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Shooting In Boerum Hill

A reader emailed us last night after arriving home at around 8 o'clock to find that her block of Warren Street between 3rd and 4th Avenues had been shut down following a shooting. There were a couple of dozen cops on hand, and they said that someone from the nearby Gowanus Houses had been shot; she inferred from there comments that it was a teenager. She also inferred that the shooter was still on the loose. Anyone else nearby pick up any other details?

60 Comments

By randolph on November 18, 2009 9:35 AM

yeah, let me check my twitter feed and get back to you.

By Butterfly on November 18, 2009 9:36 AM

the amount of shootings that have been going down in all parts of the city is INSANE. i know some people say that it's not a viable deterrant, but i think minors who get caught with guns, whether they used it to shoot or not, should get much stricter penalties. perhaps even deported them to juvie homes ronkonkoma or the poconos or something.

*rob*

By Santa on November 18, 2009 9:45 AM

how many shoots have there been lately?

By jasonkyle on November 18, 2009 9:48 AM

i used to live right there. i would not call that boerum hill

By Butterfly on November 18, 2009 9:48 AM

a really bad one in the bronx involving 5 people getting shot on monday afternoon. nanny bloomberg fudges with the police stats as well so a lot is underreported.

*rob*

By smeyer418 on November 18, 2009 9:50 AM

here are the latest crime stats

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cscity.pdf

even though you may hear more about shootings it doesn't mean they are up. Only that the news cycle is more in tune with them. and I am sure that I can anticipate the "its not reported"...nonsense- all shootings with injuries are reported.

and oh BTW a 15 year old with a gun is going to tried as an adult and the parent who he got the gun from is going to jail too. As for the shooting last night it took place shortly before 7 when the Cpt from the 84 was on his way to the monthly precinct council meeting. He diverted to the scene of the shooting(which is at the border between the 84 and 78 precincts). A person was shot in the leg, he reported at the meeting and the shooting is under investigation

By Butterfly on November 18, 2009 9:53 AM

quote:
all shootings with injuries are reported.

wow. you have no IDEA how ignorant you sound with that statement :-/

*rob*

By cobblehiller on November 18, 2009 9:56 AM

It's Gowanus, not Boerum Hill. Sheesh, damn realtors.

How about stricter gun control instead of harsher penalties? Rob, do you really think more people need to be in jail? We have the highest rate of incarceration in the world for a democratic state. The penalties don't cut it. The guns need to be removed. But the lobbyists and right-wing gun nuts won't allow it. So we'll keep having young people like the high school girl, Vada Vasquez, in the Bronx being shot by 'stray bullets'.

Or we can do what my cousin's wife suggests and give everyone a gun. She thinks this will make the world a safer place. [Can you say WHACK NUT?]

By tybur6 on November 18, 2009 10:00 AM

Rob -- All shootings with injuries that require a trip to the hospital are most definitely reported. It's a requirement of the hospital. There is NO incentive for a medical professional *not* to report a shooting. Of course, they may be reporting it as "John Doe treated at Bronx General Hospital" because that's all the information they have -- i.e., the man with the hole in him refuses to give his name.

That being said - I think that kids found with guns should be taken out back and shot. They have no problem with the idea of shooting someone else -- they shouldn't have a problem with getting shot themselves. And I'm not really exaggerating here. Start shooting kids in the thigh as standard procedure and I guarantee gun carrying rates will go down!

By Brownstones Half Off on November 18, 2009 10:00 AM

"Crime is down."

***Bid half off peak comps***

By Petebklyn on November 18, 2009 10:03 AM

quite a few blocks from Gowanus houses...maybe nearby Wyckoff houses?

By northsloperenter on November 18, 2009 10:06 AM

tybur -- don't you think you ought to shoot their parents too?

By Butterfly on November 18, 2009 10:07 AM

so because a bunch of stupid kids act like idiots with guns means all guns should be banned? um no. if i want a gun i should be allowed to own one. if i wanna be a hillbilly and shoot a bunch of tin cans on the top of my trailer, i should be allowed. if i want a gun in my home for protection i should be allowed. should i be allowed to shoot the gun willy nilly in the air as an extension of my penis and manhood? NO.

people also stab people with knives, should knives be banned too? heavens where would everyone get their sushi?

*rob*

By cobblehiller on November 18, 2009 10:07 AM

Yes, next to Wyckoff Houses.

By cobblehiller on November 18, 2009 10:09 AM

No, Rob, illegal guns need to be removed. People need to have permits. What makes you think this person had a permit? Wanna make a bet?

