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November 5, 2009

House of the Day: 119 Fort Greene Place

119-Fort-Greene-Place-1109.jpg
Other than the exposed brick on the parlor floor, this brownstone at 119 Fort Greene Place in Fort Greene has a nice feel to it. Plenty of original details, nice width (21 feet) and an extention; we'd be surprised if you could actually get $2,800 a month for the garden rental but it's probably not far off. The asking price is $1,995,000. Not insane if you factor in the expected 10% discount in this market.
119 Fort Greene Place [Douglas Elliman] GMAP P*Shark





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Comments

Yet again, asking $2 million, and they can't afford some decent pictures? The limited pictures hardly showcase the "tons of original details throughout", so, based on what little I'm seeing, I'm not impressed. (Not to mention there isn't a single en suite bath or an island in the kitchen.) I do like the center stairs and 1/2 bath on the Parlor Floor though.

Posted by: CarrollGardened at November 5, 2009 1:27 PM

So... everyone thinks I'm some cheap/poor bastard that doesn't recognize the "market" forces etc. Here's an example of a house that makes sense!

It's priced a bit high I think -- $1.7 or $1.8 would make more sense to me.

Now, first, this is a place I could NEVER afford in my wildest dreams -- but it actually seems to make sense. The rental income is something "extra" -- it's a garden unit that doesn't interfere with your full three stories above. In other words, the proportions make sense. Even though the $2400 a month or whatever for the rental barely makes a dent in the expenses -- it doesn't really matter. You're paying $1.8-$2.0 million for a 3-story house.

This is definitely for a rich person (my definition of rich -- I know most of the readers here think a $2 million house is typical and very "middle class"), but it's not trying to be something it's not. Like the House of the Day yesterday on Windsor Place -- that was trying to be an "investment" or even a rental business property. That was stupid. Didn't make fiscal sense (regardless of the "forced savings"). This makes sense.

The only thing that bugs me is the 0.3% tax rate -- though the $5400 tax bill is FAR more appropriate than the $1200 tax bill we've seen on other big houses like this.

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 1:34 PM

Why is this zoned for PS 38 over in Boerum Hill -- to put the "Dodgers" into the kids as they run across both Flatbush and Atlantic going to school?

Posted by: Boerumresident at November 5, 2009 1:37 PM

Not me, tybur. I love you man! (No homo)

Posted by: CarrollGardened at November 5, 2009 1:39 PM

Curious -- this is one of like 20 block in all of brooklyn that doesn't have Google Street View images...

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 1:40 PM

I like this house and think we may go see it. (hubby sighs and throws his hands up at my continued interest at this point..."but we STILL have to sell THIS home FIRST *eye roll* which you don't seem to want to have to do *followed by second eye roll*" or "What is this for you, a hobby? I'm not looking at anymore homes until we put THIS one up first"... followed by MY *eye roll*. Of course its a hobby, Duh! ;)

No, seriously. I think I'm mustering up the ovum to list our place again. I'll have to clean like mad and store half of our stuff and pretend we don't have little boys, and probably take a 30% cut to what we thought we might get when we listed in summer 2008, but life's life.

Posted by: Nokilissa at November 5, 2009 1:45 PM

t6 - The "stealth mode" feature on google maps is part of the high price.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at November 5, 2009 1:45 PM

quote:
I'm mustering up the ovum


:-/

now ive heard it all

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 5, 2009 1:49 PM

Well Rob, I haven't got any balls you know!

Posted by: Nokilissa at November 5, 2009 1:54 PM

"I'm mustering up the ovum"

ROFL. That's actually a great line, Noki!

Posted by: CarrollGardened at November 5, 2009 2:00 PM

Next PLUSA party theme...Mustering Up the Ovum.

That's just gold baby!

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at November 5, 2009 2:02 PM

"I'll have to clean like mad and store half of our stuff and pretend we don't have little boys, and probably take a 30% cut to what we thought we might get when we listed in summer 2008, but life's life."

And hope you don't get 'HODT'... lol

Posted by: denton at November 5, 2009 2:04 PM

Noklissa, what price did you think you could get and at what price would you put it back on the market?

Posted by: stevieb at November 5, 2009 2:04 PM

Oh yeah, baby! I just love a Fort Greene listing.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at November 5, 2009 2:07 PM

Oh DitmasSnark -- Is it like when One Observatory Circle was blurred out on the satellite view when Cheney lived there? It's visible again!

