« Development Watch: 527 Lincoln Place Tuesday Blogwrap »

November 3, 2009

Closing Bell: Gentrification Indicators

Over on Nostrand Park, they're trying to put together a list of indicators that your neighborhoods being gentrified. The author suggests three (including coffee shops and blogs) and luckily no one's mentioned flea markets yet. Other suggestions?
Photo by rymerster

Trackback Pings

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/12130

Comments

Organic milk, stella artois, and diet soda at the bodega.

Posted by: Heather at November 3, 2009 4:04 PM

white people.

Posted by: dead sanford at November 3, 2009 4:07 PM

White legs like the ones in the pic!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:12 PM

Asshats drinking with straws.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:13 PM

Subaru wagons and Boston Red Sox hats.

Posted by: buttermilk channel at November 3, 2009 4:13 PM

fresh direct trucks / piles of fresh direct boxes on recycling day

Posted by: CG_ups at November 3, 2009 4:13 PM

Trendy bar/restaurant.

Posted by: Arkady at November 3, 2009 4:15 PM

only giedos drink Stella

and only white trash drinks diet soda.

so those are both out.

the real answer is "people moving in who have more money than you do"

Posted by: Santa at November 3, 2009 4:16 PM

Muffins. And muffin tops.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:16 PM

noise complaints, chronic snitching, real bodegas replaced by overpriced fauxdegas, no cheap 40 ounces, cigarettes overpriced by 1-2 dollars, terrible street art, annoying pedestrian malls, i can go on and on and on and on and on.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 4:17 PM

LOL @ the muffins and muffin tops. SO true!

i forgot to add bike lanes and neighborhood specific blogs (lol)

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 4:19 PM

"Asshats drinking with straws."

i completely disagree. in the hood everyone drinks everything through a straw, be it grape soda or colt 45.

i'm gonna go with "green" general store, like that stupid one on myrtle and waverly. or what about a mac repair shop? wine bar? vintage shoe emporium? vespa dealership? bowling alley?

Posted by: randolph at November 3, 2009 4:19 PM

RANDI is spot ON!

normally i drink 40s, but if im drinking thru a can i use a straw :)

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 4:21 PM

rob, i like our little love affair today.

Posted by: randolph at November 3, 2009 4:22 PM

Roti joints and barber shops replaced by gourmet hot dog joints and dog grooming stores.

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 3, 2009 4:22 PM

gastropubs. smart cars. zipcar. more cops to protect the gentrifiers. coffeeshops. health food stores. people complaining about lack of bike lanes and loud church music.

Posted by: BrooklynZoo at November 3, 2009 4:22 PM

ugh. this thread and all the reasons already states is why i am so uncomfortable living in the color of my own skin :(

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 4:22 PM

actually i've been thinking about this as the new yuppie palace opened for business next door. it seems that a lot of the old timers are much more apt to start talking on the sidewalk etc, while a lot of the newcomers tend to keep to themselves. not really an actual physical thing like a shop but more of an attitude to the neighborhood.

also when i first moved, people would jog in regular clothes. lately it seems like most of the joggers wear spandex type contraptions. that seems like gentrification, and it is bad.

Posted by: CG_ups at November 3, 2009 4:23 PM

Fewer people say "Hello" to each other on the street!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:25 PM

spandex bike pants are bad too. i don't need to see people's junk or lady junk. *shudder*

Posted by: CG_ups at November 3, 2009 4:26 PM

What's a "geido?"

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:27 PM

Pork rinds are replaced with organic snacks at the Bodega. Sometimes friendly bodega clerks are replaced by waif-like girl with bad hair and attitude.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:29 PM

ha sorry typo- guido.

an young Italian gentleman with sonic hair and tribal tattoos.

also alot of this stuff is just old people complaining about the 21st century.

