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November 4, 2009

East River Ferry Service in Jeopardy—Again

In what can't be taken as anything but a blow to the already challenging marketing campaigns of the handful of high-end waterfront developments in Brooklyn, New York Water Taxi announced that it might have to stop its East River commuter service for the third time in four years after being unable to come to an agreement with the city; to make matters worse, EDC announced that plans to create more routes had been tabled by the recession. The news will definitely create problems for those already living on the waterfront. Take Robert Thorne, who lives at Schaefer Landing in South Williamsburg with his family: “[The ferry] saves us 35, 40 minutes each way,” he said. “That’s more time with our daughter.” A spokesperson for City Council Speaker Christine Quinn said that she's “confident we will be able to preserve and expand existing service.” We shall see.
East River Commuter Ferry Service Could Be Halted, Again [NY Times]
Photo by Tom Hoboken

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quote:
“[The ferry] saves us 35, 40 minutes each way,” he said. “That’s more time with our daughter.”

::tiny violin::

what neighborhoods does this ferry service? cuts in service do suck tho.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 4, 2009 9:25 AM

although reporting is short on detail of ridership, subsidies, cost per person, etc.....
My gut feeling this is very expensive and probably not very energy efficient transport that benefits few.

Posted by: Petebklyn at November 4, 2009 9:35 AM

Interesting... you would think that since the folks served by this water link live in the "Luxury" condos on the river, they'd be able to absorb the costs of a non-subsidized Water Taxi trip.

But I guess they are probably house-poor spending crazy amounts on their piece of heaven.

Then again, I'm told housing prices have no greater effect on the surrounding environment and people will pay what they want and I'm dumb to think that the market could ever be wrong... so *I* must be wrong. They probably can't afford to pay unsubsidized water taxi fares because of the war in Afghanistan.

Posted by: tybur6 at November 4, 2009 9:52 AM

quote:
you would think that since the folks served by this water link live in the "Luxury" condos on the river,

oh. that's who it serves? okay then... a big loud HAAA HAAA

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 4, 2009 9:56 AM

'tis only a piece of heaven if you can take a ferry to work instead of sardining it with the rest of the L-train riders.

Posted by: serpentor at November 4, 2009 10:13 AM

Hey rob, could you you please pass the tiny violin? I've done wore mine out.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at November 4, 2009 10:16 AM

Another measure of the unemployment direction.

But Tweedberg will save us.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at November 4, 2009 10:26 AM

How much is a ride on the water taxi?

Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 4, 2009 10:28 AM

i think it was $5-6 each way. not cheap.

Posted by: CG_ups at November 4, 2009 10:32 AM

suck it up and buy a car. In the end, all grown-ups living in the Boros know that a private car, expensive as it is to own and garage, is the only reliable form of transportation. Car-pool with neighbors to be environment-friendly. New cars are very clean and fuel-efficient. Don't expect public transit or the public sector to meet your needs or make your life better or more convenient. The MTA is on a downward slide and the transit worker union is doing everything in its power to limit the ferries or other forms of private public transit so that when they strike the city can be brought more fully to its knees.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at November 4, 2009 10:33 AM

Real forward thinking there, ML.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at November 4, 2009 10:43 AM

I dunno, Minard. walking is more reliable.

Posted by: Petebklyn at November 4, 2009 10:58 AM

In case you missed it, Ditmas...here is another fun one from Minard from last night:

"I am late to this discussion but I just want to say that 11217 is my least favorite poster. He has quite often attacked me for my opinions and attempted to insult me with phrases like "missing a chromosome" or "moron". He is a nasty piece of work and makes this blog less enjoyable. I doubt very much he owns anything more substantial than a bicycle. I have implored Mr. B to ban him as I think he brings a disturbing, almost psychotic tone to brownstoner.com."

And these very nice quotes from him/her last week...but IM the only one who says nasty things...

**
Ha! 11217, really, how old are you? Are you on meds?

Posted by: Minard Lafever at October 29, 2009 10:54 PM in response to Co-op of the Day: 125 Hawthorne Street Studio

**
only wimps buy studios.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at October 29, 2009 7:51 PM in response to Co-op of the Day: 125 Hawthorne Street Studio

Posted by: 11217 at November 4, 2009 11:01 AM

what does that have to do with this thread 11217? you do that non stop! bringing up your beefs with other posters into random threads. no one cares! this thread is about entitled waterfront condo dwellers who because of this loss of ferry service may now be forced to send their CF's to public school. oh the horror!

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 4, 2009 11:08 AM

The loss of ferry service would suck. Ferries are good ways to get around in a city like New York. I was amazed to see how many ferries are in operation in Istanbul. All over the waterways, ferries going back and forth. Why is NYC so uncivilized?

Better, Rob?

Posted by: 11217 at November 4, 2009 11:10 AM

Lot of ax grinding going on here...

If the [insert your local subway stop here] station were in danger of being shut down, how many of you would keep playing your little violins...

Posted by: northsloperenter at November 4, 2009 11:21 AM

quote:
If the [insert your local subway stop here] station were in danger of being shut down, how many of you would keep playing your little violins...

i'd just walk to the next one, and get on with my life. not complain on the internet that it's stealing precious quality time away from chirruns.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 4, 2009 11:35 AM

I really don't see that at all, 11217. Ferries landings are not in places many people can access easily. NYC, even with lots of waterfront, does not really use it. Difficult to reach, inconvenient...There is no way to get a ferry landing at Lincoln Center, Times Square, or other important locations in this city. Nice tourist ride but not practical in real world here. I think it is money wasted that could be better spent.

Posted by: Petebklyn at November 4, 2009 11:36 AM

"the transit worker union is doing everything in its power to limit the ferries or other forms of private public transit so that when they strike the city can be brought more fully to its knees."

