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November 4, 2009

House of the Day: 238 Windsor Place

This two-family house at 238 Windsor Place in Windsor Terrace may have a slightly odd mix of old-school and 80s-contemporary aesthetics going on, but at its core it looks like a lovely old house and given that it's got over 3,000 square feet of living space, the price tag of $1,125,000 looks reasonable to us as well. Agree?
238 Windsor Place [Warren Lewis] GMAP P*Shark

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Comments

Nice block, lots of potential here. I think price is reasonable, probably will go for just over $1 million.

Posted by: WTbound at November 4, 2009 1:22 PM

Crummy layout and there are really only 2000 finished SF.

This will close for just under a million clams.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at November 4, 2009 1:28 PM

The problem with these big long houses is all that dark, dead space in the middle, and the English basement is cave-like. At least in a 3 story townhouse (or better yet 4 story), you have more height to bring in some sun, and I think the shallower houses are preferable in that you don't have such a huge dark middle area that is kind of depressing.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at November 4, 2009 1:31 PM

I agree that the layout is crummy. It's more of a rental layout in the two units and as an investment property it's way over priced.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 4, 2009 1:37 PM

A house supposedly worth over a million dollars and it's finished like a $500/month rental in a college town... nice.

Oh, I mean. What a wonderful opportunity. A beautiful home in a great location and your mortgage is dramatically reduced because of the great potential for rental income upstairs!

Posted by: tybur6 at November 4, 2009 1:38 PM

In some ways reminds me of the house I bought and gutted. You can be sure those floors are not as nice as they are in the pic, and you have a rabbit's warren of rooms. You'll have to add 300k to turn this into a nice single family. But a nice exterior and a nice block. I'll say 975 takes it.

Posted by: denton at November 4, 2009 1:43 PM

I agree that it has potential. Not sure of the price because it clearly needs work removing the mirrors, what I hope is wall-to-wall carpeting over nice wood floors, and some consolidation of the warren of little rooms on each floor (perfect for making en suite baths).

Posted by: CarrollGardened at November 4, 2009 1:46 PM

I think it's kinda cute
it's on a nice block
I agree - under 1 million gets the deal done

Posted by: gemini10 at November 4, 2009 1:47 PM

It's 1,900 square feet, not 3,000 (unless we're suddenly calling basements "living space"). And it needs major updating. And it only really works as two one bedroom apartments. 950K.

Posted by: shillstoner at November 4, 2009 2:01 PM

Shillstoner, it's 2,700 square feet... counting the back yard as living space. Do you remember the guys camping in Bushwick? Yet ANOTHER great income opportunity to lower your mortgage costs!!

Posted by: tybur6 at November 4, 2009 2:06 PM

That basement is more than 50% above grade then it's legal spce. It looks to be. That said, it's too dark but it might work for shillstoner's formal dining room bucause that's where they have to be.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 4, 2009 2:08 PM

Oh, DIBS, made me laugh.... At best it is an English Basement, which is not to be confusied with a Garden Floor above the basement. A garden floor is living space. A basement isn't. A garden however...

Posted by: shillstoner at November 4, 2009 2:17 PM

shillstoner, you are wrong. it's legal livable space. You implied that it was not. Whether it's 50% above grade or 70% it's still no place for a formal DR.

It's the same thing as where your formal DR and kitchen are, maybe just a foot or two lower.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 4, 2009 2:26 PM

The 80s are back anyway.

Posted by: mopar at November 4, 2009 2:31 PM

1,050,000

Posted by: MR at November 4, 2009 2:34 PM

Sure doesn't look 50% above grade in the pics, DIBS. Floorplan shows a single open space and columns. It would take a lot to make this "living space", and shouldn't be counted as such in a psf calculation. Also, since when is 20' "extra-wide'. The vast majority of brownstones are on 20 foot wide lots. Nice block tho, for sure.

Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at November 4, 2009 2:35 PM

3,192 Sq Ft according to propertyshark. it is legal, livable space. people like shillstoner can have a formal dining room down in the basement. Ooooppppss, I mean Garden Floor.

No further discussion on the sq footage, thank you.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 4, 2009 2:40 PM

"It's the same thing as where your formal DR and kitchen are, maybe just a foot or two lower. "

DIBS, I feel like you're special needs or Aspberger's or something: must we have the same conversation over and over? There is no boiler or water heater on my garden floor. Those are in the basement, a whole floor below. What my garden floor does have, however, is original wainscotting, plaster moldings, gorgeous original parquet floors, and a built in buttler's pantry with copper sinks. Not what one finds in a basement.