Posted by: Santa at November 3, 2009 4:31 PM

Stella and diet soda are only the harbingers. Once real gentrification sets in, they will vanish too, to be replaced by artisanal brands made without high fructose corn syrup. First you get imported beer, then diet soda, then the Utz brand chips vanish, the organic milk comes in all three flavors (skim, 2% and whole), and then the fresh flowers and fage.

And I dunno what a giedo is, Santa, but if it's like a Chav, I'm okay with that.

Posted by: Heather at November 3, 2009 4:31 PM

also gentrifiers work at Bodegas now?

Posted by: Santa at November 3, 2009 4:32 PM

I drink Stella, Santa.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:33 PM

The people posting here are really describing super-gentrified. I was thinking of things like, I now have a dry cleaner, there is a bakery 4 blocks away, the bodega's milk isn't sour anymore. Stuff like that.

Posted by: donatella at November 3, 2009 4:33 PM

Fresh pasta one block away.

Thank you, Saraghina.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:34 PM

seriously people. you guys are complaining about food in bodegas? I have to spend time on the nicest area of the Upper East Side for work and you can find as much soda and utz chips as any fat ass can eat there.

dont worry.

but I guess thats what you people do.

Posted by: Santa at November 3, 2009 4:34 PM

I'm glad someone mentioned the Red Sox hats. They are more prominent in Bay Ridge than Yankees hats these days. But as a Yankees fan I'm lovin' it even more these days - bragging rights coming shortly.

Posted by: italiana71 at November 3, 2009 4:35 PM

im not believing anyone really drinks stella.

Heineken too?

Posted by: Santa at November 3, 2009 4:36 PM

http://www.guidofistpump.com/guido%20pix/GuidoOompa.jpg

Posted by: Santa at November 3, 2009 4:36 PM

quote:
I was thinking of things like, I now have a dry cleaner, there is a bakery 4 blocks away, the bodega's milk isn't sour anymore. Stuff like that.

we live in brooklyn... not afganistan! i cant for the life of me imagine there has ever been a neighborhood anywhere in nyc where there hasnt been a baker, dry cleaner, and a place to get unsour milk. was it that bad at one time? if it was that is horrible.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 4:37 PM

dont worry.

but I guess thats what you people do.

Posted by: Santa at November 3, 2009 4:34 PM

Big up Santa despite your anti-Italian bias LOL ; )

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at November 3, 2009 4:39 PM

Women with nails that don't tell a story.

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 3, 2009 4:39 PM

Yeah, Santa, what's with the "guido cracks" and what do they have to do with gentrification???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:40 PM

When soy milk appears in the bodega, the game is afoot.

When rice milk appears, the game is over.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at November 3, 2009 4:41 PM

All the things you want but too ashamed to ask.

Posted by: crimsonson at November 3, 2009 4:43 PM

guidos have nothing to do with gentrifaction. They're the only people I know who drink Stella and that was a sign on gentrifcation. And guidos are a sign of all hell breaking loose in your area.

also Rob I work with some guys who grew up in harlem and they were talking about the shitty days and definitely didnt have a dry cleaner or a baker and good milk wasnt easy to come by.

Posted by: Santa at November 3, 2009 4:45 PM

Tumbleweaves no longer blowing down the road on windy days.

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 3, 2009 4:46 PM

Well, Stella is a Belgian beer so I don't get the connection.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:47 PM

*rob*

Yes Rob, the reason that people like my parents moved to neighborhoods like Marine Park (besides their obvious racism) is because, at least in the 70's, early 80's shit WAS that bad. It started in the 50's when the trolleys disappeared and then garbage pickups were less and less frequent and then middle class professionals ran away to L.I. and Westchester and Jersey. After the riots of the 60's I wouldn't be surprised if there were neighborhoods w/out bakeries/convenience stores.

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at November 3, 2009 4:48 PM

SOON TO RETURN IF THOMPSON IS ELECTED MAYOR.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:50 PM

*Cops give WARNING for smoking weed on street, instead of lock up.

*Baby strollers show up at the bar.

*New York Times available at bodega.

