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October 22, 2009
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Hola,
So according to FBI there is a mobster more powerful than Gotti and guess what, He is a Russian. I am in a wrong business.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/21/mogilevich.fbi.most.wanted/index.html
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 9:20 AM
GO PHILLIES!!!!!!!
In other, less important news, Tishman lost the lawsuit over the deregulated Stuy Town units!!!!
GO PHILLIES!!!!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 9:22 AM
whoa i found out i have 11 vacation days left to be used by new years. but i have no where to go! what should i do?
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 22, 2009 9:42 AM
I'm in the wrong business too Kens - I read in the NYDN today that the head stagehand at the Carnegie Hall got paid $500K last year. The carpenter got a paltry $400K.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 9:42 AM
20 mins without a new OT comment? Where is everyone?
Posted by: the chicken at October 22, 2009 9:43 AM
DIBS, get ready for wager with ENY cause Yanks coming thru
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 9:43 AM
Rob, I can't remember, do you know how to drive? If so, get in a car and drive west.
Posted by: jessibaby at October 22, 2009 9:45 AM
And, Go Phils!
Posted by: jessibaby at October 22, 2009 9:45 AM
let me say it again, KNICKS are UNDEFEATED
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 9:45 AM
Ditto, aren't you a lawyer of some sort? Maybe Carnegie Hall needs legal counsel and willing to cough up some money for a good one.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 9:48 AM
Rob, you can go to Iceland for 3 nights including airfare for around $380 (5 hours from JFK)
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 9:48 AM
"I'm in the wrong business too Kens - I read in the NYDN today that the head stagehand at the Carnegie Hall got paid $500K last year. The carpenter got a paltry $400K. "
Remember this fact the next time one of these cultural institutions try to hit you up for a donation. Many of these institutions, plus many universities, seem to believe that controlling costs is beneath them - something that only lower forms of species like businessmen deal with.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 9:48 AM
"In other, less important news, Tishman lost the lawsuit over the deregulated Stuy Town units!!!"
Couldn't happen to a more deserving company.
and...
Go Phillies!
Posted by: northsloperenter at October 22, 2009 9:49 AM
jessi, i never got my license! yeah, im one of those. it used to be embarrassing, but now apparently it's cool to not drive, not having a license isnt such a big deal. i wouldnt be good behind the wheel anyway, i can barely roller skate.
ugh 500,000 a year for a stagehand? i guess THOSE are the "creative professionals" all these million dollar condos target? grrr
okay whatever, i decided to try and be less grouchy for now on.
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 22, 2009 9:49 AM
I'm sure there were union issues involved with carpenters & electricians at Carnegie Hall.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 9:50 AM
Yes, get rid of the unions, everyone but the yuppies should be living check to check...
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 9:50 AM
Benson, only suckers and/or rich folks contribute to these fancy institutions.
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 9:51 AM
Benson, I was at a wedding in the summer and one of the guys at our table has an MBA from MIT and works as an analyst for Metropolitan Opera. I asked him why there when he can be at a financial institution making "good" money. Let me tell ya.....he aint crying about his income.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 9:51 AM
tax-exempt not-for-profits are the best scam out there
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 9:52 AM
"whoa i found out i have 11 vacation days left to be used by new years. but i have no where to go! what should i do?"
get a life? take a 11 day rest from wallowing in whatever it is you have on brownstoner OT?
just some friendly advice. no homo.
Posted by: randolph at October 22, 2009 9:53 AM
Joe, I don't think Rob has a passport for Iceland :(
Rob, maybe take Amtrak somewhere. You need to leave the East Coast.
Posted by: jessibaby at October 22, 2009 9:54 AM
I love it how people think it's like some kind of scandal that a skilled worker gets paid $50/ hour for sitting around. Like the board of regents of these same institutions get paid to sit on gold thrones. I can live with it and am willing to pay, it's called REALLY stimulating the economy...
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 9:54 AM
Benson, with you 100% on that one.
Posted by: the chicken at October 22, 2009 9:54 AM
why does Metropolitan Opera need an analyst?
Posted by: the chicken at October 22, 2009 9:55 AM
tax-exempt not-for-profits are the best scam out there
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 9:52 AM
I say we open up a PLUSA organization. DH for controller, Dave for CFO and Biff for president. Snappy and Slope will be legal counsels. We collect for BK neighborhood associations and such. [In reality, only about 5% will go to them and the rest will go to our salaries]
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 9:55 AM
Hey more4less,
I took a pic showing your ad campaign on my way in to work this morning and posted it on the forum :-)
Posted by: Bklnite at October 22, 2009 9:55 AM
"willing to cough up some money for a good one"
Well if they consider mediocre ones also I'll be at the front of the queue
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 9:55 AM
DIBS;
You really want to see legalized extortion in action?? Try out a convention center like the Javits for size. It is un-friggin-believeable. It works something like this:
-ANY work that involves something electrical or mechanical must be done by the Javits/union-approved labor. I'm talking about things as simple as running an extension cord. Heaven help you if you violate this rule, you'll find that your trade show material was somehow "lost" or destroyed in shipping.
-Once this legal monopoly is established, charge exorbinant rates. "Oh, you want that extension cord run?. That will be $150 dollars, please".
Ridiculous. That is why so much trade show business goes to friendlier business environments.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 9:56 AM
why does Metropolitan Opera need an analyst?
Posted by: the chicken at October 22, 2009 9:55 AM
Honestly chicken, I have NOOOO idea. Maybe he does more than a conventional analyst? Like just a title but more of an assistant controller or some sort?
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 9:57 AM
Unions created the middle class in this country. The crabs in a barrel attitude of crying about this group or that group making too much is backward thinking that will destroy the middle class. Let the bailouts go directly to the people who work, not the parasites who play with fake numbers.
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 9:59 AM
The reasons for unions hardly exist anymore.
They have morphed into egregious make-work, make-overtime, shelter the employees from paying what everyone else pays for health insurance, eight week vacation, entitled group of typically overweight, smoking, lazy workers.
Ever see the folks on a picket line???? Shouldn't they be paying FAR more for their health insurance given what they look like????????
Stick it to 'em like Stella D'Oro did!!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 9:59 AM
They need an analyst to oversee the Million dollar stock option package given to the window cleaner there.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 9:59 AM
Dave, watch out for "S" shaped cookies.
Posted by: jessibaby at October 22, 2009 10:00 AM
If a business is being overcharged for something thats something that should be addressed bet. the company and the vendor. Believe me, management knows about it and is probably taking a piece.
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:01 AM
Joe, I don't think anyone's beef is with a person's ability to make a good living but rather what they have to do to make that.
No-one begrudges a brain surgeon's ability to make millions because they have had to train and study for years to get to that position. Mr Carnegie Hall just has to have strong arms and back and be reasonably organised.
Posted by: the chicken at October 22, 2009 10:03 AM
Benson - It's even worse than that. You have to have teamsters load your stuff in (I painted boxes just before they came off the trucks at the loading dock & warned the guys so they said my own crew could do the load-in.) The house electricians don't have a clue what they're doing so you pay them to sit in a closet & use your own. The audio engineers don't know the names of most of the equipment so you have to order an extra console chair for their person to sit in while you run the board yourself.
Only place that's worse (& that includes Vegas w/ its reputation as the most unionized but which is, in fact, quite reasonable) is New Orleans. I had a 60 projector slide show there & they wanted me to have a union projectionist on every one!
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 10:03 AM
what's up folks!!!
missed you allll!
m4l - ummmm haven't the knicks only played like 1 game?
DH - ok I have a great new band you need to check out! broken bells - dangermouse and shins lead singer! - amaazing!
ok I promise to try to be more active - its just been nutso
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 10:04 AM
Yes, benson, I've heard all the horror stories about the trade show labor situation. You think the MTA, Amtrack, city & state workers are any more efficient????
ROTFLMMFAO
And this pay cut bullshit for the top executives of companies that got gevernment bailouts!!!!!! Wait 'till they all leave.
They all have enough money already and they won't work for nothing for nuimnuts government owners. These companies will be left with NO effective leadership to manage them out of the problems.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 10:04 AM
MAybe when all the Stella D'oro workers get evicted from their homes you can swoop in and get some good real estate deals, that's what it's all about right? I mean why shouldn't we just have slave-worker s like in China, we could move evryone into the projects and buy up half of Brooklyn. The attitude you have and your lack of empathy for hardworking Stella D'oror workers in the Bronx who make 30K a year is disturbing...
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:04 AM
The problm is you jump from some extreme example of corruption to some poor school aide making $12 an hour. Most union workers work HARD for just barely fair wages, without it we'd ALL (union or no) be making around $10 / hr. less guys.
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:07 AM
Joe...have you ANY idea what the Stella D'Oro workers were asking for??????????????
Look it up and tell me it was at all reasonable. I'll give you a start...8 weeks paid vacation. FUCK THEM.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 10:07 AM
Rob - Why don't you go visit your grandmother in Carolina? It'd be good for you to get away in general & great for you to see another part of the country.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 10:07 AM
Bklnite,
not me but rather a naming rights agreement I signed with said client to use my handle
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 10:07 AM
I disgagree w/ pay caps and I'm not a Obama fan
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:07 AM
Joe, you can't defend this Carnegie Hall guy's salary like I can't defend the payouts for the CEOs of the bailed-out banks.
Posted by: the chicken at October 22, 2009 10:08 AM
I don't disagree that some people do not get paid a fair wage.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 10:08 AM
Unions used to be a good thing & a few still are but an awful lot of them nowadays are rotten. Plus rank & file doesn't really benefit.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 10:08 AM
I'm all for stagehands, whose skills can be learned in about 8 weeks, earning $500K a year if they hold the job for one year only and then turn it over to someone equally well-qualified and enthusiastic from the city projects. Spread the wealth around to everyone eh?
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 10:09 AM
Kens,
You left CGar and jb out of the PLUSA counsel's office. C'mon, you can featherbed better than that! Cobble will head up the development office and organize the fundraisers. MM is in charge of architecture and design. Wasder's in charge of music. And kens, you are in charge of security.
Posted by: slopefarm at October 22, 2009 10:10 AM
quote:
entitled group of typically overweight, smoking, lazy workers
uh, as oppossed to typically underweight, pole smoking, paper pushing day traders who post on the internet all day? hmnmmm :)
*rb*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 22, 2009 10:11 AM
What do you give shit what they asked for? It's called a NEGOTIATION, say it with me MEGOTIATIOn, you ask for more than you think you're gonna get...
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:11 AM
Joe, you can't defend this Carnegie Hall guy's salary like I can't defend the payouts for the CEOs of the bailed-out banks.
The difference is bailouts = welfare
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:12 AM
England's worse. At the BBC you have to have, for instance, one union guy to hang a clock on a set, a 2nd to plug it in, a third to move the hands, etc. And they time their tea breaks so each group has downtime waiting for the other crew to come back on.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 10:12 AM
G10, if I don't brag now about the Knicks, odds are against me as regular season hands me some serious reality check.
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 10:12 AM
Joe, I don't know anything about the Stella D'Oro situation so I just googled it.
You bemoan the employees not being able to get $12-18/hour - but maybe that's overpaid to what the work actually entailed. Companies exist to generate a return for their shareholders. If they are going to be loss-making indefinitely as a result of the union's demands (whether reasonable or not) then they close down.