But, for some reason, the Google Street View cart can't get any closer to the house than this... http://bk.ly/Wc Seems to be a large barricade and a military guard booth in the way.

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 2:08 PM

Loo on parlour floor, check
Room for senior in garden apt, check
I actually like the brick wall here, usually don't.
All in all lovely.

Though not sure about the $2800 for the garden apt, seems a little high for these times.

Posted by: DeLepp at November 5, 2009 2:08 PM

The location is nice and convenient, but the school zone is terrible in that corner of FG. Who wants to cross major highways with little kids every day?
Also, the reno is a bit dated if not tired. Or maybe the pictures are grainy and dark.
Anyway, not to start a neighborhood war, but there are better houses at this price point, either a better school or better renovation.

Posted by: Maly at November 5, 2009 2:08 PM

"extention"

You mean extinction like they're not building anymore?

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at November 5, 2009 2:09 PM

Pictures suck, I agree. The exposed brick needs a plaster job. I know a few very talented illegal immigrants who do spectacular work.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 5, 2009 2:10 PM

Anybody know what top price was in Ft greene???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 5, 2009 2:22 PM

We're in that weird price point place where we can't sell at stratospheric/super luxury prices, but we're not in the category of those homes selling well and within 10% of peak either. Its a really large loft we bought in Manhattan in 1999. We renovated the whole place in 2005. So we're one of those potential buyers most on Brownstoner don't take into account when figuring the numbers.

Posted by: Nokilissa at November 5, 2009 2:23 PM

Can I ask you guys how it works with garden access in this set-up? Does the owner share the garden with the tenant? And allow gardening, entertaining, etc by the tenant? Or does the owner give up access to the garden?

Posted by: denton at November 5, 2009 2:25 PM

Noklissa - if you have a really large loft, why do you want to sell at all?

Posted by: Miss Muffett at November 5, 2009 2:25 PM

denton...I have a deck on the parlour floor so I use that and my tenant has the area below for their use. Even if they are out there I don't see tham as they are under the deck. The rest of the yard is basically landscaped to look at and enjoy.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 5, 2009 2:28 PM

Depends on how you want to set it up Denton. I've seen places where the owners do not give the ground floor tenants garden access, others where they do. Often if they do, they might fence off the area under the deck area so each person can have privacy (i.e. owners not looking in your windows when they are in the back yard, but still having their private garden). That set up is the best imo, it gives the tenants a small patio/garden to sit outside and barbeque etc. It doesn't work so well if you have a deck on the parlour floor that extends the entire width of the hose though - makes it quite dark for the tenants below...

Posted by: 1842 at November 5, 2009 2:35 PM

That's a really nice house. Re: exposed brick, covering that up is easy. It is a nice size, maybe not the best street in FG, but it's nice and close to the best retail stuff, easy walk to Atlantic Ave sub or G or C and it looks in good shape and as though you wouldn't have to do anything serious to it. I am just thinking of the other houses in the area -- I think it the price they are asking is off, maybe 1.6/ 1.65 is more like it.

Posted by: donatella at November 5, 2009 2:36 PM

As for the price in this place, I don't think it is that far off. I'd say 1.825 or so would be appropriate and maybe achievable.

Posted by: 1842 at November 5, 2009 2:36 PM

"30% cut"

Betta than fitty, Nokilissa. Get it while the getting is...okay.

The garden rental has an indoor outhouse. That really sucks for $2,800/mo. That's duplex dough.

But this is the ideal config. No shoulder rubbing with tenant unless your boiler goes out.

Uh oh! I just checked GMAP. "Wrong" side of Fulton. The widget might get this one. $1.535M at comment press time. That's gotta be -25% peak comps, no?

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at November 5, 2009 2:37 PM

I think 1.6 would be an absolute steal and quite a bit lower than I think it will go for, but who knows...

Posted by: 1842 at November 5, 2009 2:38 PM

My buddy has a brownstone on 3rd Place in Carroll Gardens. His garden-level apartment rental doesn't have "garden rights" -- though they do have a exit door and he's extended privileges to the tenant (i.e., if she wants to have friends over once in a while and use the garden, she just needs to make sure there's no conflict.), but it's no a privilege provided for in her lease.

Otherwise, they have a big deck (like DIBS) that covers that exit. It's not high enough really for the tenant to have anything underneath though.