By infinitejester on November 18, 2009 10:09 AM

That Vada Vasquez incident sickened me. The Daily News yesterday had a big article about other innocents caught in gunfire.

I reflect often on what will lessen gun violence. The thing I keep returning to is the culture of machismo and the "code of the streets" and all that shit. No one speaks out about that, or highlights the destructive path that is an early life of youth crime. I heard on the news last night, "Community leaders are coming together to call for an end to the violence." Yeah right - real effective.

By dirty_hipster on November 18, 2009 10:10 AM

sounds like someone was mad that they got some sandy oysters at clover club

By tybur6 on November 18, 2009 10:15 AM

Rob -- if you took a moment to think. Just a moment. Do you not see a difference between a knife and a gun? How many knife wounds are inflicted on *unintended* victims? It's hard to get knifed accidentally standing in your kitchen 1/4 mile away from the knife...

ALSO -- it takes a lot of psychological effort to *walk up to someone* and knife them with the intention of killing them. And most knifings don't have the intention of killing... and guess what, the guy with the knife has a lot more control. A guy with a gun? There's a good chance of killing someone even if you didn't intend to.

Oh and NO -- GOD NO -- I don't think you should have a gun in your home.

By Butterfly on November 18, 2009 10:16 AM

cobble, i agree!!!! that's why i said he shouldnt have one, clearly it's illegal. but i dont believe in banning guns outright. people should be allowed to have them with permits.

and quote:
"Community leaders are coming together to call for an end to the violence."
and i KNOW this might sound cliche.. but maybe the people that kids actually DO look up to should come out and try to put an end to violence. i dont think kids care about or even know who their "community leaders" are, as most of those community leaders are probably too old and lame for them. you know what i mean..

*rob*

By Santa on November 18, 2009 10:17 AM

the city owned medical center on the park slope side of 4th ave and Dean is called the Boerum Hill med center. or something similar.

I would call this area boerum hill. If it's Gowanus than all of beorum hill is gowanus.

By daveinbedstuy on November 18, 2009 10:18 AM

"Community leaders" are typically politicians with an agenda and a need to get re-elected because they've failed at being lawyers or whatever other job.

By tinarina on November 18, 2009 10:23 AM

Gun use will never seriously decline in this country until enough people and politicians have the balls to stand up to the NRA.

NY gun laws are some of the strictest in the nation, but it hardly matters when any crook or psychopath can drive down to a state like Virginia and buy guns privately at a gun show without any paper trail or background check.

Virtually all of the guns seized in NY state come from out of state. It's a huge part of the problem.

By cobblehiller on November 18, 2009 10:25 AM

"Virtually all of the guns seized in NY state come from out of state. It's a huge part of the problem."

Excellent, I agree on all points, tinarina.

By dittoburg on November 18, 2009 10:26 AM

"The thing I keep returning to is the culture of machismo and the "code of the streets" and all that shit"

Having lost faith that young men can get their act together, I considered if young women could do anything. Responsible young women could go a long way to make this behavior shrink. If women refuse to date you because you're a (juvenile) bad boy, you'll see a bunch of guys behaving better. Unfortunately, bad boy behavior seems to be a plus instead of a negative.

By Grand Pa on November 18, 2009 10:28 AM

Have police investigated whether there were any Hot Wing Specials going on in the vicinity?

By dirty_hipster on November 18, 2009 10:29 AM

"If women refuse to date you because you're a (juvenile) bad boy, you'll see a bunch of guys behaving better. Unfortunately, bad boy behavior seems to be a plus instead of a negative."

Totally - women love douchebags.

By daveinbedstuy on November 18, 2009 10:29 AM

Yeah, ditto, until she gets knocked up and then he vanishes.

By etson on November 18, 2009 10:44 AM

"maybe the people that kids actually DO look up to should come out and try to put an end to violence."

Totally agree with this. Also, all this stuff about out of state guns is just NYC trying to pass the buck to other states for its own problems in its own communities. Working on people's behavior should be the priority.

By tinarina on November 18, 2009 11:04 AM

Etson--In places where guns are hard to get, like all of Europe, people don't die from guns.

If guns weren't so easily attainable, kids would resort to old fashioned violence, like fistfights and knives. Not pretty, but generally not lethal.

By Putnamdenizen on November 18, 2009 11:06 AM

Rob - we are not letting you have a gun. I for one think you should not have a computer. Lotsa hate on this thread. Disgusting.