Posted by: the chicken at October 22, 2009 10:13 AM
"say it with me MEGOTIATIOn"
Ok.
MEGOTIATIOn.
What did I just say?
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 10:14 AM
Arkady - don't forget elevenses
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 10:15 AM
The reasons for unions hardly exist anymore.....
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 9:59 AM
So true... but it's not only the stereotypical blue collar worker's union that needs reform. Some of the worst corruption and socialist behaviors are found in the white collar unions such as the United Federation of Teachers. This group in particular should be reformed or perhaps abolished. The underpaid teacher is a socialist myth long perpetuated by the UFT and it's socialist core beliefs.
Posted by: Crescent Hill at October 22, 2009 10:15 AM
My grandfather was a big union supporter - Press for 60-some years. We couldn't bring in a grocery product if there were no press union "bug" on the wrapper. But when they tried to mau-mau my brother into a teacher's union at SUNY, even my grandfather said he should fight it because it didn't represent what unions are supposed to stand for.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 10:16 AM
"What do you give shit what they asked for? It's called a NEGOTIATION, say it with me MEGOTIATIOn, you ask for more than you think you're gonna get..."
Joe,
Absolutely right. And the converse part of that statement is that people and managers also have a right to avoid union labor when they think they are not getting good value for their money. I would submit to you that when folks from the right (me) to the left (Arkady) feel that unions have overplayed their hand, they have indeed worn out their welcome with alot of folks.
Also, please spare me the stuff about unions creating the middle class. I've been in the manufacturing sector in my entire professional life, and unions had a big role in the destruction of that sector. I used to work closely with a unionized machine shop in NJ. Some of the guys there, who made a salary equal to mine as an engineer, used to openly brag about how little work they did, and how the management couldn't do anything about it.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 10:18 AM
"Carnegie Hall had an operating shortfall of $40.2 million in 2007-2008. After including funds from donors, investment income and government grants, the hall ended the season with a $1.9 million surplus."
government grants eh?
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 10:18 AM
You bemoan the employees not being able to get $12-18/hour - but maybe that's overpaid to what the work actually entailed. Companies exist to generate a return for their shareholders. If they are going to be loss-making indefinitely as a result of the union's demands (whether reasonable or not)
Who in NYC can live on $12 an hour?!
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:18 AM
Gem!! welcome back!!
Broken bells must be really new since they don't have a playlist on imeem yet!
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 10:18 AM
Its really obvious none of you have worked backstage on show or constructed sets. You have no idea the amount of expertise, skills and liabilities that go into mounting a major show. Head stagehand and master carpenter positions are part trade skill, part art, part legal rep, part diplomat and part engineer. It's a hell of a lot more than hammering in a nail pulling a rope. And to all of you who love to put down "creative professionals"- just imagine the ghost town this would be if it weren't for the Arts. Not only a major source of income for the city, but prestige and, dare I say it? inspiring and stimulating.
It's such a hoot to hear financial types and -as rob so aptly put it- paper pushers complaining about the salary of someone in the arts or who works in nonprofits. Creative professionals sure aren't the ones responsible for the mess we're in now.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 10:19 AM
unions seem to only exist in any meaningful fashion in the northeast. with this econ and trend of outsourcing jobs out of the area, out of the country,... wonder if Unions will make a comeback
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 10:21 AM
quote:
No-one begrudges a brain surgeon's ability to make millions
ahem.. ahem.. i am of the opinion that doctors are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over paid in this country. i know i know medical school bills, but most people in medical school get their money from their rich families anyway and those that dont easily pay it back once they start bringing in the dough which is a lot. and i guess lawsuits and stuff. the concept of Doctor and the concept of Lawyer are basically what has destroyed humanity and KEEPS us from evolving. we've been the same for thousands and thousands of years, it's pathetic. when we will be evolving? hello, we're not! the $perm (why is that word filtered? and eggs in some in vitro clinic on the UES are the same $perm and eggs found in the altamira caves of prehistoric times. you call that progress? blech.
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 22, 2009 10:22 AM
I don't think teachers get paid enough. Most teachers in this country arent't union btw.
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:23 AM
Most specialists are overpaid...
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:23 AM
bxgrl - I've worked in many of the big stages in NYC including Linc. Ctr. & Radio City &, yes, there are good techs who know a lot but there's also a huge amount of featherbedding & there are a bunch of "workers" who haven't got a clue - members only because their fathers were & w/o a skill of any description.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 10:23 AM
"The problm is you jump from some extreme example of corruption to some poor school aide making $12 an hour. Most union workers work HARD for just barely fair wages, without it we'd ALL (union or no) be making around $10 / hr. less guys."
I'm with Joe here. Like "welfare queens", rent stabilized millionaires and other classic examples of people scamming the system, these people are not indicative the masses of people who truly benefit from unionization. I have no problem with people picking on the truly corrupt and stupid, but let's not lump all union workers together. We would look more like China or Mexico without unions in the manufacturing trades, and that trickles down to all of us.
I'm not saying there is not need for reform or intelligent thinking, there certainly is, I've worked trade shows at the Javits, too, and it's ridiculous, but all union workers are not making out like fat cats, especially those in lower rungs of health care, office work, retail, and manufacturing. It really smacks of robber baron elitism for a group of finance people, lawyers and other well off people begrudging a stage hand for doing well. Isn't that the American ideal to make a good living with one's skills? I'd rather the stage hand got the money over some overstuffed CEO or exec of some company my tax dollars had to rescue because of their mistakes and greedy manipulation of invisible assets and paper shuffling.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at October 22, 2009 10:25 AM
Slope, sorry left out a few but we can work out those details. I can head security and get paid 500K a year. I dont mind.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 10:25 AM
members only because their fathers were & w/o a skill of any description.
That's wrong but it's something I could live with. I'd rather the guy's son be a good-for-nothing worker than a good-for-nothing pimp/drug dealer/mugger.
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:26 AM
bxgrl - the point is the stagehand salary isn't a market rate salary, its purely due to union stranglehold.
This isn't about what creative professionals earn in the market rate, the stagehands are out-earning those playing the darn instruments!
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 10:26 AM
"Who in NYC can live on $12 an hour?!
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:18 AM"
Exactly my point - the factory was right to close then?
Posted by: the chicken at October 22, 2009 10:26 AM
Rob - There's some merit in your argument but it speaks to only part of the medical fraternity. I agree there should be tort reform but I'm alive only because several guys w/ med school degrees did a lot of really important stuff for me. And there's a significant population of med school students who struggle mightily to pay to go & then work in needy areas under-served by big-bucks research facilities.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 10:27 AM
Yes- government grants. Or would you rather they only bailout big banks and financial companies only to see those same companies wallowing in bonuses while they held their hands out for a dole?
As far as the UFT? My sister and my brother in law are teachers. She in the Bronx. I dare any of you to walk into a Bronx classroom full of young toughs and teach them math. NYC teachers have some of the most difficult situations to work in, under one of the worst Bd.s of Eds in the country and most of them are dedicated, hardworking, and accomplished. I'd rather see money go to a good teacher than a stockbroker.
Anf for the record- I'm no lover of unions. They forced my father out of business because his workers did not want to join one. I just think the contempt regarding the men and women who belong to them is over the top.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 10:27 AM
i predict a nasty arguement approaching!
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 10:28 AM
don't even bother wasting your breathe arguing about benefit of unions to these guys, Joe. I would listen and be open to their arguments if they spent 25% of their venom on
how we are being scammed and screwed by corporations, their bigwigs, their corruption,etc.
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 10:28 AM
quote:
Rob - Why don't you go visit your grandmother in Carolina?
i gotta be honest with you. i really have no desire to see her. she makes me feel sorta ill inside whenever i talk to her. i know that's horrible to say,but i cant mask my feelings.
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 22, 2009 10:28 AM
The workers at Stella D'oro were making more like $18-$25, a barely livable wage in NYC.
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:28 AM
So welfare is better than honest work Chicken?
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:28 AM
Why can't we go on arguing and throwing invectives?? Why does Montrose Morris have to stick her nose in this and her 2 cents worth and turn this into a reasonable and sensible discussion all the time????
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 10:30 AM
"Cobble will head up the development office and organize the fundraisers."
I'll do it! Where do I send my resume!?
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 10:30 AM
Thanks Pete.
"Don't throw pearls at swine..."
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:30 AM
How are unions working out for the american auto industry nowadays?
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 10:31 AM
g10 - have you heard The Black Keys?
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 10:33 AM
Arkady- we must talk! :-) But regardless (and yes, there is a lot of bloat), a Master Carpenter nad a Head Stagehand are not your typical paint a chair and hand me that drill kind of jobs. They come with a huge amount of responsibility and require an enormous amount of skill and knowledge. I am not talking about the jobs at a lower level.
dittoberg- do you think a stockbroker has a skill set commensurate with what he earns? How about a CEO who drives his company into he ground, or the heads of Countrywide who made all those high risk homeowner loans? Reading these posts its very clear that white collar people look down on blue collar workers and think they are overpaid. that's hilarious considering the past year.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 10:33 AM
You mean the non-union Mexican Auto Industry? That's where the cars are made DH.
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:34 AM
Dittoburg... did you just include musicians in the category of "creative professionals"?! When will this catch-all category stop expanding!!!! Is it because the Carnegie Hall musicians make great money? If they were only scraping together $35k a year, they're not "creative professionals" right?
Uggh.
Posted by: tybur6 at October 22, 2009 10:34 AM
Montrose;
The trouble with the lofty appeal is that it doesn't conform to the reality I see on the ground. I, like Arkady, come from a family that was heavily involved with unions. As time went on, my father came to detest them, because he saw who actually benefitted from them.
I gave you the example of the machine shop in NJ and the Javits center, and this is something I saw with my own eyes. Want another example? The NUMBER ONE industry in Brooklyn used to be shipping. What destroyed it? A ludicrous contract negotiated with the mafia-controlled longshoremen's union(which should have been more appropriately called "Albert Anastasia's racket"). On the block where I grew up, there was a longshoreman who never did a single day's work. He would go down to hiring hall in Sunset park, check in, and then go home every single day, and make his guaranteed salary.
Not satisfied with this extortion, the longshoremen used to engage in wide-spread pilfering of the goods that came on the dock. Every warehouse in Red Hook used to be filled with this stuff, which was then sold off by these same crooks.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 10:35 AM
Oh I know, dave. She is so annoying!
DH- I dunno. Ask the corporate execs though. Have them fly here on their private, corporate jets to explain.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 10:36 AM
30 years ago CEO's made 15 times the average worker, in small comapnies it was more like 4X. Now it's astronimical, in some cases CEO's make 1000's X more. And you wonder who has their hand in the cookie jar? It's not the workers, their real inflation-adjusted wages haven't risen in 20 years
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:37 AM
Montrose - I'm guesing tyou wouldn't stand in the middle of the Louis Pink houses and tell the gathered crowd that its defensible for a small select group of americans with celtic surnames and the right family connections to make $500K a year moving props and equipment around a stage?
Do you think anyone here would begrudge the same Joe for making half a million a year from a coffee cart business he built up himself?
