« Weekday Events Open Thread »

November 30, 2009

In Praise of Wood-Frame Houses

This weekend's cover story in the real estate section of the Times was an appreciation of wood-frame houses, particularly those found in Brooklyn and Manhattan neighborhoods dominated by brownstones and brick buildings. All of the story's Brooklyn examples are in Clinton Hill and Fort Greene, and owners of frames in those neighborhoods (like neighborhood mainstays Mary Cole and DK Holland) say they prize their homes for their uniqueness as well as the country-in-the-city lifestyles the houses offer. One of the examples highlighted was 329 Adelphi Street (at right), which was a House of the Day twice: First when it was listed for $950,000 in June, and then in September when the asking had been shaved down to $795,000. The house, which needs a lot of renovation, sold quickly after its price had been lowered, according to broker Roslyn Huebener. The broker says that "most people who want wood frame will do whatever they can to get them. There’s that cult of wood-frame buyers.” She also says that many wood-frames sell at higher per-square-foot prices than their larger brownstone neighbors because they're in such limited supply.
Forgotten by Time and Termites [NY Times]

Trackback Pings

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/12435

Comments

I agree. I think these homes are unique. I went through the Adelphi house and the writer is correct; it will be a huge "labor of love" to bring this place back but once that occurs it'll be a showplace of Ft. Greene.

There are many feeestanding fram homes in Bed Stuy as well. There are some very large ones on Macon St between Stuyvesant & Lewis.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 30, 2009 9:15 AM

i read this article, it was an interesting article, about the houses themselves. as USUAL the people being discussed in the article made me wanna scratch out my corneas with acorns.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 30, 2009 9:36 AM

I think these houses are great. Brownstones require certain kinds of upkeep concerns, frames another, but an old house is an old house, and they share many period similarities. Who doesn't love those beautiful wide plank floors, and the open spaces? The house with the little cottage behind is a treasure indeed, also the one with the multiple car garage and dripping wisteria. The possibilities are endless for what you can do with those buildings, and the gardens are more interesting than your basic brownstone.

Dave is right, there are quite a few frames in Bed Stuy, many just as nice as these. There aren't quite as many here in Crown Heights, but we have them. Too many are covered in materials other than clapboard, and are treasures waiting to be uncovered before it's too late. I really like the Wallabout area frames, as well as the South Slope. They constitute neighborhoods, not just fodder for development.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 30, 2009 9:37 AM

OH! the one funny thing when reading the article for me was when they were referring to wood frame houses as clapboard houses. for some reason i was always under the impression that clapboard house was a derogatory term for houses lol

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 30, 2009 9:37 AM

rob, clapboard refers to the long boards they are sheathed with. They can also be shingle houses, which Adelphi street is currently.

Neither names reference either a veneral disease or Herpes zoster.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 30, 2009 9:44 AM

i think one of the biggest concerns about frame houses is that over the years they tend to get stinky whereas brownstones tend to get musty. anyone else notice that?

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 30, 2009 9:48 AM

In the you-can't-win department, when we were discussing the Adelphi Street house I was berated and accused of total ignorance when I wrote that I did not think that it needed a million dollars worth of rehabilation costs. It is after all, a rather small house.
Last week when a large 4-story unrenovated brownstone was being discussed, I opined that it may need $500,000 in improvements if it was, as I suspected, a wreck. Again I was accused of knowing nothing and needing a "realty check" -a cute typo that I suspect was unintentional.
Oh well.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at November 30, 2009 9:55 AM

Adelphi street does NOT need a million dollars to renovate it. Yes, it's small, the foundation was in good shape as were most of the joists. The roof might need total rafter replacement though.

$500,000 MAX

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 30, 2009 9:58 AM

Yes, happy to see frames get some love, although I agree with rob I could have sone without a few of the featured owners. I remember in the boom years on this site that many posters were quite derogatory of frames as "tinderboxes" and the like. Glad to see that has died down.

On a sad note, I noticed yesterday that a slope frame I really liked -- 357 7th Street -- was completely torn down for new construction, although nothing's been built yet. It used to have a nice natural wood exterior, then its siding was stained a light gray. Now it's gone. Anyone know the story? Was it a wreck inside?

Posted by: slopefarm at November 30, 2009 10:05 AM

> 357 7th Street

That was a cute house. I remember it was on the market a while back for some ridiculous sum. It does not surprise me that it was torn down, and suspect it will be replaced with something fugly. That's a rather unfortunate stretch of houses right there.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at November 30, 2009 11:21 AM

DS,

Yes, it isn't looking very slope-like immediately downhill from 357. Yellow brick, curb cuts, total concrete patio and car parked in the yard. Benson will get on my case for pointing this out, but it is out of character for the area. There's still one nice frame house left in that stretch.

Posted by: slopefarm at November 30, 2009 11:41 AM

"as USUAL the people being discussed in the article made me wanna scratch out my corneas with acorns.

*rob*"

What's wrong with the people in the article?