By etson on November 18, 2009 11:08 AM

tinarina,
I am from the UK originally. Guns are an increasing issue and (fatal) teen knife crime in London is getting almost as prevalent as teen gun crime here. Both trends are as the result of cultural changes more than the availability of weapons.

By Sparafucile on November 18, 2009 11:17 AM

Guns in the home are far more likely to be used against family members (either accidentally, in a domestic dispute, or suicide) than against an intruder. So get one if you want to keep your family in line, but not if you want to protect them.

By tinarina on November 18, 2009 11:21 AM

etson--

The stats don't really say that, at least in London:

http://www.londonnet.co.uk/news/2009/mar/london-murder-rate-not-going.html

And homicides are roughly two-thirds less than NYC.

By tinarina on November 18, 2009 11:28 AM

And Etson, I agree that culture plays a big part. But when low-priced, illegal handguns are readily available, change is a lot tougher.

By dittoburg on November 18, 2009 11:35 AM

Putnam - what exactly are so so disgusted about (besides the shooting of course)?

By infinitejester on November 18, 2009 11:44 AM

I've been willed two rifles, owning a gun is not inherently going to make you a psycho who wants to resolve everything with a gunshot. There are tons of guns in rural America and gun crime there is nil.

It is the culture of "I'm so hard, look how fucked up I am busting caps all over this hood. Damn I'm a troublesome motherfucker." No one wants to speak out about that because they all want their hood to be "down".

By gemini10 on November 18, 2009 11:57 AM

The problem really is that many young people today are not taught the value of life and how quickly that life can be taken by reckless behavior either with guns or knifings or a bottle to the head in a fight
Kids are WAY to desensitized to violence and it's because of video games plain and simple.

By dittoburg on November 18, 2009 11:59 AM

I don't know if its so much as being taught the value of life as seeing the value of life.

By northsloperenter on November 18, 2009 12:01 PM

gemini -- I was agreeing with you up to "video games plain and simple."

The fault lies primarily with their families and the values prized in their neighborhoods.

By dittoburg on November 18, 2009 12:10 PM

"and the values prized in their neighborhoods."

Thats a bit of a sweeping statement.

By Boerumresident on November 18, 2009 12:15 PM

This is not Gowanus -- the canal doesn't even begin until Douglass.

I'd agree that this is Boerum Hill -- but I have seen one or two real estate agents calling these townhouse blocks east of 3rd avenue Park Slope.

By gemini10 on November 18, 2009 12:16 PM

NSR - very true
I do think that some people who play violent video games do get sucked into a "fantasy world" where they are involved in strategic shootings and murder scenes whether it's God Of War, Halo, or Grand Theft Auto. I think there are some people who have emotional/mental deficiencies already whether chemical or environmental that are then triggered by playing these games and then go out do harm and not really understand they caused this destruction of life.

Disclaimer - I work in marketing for music and this is my dimestore analysis. haha

By BHill on November 18, 2009 12:22 PM

According to Wikipedia, Warren street is the border of Gowanus and Boerum Hill. So I guess the important questions are not "is this person okay?" or "why did this happen?" but rather "on which side of the street did this occur?" and "how will this affect my property value?"

By northsloperenter on November 18, 2009 12:22 PM

"Thats a bit of a sweeping statement. "

Is that a criticism or a musing?

By infinitejester on November 18, 2009 12:29 PM

Surely the amount of time young men spend playing "other world" video games signals some gaping disconnect with our contemporary culture for them.

By northsloperenter on November 18, 2009 12:42 PM

Even if playing games "signals" something (which I doubt), that does not make the games the "cause".

You don't get sick because you sneeze. You sneeze because you are sick.

By infinitejester on November 18, 2009 12:55 PM

"Even if playing games "signals" something (which I doubt)"

Hmm...where people choose to spend their dream lives signals things to me. Weakly maybe but there's something there.

By gemini10 on November 18, 2009 1:04 PM

IJ has a point though with his 12:55 comment

again, I think it's a combo of factors from parental involvement and teachings to what abuses they suffered as kids, learned beviors from their friends and the signals they get from the media be it games, TV shows or movies/music all contribute to their lack of respect for life

By fsrg on November 18, 2009 1:05 PM

Violent video games have been around since the 80's - violent crime statistics show no correlation.

It is simple, you have a population, where over 50% of the men are not graduating HIGH SCHOOL - > and high school dropouts have an unemployment rate of greater than 50%.