*Random gangs of dress shirts walking through your neighborhood around noon with blueprints pointing upwards.

*The prices plummet in your local grocery store...and it becomes somehow a much cleaner place to shop!

Posted by: cillmylandlord_again at November 3, 2009 4:52 PM

The fried chicken sign changes from "Kennedy" to "Kentucky".

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 3, 2009 4:53 PM

Increasing number of stoop drinking arrests involving Sauvignon Blanc.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:53 PM

Your new neighbours' names are Jonathon and Dave.

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 3, 2009 4:54 PM

Someone actually yells "Biff" to someone across the street.

:-(

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 4:55 PM

Your neighborhood begins to be mentioned on Brownstoner in an increasingly non-derisive manner.

Posted by: East New York at November 3, 2009 4:57 PM

Crime blotter notes a stabbing relating to two grocery store customers fighting over the last serving of foie gras.

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 3, 2009 4:58 PM

the grocery stores in park slope suck. I went to a grocery store next to the myrtle JMZ stop and it was great and had awesome produce and a butcher. I was blown away.

and yes Stella is a beer made in Belgium. Just because a cheese is made in Wisconsin doesn't mean its awesome cheese.

Posted by: Santa at November 3, 2009 5:01 PM

And the #1 reason to believe your neighborhood has become gentrified..........

A brownstoner End-Of-The-World Party is hosted within walking distance of your home.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 5:02 PM

> Your neighborhood begins to be mentioned on Brownstoner in
> an increasingly non-derisive manner.

Until such point that the derision increases again (see Park Slope Effect).

Posted by: DitmasSnark at November 3, 2009 5:03 PM

Guys you're all wrong. Gentrification starts the minute I start looking for a building to buy. And if *Rob* has something nasty to say it's time for me to buy another.

Posted by: FloatingWorld at November 3, 2009 5:03 PM

Chinese restaurants and drug dealers offer delivery instead of just take out.

Posted by: Heather at November 3, 2009 5:04 PM

and yes Stella is a beer made in Belgium. Just because a cheese is made in Wisconsin doesn't mean its awesome cheese.

Posted by: Santa at November 3, 2009 5:01 PM

Iwasn't saying it was awesome. I was aking why you equate it with "guidos."

Besides, there isn't any awesome chees made in Wisconsin so I think your logic is all f&*&ked up anyway.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 5:04 PM

levels of gentrification is an interesting point. i think even within carroll gardens there are some areas more gentrified than others, but there are still tons of working class families in the neighborhood.

don't forget to vote! i just got smacked down by a bunch of NJ colleagues that are voting for chris christie. yuk. i guess neither option is really appealing though.

Posted by: CG_ups at November 3, 2009 5:06 PM

"Until such point that the derision increases again (see Park Slope Effect)."

Or when people joke that one is more likely to be hurt by a cane than a knife (see Brooklyn Heights Effect).

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 3, 2009 5:07 PM

Chinese restaurants and drug dealers offer delivery instead of just take out.

Posted by: Heather at November 3, 2009 5:07 PM

The Chinese restaurants offer something that actually resembles good Chinese food.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 5:08 PM

mmm chinese food. i'm hungry.

Posted by: CG_ups at November 3, 2009 5:08 PM

"we live in brooklyn... not afganistan! i cant for the life of me imagine there has ever been a neighborhood anywhere in nyc where there hasnt been a baker, dry cleaner, and a place to get unsour milk. was it that bad at one time? if it was that is horrible.

*rob*"

Rob you complain about gentrifcation and then you pull out this stupid shit? Are you fucking stupid?

here are some photos from the bronx int he 80's
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=153781

here are some photos from harlem in the late 80's
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=149448

bakery and dry cleaners? you were lucky enough to not get stabbed by a tweaker.

Posted by: Santa at November 3, 2009 5:09 PM

The Chinese restaurants remove the bullet proof glass dividing the cashier and the customers.

