House of the Day: 430 10th Street Revisited

Hey, let me take the target of 11217's back.

I was going to go see this place Sunday. Scary that this place is at the fringe of "reasonably priced" in Brooklyn. But that's where we are even today.

My wife and I love it in Bkln, wanted to live there for sure. But owning a brownstown was a semi-must. Or at least a 1400-1500 SF condo w/ serious outdoor space

So instead, we went back for a 2nd visit to what's almost certainly our new home:

3 story, single family federalist brownstone with central air and fully renovated with classic charm, crown moldings up the wazoo, jet-air jacuzzi tub in one BA, full wall to wall standing shower in the other...Fully renovated kitchen wirh a sweet 15x20 foot deck off it spilling into a perfectly landscaped, low maintenance 45-foot deep yard.

(Having 2 meticulous gay guys as the current owners is a BIG plus BTW if you're looking)

For this, we'll pay $965K off a peak comp of $1.3 million in 2007/2008 for identical brownstones sold on the same block. One of the best blocks in this hood. Probably top 3 or 4.

Building of this quality I estimate at asking a hyped $1.4-$1.6 million in park slope.

The catch? It's Hoboken. Snicker away. But you know what?

After 1 year of looking, we were so sick of the ridiculously overpriced properties in gentrified Park Slope it makes us ill. The $20K a year in taxes I'll save as a business owner cures a lot of ills. As does getting to live in a gorgeous building on a 100-foot deep lot.

So there's the value if anyone's looking for pristine brownstones for under a mil. 15 minutes from midtown, 25 from downtown.

Put down $235K, to get your loan to the max jumbo-conforming limit of $729K and get a ridiculously low 5.25% FIVE-POINT-TWO-FIVE PERCENT!!! 4Gs a month payment.....

And that smacks of a pretty amazing deal at the expense of brooklynites laughing

Thank you and good night, and please, feel free to send some snipes. Brooklyn real estate can really go eff itself. So Overpriced. I'll sit on the several hundred thousand dollars I just saved myself and use it to buy something else when things REALLY fall apart.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 2:42 PM

Thanks DIBS...i'll post the link once I have a contract....

So yes, a perfectly pointed federal brick front, I'm not gay so I lump em all together ;)

And man, these guys really did pour a ton into this place (owned it for 10 yrs). Slide out drawers in every single kitchen cabinet, even one of those silly spice rack slide-out things. Granite kitchen breakfast bar, one of those pull-off faucet things. They Even put a custom-built-in murphy bed in the guest BR. Oy vey!

Also has 2 working original fireplaces.

The price is insane vs the inanity we were looking at in Bklyn. When a couple w/ 550K min the bank and 300K in income isn;t really set up to buy anything other than a junk brownstone at best, somethign is wrong. We got tired waiting to find out what.

A little narrow at 15-feet, but it's laid out perfectly, and after a year and a half looking, including 60-places in brooklyn, this thing is such an amazing alternative to all the aggravation, and a super high quality piece of real estate.

I'll deal with the frat-boy mentality downtown there and keep my daughter away from them best I can.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 2:55 PM

DIBS--I love the federal bricks better as well, I'm with you)

Wadser,

There comes a pt where you might not get that dramatically reduced price anytime soon. As inflated as I believe NYRE to be, I got sick of waiting. A year and a half looking (originally hoboken, then a year in brooklyn) made us realize that. A real estate correction takes 5-7 years typically, and I'm not willing to wait that long.

The part that makes it an even better deal is that the loan is at 5.25% for the max single-family rate of 729K. That is an insane bargain, and .5-.75% below the loan once you get over $729,750. Huge savings. We saw a place we really like, and financing it will literally never be cheaper.

Unless you're willing to put down another 100+K, you'll never get that loan in brooklyn now. I decided holding onto additional cash in this environment was a smart idea.

Identical properties on this block were selling at $1.275-$1.325 million in late 2007 early 2008, the peak. And this house is in pristine, and I mean pristine condition. Almost nothing to do.