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 10:37 AM
"So welfare is better than honest work Chicken?
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:28 AM"
Where did I imply that?
It's very simple - you set up a business, you pay your employees the rate that you need to to get the job done to the standard that you require. If you can make a profit then that is your reward for owning the business and you stay in business because you expect to continue to make a profit. If you can't make a profit (either because your product doesn't sell enough or your costs are too high) then you close the business down. Are you suggesting that the factory should have stayed open even if it was a long-term loss-making operation?
As to the question of how much you have to make to be able to live in a given area, that's a circular argument. Decade of New York being successful have lead to ever increasing wage increase demands, which leads to higher end prices for the consumer. I would happily take a 50% pay cut if it meant the cost of everything went down 51%.
You forget why unions came into being in the first place, and therefore why there is no need for them in today's America.
Posted by: the chicken at October 22, 2009 10:38 AM
Do you think anyone here would begrudge the same Joe for making half a million a year from a coffee cart business he built up himself?
Stop putting words in our mouths. That's ridiculous. These CEO's take down companies and feed off the pieces, the majority don't build up anything...
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:40 AM
I just think the contempt regarding the men and women who belong to them is over the top.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 10:27 AM
It's largley the union management that is at fault. Power has gone to their heads.
Remeber that asshole Roger Toussault (sp?) when the transit union struck?????????
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 10:40 AM
right tybur, I made a mistake. The musicians are the creatives, as distinct from the creative professionals who make the $$$
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 10:40 AM
You can't compete with slave labor chicken. That's what Clinton/Bush forced us to do because of NAFTA and the WTO.
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:41 AM
quote:
And there's a significant population of med school students who struggle mightily to pay to go
okay true true. one of the characters on the new Melrose Place is in medical school and stuggling with passed due tuition payments. she's gorgeous and exotic looking and wound up becoming a high priced call girl to pay back her debt. tho according the last nights episode it looks like the madame fired her, but luckily one of the guys living in the apartment complex is a trust fund baby (im not making this up) and was able to loan her the 20,000 dollars she needed to stay in medical school. i wish i lived at melrose place instead of brokelyn.
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 22, 2009 10:41 AM
Union management? That's like saying Hedge Fund unions!
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:42 AM
"Yes- government grants. Or would you rather they only bailout big banks and financial companies only to see those same companies wallowing in bonuses while they held their hands out for a dole?"
You're missing my point, I'm quite happy for the Goverment to give to worthy causes and support all aspects of nations' culture, creative, environment, social etc.
The point was aimed at Joe from Brooklyn who says the difference is goverment money to other areas = welfare, and thats why its not ok.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 10:43 AM
I am not surprised by the comments defending the UFT . The myth of the underpaid teacher is so pervasive in our society. Anyone who is "in the know" with regard to this group is fully aware that it needs reform. It is a socialist group with it's beginnings rooted in anarchism with strong ties to the Zionist movements in the 1st half of the 20th century. As a person who knows family & friends who are veteran overpaid ( extra pay for covering classes, afterschool programs, camps, latch key) , underworked ( frequent preps, frees, breaks all day long) , vacationing frequently teachers, my opinion of this groups union fueled chicanery is unwavering.
Posted by: Crescent Hill at October 22, 2009 10:43 AM
Benson - And one reason so few ships today are US-registered is because of union rules.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 10:45 AM
bxgrl, my minor was actually Theatre stage production in college and I put up shows for out college and know ins and out of stage production and still don't think that a carpenter position justifies 400K when the hall runs a deficit. If Carnegie Hall was a successful business venture, by all means pay what you like to your employees.
Rob, you are WAY off your rocker today. Most of what you just posted is completely wrong and doesn't make any sense once so ever. We've been the same for thousands and thousands of years? Last time I check, you didn't have to hunt for your meat or live in a cave. I can keep on going but I have to move on and actually do some work
Joe, I happen to agree with the rest on Unions. Being an immigrant and having immigrant friends, we were shocked at concept of unions (even coming for a communist country which was practically ran as one big union). My mom is a union employee at a hospital and is shocked till this day with the amount of stuff that seniority in her hospital get away with. She is in the same job for 16 years and worked very hard but some of the other people barely lift a finger and they can't get fired unless they do something really really messed up. My mom is shocked how much people get away with and her conscience doesn't let her get away with stuff so she works hard. When the whole MTA strike happened a few years ago, my friends dad (also an immigrant) is a track engineer for the MTA and we were talking over his house. He was ready to cry because he said he had it soooo good at the job and was shocked that people at his post were complaining how little they made. He said he had it great and didn't want to go on strike and the fellow Russian engineers thought the same way. He said he had full benefits, 6 weeks vacation, 65K salary to work maybe 2 hours out of the 8. The rest, he was in a nice comfy office drawing some diagrams or playing cards with fellow MTA employees. He only walked around inspecting tracks about 2 hours out of the work day and so did his fellow engineers and they were complaining that they weren't making enough money or enough vacation time. He was PISSED.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 10:46 AM
Indicators in U.S. Rise More Than Anticipated
Oct. 22 (Bloomberg) -- The index of U.S. leading economic indicators rose in September for a sixth straight month, indicating the economy is likely to expand into early 2010.
The Conference Board’s gauge of the economic outlook for the next three to six months climbed a greater-than-forecast 1 percent, contributing to the biggest six-month gain in 26 years, the New York-based private research group said today. Other reports showed jobless claims rose and home prices fell.
The measures propelling the leading index, including a
declining trend in claims, rising stocks and low short-term
borrowing costs, are stopping the erosion in consumer finances and reducing the risk the economy will backslide. Companies from Caterpillar Inc. to Google Inc. are among those reporting better-than-anticipated earnings and saying the worst slump since the 1930s is over.
“The recovery is here and it’s going to get a little
stronger too,” said Jonathan Basile, an economist at Credit
Suisse in New York, who accurately forecast the gain in the
index. “We are mindful that there are headwinds, like there are in every recovery, but the leading index is telling you there won’t be a double dip” referring to a relapse into a recession. Treasury securities dropped, sending the
yield on the 10-year note up to 3.42 percent from 3.39 percent late yesterday.
Exceeds Forecast
Economists forecast the leading indicators index would
increase 0.8 percent, according to the median of 60 estimates in a Bloomberg News survey. Projections ranged from increases of 0.3 percent to 1.1 percent. The Conference Board revised August figures down to show a 0.4 percent increase from a 0.6 percent previously reported gain.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 10:46 AM
"DH- I dunno. Ask the corporate execs though. Have them fly here on their private, corporate jets to explain."
How has this become a "unions are okay bc CEOs suck more"
Unions suck
white collar CEOs suck
for entirely different reasons.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 10:46 AM
Unions are negotiating for wages for LABOR, not handouts, that's why it's not welfare. Do you people even know what work is???
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:47 AM
We don't need unions at hedge funds. We look out for ourselves. Just like the rank and file, not all of us are bad.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 10:47 AM
quote:
The workers at Stella D'oro were making more like $18-$25, a barely livable wage in NYC.
hey! i fall in that range... and i live in park slope!
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 22, 2009 10:48 AM
DH - Broken Bells is SUPER new - but what I heard yesrterday was amazing! really dug it
no - what's the black keys?
M4L - trustme I was the BIGGEST Knicks fan in 93-94 season, insane and then it all went downhill - I wish the Knicks would represent better
you know who needs a union - Assistants at corporations!
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 10:48 AM
"Ridiculous. That is why so much trade show business goes to friendlier business environments."
benson, I'll be going to the javits later to catch PhotoPlus. See you there?
I don't entirely get your anti-union antipathy. On the one hand, you bemoan landmarking cuz it ruins housing for the working class' then you rail against the same class that would supposedly occupy it!
Some teachers are vastly underpaid, and many are overpaid. But you're not allowed them to be paid according to talent. Bur agree the UFT should get busted up.
Posted by: denton at October 22, 2009 10:49 AM
Maybe I'm way off base elitist robber baron venom-spitting hedge-fund cobra, but I'm guessing 90% of people you'd stop walking down 3rd avenue at lunchtime today would think $500k for being a stagehand is outrageous.
They'd also think that CEO's earning millions is outrageous too.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 10:51 AM
chicken- do you honestly think the only reason prices go up and up is because of the unions? I don't. It's also because management and the heads of corporations wanted to make greater and greater profits so they could throw million dollar parties and buy $6000 shower curtains. There's plenty of blame to toss around. The trend has been a greater separation of rich and poor in this country and studies say that worker salaries have not increased all that much, while salaries at the top have flown out of sight.
Unions are so convenient to scapegoat. They are far from the only problem- and I certainly agree they are a problem. And again- a Head stagehand and a Master carpenter do far more than "move props and equipment" around a stage. I've been looking for a job since I was laid off last December. Does anyone read these job descriptions? They wnat you to be responsible for everything, be able to perform at the highest level, have a great expertise and technical know how, be willing to work long hours and weekends for 8- 10 bucks an hour. No benefits. that's why unions came into being.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 10:51 AM
My dad worked for the MTA and worked HARD as a bus operator. 14 hour days. He doesn't like the TWU because he thinks their in cahoots with the MTA. The biggest problem w/ unions today is their "friendliness" w/ management. Several former TWU heads were rewarded MTA exec positions in exchange for shafting workers. I wish your friends dad was here when we actually made things and working people making good money was the norm. Did your friend's dad want to buy a house, send his kids to college? I don't really believe that he thought he had it too good..
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:52 AM
No Joe we don't, we're all born with silver spoons in our mouths and trust funds for life.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 10:52 AM
100% DH - the two should be discussed separately.
Posted by: the chicken at October 22, 2009 10:54 AM
"The corporation has come to stay, just as the trade union has come to stay. Each can do and has done great good. Each should be favored as long as it does good, but each should be sharply checked where it acts against law and justice."
Theodore Roosevelt
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 10:54 AM
the corruption in docks is gone on forever and not why they moved...they moved because of containers and trucking which is much easier in NJ (and where the corruption and unions still exist). The point is , yes there is corruption and abuse in unions and often they are run more for benefit of leaders not the workers and so conclusion is unionism is bad. Yet when day after day we read about cheating, corruption, scamming, abuses by corporate america somehow don't draw same conclusion - that corporations and their leaders are bad for america and should be eliminated.
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 10:54 AM
I thought so...
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:55 AM
" Does anyone read these job descriptions? They wnat you to be responsible for everything, be able to perform at the highest level, have a great expertise and technical know how, be willing to work long hours and weekends for 8- 10 bucks an hour. No benefits"
Right, so if they paid the stagehand a market-rate salary instead of labor-monopoly rate and had an extra $350K to spend on other employees...
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 10:56 AM
oh Biff you and your Nobel Peace Prize
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 10:57 AM
"I don't entirely get your anti-union antipathy. On the one hand, you bemoan landmarking cuz it ruins housing for the working class' then you rail against the same class that would supposedly occupy it!"
Denton;
Being anti-union is not the same thing as being anti-working-class. My dad is as working-class as they come and as I said above, he detests unions. Unions now represent something like only 15% of private-sector workers. If you excluded the auto and contruction industries, my guess is that the percentage would go down to less than 5%.