The garden is for the owner... the tenant can look at it through their bedroom windows and dream :-)

Posted by: tybur6 at November 5, 2009 2:38 PM

BHO, that block is quite nice if you're familiar with it. It's between Fulton and Hanson Place.

Posted by: 1842 at November 5, 2009 2:39 PM

"Anybody know what top price was in Ft greene???"

Two and a half on the "right" side of Fulton, up to Willoughby and east of this street.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at November 5, 2009 2:41 PM

For a brownstone similar to this? I'm not sure but about 2.5MM in FG seems like the highest I've seen. Some other mansions went for more, but their were unique buildings, not rowhouses.

Posted by: 1842 at November 5, 2009 2:45 PM

Then my guess that the frame house at the corner of Adelphia & Lafayette could fetch $1.2MM or so when completely restored is not far off.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 5, 2009 2:47 PM

"So we're one of those potential buyers most on Brownstoner don't take into account when figuring the numbers."

No, you're accounted for, Noki. There's no decoupling in Manhattan and there's no endless supply of you at prevailing prices.

"BHO, that block is quite nice if you're familiar with it. It's between Fulton and Hanson Place."

Yeah, I'm familiar, 1842. The "right" side of Fulton is quite nicer (the park). It's all relative.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at November 5, 2009 2:48 PM

Miss Muffett,

because we have grown tired of the very busy part of downtown Manhattan in which we life, the traffic, construction, over-development, crowds, the Gaps, banks, K-Marts, Starbucks and American Apparel's being the only stores able to afford rent anymore... I'm tired of being nearly mowed over by aggressive cabs and trucks every few days with my kids. I'm tired of yelling over jackhammers on many corners. we have no outdoor space, no dog and no sense of community or neighborhood. We have small children who we want to be able to trick or treat at places other than the corner delis, cleaners and restaurants. We'd like them to be able to run in a hose in the summers! I'd love a small garden with tomatoes and some herbs. Hubby wants a grill so badly he practically burns the apt. down every month or so in a sorry attempt at searing a steak. We have 3 bedrooms, but they're all taken. I'd love my parents and in-laws to be able to stay on something other than an aerobed in the family room when they come to visit. We want a damn dog too. We'd love a stoop, and friendly neighbors, and ball games going on at a park down the block. Mostly, we just love Brooklyn. We just end up there nearly every weekend. With friends, at street fairs, going to the Brooklyn Children's Museum, Red Hook, the zoo, wandering around Park Slope and Ft. Greene...

Do I ramble, or what?

Posted by: Nokilissa at November 5, 2009 2:49 PM

DIBS - "wood frame" versus bonafide brownstone? No. Well, maybe before bottom.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at November 5, 2009 2:52 PM

It's a freestanding house. Many would say it has more character than a brownstone.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 5, 2009 2:57 PM

Noki - If you really can unload for only -10% off, why not sell-rent-buy? 3BR's are rare but you're a big time Manhattanite with mad money to spare after cashing out in "hot" downtown. Seriously.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at November 5, 2009 2:58 PM

I know what you mean BHO, but I actually think this block fo FG Place is better than the one on the north side of Fulton - I'd rather not live beside Brooklyn Tech (not that it would be a problem, but given the choice of the two) - but that's just me.

Posted by: 1842 at November 5, 2009 2:59 PM

Saying and paying are two different things.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at November 5, 2009 3:00 PM

Noki, you need to move to Brooklyn my friend...

Posted by: 1842 at November 5, 2009 3:01 PM

jeez noki, is there anything you DONT want? hahaha

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 5, 2009 3:07 PM

Not much of a sales pitch for your current house, Nokilissa. Hope your area has lots of potential buyers that don't read Brownstoner ...

Posted by: DistractedMom at November 5, 2009 3:08 PM

"because we have grown tired of the very busy part of downtown Manhattan in which we life, the traffic, construction, over-development, crowds, the Gaps,"

Seriously??
Like brooklyn does not have its share of gaps, jackhammers, traffic, etc. You describe a family paradise but a paradise isn't. I would never send my kids to trick or treat torental brownstones, nor play in the streets. You describe a fantasy...

Posted by: bklplebe at November 5, 2009 3:17 PM

there were some 3+mm transactions in fg - i can think of at least 2 of them. 1 on wash park and 1 on south portland. probably were more.