So we got it at 25% off peak, and with a dirt, dirt cheap loan that will save us thousands. Maybe not the value I was looking for, but the value I will take nonetheless.

Alop, since I run my own business, NYS Unincorporated Business Tax takes another 4% on top of the 4% city tax. I'll include the $20K in annual savings I project as part of the value.

Everything's a trade off. After 18 hard months of grueling looking and hoping, this trade off felt 100% right.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 3:15 PM

MFN, what are you doing about schools for your daughter? Are you sending your daughter to private school?
---------------------

Ultimately, I think so, but here's the details:

Related to this, more on the value: Hoboken has state funded free preschool. My daughter starts pre-school next fall. So 3 years of saving about $10-15K a year (post tax). I'll take that every day of the week.

The deal w/ Hoboken schools is that until about 3rd or 4th grade, they're pretty good actually. Then people historically have moved out.

But I think possibly you're going to see many of the recent parents there stay for many reasons, so we'll see.

There are 2 charter schools. Not a ton of seats, but you can get in, and if you do, you're golden.

The income tax I'm saving will pay for much of the school, if not all, anyway. And honestly, unless you get a prime school district, which means REALLY paying up the nose in Brooklyn, you're likely looking at private school anyway.

ROB, not ashamed of the 'boken. Originally from Fort Lee and Edgewater as a kid. It's just not nearly as interesting culturally as Brooklyn. But it's very family friendly and has a nice walking vibe.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 3:21 PM

"public schools in new jersey are GREAT and GOOD even in the hardcore ghettoes because in NJ property tax is evaluated fairly"

ROB, unfortunately, in Hoboken, that's not the case, they're pretty bad (or typically have been). But there are 2 charters.

That's one of the drags of Hoboken, you get socked w/ NJ property taxes, but the municipality doesn't have the same quality the awful suburbs have.

Just another trade off.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 3:24 PM

Thanks TL...

Italian pasteries and deli meats is one cultural upside for Hoboken, no doubt.

There's a Portuguese Piri Piri place that just opened there, which feels like a cultural awakening for the nabe, so I'll cross my fingers.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 3:34 PM

"You're only paying -26% off that peak comp. Pretty consistent with where we are in Brooklyn. "
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Agreed, but BHO, I was not willing to continue to wait (who knows how long) to *maybe* get another 10-15% off peak. And post 25% peak in brooklyn is still an INSANE amount of money, and nothing I would consider. I suspect brooklyn falls harder than Hoboken, which is only a one-square mile town. There's very very little brownstone inventory.

Rates are just so damn low, and getting below the max conforming limit was a big hope for me (saving abt 500 bucks a month in interest by doing so). So you pull the trigger.

Monthly payment is $4K ($3200 of it is deductible for the first 7-10 years), plus $1K prop tax (40% deductible). So you're looking at post-tax $3,100 or so to own this place. Way less stress to own, and 15-ft wide or not, after 12 years in a 600SF rent stabilized apt, believe me, it's plenty large.

I do think it's going to drop more, fully expect it. But in the end it's a very high quality property on a prime block. We're in it for 10 years at least, so not so concerned.

In the meantime, we saved ourselves a very serious sum of non-retirement cash that we can deploy elsewhere if bargains appear.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 3:53 PM

Antidope:

It's about willingness to wait. Moving to pay rent for 1 or 2 years to see how things shake out makes little sense when I'm getting 20K a year in taxes saved and buying 25% below peak. Oh, and 3 years of free preschool saving me about 30-45K. If that's throwing in the towel, then so be it. But it's clear I'm nowhere near peak buy, and for the trade-off to live in a 3-story brownstone w/ a 60-foot backyard and deck, call me Roberto Duran.

If you know one thing about me (and you know little), you know I did my research. I had 11 years of every single and multi-family home sale in Hoboken printed out for me a year ago. I know where the best blocks are, and I know what people paid for every property that was transacted in that time. So, yeah, I have *kind-a* seen the comps in this nabe.