The most powerful unions today are actually those representing public-sector employees. I fully agree with Crescent Hill: the most corrupt of these is the UFT.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 10:57 AM
If I were earning 500K a year I would find it outrageous that I weren't making 50M.
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 10:57 AM
The point is , yes there is corruption and abuse in unions and often they are run more for benefit of leaders not the workers and so conclusion is unionism is bad. Yet when day after day we read about cheating, corruption, scamming, abuses by corporate america somehow don't draw same conclusion - that corporations and their leaders are bad for america and should be eliminated.
I agree Pete.
"30 years ago CEO's made 15 times the average worker, in small companies it was more like 4X. Now it's astronomical, in some cases CEO's make 1000's X more. And you wonder who has their hand in the cookie jar? It's not the workers, their real inflation-adjusted wages haven't risen in 20 years"
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:57 AM
"oh Biff you and your Nobel Peace Prize"
We Presidents stick together.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 10:58 AM
some wage inflation is also from political shenanigans. ConEd trucks have an hour built in to get to their jobs & another to get back - most depots serve an area within a 15-minute perimeter. So they can't start a job after lunch that might take more than an hour because they'd have to either stop to get back to the garage or go into approval for overtime - all because of stupid deals negotiated by mayors wanting to be re-elected.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 10:59 AM
"How has this become a "unions are okay bc CEOs suck more"
Unions suck
white collar CEOs suck
for entirely different reasons."
DH- I've stated I don't necessarily think unions are ok. I do object to the seeming elitism and stereotyping of some posters regarding blue collar and rank-and-file workers. (Dave I HATE Roger Toussaint!)
Kens- I was involved in community theater for a long time. Loved it, andI certainly don't think the average carpenter or stagehand should be making that kind of money. But the positions of Head and Master are management and most people here seem to not want to recognize the difference. I worked for years in non=profits- the vast majority of people who work in nonprofits do it for love, not money. Of course don't get me started on the obscene amount of money the head of the Red Cross makes.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 11:00 AM
"DH - Broken Bells is SUPER new - but what I heard yesrterday was amazing! really dug it
no - what's the black keys?"
Thanks!! i'll have to keep an eye out for their stuff, when it becomes available to us normal folk who aren't industry insiders ;)
The Black Keys (and the solo work of their lead singer Dan Auerbach) are amazing!! Like very blues based rock. Their new album was actually produced by Danger mouse
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 11:03 AM
I had an interesting exchange with a UPS delivery guy a few years ago. This was in brooklyn just after I moved. The truck was on my corner and I was just getting home and there was a UPS tag on my door for a failed delivery.
I grabbed the tag and walked over to the truck and asked him for the package and he said he was on his "break" and I was disturbing him.
He finally got off his lazy ass and gave me the package and I said to him:
"So you're really just as lazy as the postal workers now???"
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 11:05 AM
The Tishman ruling is the biggest RE news in NYC in probably a decade (since Pataki passed luxury decontrol) and yet nothing on Brownstoner????? - the ramifications are enormous in so many ways.....
And in other news - NO ONE IS STOPPING THE YANKEES THIS YEAR!
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 11:05 AM
"the corruption in docks is gone on forever and not why they moved...they moved because of containers and trucking which is much easier in NJ (and where the corruption and unions still exist)."
Pete;
I think you are glossing over a little history. One of the prime reasons that container came into being was to put a stop to the widespread pilferage that I mentioned above. Once containers came into being, Brooklyn was no longer suitable and there was no space here to stack them. In effect, the ILA put themselves out of business in Brooklyn.
Moreover, while I'm sure that some corruption still goes on in Jersey, it is a far cry from what went on 20-30 years ago. Guys are no longer guaranteed a full salary on the basis of two conditions a) they were "in" with Anastasia and his successors and b) they went through the pretense of showing up at the hiring hall each morning.
Finally, I never buy moral relevance arguments. No one is defending corporate crooks here.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 11:06 AM
Cresent -- I'm actually an "affiliate" member of the UFT, but happily a member of a different union.
I agree with you about the current "crop" of teachers and the fact that the UFT serves everyone EXCEPT the students and the community. My opinion is that teachers *are* underpaid... as a profession. BUT, I think that the majority of current teachers are far overpaid for what they bring to the table.
Wages for teachers are crap in comparison to most other "professions." The teachers' union has actually helped de-professionalize and commoditize the industry. We are not hiring the best teachers... we are hiring people who are willing to do the work for what we pay them in the conditions we provide. The unions don't want competition or special recognition of superior performance... that would make the other members look bad. So, the result is paying everyone the same and providing the same benefits whether you are a star teacher that is making a difference or a total crap teacher that shouldn't be allowed in a classroom.
I work in Higher Education (though not a professor), I fully support tenure of the professoriate for several reasons... one of which is "academic freedom" narrowly defined. And for other reasons too complicated to get into...
HOWEVER, I do NOT support tenure for school teachers. The freedoms that they require are MORE than protected by the fact that their unionized. And they do require freedoms. The ability to try new pedagogical methods, challenge the administrative structure of a school, etc.
Bad performance or the unwillingness to improve skills/knowledge should not be protected!! No other industry allows this. Even the carpenters union doesn't allow this. If the work changes or evolves, the carpenter's union requires its workers to step up to the challenge (of course there's lots of other issue with these labor unions -- not getting into that).
Teachers should be PAID MORE... but ONLY if they deserve it and have proven it. Underperforming (or non-performing) teachers should be given an ultimatum -- step up or leave. Simple as that.
The UFT is a major obstacle. It crushes the spirit of enthusiastic, innovative new teachers... and allows crappy new teachers to get a permanent job. The net effect is a de-professionalized industry, underperforming schools, and suppressed wages for the excellent teachers (and inflated wages for the dead weight).
Posted by: tybur6 at October 22, 2009 11:06 AM
"Of course don't get me started on the obscene amount of money the head of the Red Cross makes"
Bxgrl - I did a review a few years back on the percentage of my dollar given being used for charitable work rather than overheads. It was quite illuminating and I changed some of my charities as a result. I think there's a site where you can compare.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 11:06 AM
LABOR unions were organized because those doing the labor, and making the products, or providing the services that made management rich, were getting next to nothing, and were worked to death for their troubles. We all know that. The ability to organize and strike was so powerful that the fatcats had no problem hiring thugs and killers to terrorize and kill union organizers and members. That's how much power making money has on people.
Of course, 100 years down the road, it got skewed, and many, one could even say most, unions do more for themselves than for their membership. I would go so far as to say they are not necessary for most industries and trades. I would be the first to say they can be very exclusionary, racist, sexist, and most management is probably corrupt. They have too much power in local and national government, no doubt about it.
So what do we replace them with? Who protects a worker from being dismissed for whistle blowing? For having a baby, or from sexual discrimination? Who's going to have someone's back when the majority of hard working, honest people who are NOT sitting on their asses collecting for nothing, really need an advocate to make sure they are getting a living wage, access to health care, or a safe working environment? Not every company has an HR dept, and rare is the management that even cares about more than production and the bottom line. Who's going to enforce anti-discrimination laws? Unions may have mucked much of this up by being greedy sods themselves, but there has to be someone who advocates for the workers. If it's not a union, it ends up being the government, and we don't want the gobment in our business, or even more bloated than that is. Who advocates for the gov't worker?
In an ideal world, everyone would do what is right, would be fair and equitable, and be paid a living wage, and have the incentives to do better. I don't think unions are gold plated examples of humanity at its best. But what do you replace them with?
Posted by: Montrose Morris at October 22, 2009 11:07 AM
DIBS... did you ever get a package again? :-)
Posted by: tybur6 at October 22, 2009 11:08 AM
THE ANGELS OR PHILLIES WILL STOP THE YANKEES. DON'T COUNT YOUR CHICKENS BEFORE THE HATcH, fsrq, THEY HAVEN'T EVEN MADE IT TO THE SERIES YET.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 11:08 AM
The point is , yes there is corruption and abuse in unions and often they are run more for benefit of leaders not the workers and so conclusion is unionism is bad. Yet when day after day we read about cheating, corruption, scamming, abuses by corporate america somehow don't draw same conclusion - that corporations and their leaders are bad for america and should be eliminated.
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 10:57 AM
Joe, I am not arguing with you about history of unions or whether corporate america is great and deserves high salary. All I am saying that in ALL my personal experience, today, unions have done more bad than good. My friend who has a business in a garment district just told me that one of his biggest clients just moved ALL of his production business to China. He employed about 100 people and was union and he was barely making ends meet and really wanted to keep his employees here but the Union contract was up and they came in and requested 15% increase in pay and dues. His own employees who know the business didn't want the increase because they knew he had it tough and he tried soo hard to negotiate with the union and the union refused completely. So what did he do? He closed the shop, became a middle man and doubled his salary because his overhead was cut majorly. He tried to be the right guy and keep 100 AMERICANS employed and have just a bare minimum salary for himself and guess what, union fucked him so he fucked them and makes MORE money now for LESS work. Who ended up being the losers? the average shop worker that he employed.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 11:10 AM
what do mayors have to do with ConEd employee rules?
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 11:11 AM
I think unions should stay - but defending patently absurd positions weakens the pro-union argument. You expose the union abuses just as you aim to do with white collar crime.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 11:12 AM
PB - Agreements reached in contracts w/ the City.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 11:13 AM
It's very interesting to see how people evaluate work and what its worth. While few of us would argue that a surgeon deserves the money he makes, carpenters, construction workers, factory workers, creative professionals are looked down on, yet the greatest amount of money goes to lawyers and wall streeters. the financial sector, and lawyers. I'm sorry But when there were trade schools, the kids who went to those were considered too stupid to go to college, and looked down on. I really respect the skills of a good carpenter or electrician more than I value those of a CEO. Tradesmen used to be respected for their years of training and skills. the whole urban myth of the overpaid teacher with a cushy, easy job- is exactly that. I see how hard my sister and her husband work- and how much they care about doing a good job. They also spent years in school studying to qualify. Think teachers don't deserve their money? Then don't complain when you can't find good ones.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 11:15 AM
"LABOR unions were organized because those doing the labor, and making the products, or providing the services that made management rich, were getting next to nothing, and were worked to death for their troubles."
Sounds like some of us white collar paper pushers need unions, as that doesn't sound too far off from what's happening today. not everyone who works in the finance field makes tons of money.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 11:16 AM
No one's answering MM. My only stab at it would be fair labor laws, universal insurance & the like - so I guess, gov't. Maybe the world has changed enough w/ instant communication that interest groups would carry enough clout on their own to ensure that laws aren't violated. ILGWU is still a good union for most of its members but it doesn't help immigrants in sweatshops nowadays which was what brought it into being years ago - only laws are working at all for those people.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 11:18 AM
All the arguments pro-union are fine - except none of that applies to public employee unions.
Public Unions should be ILLEGAL - in a democracy public workers have too much power, they get "two bites of the apple"- they have the power to elect the "management" and then they get too negotiate their salaries and pensions with these same people.
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 11:22 AM
Bxgrl;
I know MANY a non-unionized plumber and electrician who make a very good salary, or who have their own business and do well - perhaps making more then me. Good for them. Someone appreciates their work, and feels that it is worth this much. Once again, I think that this is great.