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 3, 2009 5:09 PM

the check cashing places disappear. though there is one on court street in fancypants brooklyn heights. hmmm.

Posted by: CG_ups at November 3, 2009 5:11 PM

multiple poo mist chambers are considered an AMMENITY in apt ads :-/

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 5:13 PM

Santa, those were amazing links.

Posted by: Biff Champion at November 3, 2009 5:14 PM

angry sourpuss adults with pitchforks, instead of kids, are running after the mr. softee truck.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 5:15 PM

Asshats buy homes and carve up precious small Victorian rooms adding ensuite master bathrooms and large kitchens with islands of granite and stainless steel appliances.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 3, 2009 5:16 PM

breastfeeding becomes a spectator sport

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 5:19 PM

*No pause or being placed on hold when giving your address after placing a delivery for food.

*The seafood department is open at the grocery store after ...if there is a seafood department.

*Grafitti just became cool and artsy!

*The unemployed in your 'hood are now "freelancers".

*911 is no longer a joke.

Posted by: cillmylandlord_again at November 3, 2009 5:25 PM

*No pause or being placed on hold when giving your address after placing a delivery for food.

*The seafood department is open at the grocery store after ...if there is a seafood department.

*Grafitti just became cool and artsy!

*The unemployed in your 'hood are now "freelancers".

*911 is no longer a joke.

Posted by: cillmylandlord_again at November 3, 2009 5:25 PM

edison lightbulbs in bar windows.

Posted by: laik at November 3, 2009 5:33 PM

Those were great links Santa, thanks. I did not live in NY in the 80s, so I appreciate that. If you know of any links for Brooklyn, I'd love to see.

Posted by: cillmylandlord_again at November 3, 2009 5:55 PM

an indie section at the blockbuster

Posted by: cmar7785 at November 3, 2009 6:12 PM

Starbucks and pizzerias that charge 3.00 dollars or more for a slice of pizza.

Posted by: hannible at November 3, 2009 6:53 PM

nobody mentioned thai restaurants???? shocked.

Posted by: aj at November 3, 2009 7:09 PM

you know your neighborhood is gentrifying when...

-the local Chinese restaurant now has tables.

-the local Spanish restaurant has cuisine from Spain.

-the local Chinese restaurant doesn't serve Spanish dishes and vice versa.

-the local pizzeria refers to a plain pie as the "Margherita", and doesn't serve slices.

-mixed breed dogs are referred to as a combo breed like Labra-doodle, instead of mutt.

-there is a dog run, instead of dogs running wild and rummaging through your trash.

-when people tell you they're "gonna kick your ass", they don't mean it in the ironic sense.

-the local bar is where you go to hang out, instead of hide out.

-the local bodega stops serving customers through a plexiglass window with an attached rotating lazy susan contraption, between the hours of 11:00PM and 5:00AM. They simply close at 10:00.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 7:25 PM

ugh this thread had me thinking for a bit... came back.. lots of what everyone said, myself included!, was totally kinda sorta racist, classist, etc etc etc. but that is how we are forced to things when neighborhoods change so fast. you can call it gentification all you want, but there is SO much white flight going on in the neighboring suburbs these days... all those fraidy cat empty nesters who were afraid of the city are now cashing in and coming back because um eh uh ooooooh our secluded suburbs are becoming too non homogenous. i grew up in a mostly non white hood in jersey so that's why 'the things that white people like' (props to that site) has always made me lol. cuz they are things i normally, eh, dont like at all. i feel like cuz people who can spend money will go where they want, i will be forced on the yoga mat out of the city like the rest of us unfortunate people because you NOW all of a sudden deem city living is cool. BARF! :) some of us knew it all along. smoe of us even were teased growing up for thinking getting a drivers license was outdated and lame. oh well. it only matters how much is your wallet i guess, not how passionate people were about the cities they live in and grew near.