The 3 most recent sales at peak on the same block in question are literally the same exact specs, and considering the place we're looking at has a full renovation on every floor, I'll assume they are equal quality at best.

Plus their mortgages are probably 1.5-2% higher vs comp 30-year fixed if you want to throw that into the cost of ownership at peak.

No delusion that this is a prime Bklyn townhouse, so not calling it a Benz, calling it a way more sensible value vs the absurdity of brooklyn real estate.

I do like however that I'm the a-hole, when if you look, I've never instigated any personal attack, just been pretty blunt abt how overpriced brooklyn is. Been pretty unsentimental about the US economy and financial steroids. But there's always someone like you willing to throw a swing, and when they do I throw back hard, I throw back smug. And yeah, then I *am* knid of an assh*le about it.

And re: the bank statement info, none of you know me, have never met or seen me, so I consider it not rude at all to share. It's information anyone in a similar financial situation can use to help their own thinking.

I tell all my personal friends I'm having financial trouble and ask if they can loan me money so I don't seem like such a dou*hebag.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 4:18 PM

Yeah antidope, why the meanness? I don't get why folks have to be so nasty on here. And OK, so MFN shared his financial info, but this is an anonymous list - very different than discussing that stuff point blank at a dinner party. What difference does it really make when we're all anonymous? Frankly, I find that kind of candor revealing, and appreciate when people are forthright.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at November 9, 2009 4:17 PM

If he weren't such an assh*le, I'd say we should feel badly for him because he had it rough growing up, and I'd probably mean it....;)

And thanks for seeing my pt on financials Miss Muffet. He's so upset about it because Antidope, ironically = just another hater.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 4:21 PM

Yes, I am still a bear. I'll just be a far less frustrated one.

Dope was just waiting for one to crack so he could snipe.

Too bad hater, going to live in a fu*king sweet townhouse my little daughter will run around like crazy in and giggle her head off. I'll be having cocktails on my deck soaking in my super-deep backyard.

And I spent less than half my non-retirement savings to do it.

Hate on that.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 4:30 PM

She enters at 2 (2.5), kindergarten starts at 5, correct. So 2-3, 3-4, 4-5...

Might be 2 years though, Mom's in charge of the school details.

Still, I'll take the savings for 2 years!

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 4:32 PM

This is a good time to buy real estate. I agree with MFN. Even though it is probable that prices will come down further, the dollar will drop even further. Pretty soon all the dollars we have socked away in the bank or in our 401K's won't be enough to buy us socks. Better to put money into real estate and durable goods. At least when push comes to shove you will have a place to live and something to drive.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at November 9, 2009 4:23 PM

Minard,

This also played HEAVILY into my thinking...if Inflation picks up heavily, RE will not come down nearly as hard. That's just another one of these ridiculous maybes in a steroid-induced economy. Just too hard to know how it will play out.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 4:34 PM

"he was the jackal laughing at all the idiot buyers."

Wasn;t laughing at them. You really are an idiot, Antidope. And RE the bank statement shit, this is an anonymous blog. You're just a hater, my friend. It's general information. I would never hang out with you, but if I did, I wouldn;t tell you how much I earn.

I was saying that people who bought in the last few years thought they were probably buying low...but that the market is still correcting.

This was always said to point out people who try to hype the market...I don;t believe I've ever called a buyer stupid, though others have. They jsut overpaid. My goal was to knockdown the Team Bull argument.

I remain a Bear on real estate and the US economy.

I am willing to overpay some here because of how much money I am saving in taxes and pre-school. 50-70K in the first 2 years alone.

And my life will be sop much happier now that I don;t have to visit real estate blogs with miserable dipsh*ts like you. Honestly. backyard aside, that may be the single biggest quality of life improvement I just bought myself.

Godnight.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at November 9, 2009 4:40 PM