I don't detect that anyone in this thread is trying to demean blue-collar work. As I wrote to Denton, being against the excesses of unionism is not the same thing as being against blue-collar workers. Kens' post above is another demonstration of that.
Likewise with teachers. I think Tybur6's post is spot on. Excellent teachers should be paid very well. Poorly-performing teachers should not. Thanks to the UFT, that is not the current situation.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 11:23 AM
I really respect the skills of a good carpenter or electrician more than I value those of a CEO.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 11:15 AM
bxgrl, some good carpenters and electricians make great money as we have seen with Carnegie Hall. You pay for people what you get out of it. If you hire an electrician and he screwes up, you pay say $30,000 to fix his biggest mistake (let's say your whole wiring burns for some reason). If a stockbroker screws up, he/she can potentially lose your whole retirement portfolio which is work wayyyy more for an average joe. So you pay salaries that pertain to those things. Electrician doesn't have to account and make decisions for 5,000 employees and CEOs due. You can easily go out and hire different electricians and carpenters. if a CEO of Google leaves tomorrow, how many people out there do you think can do his/her job effectively? We have market economics. Supply/Demand. Free market should rule salaries. Not unions or personal opinions of who should be making how much money. If teachers get paid soooo little that no one wants to do it, how come there are 1,000s on waiting lists to go to graduate education programs. My friend just finished columbia masters and is keeping her fingers crossed that she can land a position with NYC board of Ed. She is also on the waiting list in Maryland and will have to move to some remote location if they don't call her in the next 3 months.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 11:24 AM
I was at UNION hall. Does that count as paying my dues?
Posted by: Tara in the Slope at October 22, 2009 11:24 AM
DIBS - The Yankees will get to the series (do you really doubt that) and then crush the Phillies- Philly has no one in the pen.
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 11:24 AM
bxgrl -- I couldn't agree with you more. I think you have supported my statements above. You sister and her husband, hard working, try to be innovative, want to make a difference... Their wages pretty much suck, right? (relatively speaking) And they get little to no recognition otherwise for their efforts, right? (Especially not from their union who is preoccupied with "protecting tenure" and "raising wages")
Will your sister and her husband burn out long before retirement? Probably. There is no incentive or stimulation... their industry is de-professionalized and the UFT has no intention of reversing that trend because it would sound the death knell of "equal" wages and probably tenure. The system is completely based on *seniority* and has nothing to do with ability, performance or leadership qualities.
Posted by: tybur6 at October 22, 2009 11:25 AM
That is because - too easy to move garment jobs abroad to 3rd world sweatshops...as Kens friend just did. Make more money that way. So difficult to unionize exportable labor effectively. Corps have no qualms about conditions workers endure or pay offshore. Give themselves big fat bonuses put workers here and paying taxes earning $20 an hour out of work and think they are geniuses and entitled to every million they make (yet are outraged that you would raise their taxes).
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 11:25 AM
It's also a big city thing, the breeding grounds for bad politics, bad laws and therefore unions. Most electricians/plumbers/carpenters etc outside large cities are not union and do fine.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 11:25 AM
ditto- I'll look for that. I remember it was an issue after 9-11 because the Salvation Army showed up the Red Cross when it came to delivering what was needed (I think 75% of every donated dollar) and in efficient management.
Believe me, I have no problem with reining in unions. Listening to some of the stories from my brother in law and sister I also don't think they work for their own constituents. Kens- as I noted before, my father was driven out of business by the unions because his shop voted not to join. He told them he would go with whatever they wanted and they voted no. I have no love for them but like Montrose I am asking- what is the answer?
I'll also say that even without unions, I think companies would still do anything, no mater how ruthless or detrimental to our economy, to make an ever greater and greater profit. If a worker in China is paid .50 and here they are paid $10.00, the company will go to China. Halliburton moved its offices to Dubai to avoid US taxes- considering they got so much money in government contracts and made a fortune, I think that sucks far more than a $500,000/yr salary for a master carpenter.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 11:26 AM
m4l....you better get over to the Forum. Someone has posted your ad campaign there!!!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 11:27 AM
"carpenters, construction workers, factory workers, creative professionals are looked down on,"
You're equating what society thinks someone should be paid with how much esteem scoiety holds those persons in.
As a medical researcher I got paid $27K a year for about a 72 hour week. To my knowledge I was never held in low-esteem by anyone, in fact I was held in higher esteem than my current job. I don't think anyone here, from Benson to DIBS, holds carpenters or factory workers or any other hard-worker in low esteem. But that doesn't mean they think they should be paid silly money.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 11:28 AM
MORE ON TISHMAN....they are lining up their bankruptcy. the real loserds are the bondholders for the loans. This will be the largest loss in CMBS history.
The tenants will never see a dime.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 11:30 AM
BTW - Bxgrl and others seem to miss the way people are compensated - it isnt based on utility (if that was the case nannies, teachers, nurses and primary care physicians would be paid the highest and baseball players would be paid the lowest)
Labor is paid EXACTLY like most other commodities - supply/demand=what people are willing to pay. That simple. It is relatively easy to become a carpenter or a plumber (not necessarily a good one or an honest one) but it is very difficult to be a relief pitcher (or to become a CEO) and people seem to value the later - so they are willing to pay lots of $ for them. Even if their societal usefulness is limited or even a negative.
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 11:31 AM
Sorry for my major grammar and spelling mistakes. Hopefully my point gets across fine. I am loving the discussions today but crazy busy at work and no time to proofread.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 11:31 AM
"carpenters, construction workers, factory workers, creative professionals are looked down on,"
I certainly do not look down upon anyone who learns a trade and works hard. it takes a lot of work to become a licensed electrician and plumber.
Creative professionals are a different story. :)
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 11:33 AM
"MORE ON TISHMAN....they are lining up their bankruptcy. the real loserds are the bondholders for the loans"
Can't say I've an ounce of sympathy for them. It was a boneheaded business move from square 1 - and PLENTY of people said so at the time (and not months after when it was obviuous things were going pear-shaped).
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 11:33 AM
The net effect is a de-professionalized industry, underperforming schools, and suppressed wages for the excellent teachers (and inflated wages for the dead weight).
Posted by: tybur6 at October 22, 2009 11:06 AM
Agreed. Thx for the add'l insight. I will add that I believe NYC Public School teachers are not victims of the suppression of wages, but I suspect that those teaching outside of the UFT fueled propaganda scope are perhaps not adequately compensated. I know that those who teach in parochial schools are paid much less that union boosted public school teachers. Ripe with nepotism, corruption and old school anarchist teaching staff membership, the UFT needs critical reform. PS. Bloomberg ( grew up knowing many teachers, knows of all the old line corruption that went on years ago , ( as did Giuliani- once married to a teacher) Bloomberg is in the know, this is why they will stand with Thompson who will fall in line with the socialist myth they have worked so hard to perpetuate.
Posted by: Crescent Hill at October 22, 2009 11:34 AM
DIBS - the decision goes FAR FAR beyond Stuy Twn - LL have be decontrolling J-51 buildings for over a decade now - EVERY single one of those apartments falls under this decision.
Get ready for a big push to remedy this legislatively - there is no way this can hold.
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 11:34 AM
Alright, let's move on to a more vital subject..
FSRG, a good portion of the OT a few weeks ago was devoted to speculation about the meaning of your acronym/handle.
Care to let us know??? We'll even take a characterization of it.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 11:35 AM
Yeah ditto I agree on Stuy Town - I mean they couldnt even make it WITH decontrolling those apartments - but what about the other owners who based upon the law and the ok of every Govt agency decontrolled apartments over the last 11 years and are now liable for TREBLE damages. This will be some mess.
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 11:37 AM
Mike's "truth" is much like his previous support of term limits - subject to change.
Bloomy: Past Praise for Foe Thompson Was Just 'Polite'
NEW YORK (AP/1010 WINS) -- Mayor Michael Bloomberg says he was just being "polite'' when he once said his Democratic opponent might be the best comptroller New York City has ever had.
The billionaire mayor was asked Thursday about the compliment he gave William Thompson Jr. in 2007, long before they were political opponents.
Bloomberg praised Thompson during a commencement speech at Tufts University, Thompson's alma mater.
The mayor now says he was just being polite. He says it was a commencement speech -- what would you expect him to say?
Thompson has used a clip of Bloomberg's comment in a television ad.
Bloomberg is not a member of any party but the former Republican is running on the Republican and Independent Party lines.
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 11:37 AM
ditto, the whole Stuy Town investment was a house of cards given the assumptions of deregulation. i don't know how they sold it to investors
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 11:38 AM
Bxgrl - if you're using Halliburton and fucked up i-banks as the benchmark for saying all CEOs are crooks that's messed up. There's plenty of good ones out there.
Thats kinda saying since there have been a few shootings in crown heights - everyone there is a criminal - not accurate or fair.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 11:38 AM
tyburg- yes I do agree. Yes the laws should be changed so union corruption is brought under control and actually, I think fsrg makes a very valid point about the public sector (again, a little hesitant about lumping teachers in this)unions. And I certainly think there should be a merit system. In fact (I'm foaming at the mouth slightly here), I would love to see a law in place that allows the city to fire public sector workers who don't perform, and who go out on illegal strike.
Kens- you right, of course. Ans actually that was my point about a Master Carpenter and Head Stagehand at Carnegie. It falls on them, at that level to ensure not only that everything works properly, but that it does it safely. One badly constructed stage set and you have a multimillion dollar lawsuit. the stage lights fall down and catch fire- kiss Carnegie goodbye. But at the average rank and file level- no question the salaries should be commensurate.
benson- this discussion long ago erased the lines between union management and the rank and file. Not to mention the slaps at us "creative professionals."
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 11:38 AM
When I'd like to read it - probably funny.
Its just an acronym that is easy for me to remember, nothing all that sinister
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 11:41 AM
fsrq -- that's way to simple of a perspective... not incorrect, but only a sliver of the full picture. There wouldn't be unions (of any sort) if there wasn't a demand for the services the workers provide. However, the unionization of the workers of these services *potentially* causes a distortion of your simplistic demand curve.
In the case of teachers, the demand is not just for warm bodies, the demand is for qualified and *excellent* teachers. However, the UFT doesn't discriminate and doesn't allow the market to operate. Utility absolutely comes into play here. A given industry or job is not homogeneous. It's not Baseball Player or CEO vs Laborer or Sandwich Maker... the issue is Ikea Furniture vs. Handcrafted Danish Modern. Both credenzas hold your napkins and vinyl records... but the latter is better. A crappy teacher fills the chair in the front of the classroom, but the energetic, innovative, hard-working teaching is better!
Posted by: tybur6 at October 22, 2009 11:44 AM
"not accurate or fair"
Since when has that ever been a consideration in a Brownstoner post???
;-)
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 11:45 AM
fsrq = Fedders Sell Real Quick?
:-)
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 11:47 AM
Anyone have any good recipes for cats?
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 11:47 AM
""carpenters, construction workers, factory workers, creative professionals are looked down on,"
You're equating what society thinks someone should be paid with how much esteem scoiety holds those persons in. "
Actually, I think the discussion pretty much proves the point. I know people with far more years of professional education who work in nonprofits at high management levels, and they make half of what a first year lawyer does. A good surgeon is worth his weight in gold- so is a good electrician. Considering how many fires are electrical, I think its fair to say a good electrician is also responsible for life (yes, I'm so stretching it :). But how many people would respect an electrician's work or think he should earn what a surgeon does?