Posted by: Nomi at November 30, 2009 12:11 PM

I love these little tucked-in cottages so much that I was banging on the table, Meg-Ryan-"I'll-have-what-she's-having" style. So thrilling to discover that others share your cult. Montrose, wouldn't it be cool to dig up some history on the little cute ones tucked in among the semi-industrial blocks of the South Slope between 5th av. and the highway--so obvious that they were built long before the surrounding rows, some set back in deep front yards. I'll bet some of them were little farmhouses.

We actually looked at one on the periphery of PLG 23 years ago, gosh I wish I could remember the address--it was freestanding, sandwiched between small limestone or brick rowhouses and a corner 6-story apt. building...it had an actual barn for a garage, with rusty farm implements in it, I swear...and Delft tiles surrounding the fireplace...location was bad at the time, at least, so we took a pass, but I've never forgotten it, and always wonder if the little cottages I pass have similar treasures within!
(And I have lived in a brownstone and a wooden house, and experienced both "stinky" and "musty" in both, Rob, now be careful of those corneas, please...)

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at November 30, 2009 12:52 PM

Fantastic article celebrating woodframe homes and Brooklyn. We know some of the woodframe owners featured and they are really nice and decent people.
Rob and slopefarm what did you folks find offensive or annoying?

Minard and DIBS from the estimates we are getting for our renovation won't be surprised if 329 Adelphi requires > $500K in renovations with mid range finishes.

Posted by: pierre de taille at November 30, 2009 12:56 PM

Pierre and nomi, thanks for bringing me back to my senses. Whern rob posted I remembered feeling that there was a bit of mild unctiousness in the article. Upon re-reading, I realize it was the realtors, not the homeowners, that annoyed me. No news there.

Brenda, in my quest to confirm your and my South Slope farmhouse fantasy, I have been slowly debunking it. In south slope, say from about 9th through 20th, there was a farm about every 3 blocks or so, running from the water up to what is now PPW or even 10th Ave. There was really only one farmhouse per farm, although occasionally a second family building. Most of the farmhouses were locatred fairly close to Gowanus Road, which in south slope was where 3rd Ave is now. I recently debunked the myth, fed to us by our realtor and some neighbors, that our house was the original Richard Berry farmhouse (12th-15th Streets, Gowanus to PPW). Rereading an old history of Brooklyn, that house was located west of Gowanus Road between 13/14, putting it smack in the middle of a bunch of warehouses and stone fabricators.

My take is that the little frame and setback houses were probably built at the very beginning of the subdivision of the area in the late 1840s-60s before developers in the area ramped up to build rows. They were the pioneers of post-war (civil) suburban sprawl.

Posted by: slopefarm at November 30, 2009 1:35 PM

I guess the writer was more concerned with woodframe houses nestled within brownstone/brick rowhouse areas so apparently didn't consider the South Slope with all its wooden houses...

Anyway, I would l have loved to have seen photos of the house a couple of doors away from the Delgado couple in Clinton Hill. It has columns and is in that Greek temple look of so many federal houses in New England and Upstate New York.

Also, there are those cute houses next to Dan and Woody's old house (the corner house on Adelphi that has received so much interest and luckily sold recently--congratulations to the new owners!).

I was a little perturbed that DK's brick house with the porch I remember she added later was featured in the article. Why in the world would an article on woodframe houses feature a little brick house? Am I missing something? There are plenty of cute, photogenic woodframe houses in Fort Greene they could have chosen to photograph...I guess they may only have been able to feature buildings for which the owners could be contacted and then agreed to an interview. A little lazy as articles go through if you ask me...a brick house featured in an article about woodframe houses? Just because DK is highly available for interviews doesn't mean you should stretch the article to cover her. She might as well have an article just about her (which, if memory serves me, she recently had).

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at November 30, 2009 3:38 PM

Kind of an odd article -- I wasn't sure if they were celebrating wooden houses or just houses that aren't rowhouses or houses from the 1850s through the 1860s. Would have liked to have heard more about the exterior decorations of wooden houses -- things like shingle patterns and Carpenter Gothic and late Victorian trims. Also, that was curious about them selling more per square foot, but I imagine that's because they're smaller. Where I live, wood houses are definitely considered inferior to brick and stone. (In San Francisco, it's the opposite, because wood is safer than brick in an earthquake.)

Posted by: mopar at November 30, 2009 4:27 PM

Agree, BrooklynGreene, incredibly odd to write about a brick house with a wooden porch in a story purporting to be about wood frame houses.

Posted by: mopar at November 30, 2009 4:35 PM

As the owner of one of these Fort Greene houses, I was surprised that the Times article didn't describe my "brick-filled frame" construction. My home has a wood frame built upon a brick and mortar foundation, with brick used as an infill between the wall studs on all the floors - sort of like insulation. It creates a very sturdy home that feels more like a brownstone than a wood frame. I suspect that's why it has survived so well since 1860 when it was built. The house is covered with clapboard and has a porch, so it looks like some of the pre-civil war homes.

And I was surprised recently when one of the sister homes sold for almost $1.9M. I guess folks really are paying premium for these houses. We love our space and have no plans to move.

Posted by: walester at December 1, 2009 5:03 PM

« Weekday Events Open Thread »

November 30, 2009

In Praise of Wood-Frame Houses

Trackback Pings

Comments

Post a comment

Latest Restaurant Additions