changes and struggling to hear the gravelly announcements (if there are any). When they ask me for weekend train directions now, I just send them upstairs to get a cab.

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at November 5, 2009 12:44 PM

lol @ the number of phoney "urbanites" in this thread. i hate that term, but you know, if the phoney pump fits, i guess youre all wearing it hahah.

that said, i really dont have any problems with people having cars, i like riding in cars. i dont drive, but i like getting rides!

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 5, 2009 12:44 PM

NSR - a neighbor of mine is selling their late 1990s civic hatchback. It only has 50k miles on it.

Posted by: lincolnlimestone at November 5, 2009 12:45 PM

Do people ever do "car shares"? I don't mean carpooling, I mean 2 people living close to each other actually sharing ownership of a car.
It means that you have to plan ahead for weekend but then your capital and maintenance costs would be halved.

Never done it myself, or know/heard of anyone doing it but it must be possible.

Posted by: the chicken at November 5, 2009 1:00 PM

Stick with Honda/Toyota. As long as the used car was properly maintained, should have no prob taking it up to 200k miles (I did).

Cars rule, and if you will use it daily for work commute and many weekend trips (as we do), then it makes sense. Obviously easier and greater peace of mind than dealing with rentals.

Posted by: BSD at November 5, 2009 1:14 PM

Chicken -- Most kibbutzim in Israel have shared cars. Usually a car for every 15 families. :-)

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 1:16 PM

BTW, a BIG part of the reason I want a car is having a toddler. Kids seriously complicate travel (just for laughs, next time you call up your favorite car service, ask them if they can send over a car with a child safety seat installed -- or ask your rental car agent if he could hurry up with processing your car rental because your kid is throwing a temper tantrum).

If it weren't for the kid, I'd be happy just renting cars as needed.

tiptoe -- well, I guess I'll find out! I can always drive up to north slope and park there if things get too bad.

lincoln -- thanks for the tip, but I'd rather get something newer.

rob -- lol, aren't people paying enough attention to you?

chicken -- sounds like an absolute nightmare

Posted by: northsloperenter at November 5, 2009 1:20 PM

Hey northsloperenter...

I've got a 2003 Mazda 6 with only 43k miles on it. You can have it for 7.5k.

Posted by: ftgreenepark at November 5, 2009 2:07 PM

Brenda...good point. And the A train express not running to JFK is truly pathetic. Only city in the world without fast service to the airports...truly pathetic.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 5, 2009 2:11 PM

Even though I didn't vote? :)

Not sure about the Mazda 6. I was getting a little overwhelmed with researching and just zeroed in on the civic/corolla.

You can e-mail me at northsloperenter at gmail dot com if you like.

Posted by: northsloperenter at November 5, 2009 2:12 PM

mazda 6 is a nice car. Maybe a tad large 4 u.

Posted by: denton at November 5, 2009 2:29 PM

Oooh... Mazda. That's the other one on the High-Theft list. Honda, Mazda and Acura. Great cars, just very "popular." :-)

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 2:47 PM

tybur -- i'll give some consideration to buying something too crappy to steal, but I might not want to go there...

Posted by: northsloperenter at November 5, 2009 2:57 PM

What a lahooser.

Posted by: iluvclintonhill at November 5, 2009 3:15 PM

we use zipcar a few times a year. no its not really cheap enough to replace owning a used car but the rates actually compare pretty well with renting anywhere in manhattan or brooklyn(aside form at the airports). the locations are way more convenient as well.

Posted by: eh at November 5, 2009 4:01 PM

hate to keep going against the grain here but I dont want the future readers to think that we log in and say baa baa baaaaa all day.

I think zip car drivers should get off the main road and share the bike lane. I almost got nailed by 2 zip cars over the summer; one as pedestrian, and the other while I was driving. In both cases the driver blew through a stop sign.

Posted by: jack slade at November 5, 2009 4:23 PM

For my fellow south slopers try this local car rental service
Express Car Rental

496 7th Avenue

(718) 369-6465

Posted by: IMBY at November 5, 2009 5:10 PM

If you're going to zipcar, sign up for one of the memberships where you pay a monthly fee which rolls over month to month for up to two months (I think) and is credited to your reservations. Then you get lower rates for the reservations. Cheapest one day rental rates on weekends are then $103 for the most basic monthly plan. Add taxes and a couple of easy pass tolls in and out of the city and your paying about $124 for the day in my experience. Not too bad for the convenience. I think it is an especially good service if youjust need a care for a few hours to go to Lowes or something like that.

Posted by: 1842 at November 5, 2009 5:47 PM

I share an '84 VW van w/ a neighbor - she pays for it but I move it for alt side & take it for inspection, etc. We do many errands together - CostCo, Terminal Mkt, etc. It's a real beater so we don't trust it to go very far & she rents when she's taking kids to camp or something - we tried Zip but the bigger places make more sense financially.

Posted by: Arkady at November 5, 2009 6:43 PM

Northslope -- It's not about "too crappy to steal" (though that is effective), it's just having to be conscious about the theft rate... and thinking about insurance apprpriately. The theft insurance rates vary by make/model.

If you carry a mortgage, you need to have theft. If you don't, you have the option. My car neither needs it (not too crappy to steal, but totally uninteresting) nor deserves it (regular deductible now exceeds the replacement value... i.e., if my car was stolen, I would get $0... oh AND my insurance rate would go up because I made a claim!)

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 7:42 PM

I have said it before and I shall say it again, regardless of whether 11217 craps in his diapers: the NYC transit sytem is the government's unsubtle way of telling you to buy an automobile.
In NYC unlike anywhere else in the USA, you only need one car per family. Is that cool or what? But no car per family makes you underclass schmutz. Stuck in the city and dependent on shuttle buses (whatever they are) on weekends.
Look, the whole idea behind New York City has always been to make money and to spend it. If you're too big a sissy or alcoholic to drive, then you better have enough money to pay someone to drive you around.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at November 5, 2009 9:01 PM

I can't go through 60 posts now, so my apologies if someone already said this, but if you click on the photo link and view comments....the guy is posing for his friend. Doesn't make him less of an idiot, but I knew he wasn't just some eccentric dude hanging off the platform....he was just trying to be cool. And failed.

Posted by: rh at November 6, 2009 6:51 AM

We bought a car about a year and a half ago and it has been a Godsend. It was purchased mainly to handle mid to long haul trips out of the city, mostly to see our parents who happen to live in places without good train/bus/air service. We were spending at least $3000 a year on rentals. At first, I was skeptical if we would make much use of it within the city but have found ourselves using it every single weekend almost without fail. This is especially due to the terrible weekend train service that we now have the option to avoid.

Expense-wise, we bought a $4000 used Subaru and have basic theft insurance on it and pay about $1200 a year. We live in South Slope and parking is not bad at all on the street. I think it largely depends on your neighborhood.

We had Zipcar before and, although it was cheaper overall, the hassle of having a fixed time to return it and the ability to secure a car on summer weekends made it a real pain. Plus, Zipcar is no good for long-haul trips over 200 miles away which we do frequently. We view owning the car as paying for added freedom.

Posted by: rocketal at November 6, 2009 10:28 AM

« Foxy & Winston Store Opens Saturday in Red Hook Walkabout: Italianates, the Ornamental Imperative »

November 5, 2009

Subway Service on Weekends Is F@#%ed

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