If we decided to work out a system for really paying people what they are worth, I would be so curious to see what develops.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 11:48 AM
"Bxgrl - if you're using Halliburton and fucked up i-banks as the benchmark for saying all CEOs are crooks that's messed up. There's plenty of good ones out there.
Thats kinda saying since there have been a few shootings in crown heights - everyone there is a criminal - not accurate or fair
"
or that unions are bad thing because of some abuses and corruption?
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 11:48 AM
There are excellent CEOs - Jim Burke of J&J is my corporate hero & there're others.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 11:49 AM
city schools have problem with keeping best/experienced teachers because they get paid significantly more in suburbs under better working conditions.
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 11:49 AM
fsrq, I said exactly the same thing few posts above :o)
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 11:49 AM
For Sale Real Quick
Forced Sign in ReQuired
Fresh Salmon and Real Quince
For Silence, Real Quiet
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 11:49 AM
Unions - Bad
CEOs / Execs making ridiculous pay - Bad
both bad. not mutually exclusive things. they both get their pay cause of leverage in their favor. regardless, it doesn't mean I have to like fact unions jack up some items/svcs I encounter daily. Not arguing why I'm correct in not liking unions. I just dont. Anyone who wants to sway me to liking unions, just give me monthly fees to offset the union premium I see in the items & svcs
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 11:51 AM
Flush Stagehand Results in Querimony
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 11:52 AM
Quick is not Good.
It's a 'G'
Posted by: Tara in the Slope at October 22, 2009 11:52 AM
bxgrl -- There is a law to "fire" public employees that don't perform. I'm referring to those protected by tenure. It's almost impossible to fire a teacher or professor that has tenure for not doing a good job (underperforming), but if they refuse to do their job or most of their job -- i.e., "I'll teach one course per semester, but I'm not going to do anything else... no meetings, no research, no advising, nothing." They can actually be brought up on felony larceny charges... stealing public funds.
This happens... not often, but it happens.
Mandatory retirement was outlawed, so this became a necessary and painful remedy to rotting old professors that refused to leave, but had no intention of working anymore.
Posted by: tybur6 at October 22, 2009 11:52 AM
Officially
FSRQ = Financial Services Reputation Quotient
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 11:52 AM
CGar, Tara showed up. Time to bake that tray of good fresh tasty brownies. I aint joking. I intend to collect
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 11:53 AM
"or that unions are bad thing because of some abuses and corruption?"
no - unions are all bad because they stifle competition, which promotes inefficient work at higher prices. and then people flip out when jobs are outsourced or move overseas?
Unions are against the freemarket principles our economy is based on.
lets call a union what it really is - a labor trust.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 11:54 AM
m4l...get over to the Forum...you're name is being disparaged!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 11:55 AM
Financial Services are Really Great
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 11:56 AM
tybur6 - And I have no major issue with private unionization within certain limits (just like management needs to have limits) - for example Card Check was a recipie for disaster and I am impressed that Obama has effectively killed it.
I am just addressing the complaint that people do not get what they "deserve" based on their societal benefit. Its a nice point to make but adds little practical benefit - our labor markets are setup that way and I am not sure that if they were we wouldnt just end up with a lot of out of work Carpenters and tradesman (or teachers or whatever you highly value).
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 11:58 AM
DH,
you would have fit right in during late 19th, early 20th century.
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 11:58 AM
DIBS, more like his name is being disposed!
Hate to see that happen to such a great guy
(no "hom sup lo" mo)
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 11:59 AM
DH- not trying to say all CEOs and corporations are corrupt- they aren't. Just using examples to show it isn't all on the unions. This discussion was heavily skewed toward blaming the unions for all our economic problems. It's my creatively professional way of promoting abuse for all :)
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 12:01 PM
Bxgrl, I am glad that we agree on this and I agree with all of the points above you made as well.
"But how many people would respect an electrician's work or think he should earn what a surgeon does?"
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 11:48 AM
Oh come on now, one wires the house the other one SAVES your life. What's more important here? I respect both but I'll be the first to say that I respect a surgeon more and think he deserves WAY more money. That's someone who deals with human life day in and out. Electrician can cut corners and get away with it, surgeon cannot. Can you rewire a house (given you are an experienced electrician) after a night of getting hammered with friends? YES. Can you reattach nerves in a spinal fusion surgery after the same night? ish don't think so.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 12:01 PM
For Sure Really Quixotic
G?
Finanacially Sound Rich Gambler
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 12:02 PM
"NO ONE IS STOPPING THE YANKEES THIS YEAR!"
NOW you go it, fsrg! A week ago you told me to keep quiet about the Yankees' roll to the championship, worrying about a jinx. Screw that sh!t!! The Yanks are going ALL the way, man! Five more wins to the championship!!
Yeah, the Phillies did OK, Dave. You were right, they got to the series. But it's the end of the road now. No repeat. The Foolies won't survive a tangle with the Yanks.
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 12:02 PM
Kens - depends what hotel he stayed at
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 12:03 PM
I mean fsrq.
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 12:04 PM
I had my say on the M4L thread. I think his gut rehab went horribly wrong :-o
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 12:05 PM
DH,
you would have fit right in during late 19th, early 20th century.
It's funny how so many fake liberals / closet social Darwinists there are. I consider myself moderatley libertarian/conservative and the lack of respect for working men and woman here is shocking to me.
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 12:05 PM
Unions are about workers getting together and negotiating a contract. Strength through numbers, the same logic behind a corporation or ANY type of organization. Maybe if we still made things in this country I wouldn't have to explain this to you...
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 12:07 PM
"the lack of respect for working men and woman here is shocking to me."
I fully respect and support working women.
In fact, I support many of them financially.
Posted by: Sad sad little man at October 22, 2009 12:08 PM
DH -- I don't think a 'labor trust' is necessarily a bad thing. You're correct, unions do force wages up (or at least guarantee a floor). Is that a terrible thing? I'm not defending the absurd wages that several unions have negotiated for unskilled workers -- but they do provide, what I consider, appropriate protection from the evil side of the market... skilled workers being undercut and undercut because that's what the market *wants* to pay. Remember this little economic crisis we're currently in? The Friedman approach to economic theory sort of fell apart... no?
That being said, I'm of the opinion that the 'socialist' ethos of unions subsidizes underperformance and stifles excellence. (We may be in agreement here) Even with everything I've said about the UFT and the dysfunction of the school teacher profession... the unions keep wages at a level that allows the teachers to actually live IN the city where they teach. This is not the case with the private schools in this town.
(Now should all of the public school teachers keep their jobs? Hell no. I bet this school system could deal with a 25% culling of the dead wood!!)
Posted by: tybur6 at October 22, 2009 12:08 PM
farts sound really queefy?
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 12:08 PM
Kens- you'll note I said I was stretching it! But in some ways, I do see them as somewhat equivalent. And the scary thing is how many doctors and surgeons have a drinking problem. And really- would you want an electrician to rewire your house with a hangover? Think about it- more people die from electrical fires than from brain surgery.
I'm not saying an electrician and a doctor should make the same salary- I would just like people to show as much respect for each craft (as it were). On the other hand, a CEO makes far more than most doctors (DH? Over to you :)
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 12:10 PM
"It's funny how so many fake liberals / closet social Darwinists there are. I consider myself moderatley libertarian/conservative and the lack of respect for working men and woman here is shocking to me."
Oh please, everyone is now harping on about the "lack of respect for for working men and women" when the argument has actually been around the rights and wrongs of unions. Such goal-post moving and not-so-subtle insult might work on a politcal TV debate but here - no.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 12:11 PM
LOL or perhaps just four names like Frank Sam Robert George.....
but whatever you guys like
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 12:12 PM
"I would just like people to show as much respect for each craft (as it were)"
Mr B could set up a survey/widget for us.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 12:12 PM
"I'm not saying an electrician and a doctor should make the same salary"
Why not? They both often have to deal with faulty wiring.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 12:12 PM
How do you support them Dave?
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 12:13 PM
Joe and Bxgrl;
You are both claiming that there is disprespect for working-class people here, but I fail to see it. What folks are complaining about is how unions distort the natural pricing structure that is necessary for economic growth.
I'll give my own situation as an example. I've spent my entire career in an industry (Fiber-optic components) that is quickly moving to Asia and is becoming a commodity. As a result, my "pricing power" with respect to my salary is weakening, even though I am at an age (52) where retirement is not yet in the cards. Should I adopt a union mentality and create an artificial demand for my services (WHICH, I can tell you from watching this situation upclose, is a debilitating experience to a person)? Or should I be a free person, with a free mind, and adopt myself to another profession that pays a salary that I desire? That is what this comes down to, at least to me. I believe in the credo that the WSJ proclaims: "Free men, and free markets". That is not what unionism is about.
If folks want to join a private-sector union, that's fine with me. As M4L stated above, if I feel I'm not getting good value from union labor, I'll take my money elsewhere. In my experience, I do not get good value.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 12:15 PM
ENY - I am still a bit worried about jinx's but as long as Girardi stays away from his f'ing binder I dont see how the Angels or the Phillies can beat them.
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 12:16 PM
"How do you support them Dave?"
Joe, I can assure you that Dave supports working men more than almost anyone else in the world.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 12:17 PM
I think wages should be based on how nasty the work is...
* Brain surgeon -- high wage because of training req't, but not that high because it's pretty tidy.
* Plumber -- very high wage because of training AND it's effing gross what they have to deal with. It's not all natural gas lines and new faucets!
Posted by: tybur6 at October 22, 2009 12:18 PM
I don't see any contempt of labor here. I've worked on both sides - management & labor (as a freelance you're always schizo that way); I've been a techie & a roadie as well as "the creative" & a producer. There's equal joy & sweat in all those endeavors as well as a satisfaction in knowing how to do a job well. We started w/ talking about those who don't do a job well - or at all. That's a far cry from denigrating workers.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 12:19 PM
[Stands on table] [Holds sign high]
"UNION! UNION! UNION! UNION! UNION!"
Posted by: Norma_Rae at October 22, 2009 12:19 PM
DH - am diggin the Black Keys - am on their myspace rightnow - i love their sound
GO YANKS! - trying to get to go to the world series for next week! tickets though are a weee bit insane at the moment
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 12:19 PM
benson- whatever. Of course no CEO or manager would ever do anything to distort that. Every single one of them is totally worth his bloated salary and bonuses.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 12:20 PM
"natural pricing structure "...there's a new one. I am always suspect then someone argues what is 'natural'...no matter what the subject.
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 12:21 PM
Joe - see Dave's old post about his new brownstone stoop, how much he paid for it, and the local workers that were employed to do it.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 12:21 PM
$500,000 for a master carpenter?
lol
What would Jesus do?
Posted by: Legion at October 22, 2009 12:23 PM
What would Matt Damon do...
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 12:23 PM
Joe, no one hates the working man/woman here. We are just stating that today's unions mostly don't work as intended to. Stop being a hard head will ya :o).