As for this basement--it is a basement with little basement windows, no details, and a boiler. Part of it can be converted into a rec room or a screening room, but it is not living space and does not count in the square footage. All clear now?

Posted by: shillstoner at November 4, 2009 2:45 PM

shillstoner, pull your head out of your ass...propertyshark does not get the square footage wrong. Despite the fact that it doesn't have nice wainscoting and a copper butler's sink, it's 3,192 sq. feet. Christ, how thick are you???

I don't give a rats ass what's on your garden level. All I know is that all of them are too dark for formal entertaining. Get it?????

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 4, 2009 2:52 PM

And my garden level has wainscoting, original parquet floors and plaster crown moldings as well as pocket shutters and oak builtins and fireplace.

It's called the rental unit.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 4, 2009 2:55 PM

I also had a Garden Floor and a basement "a full floor below", but the Garden Floor was dark, and the Parlor Floor was much better suited for my formal dining room. The Garden Floor was perfectly fine for bedrooms and my den/home office overlooking the garden itself.

Posted by: CarrollGardened at November 4, 2009 2:56 PM

English basements aren't all that dreadful, depending on how you use it. I actually lived in an apt in London that was a giant studio (with separate EIK and private garden) that wasn't half bad. All the walls were removed from the basement level... Interior wasn't exactly bathed in sunlight, but it was bright enough and rather spacious. A finished English basement makes for a great laundry room/office/playroom/home theater combo, depending on your taste. Or a rental unit, like the kind I occupied in my twenties. There is opportunity here, but I agree - price is still too high. $999k.

Posted by: Architerrorist at November 4, 2009 2:59 PM

"propertyshark does not get the square footage wrong."

Hello? That is the single silliest thing you've ever said. You can check Propertyshark for identical houses and they'll count the basement sguare footage in one house and won't count it in the next. They are not actually visiting each house and making a judgement--they simply get the number form the city records, and we all know how dependable those are.

"I don't give a rats ass what's on your garden level."

Good to know, since you seem rather obsessed with it.

Posted by: shillstoner at November 4, 2009 2:59 PM

Well it's propertyshark and the listing against you. Where are your facts to back u your claim??? You're like a stubborn child.

I'm not obsessed with your garden level. You were the one that insisted how wonderful it was when we first started debating the issue. I just call you out on entertaining guests in the basement instead of the parlour level. Countless books on architecture always state that in these homes "the parlour level was always the grandest as that's where guests are received and entertained."

But you are right and all the architecture books are wrong.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 4, 2009 3:05 PM

"Well it's propertyshark and the listing against you. Where are your facts to back u your claim??? You're like a stubborn child."

The flooplan. But if you prefer to trust the realtor and the city records over what you can see before you in the flooplan, go ahead.

Posted by: shillstoner at November 4, 2009 3:28 PM

I don't give a rats ass what's on your garden level. All I know is that all of them are too dark for formal entertaining. Get it?????
-dibs

Dibs, my garden level is about 5ft above ground. you walk up steps to get to the garden floor and top floor window views tree tops. all i'm saying is not all gardens are dark. we entertain on the garden all of the time and always get comments on how bright it is. our parlor is the formal living and dining but nothing wrong with entertaining on the garden. it all depends on your space.

that said - don't know this area, not sure how much it's worth.

Posted by: bkny at November 4, 2009 3:32 PM

"Well it's propertyshark and the listing against you. Where are your facts to back u your claim??? You're like a stubborn child."

The flooplan. But if you prefer to trust the realtor and the city records over what you can see before you in the flooplan, go ahead.

Posted by: shillstoner at November 4, 2009 3:28 PM

Maybe it's the addition & multiplication where you're stumped, then.

Apparently you, and no others, can see that the basement is less than 50% above grade.

Admit when you're wrong.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 4, 2009 3:32 PM

"Not sure of the price because it clearly needs work removing the mirrors" - did you really mean removing entirely or just relocating to ceiling? It would be a waste just to throw out.
I also think will take too much to convert to better usage.
Has to be less than $1m to sell.