Combine that with easy to get weapons and viola! = lots of violent crime.

All we (the Government) can do is lots of stop and frisks, and incarcerations (which gets guns and people -respectively- off the street) - this suppresses violent crime, but will never eliminate it. Gov't can also offer good schools for those families that chose to escape this world but until somehow, the cycle is broken this will continue.

By northsloperenter on November 18, 2009 1:14 PM

fsrg -- agreed.

Government could also refrain from building any more high population density low income housing and take steps to eliminate it where it exists... but that will take a while.

By dittoburg on November 18, 2009 1:26 PM

Northslope - I did mean it as a criticism. I think the peer group the perpertrators may be hanging out with may have those values, but that doesn't dovetail necessarily with the neighborhood having those values. Often the innocent vitims in the neighborhood who happen to be standing on the wrong street or sitting too near to the wrong window do not share such values at all.

By lechacal on November 18, 2009 1:51 PM

My grandfather was president of the NRA for a number of years. He had some really sweet guns. He also had a concealed carry permit. He once pulled his gun on some wannabe muggers in the subway. He didn't pull a Bernie Goetz or anything, just made them piss themselves and threw them off the train.

By fsrg on November 18, 2009 2:01 PM

northsloperenter - maybe

but plenty of shootings (more per capita) in places like So Central where it was virtually all low density, and there is virtually ZERO in places like Sty Town and just a bit in places like Parkchester. (Both Stuy Town and Parkchester are identical to projects in every meaningful architectural/design way)

Point is - its the people, not the buildings

By northsloperenter on November 18, 2009 2:35 PM

fsrg -- Stuy Town was not low income housing and was fairly selective (i.e., discriminatory) about who they let move in there. Before they became profit focused police officers, teachers, and fire fighters got preferential treatment (as long as they were white, that is).

It's certainly not the architecture that's a problem, and it's not the density alone.

I'm not saying you don't get crime in low density areas. You certainly do. But the high density/low income "projects" were a government creation which has not gone according to plan, to say the least.

dittoburg -- If the peer group grew up in the neighborhood then the values developed in the neighborhood. That doesn't mean 100% of the residents in the neighborhood supported or contributed to this development, but it happened nonetheless.

By denton on November 18, 2009 4:10 PM

lechecal, that's cool about the grandfather. I guess it wasn't Charleton Heston?

"Etson--In places where guns are hard to get, like all of Europe, people don't die from guns."

This doesn't work, in Switzerland guns are not hard to get, every family owns a fully automatic assault rifle under the law.

Gun crime is rising in the UK in direct correlation to the confiscation of guns from citizens. But of course the UK is not Europe.

"If guns weren't so easily attainable, kids would resort to old fashioned violence, like fistfights and knives. Not pretty, but generally not lethal.?"

Gotta look at culture, and I don't mean just ghetto culture. Given our history, we have a culture of violence, after all we're in two wars right now. I once saw an interesting study comparing murder in Seattle vs. Vancouver which are two culturally and geographically similar cities. There were more people murdered in Seattle with weapons other than guns (per capita) than there were murdered in Vancouver with all weapons.

We in the US have some work to do, and just a knee-jerk 'ban all the guns' won't solve it. Especially since it will never happen.

By dittoburg on November 18, 2009 4:12 PM

"But of course the UK is not Europe."

Finally!

By buckfast on November 18, 2009 7:45 PM

for all those who think gun control is the answer,take a look at Russia.Citizens were never allowed to own guns period,during the Soviet era or after the fall of communism.last time i checked,Russia's murder rate is 5 times that of the US.

By tjj on November 18, 2009 8:06 PM

What else is new in this neighborhood~cmon
projects = crime...guns.... low life...poor dudes

By smeyer418 on November 18, 2009 9:09 PM

Hey Bob Butterfly.

Obviously civil discourse is something you weren't taught.

Ignorant means unknowing, which obviously applies to you. I worked at a hospital. All gunshot wounds were reported. Its a crime not to and no doctor wants to lose their license over it. Yes some times people try to claim it happened another another way but 99 plus % of them get reported. Others above had told you the same thing.

Ignoramus must be your secret identity.

I knew someone would claim they were essentially all reported and you posted even before I finished typing...

You can apologize, but I also doubt that you were brought up that way either.

By andynewman on November 19, 2009 6:23 AM

According to the cops, a 27-year-old man was shot in the leg outside 574 Warren Street(in the Wyckoff houses)and taken to Lutheran Medical Center.