Most of my union friends and family members HATE unions themselves because they work hard and know they are keeping their jobs because of unions. Here is a perfect example. My mom's hospital is union and has horrible conditions. Sloane Kettering is non union hospital and is serviced and is great (from personal experience). They had pretty bad conditions and employees got together (nurses and doctors mostly) and complained to management and go their way. They didn't have a union, they just joined together and complained for common good of the workplace. It worked effectively without the union need. Same theory as a union of getting together effectively without union dues and union policies of seniority and such.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 12:23 PM
"Every single one of them is totally worth his bloated salary and bonuses."
If the shareholders agree - yes. Problem is that alot of shareholders are asleep at the switch.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 12:24 PM
- I fully respect and support working women.
In fact, I support many of them financially.
Posted by: Sad sad little man at October 22, 2009 12:08 PM
I thought Sad sad little man supported working MEN!
Has he switched union labor?
Maybe the poser supports working Women?
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 12:24 PM
arkady- the discussion started over salary levels for head stagehand and master carpenter at Carnegie Hall and it was hardly complimentary. Only a bit later did it get to doing a job well.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 12:25 PM
Oh please, everyone is now harping on about the "lack of respect for for working men and women" when the argument has actually been around the rights and wrongs of unions. Such goal-post moving and not-so-subtle insult might work on a politcal TV debate but here - no.
You're right DIBS was FULL of respect for the Stella D'oro workers. Now I'm being accused of being a beleeding heart liberal... I feel like Bush is still prez...
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 12:27 PM
Legion, that's funny. I posted my comment at 12:23 before seeing your 12:23 post.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 12:27 PM
agreed, benson! Of course, they're asleep on the union side too- which seems to mean they are in bed together. Or at least switching together. :)
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 12:28 PM
BTW what in the world does "working men and women" even mean? I work (when not wasting time like now), I'm a man, - do I qualify?
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 12:30 PM
"common good of the workplace"
Kens- if everyone cared as much about that it would be a totally different (and far better) world.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 12:30 PM
"$500,000 for a master carpenter?"
$500,000 for a master bater. Totally worth it.
Posted by: Norma_Rae at October 22, 2009 12:31 PM
this state is bloated left and right,
last year they had an article in the post on the highest paid workers at the Port Authority.
they had gardeners making 200K with overtime.
the state run mental health institutions have similar bloat, they have nurses making more than the doctors.
psychiatric nurses pulling in 200k. When asked about it, the administrators said that they were in a hiring freeze and so they had to pay double/triple time for overtime work with employed health care workers.
if you know the right people you can get into one of these jobs.
funny, I never heard any college recruiters talking about going to work for the Port Authority or the Stage Manager's union or the Plumber's union. They apparently get paid well and have benefits with retirement pensions.
that may be part of the problem today, everyone in our society is programmed to think they are all supposed to be rocket scientists.
Posted by: Legion at October 22, 2009 12:33 PM
Legion, that's funny. I posted my comment at 12:23 before seeing your 12:23 post.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 12:27 PM
LOL. I was about to say Biffy, you have your Damons and Willis's wrong. Or is it Demons and Willies?
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 12:34 PM
biff,
is Matt Damon Catholic by any chance?
Posted by: Legion at October 22, 2009 12:34 PM
"I'm being accused of being a beleeding heart liberal
Actually I've little interest in the way some Americans see only two alternatives - liberal or republican. Where I'm from liberal is in the middle between labor and conservative - there's more than one way!
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 12:34 PM
Working Woman - Good Union
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKQcWEXSKU
Working Women - Bad Union
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ_KbwEVBjU
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 12:36 PM
fsrg- we're not sure. We'll have to check with the union rep and get back to you. If you are, there will be a 15% fee taken out of your salary. If you are a woman, you gain 15%- a nod to your superiority ;)
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 12:36 PM
$500,000 for a master bater. Totally worth it.
Posted by: Norma_Rae at October 22, 2009 12:31 PM
ROB!!!! You're in a wrong field. Look how much your beanbag can make you. You can buy one of those Brownstones. All you need to do is become a Master master bater.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 12:36 PM
Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!
Posted by: Legion at October 22, 2009 12:36 PM
"Most of my union friends and family members HATE unions themselves because they work hard and know they are keeping their jobs because of unions."
???
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 12:37 PM
legion- LOL!!!
Could you talk louder? I couldn't hear that.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 12:39 PM
"everyone in our society is programmed to think they are all supposed to be rocket scientists."
Interesting point, legion, BH [a former actual rocket scientist] and I were discussing same last night.
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 12:40 PM
I meant "know they are NOT keeping jobs because of the unions."
Apologies.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 12:40 PM
bxgrl,
so you get pro-rated for having a Y chromosome now? that's it, I'm seeing a genetic couselor.
Posted by: Legion at October 22, 2009 12:40 PM
Not a fan of unions for the reasons already cited. They were useful once (pre-war), but have destroyed a lot of manufacturing industry by pricing themselves out.
Now they only have any power in teh public sector, where they mostly seem to inconveniene the general public.
Unlike many conservatives though, I do support minimum / living wage legislation, provided it is set at the right level.
Posted by: etson at October 22, 2009 12:41 PM
what's today's recipe?
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 12:41 PM
OK...FULL DISCLOSURE..And you HAD to know this was coming.
I used to get f*^%d by a Teamster.
The first guy i ever lived with was chamoran, a native of Guam. After he finally moved in he confided in me that he was a card-carrying (lierally) member of the teamsters Union.
It seems that the Teamsters had organized the Univesity of Chicago library staff where he worked.
He was also pretty far to the left and had some heated arguements with all my Republican friends!!!
he lives here in Manhattan now and has had a long career with law firms.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 12:42 PM
Not a fan of unions for the reasons already cited. They were useful once (pre-war), but have destroyed a lot of manufacturing industry by pricing themselves out.
Now they only have any power in teh public sector, where they mostly seem to inconveniene the general public.
So we should compete with Chinese slave labor by becoming slave labor?
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 12:43 PM
MADD - Mothers Against Drunken Drivers
DAM - Mothers Against Dyslexia
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 12:43 PM
legion- I think you need to see more than just a genetic counselor ;)
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 12:43 PM
Here's what's for dinner....
http://www.unionoysterhouse.com/Pages/dinner.html
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 12:44 PM
So now the truth comes out- dave will f*ck anyone! benson- you need to reconsider your Republican affiliate here.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 12:45 PM
I used to get f*^%d by a Teamster.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 12:42 PM
DAVE!!! You know we are not talking about the same kind of f*%&^ing. We are talking about the type that bends you over and gives it to you real hard by a Union.
Oh wait..... maybe we are talking about the same kinds of f&^%ing.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 12:46 PM
Big difference between slave labor and the pay & conditions the UAW workers, for example, enjoyed.
Posted by: etson at October 22, 2009 12:46 PM
No need to disrespect hardworking foreign workers.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 12:46 PM
cobblehiller,
yeah, it's like after the 70's everyone ran to get the advanced degrees while the trade unionists said, "suckers".
BH was a rocket scientist? how do you win any arguments at home?lol
Posted by: Legion at October 22, 2009 12:48 PM
"No need to disrespect hardworking foreign workers."
or slacking ones, for that matter...
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 12:50 PM
kens,
lol, too much.
Posted by: Legion at October 22, 2009 12:51 PM
ditto, Guam is a U.S. Territory. Although they may look "furin" (which is whay i was attracted), they are not.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 12:52 PM
fsrq, you can't bame Girardi for over-managing...his team is so dominant he's getting bored! Yeah, he out-thought himself with the Robertson-for-Aceves switch, but otherwise he's been BETTER than Torre in managing the bullpen. Everyone's allowed one mistake. Plus he clearly has made the right call benching Jorge for Molina when AJ pitches. I love Jorge, but he definitely needs a day off at times. I still don't know what he was thinking the other night with some of the things we did out there. Doesn't matter in the end. The Yanks are fully loaded.
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 12:53 PM
ok sorry to change topic
does anyone watch Modern Family on ABC?
by far the funniest TV show I have watched in years! (aside from Office/30Rock/How I met your mother)
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 12:54 PM
"So now the truth comes out- dave will f*ck anyone!"
As we say in the media business, "I don't think that qualifies as 'news.'"
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 12:55 PM
DIBS, I was talking about Joe's "Chinese slave labor"
I'm sure you have something to say about that..
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 12:55 PM
Yes, he worked on missile guidance systems for a name you would know. Think sewing machines. But that was a long time ago.
He's a whole lot brighter and better edumacated than me, but he "lets" me win a few! ; ) He is, in fact, the Better Half.
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 12:56 PM
Glad to keep you entertained Legion.
Lunch time!!!!! I am sticking with sushi today. yummmm.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 12:56 PM
DIBS... you're going to Beantown?
Posted by: tybur6 at October 22, 2009 12:56 PM
does anyone watch Modern Family on ABC?
I don't watch it but Sofia Vergara. ay ay ay
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 12:57 PM
The drivers seat cloth on my 25 year old American made sedan is begining to tear... I blame the Unions.... and Dick Van Patten!
Posted by: Crescent Hill at October 22, 2009 12:59 PM
Why do all discussion eventually segue into one of three topics:
-cats;
-Sarah Palin
-DIBS' sex life??
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 1:00 PM
Haven't been to Boston in many years but always loved the Union Oyster House.
I'll have more to say about me and the Union in a week or so. That's the Union as in the North vs. the South.
On the other union issue, i am a firm supporter of illegal immigrants.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 1:01 PM
"I don't watch it but Sofia Vergara. ay ay ay"
I don't really care for SV.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 1:02 PM
dito, yes it's hilarious but I didn't catch last nights.
Posted by: DeLepp at October 22, 2009 1:02 PM
last night's was good - it was the ep before that I was laughing out loud
SV is hot - totally
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 1:04 PM
Biff, of course I saw you as a competitor so I'm relieved to know that
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 1:05 PM
Stories abound today about the F87k ups at the IRS giving away almost $4MM to unqualified first time home buyers, mostly fraudulently under the age of 18 submitting claims...580 of them!!!
YEAH, HEALTH CARE WILL SURELY BE RUN MORE EFFICIENTLY BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Sewing the seeds for a republican landslide in 2012
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 1:05 PM
So tired from shopping this morning. I can no longer stand the smell of the produce department. It was intensely vile to my jaded nostrils. I had to ask someone (a lady with a little baby) if she'd be so kind as to get me 3 onions and tie off the bag. She did it very graciously and said she went through the same thing.
Gem!! Good to see you! Modern Family is THE best new show on TV. So funny. "My mom said you're a coal digger!"
Union blah blah blah union... That's my summary of this mornings conversation. I read some great points along the way by both sides but it was too much to digest in it's entirety.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 1:05 PM
DIBS;
I'm thinking 2010!!
Then again,I am not a great mind. I don't have a Nobel.
;-)
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 1:08 PM
Biff I'm sensing that you're really not into the vavavoom girls. Kim K., SV. So prefer a more lithe lady?
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 1:09 PM
Just Googled SV (Sofia Vergara). Yes, she is on fiya.
I must have been thinking of another SV.