They don't seem to be having much success squelching the dollar vans, which seem able to offer privatized public transportation that doesn't require city subsidy.

But I would certainly love to know the per-rider subsidy of the water taxi. Any why on earth is the Staten Island ferry free, other than a desire to pander to SI voters?

Posted by: Sparafucile at November 4, 2009 11:38 AM

"i'd just walk to the next one, and get on with my life."

Of course you would rob. We have all seen what a stoic you are.

Posted by: northsloperenter at November 4, 2009 11:40 AM

i think this is a real problem that the city needs to address. bigger boats and subsidizing service is needed to help brooklyn grow and to provide alternatives to crowded arteries. you have so many changes all along the waterfront areas, and not just WB. thinking from bay ridge, sunset park, dumbo, etc... if they made it really efficient and reliable, then more would use, then more would pay, and then it could make a profit eventually.

FYI -schaeffer landing is not near the L train (it's quite far south), but walking distance to the JMZ. not really understanding their 35-40 minute savings time with the water taxi. the JMZ either takes you downtown directly or connects to the 6, N,R,W or F for uptown. 3 trains, come one right after another in the mornings. hard to believe the entire trip would be 35 or 40 minutes.

Posted by: wine lover at November 4, 2009 12:11 PM

Someone should have advised Whitman that due to budget cuts ferry service would end in 2009 so that he could include a line or two in his poem about that.

http://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/Classic%20Poems/Whitman/crossing_brooklyn_ferry.htm

Others will enter the gates of the ferry and cross from shore to shore,
Others will watch the run of the flood-tide,
Others will see the shipping of Manhattan north and west, and the heights of Brooklyn to the south and east,
Others will see the islands large and small ;
Fifty years hence, others will see them as they cross, the sun half an hour high,
A hundred years hence, or ever so many hundred years hence, others will see them,
Will enjoy the sunset, the pouring-in of the flood-tide, the falling-back to the sea of the ebb-tide.

Posted by: northsloperenter at November 4, 2009 12:26 PM

If (as they planned) they expanded service to the northside and Greenpoint it would help the bottom line. The water taxi is expensive ($4.50 from Schaefer to Wall Street with a multi-trip discount), but, as someone noted, it's a hell of a lot nicer than the L train. And a northside/Greenpoint ferry could help people who don't live in non-luxury who work at NYU Med Center or in the Wall Street area - it's more expensive, but it's quicker (particularly to NYU) and easier. If you have to get on a train or a bus to get to/from the ferry, it's not worth it.

Schaefer - and many other waterfront developments - have used the water taxi as a selling point, and they (either developers or condo boards) should be providing some subsidy too. It certainly won't help property values at Schaefer if the taxi continues to be a part-time proposition.

And it is easy to see how the water taxi can save 35 to 40 minutes for someone working at NYU medical center. It's an 8-block hike to walk to the JMZ (10 minutes at least), and getting to First Avenue from public transport is another long walk. The water taxi is one stop, takes 5 or 10 minutes and leaves you about four blocks away from NYU.

There already is ferry service to Sunset Park (Brooklyn Army Terminal) and the Rockaways - both are subsidized.

Posted by: WBer at November 4, 2009 12:46 PM

Winelover - have you been on a JMZ as it crawls across the bridge? - its slower than walking. That alone must add 15 mins to the journey.

Greenpoint went downhill after the closed the ferry in 1932.

Posted by: dittoburg at November 4, 2009 1:43 PM

sparafucile - you can get to every other boruggh for free from Manhattan, so why not Staten Island?

Posted by: dittoburg at November 4, 2009 1:45 PM

You should be able to get between ALL of the boroughs for free... if you are registered as a NYC resident. Staten Island isn't exactly a public transportation mecca... but it costs you $10 to drive there!

And a similar cost to go to the Bronx without going through Manhattan -- you'd think they'd want to promote avoiding Manhattan if you didn't need to go there!

I'm all for "border" tolls! Nassau --> Brooklyn/Queens and internally toll the hell out of folks that have Penn./SC/NC/Fla. registrations!

Posted by: tybur6 at November 4, 2009 2:38 PM

Tybur for mayor - he'd make things more interesting, for sure

Posted by: dirty_hipster at November 4, 2009 2:58 PM

I dunno Tyburg...I think less congested/shorter/less polution to get to Bronx via Manhattan (FDR) than BQE-triboro.
How come Brownstoner didn't feature the article about bike sharing in Paris that turned into nightmare.

Posted by: Petebklyn at November 4, 2009 3:40 PM

"And a similar cost to go to the Bronx without going through Manhattan -- you'd think they'd want to promote avoiding Manhattan if you didn't need to go there!"

This is a good point. When driving from Queens to the Bronx or from Brooklyn to Staten Island, you pay a bridge toll that subsidizes mass transit, but you can go to the most congested area of Manhattan for free.

The current toll system encourages people going upstate from Brooklyn to travel via Manhattan. BQE often gets worse traffic than the FDR because it permits commercial vehicles. During non-business hours, for example coming back to Brooklyn on a Sunday afternoon, BQE is usually better.

Posted by: Sparafucile at November 4, 2009 4:02 PM

Thank you for your nomination, Dipster. However, at this point I think I'd rather be a borough president. A lot less pressure to actually produce results... and still get paid $160,000 a year. I could deal with that. I'd probably shout less.

Posted by: tybur6 at November 4, 2009 6:00 PM

the L train is overcrowded
Ferry service as another option is a good thing for the neighborhood, and not just for the ugly condo dwellers

there were actually plans to expand service to a pier on the northside not long ago, was looking forward to this.

Posted by: 11211 at November 5, 2009 2:10 PM

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November 4, 2009

East River Ferry Service in Jeopardy—Again

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