*bfly*

Posted by: Butterfly at November 3, 2009 8:25 PM

Donatella--totally right on about getting a real dry cleaner. For our early years here in CH, our only choice was the combo dry cleaner/numbers joint. The clothes suffered. And I would add (in the "early gentrification" category):

Dramatic reduction in empty crack vials/used condoms on the sidewalk.

Removal of bulletproof partitions at liquor stores and Chinese restaurants.

Slow uptick in restaurants that have seats and a bar.

Dumpsters on every block, at least until recently.

Posted by: tinarina at November 3, 2009 8:30 PM

God, I am so easy to please. Yes, Rob, you're surprised that there were no bakeries and drycleaners? Over on Fulton Street, there was NOTHING. It was Mad Max. Just nail places and beauty parlors and barbershops and bodegas with sour milk. That was half of the buildings. The other half were empty. A lovely drug rehab place on Fulton and Washington. Like Tinarina says, crack vials and condoms and even now, your spent bullet. There used to be a drycleaner on Fulton - a guy who stuffed your clothes with the equivalent of half a tree of tissue paper and used fumes that took 2 weeks to air off. And I got stuff back with cigarette burns. So it was back to Brooklyn Heights to the nice lady who cleaned my clothes in my other life. Now the man of the year is Rolando, the new drycleaner on Fulton near Clinton, who hails from Washington Heights, and is good, nice and cheap!

Posted by: donatella at November 3, 2009 9:24 PM

At least one restaurant that makes reference to the local origons of its ingredients.

Posted by: mopar at November 3, 2009 10:10 PM

What people always fail to realize, or choose to forget, is neighborhoods were de-gentrified before the were ever gentrified.

Take East New York. East New York was a huge working class Jewish neighborhood for a long, long time. If white people start moving to ENY will the "gentrification" word will be dropped? What about the fact that it once was a nice, safe, respectable, "white" neighborhood?

Red Hook, Fort Greene, Williamsburg, all these places were safe working class neighborhoods or primarily white; Irish, Italian, Jewish, Polish, etc, for years before they became known as "fringe" or "bad".

What if white people moving in is not "gentrification", but more of "reclamation"?

Posted by: christopher at November 3, 2009 10:47 PM

me again,

yeah,ummm... let me restate one of my points...
In an ungentrified neighborhood, when someone tells you they are "gonna kick your ass". They do not mean it in the ironic sense. They mean just that.
In a gentrified 'hood, "kickin' ass" is just an abstract concept.

just wanted to clarify that for those of you who find yourselves in east new york or gerritsen beach on any particular Friday night.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 10:51 PM

Rosie Perez

Posted by: dirty_hipster at November 3, 2009 11:05 PM

Being out-gentrified by younger and wealthier people who look like you did to older people 25 years ago.

Posted by: professorlonghair at November 3, 2009 11:55 PM

you know your neighborhood has been gentrified when white girls walk their dogs at 11:30pm and act like it is OK.

Posted by: witchdoctor at November 4, 2009 7:59 AM

gen⋅tri⋅fi⋅ca⋅tion – noun

1. the buying and renovation of houses and stores in deteriorated urban neighborhoods by upper- or middle-income families or individuals, thus improving property values but often displacing low-income families and small businesses.

This being the "supposed" true definition of gentrification, how many gentrifiers are just passing through, renters with deeper pockets than the previous residents before them, before we are uprooted our self by people with even deeper pockets?

Boring Pennsylvania suburb to East Village to Park Slope to Crown Heights.., to hopefully a cabin in Vermont!!!

PS I am Black.., very, very Black.

Posted by: snowboardqueen at November 4, 2009 8:20 AM

PS I am Black.., very, very Black.

Posted by: snowboardqueen at November 4, 2009 8:20 AM

LOL

Me: Chicago to UES to bed Stuy and, upon retirement, rural Pennsylvania. I'll be in Bed Stuy a long time!!!!

Saraghina people opening another retaurant on Halsey & Stuyvesant!!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 4, 2009 9:06 AM

Sometimes a sister must clarify.