Posted by: dinobot at November 5, 2009 3:18 PM

BTW, The Minsker's got this listing. It moves at usual premium over widget until big banks start collapsing again.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at November 5, 2009 3:21 PM

Ok, not surprised dinobot. I just didn't recall off the top of my head any brownstones breaking 3MM in FG. I remembered a few unique places that qualified as old mansions...

Posted by: 1842 at November 5, 2009 3:22 PM

Noki, don't be bothered by bklplebe, a lot of what you want is here. It's still urban, but much less noisy and congested in the neighborhoods you're considering than where you are in Manhattan. We do the bstone trick or treating, play in the parks, grill outside, the whole deal, an really like it. It's still the big city though...

Posted by: 1842 at November 5, 2009 3:25 PM

"Can I ask you guys how it works with garden access in this set-up? Does the owner share the garden with the tenant? And allow gardening, entertaining, etc by the tenant? Or does the owner give up access to the garden?"

Denton--at least for me the way I have worked it is sharing the garden with my tenants. I think it would be a case by case basis but I went into the process of finding a tenant with the concept that we would get along and share the gardening duties and socialize sometimes and that is the way its worked out. IF I didn't like my tenants so much I would probably keep it to "you guys have your private patio and we have the yard" or whatever but I would much rather have a good relationship and share everything.

Posted by: wasder at November 5, 2009 3:25 PM

My apologies for waxing poetic... too much information, Zip it!

But give me a break DistractedMom. 'Downtown Manhattan' could be anything south of 23rd street to the Battery. I wouldn't venture to guess how many thousands of apartments and homes are for sale in that catchment. I doubt I'm risking a sale by ranting about Manhattan for a moment on a little thread on Brownstoner.

bkplebe, couldn't disagree more. Like I said, we've spent many weekends in Brooklyn with friends and family. One of my best friends lives in the north slope and I've been over dozens of times at all hours and on different days. We've seen no less than 100 brownstones in the last 2 years.

Last weekend we met friends in Park Slope for Halloween trick or treating, and I can assure you we had a ball wandering about, from Brownstone to Brownstone, people decked out everywhere, standing at gates and sitting on stoops, handing out candy and little gifts...I'm not sure why you would ever make such a statement as "I would never send my kids to trick or treat...brownstones".

Of course there are construction spots and traffic, Gaps and franchised stores in Brooklyn. But not to even remotely to the same degree as we have here. You disagree?

Posted by: Nokilissa at November 5, 2009 3:47 PM

It is actually a nice block - there is a half way house one door down from this or might be
next door - but those guys keep to them selves and also a sort of vacant building called "sunday school"???
Lots of foot traffic with folks coming from Target and subway.

Posted by: mimimoo at November 5, 2009 3:48 PM

> I would never send my kids to trick or treat to rental brownstones...

Bitter renters have the sweetest candy.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at November 5, 2009 4:09 PM

noklissa
I am not sure what you are talking about. perhaps the few blocks in good school districts NPS or CG are ok for trick or treating. The rest of brooklyn is nowhere near your fantasy for family or school or trickortreating.

Posted by: bklplebe at November 5, 2009 4:12 PM

Nokilissa:


I, too, live in Manhattan and I share your idealization of brownstone brooklyn.

Posted by: Pigeon at November 5, 2009 4:48 PM

Noki, I hope you find your dream home. You would be an ideal friend and neighbor for anyone. I'm glad we ran into each other in your crowded Manhattan neighborhood, that was a treat!

Jerry Minsky should have waited until this week to read the Italianate articles. He would then know that this house was built in the mid nineteenth century, not at the "height of the late 19th century". Well, at least it has its stoop, unlike next door. I like this block, it's got some great architecture on it, and it's quiet, near the trains, and all that. I personally like SOME exposed brick in the right places, but I think I would cover this up, it's just too much. But that is no big deal, and wouldn't even cost that much. Besides, if you can spring for this place, that isn't a deal breaker. I agree with CarGar, better and more photos. Sheesh.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 5, 2009 4:49 PM

I was actually sort of kidding, Nokilissa. I liked hearing about your neighborhood!
And I kept my mouth zipped about all of the minor annoyances around my old house, and still could not sell it. So it's not like I know anything about anything.
:-/

Posted by: DistractedMom at November 5, 2009 4:52 PM

bklynplebe--I trick or treated in Clinton Hill with my kids and think you have a very sour attitude about the community aspects of Brooklyn. Compared to Manhattan most Brownstone Brooklyn neighborhoods are very attractive when you have kids and want to be able to do stuff outside.