Posted by: Petebklyn at November 4, 2009 3:33 PM

bkny...I've never seen a place in brooklyn where the garden level is 5 steps above grade. I assume your next higher floor is not a parlour level and this is not a brownstone. No???

The parlour level is usually defined as the level at the top of the front steps or stoop. I'd be interested in a pic of this configuration.

Yes, I agree totally...it's all about the level of available light. Most garden levels are one or two steps below grade. The one in this house is more than that but is still legal and yes, it has to be much darker.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 4, 2009 3:40 PM

DIBS, it seems to be obvious to pretty much everyone but you. And I certainly will admit when I'm wrong. That just hasn't happened yet.

Posted by: shillstoner at November 4, 2009 3:55 PM

Usually in Brooklyn when realtor say english basement (as in this case) they are more than 50% below grade level...can be made to be living space -just not legal bedroom or separate apt. This is where we see 'rec room' and such.
Different than when have 'garden level' - with a basement underneath.

Posted by: Petebklyn at November 4, 2009 3:56 PM

Well shilly, contrary to both the listing where it is described twice, and propertyshark, you would know better.

Warren Lewis is not the type of broker that would misrepresent this place.

You have presented no convincing evidence that the two of them are wrong.

When you find some, come back and argue the facts, not your impression of what they might be.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 4, 2009 4:04 PM

Obviously the best use of that lower level would be a Thunderdome where shillstoner and DIBS can duke it out.

Two Brownstoners enter. One Brownstoner leaves...

Posted by: DitmasSnark at November 4, 2009 4:19 PM

It'd be an easy take down with shillstoner in his period appropriate costume...those high heeled boots with sterling silver buckles, his butler holding the gauzes for his wounds.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 4, 2009 4:23 PM

so we seem to be in agreement that it's too deep, too dark, not big enough, too big, too expensive, just right and needs work. ;)

Posted by: raphael9 at November 4, 2009 4:43 PM

And it must be infested with sink bugs.

Posted by: tybur6 at November 4, 2009 5:03 PM

DIBS, property shark definitely gets SF wrong, frequently. I live in a row of nearly identical limestones, and the footage on property shark is allover the map. Many, many 2 stories with english basements like this one are listed at 2000sf.

Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at November 4, 2009 5:07 PM

I agree, Raphael9, that there are many divergent views. But that can be interesting and sometimes informative.

For instance, I never thought anyone would feel that "big long houses [are undesireable because they have] all that dark, dead space in the middle." I like long houses. Or, at least I think I do. (I'll have to reconsider this when I'm next looking at a house).

Posted by: Pigeon at November 4, 2009 5:14 PM

"It'd be an easy take down with shillstoner in his period appropriate costume...those high heeled boots with sterling silver buckles, his butler holding the gauzes for his wounds."

Anytime, ensuite lover.

Posted by: shillstoner at November 4, 2009 5:46 PM

This is NOT a 1M< house cmom Warren Lewis
crappy layout....railroad style floor-thru's ugh and DARK
overpriced, needs work...updating
$899k

Posted by: tjj at November 4, 2009 9:12 PM

This is NOT a $1M house cmom Warren Lewis
crappy layout....railroad style floor-thru's ugh and DARK
overpriced, needs work...updating
$899k

Posted by: tjj at November 4, 2009 9:12 PM

This is NOT a $1M house cmom Warren Lewis
crappy layout....railroad style floor-thru's ugh and DARK
overpriced, needs work...updating
$899k

Posted by: tjj at November 4, 2009 9:12 PM

A garden level is definitely more light-filled (if the front of the house faces South) and more like a *real* room than an English basement but the E-basement is great for rooms like an open layout family room and tv/screening room. We love ours at night. Without big windows looking right onto the sidewalk where people are walking by just a few feet away, like one has with a garden level, we don't feel like we're in a fishbowl on display in the evenings. There's less sidewalk noise coming in too with smaller windows. Also you can't look only at the size of the windows when determining grade. If the front platform of a house is elevated the tops of the windows are actually the same height as some garden level windows. In our house, the E-basement is only a couple steps below the sidewalk level.

Posted by: traditionalmod at November 5, 2009 8:33 AM

« Co-op of the Day: 32 Willow Place, #9 Streetlevel: New Cafe Opening on 6th Avenue »

November 4, 2009

House of the Day: 238 Windsor Place

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