In all honesty it comes down to G-R-E-E-N. Historically, people of color may have been/be disproportionately displached when it comes to gentrification.., but it must sting like hell when it happens to you no matter the race.

Some white friends of mine who moved to Boston, Cambridge, and those who lived in working class white neighborhoods in Philadelphia, S. Phila - Kensington - Fishtown, are blogging about being priced out of those communities.

Maybe DaveinBedStuy when you retire you can buy my families place in Lancaster, Pa..., but wait it's already gone from Rural to Suburban.

By the time you retire Lncaster, PA may have transformed into an inner city with a "charming" but dilapidated Amish Barn that could be a real fix'er upper.

Posted by: snowboardqueen at November 4, 2009 10:27 AM

White people.

When white people come, the sushi spots come, the "gourmet" everything, lounges, overpriced clothing boutiques, overpriced housing, just about everything goes up when white people move-in to an "urban" neighborhood.

For example, Prospect Lefferts Garden & Red Hook. I grew up on Fenimore btn Flatbush & Bedford. I seen white people live on the in blocks (i.e. between Bedford & Rogers). They never took the Q/D or the B train at Parkside or Prospect Park. The 7th Ave station was like the last stop for all white people on those trains. Now I see them get off all the way at Cortelyou Road! Madness.

For Red Hook, I was born & raised in Brooklyn & never went to Red Hook until like last year (for my road test). Now I have a job in Red Hook & it shocks me to see the amount of white people living here. Red Hook is on people radars as being gentrified; but, I don't see it or get it. I still see a massive amount of abandon land & buildings mixed-in with nice buildings that white people recently purchased & renovated. And, white people drive so they don't have to worry about the horrendous commute to & from Red Hook. Wait! They take the NY Water Taxi.

Posted by: Miss Breukelen at November 4, 2009 10:46 AM

#2 Banks move in, check cashing places move out.

And the #1 indication of gentrification - some b--- from corcoran invents a new name to market your neighborhood...

Posted by: saminthehood at November 4, 2009 10:57 AM

saminthehood: true.

Red Hook still have one bank: Soveriegn Bank.

Posted by: Miss Breukelen at November 4, 2009 11:01 AM

Lol,

"And the #1 indication of gentrification - some b--- from corcoran invents a new name to market your neighborhood..."

I'm behinning to hear I moved to EAST Prospect Heights not Crown Heights! Lol!

But they said UNCOMMON INDICATORS, all the indicators mentioned seem to be common from reading the thread. Perhaps it was meant as uncommon the what the previous residents or that community were used to?

I must admit, by the time I have moved anywhere in New York City, there has ALWAYS been a newly opened Sushi restaurant there.

Now that I'm lactose intolerant, I could careless about fresh goats milk.

Posted by: snowboardqueen at November 4, 2009 11:07 AM

gentrification is a figment of your imagination.

Posted by: Santa at November 4, 2009 11:25 AM

Finally finding a decent place in new york that you can afford, at a good price, and bloggers protesting..."for that, over there?!"...hipsters jogging at midnight down Myrtle...fear of fast food...somebody stop me!

Posted by: boerumite at November 4, 2009 11:31 AM

wow, "tumbleweaves" I've actually seen those on multiple occasions in my neighborhood, very funny. And it's hard to find diet soda. But there is a bakery and a dry cleaner.

Posted by: BHS at November 4, 2009 12:58 PM

I think some of you gentrifiers are confusing Brooklyn Cyclones hats with Red Sox hats. Get a clue.

Posted by: Yllebdael at November 4, 2009 1:25 PM

Here's a look at the other perspective:
http://vimeo.com/6816546

Posted by: irie jones at November 4, 2009 3:55 PM

« Development Watch: 527 Lincoln Place Tuesday Blogwrap »

November 3, 2009

Closing Bell: Gentrification Indicators

Trackback Pings

Comments

Post a comment

Latest Restaurant Additions