Posted by: wasder at November 5, 2009 4:55 PM

bkpelbe,

You're the one that doesn't know what you're talking about. What noklissa described is exactly my life in Prospect-Lefferts Garden. Including the tomato plants my 6yo decided to grow this summer.

If Bob Marvin is reading I'm sure he can post some pictures of how festive trick or treating was around here last Saturday. It's a great deal of fun because we do know our neighbors. So it's fun to see how the kids that I met when they were babies have grown. Amazing to see how creative & giving my neighbors can be. And refreshing to have another day of just good clean fun with my children, friends & neighbors enjoying what we have. Together.

Posted by: DD at November 5, 2009 5:05 PM

DD

noone in Bklyn likes family. they bring high taxes and expensive amenities. Wherever there is a family area then you are talking about the brooklyn suburb not brooklyn city. No singles means no edginess. No singles means no restaurants and bars. As for prospect lefferts you need to make sure the kids do not take the wrong turn.

Posted by: bklplebe at November 5, 2009 5:25 PM

Sumer is ycomen in,
Loude sing cuckou!
Groweth seed and bloweth meed,
And springth the wode now.
Sing cuckou!

Posted by: DitmasSnark at November 5, 2009 6:03 PM

Noki, all these things do exist in Brooklyn. But as a Brooklynite, I would like to complain about the commute and the difficulty of grocery shopping -- we drive or take the subway to the CSA or the next neighborhood over or to Manhattan for pretty much everything except paper towels. The ideal solution would be to live one block from the Park Slope Food Coop. Except then you'd have to live in Park Slope, of course.

As for this house, the layout is perfect. The look would benefit from strategic upgrades: Plaster over the brick, better light fixtures, get rid of that fan please!, put in a more substantial looking iron stair outside.

Posted by: mopar at November 5, 2009 6:11 PM

Can we get back to the house? Firstly, ain't it just mahvelous to see ole Jerry Minsky again looking so air-brushed and pretty. So the parlor floor isn't doing it for me. The new oak flooring laid on the diagonal, combined with the exposed brick walls, feels very 1980s. I'm also suspicious about the lack of kitchen and bathroom photos. And $2,800 for a one-bed rental seems delusional. We get $1,800 for ours in Prospect Heights (new reno, very nr subways, etc). The location is interesting: it's fantastic if you place a premium on proximity to the subway, shops, restaurants and BAM. But maybe not so hot if you prefer a quieter, more "deeper into the hood" vibe that you tend to get a little further north and east.

Posted by: grand army at November 5, 2009 6:12 PM

Dave,

I think you are right; the frame on adelphi and lafayette should be 1.2 or thereabouts now. I love that house. Those houses are very shallow - like 35 feet at most. The one next door is very pretty.

Posted by: maewest at November 5, 2009 6:24 PM

Dave,

I think you are right; the frame on adelphi and lafayette should be 1.2 or thereabouts now. I love that house. Those houses are very shallow - like 35 feet at most. The one next door is very pretty. And 1.2 would be finished. Now it looks like a big project.

Posted by: maewest at November 5, 2009 6:25 PM

bklplebe,

So you just make this stuff up as you go along? No one in Bklyn likes families? I guess you should tell that to all the families choosing to stay in Bklyn rather than move to the burbs. Something is making us feel welcomed. Most family-friendly neighborhoods in Bklyn that I know of enjoy pretty low taxes. And most have plenty of singles, restaurants & bars. This includes PLG.

As far ensuring that my children don't take a wrong turn, that need would be there whether they lived in PLG, Park Slope or the UES. It's called responsible parenting.

And F.Y.I.

Edgy does not = city and city does not = edgy.

Posted by: DD at November 5, 2009 7:09 PM

come on guys, bkplebe is just trolling and seeing if it can get a rise out of you.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at November 5, 2009 7:25 PM

Update: My bf and I went to see this house on Sunday and started putting together an offer. On Tuesday the agent emailed us to let us know that we were out of luck because it had just been purchased by a wealthy European couple - in CASH! Ridiculous.

Posted by: missbloom at November 13, 2009 10:08 AM

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