Sofia Vergara = Noneedfor Viagra
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 1:10 PM
I agree w/ DIBS. The gov't should stay the F out.= of health care
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 1:10 PM
Gem- Episode before this was the best ever. When the husband came home saying "I was in a plane crash!" I couldn't catch my breth I was laughing so hard!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 1:11 PM
"They had pretty bad conditions and employees got together (nurses and doctors mostly) and complained to management and go their way. They didn't have a union, they just joined together and complained for common good of the workplace. It worked effectively without the union need. Same theory as a union of getting together effectively without union dues and union policies of seniority and such." Kensingtonian
Nothing wrong with that...
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 1:13 PM
dibs, so much for life, liberty and the pursuit
can't wait for some govt union employee to tell me how I should expend my energies.....
Posted by: DeLepp at October 22, 2009 1:14 PM
"Sofia Vergara = Noneedfor Viagra"
"I agree w/ DIBS. The gov't should stay the F out.= of health care"
Perhpas we could have a cost-cutting Viagra TV channel where SV runs around naked thus avoiding the afflicted male the need to pay Pfizer.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 1:14 PM
THL!!!! - yipppeee - I mean how great is that show
my favorite is the gay couple and Mannie!
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 1:15 PM
THL - oh totallly!
that dad kills me everytime
but what had me rolling was Shelly Long playing the mother at the wedding
omg - am forgetting, Dylan and his song!
omg omg omg omg
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 1:18 PM
I deeply heart Manny.
When Cameron (the heavyset gay) was telling Jay (Ed O'Neil) how hot he was and that he was 'TOTALLY his type' I was roaring! Uhm, that's your husband's dad!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 1:18 PM
ENY- I am nothing if not a master of stating (and restating) the obvious. it's the subtle stuff that escapes me- as in where are those brain cells I just had in my head?
benson- we knew that :) Hey ENY- look! benson does it too!
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 1:19 PM
g10, manny is droll beyond his years.
Posted by: DeLepp at October 22, 2009 1:20 PM
THL - stop am laughing out loud in my office.
Or when Ed O'neill asks Mannie why he's drinking coffee and he non-chalantly replies "I'm Colombian"!
I ADORE Cameron!!! - he's my favorite
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 1:21 PM
Cameron's mother weight scene had me in tears. I'm hoping to watch last nights epi on-line somewhere.
Posted by: DeLepp at October 22, 2009 1:22 PM
http://www.freakingnews.com/Celebrities-Upside-Down-Pictures--1889-0.asp
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 1:22 PM
ENY - I have a couple of issues with Girardi's moves (beyond the absolutely brainless Robertson Aceves move - there was no justification whatsoever for that move - truly bizzare)
for example I think pinch running Garner in the 7th was a mistake (and the guy has got to run - on the right count - when he goes in),
and agreed on Posada - his bat has been good but I dont know where his head is - not knowing the out, getting caught in a run down on a hit back to the pitcher, etc....He has got to wake up
Can you imagine how good the Yankees would be this post-season if Texiera's bat matched his amazing glove?? or if Swisher, Matsui or Cano really started hitting.
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 1:22 PM
Anyone watch Fringe? Anyone notice how good Fox is when it comes to fiction shows? Even a diehard lib (centrist, however) like moi recognizes that.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 1:23 PM
you people are tedious today with this union talk. ZZZZZZ
THL had it right and at least tried to switch the topic to Onions. which is infinitely more intesting to discuss. anyone like to eat raw onions? i love it!!! i love that burning nose feeling after biting into a raw onion.
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 22, 2009 1:24 PM
"Biff I'm sensing that you're really not into the vavavoom girls. Kim K., SV. So prefer a more lithe lady?"
Actually, THL, you're definitely right about that. If natural, then fine. But I don't like parts that have been surgically enhanced. Not a fan of plastic surgery unless necessary. Much prefer people making the most of what they've got.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 1:24 PM
bxgrl, I love fringe and think the star actress is HOT HOT HOT
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 1:26 PM
FSRG - agreed - my favorite 2 yankees this time around are melky and Johnny Damon. JD is always there for the team - always can count on him to hit at least a double and can makw those hard awkard catches
Droll - good word - that's mannie. oh yes that weight loss scene - priceless
I havent' seen Fringe - is it good?
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 1:28 PM
"Can you imagine how good the Yankees would be this post-season if Texiera's bat matched his amazing glove?? or if Swisher, Matsui or Cano really started hitting."
That's what I mean, fsrq - the Yanks are loaded. One of those guys will hit sooner or later, without question, and if Tex is the one who gets hot, it's over. It's just a matter of how many games it will take the Yanks to reach the title.
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 1:30 PM
without makeup, would you do a double take?
http://celebrities-without-makeup.blogspot.com/search/label/Sof%C3%ADa%20Vergara
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 1:31 PM
China needs some unions. US should put unions out to pasture
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 1:31 PM
Gem- it's fascinating, dark and edgy. Getting great reviews too.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 1:31 PM
I'm Columbian! Priceless. With Manny it's all about the delivery. Just the way he said it so yes, of course I'd have coffee you silly!
I won't talk about it anymore because DeLepp still needs to watch it.
You can watch the full episodes on Hulu.com:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/103818/modern-family-coal-digger#s-p1-so-i0
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 1:31 PM
Bunions? And here I thought the produce aisle was vomit inducing!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 1:32 PM
My boyfriend from 26 years ago, recently sent me a photo of myself in a bathing suit, circa 1983.
I wanted to commit suicide after I looked at it. What I got, got up and left sometime ago, apparently.
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 1:32 PM
if Yanks win it easily, looks like halladay is going to get some serious offseason love from bosox, angels, phillies, dodgers,...
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 1:33 PM
ENY, maybe these guys just aren't hot right now because they just aren't hot anymore at all. I always love this kind of woulda, coulda, shoulda sports talk!!!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 1:33 PM
Haven't gotten into Fringe. My other favorite MUST WATCH show is Sons of Anarchy on FX. It has the same great edge that the Sopranos did in the early seasons except with bikers not mobsters. Really great.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 1:34 PM
DIBS & ENY, wager time
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 1:35 PM
Bxgrl, Obama's Nobel Prize is KILLING Benson! It's cracking me up.
Vavavoom is highly underrated.
Phew...that Vergara chick is SMOKING!
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 1:35 PM
Bxgrl - but have I missed too many episodes so far or did it just start?
Brownjokester - am not even sure that's SV in pic on the left - the noses and chin dont really match up to me...
THL - its the delivery agreed
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 1:35 PM
Cobble isn't that the worst?? I was showing my hub a bunch of old photos and besides the death definyingly tall hair I was like Hot Damn! Followed shortly by a look in the mirror and the new sentiment...Ohhh Damn!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 1:36 PM
dibs,benson
wait till the government has to give your home an energy star rating, I'm hearing talk of that now.
fsrq,
I liked your pro- Bloomberg arguments yesterday. they made a lot of sense.
Posted by: Legion at October 22, 2009 1:38 PM
DIBS & ENY, wager time
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 1:35 PM
I'd be very careful not to jinx your performance tonight.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 1:38 PM
THL - I have watched a few eps of Sons of Anarchy - helllo the blond guy is hot - and am sooo not into blonde men
anywhoo - but I keep forgetting when it's on
CH - awwwwwwwwww
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 1:39 PM
gem- you've missed a few but episodes are pretty freestanding so you can still watch and get what's going on.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 1:41 PM
YES! And the worst of it is that at that time...I had no idea I looked THAT GOOD!! I thought I looked like a WHALE in my bathing suit! I WAS WRONG! G*d help me! I call DO OVER!!!
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 1:41 PM
"ENY, maybe these guys just aren't hot right now because they just aren't hot anymore at all."
Perhaps. And perhaps they're due and in the next game will each hit three-run homers. Absolutely NO ONE knows what will happen. That's why they play the game, Dave.
You're always with that same old lame "I hate stereotypical sports talk" crap.
OK, let's hear more astute version of sports discussion. Go ahead, let's hear it, Dave, Dr. of Sports Talk.
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 1:42 PM
Nobody from the government gets near my home.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 1:42 PM
The Blonde guy that plays Jax (Jackson) is Charlie Hunnam he's a British actor. HE IS INSANELY HOT! I'm also not a fan of blonde but man he's an exception to the rule. To me his character on the show looks like a rough Brad Pitt.
http://fxnetworks.com/shows/originals/soa/cast.php
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 1:44 PM
ENY, calm down. Sit back, watch the game and have a few in the can.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 1:45 PM
Oh Cobble I feel your pain. I've always had a meaty Kim K.-ish tush and when I was young there weren't any JLo's or Kim K.'s so I thought I just had a fat butt and used to cover it with big schmatas. If I'd only known...
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 1:46 PM
Too Bad Dave isn't into the fairer haired guys. From Charlie's bio:
"On the small screen, Hunnam received audience and critical acclaim for his role in the hit British drama, Queer as Folk. In this show about two gay friends, Hunnam played the role of "Nathan," a 15-year-old on the lookout for older men."
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 1:49 PM
THL - yes yes yesss!
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 1:49 PM
"ENY, calm down. Sit back, watch the game and have a few in the can."
I am calm. Yankee fans have nothing to stress about, dude.
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 1:51 PM
DIBS - Mark Texieria is one of the best hitters in the game, sure its possible that he doesnt get hot the rest of the way (10 games at most) but slumps are part of the game, the guy is 29 years old - he'll be hitting again - I just hope its tonight or in the Series at worst.
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 1:52 PM
I don't think DIBS would hesitate to take that bet.
He would just say
SDFL = Silverdaddy Desires Fun Latinos
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 1:53 PM
"I thought I just had a fat butt and used to cover it with big schmatas."
You just needed to socialize with a few more brothers. Trust me, the appreciation factor goes up exponentially! You need only recall the immortal words of Sir Mix-A-Lot.
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 1:54 PM
ENY, man, you got me torned with that wager proposal now. I want the Yanks to win but I would also like you to show up to a gathering. got to think this over a little
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 1:55 PM
ENY I grew up in a mostly Jewish, Irish and Italian section of Long Island so how was I to know??
When I moved to The Big Apple for college was the best thing I ever did for my apple bottom!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 1:57 PM
It's not fair!! I wanna be Benjamina Button! I think I just figured out why some women get massive amounts of plastic surgery!
And this is also right on the heels of seeing that photo of myself now, where I look like my MOTHER! LOL!!
The good news is that I now have PROOF that I wasn't always a middle-aged woman!! LOL!!
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 1:57 PM
"This won't be easy, because I'm sure Dave has nothing I'd really want. The same is probably true on his end. "
True in many ways.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 1:58 PM
Yeah, m4l, besides, ENY will eventually show up so it's not a fair bet.
$50 and we can meet at some undisclosed bar location to collect.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 1:59 PM
THL, looks like we have the same exact taste in TV shows.
my must watch list is Sons of anarchy, entourage (season is ova :o(), modern family, cougartown, two and a half men, big band theory, how I met your mother, and the new Monday night line-up show whose name i can't remember.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 2:00 PM
"$50 and we can meet at some undisclosed bar location to collect."
Does this mean ENY will have to look in every bar in NY or will you at least disclose the location to him?
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 2:05 PM
"ENY will eventually show up so it's not a fair bet."
No way! What makes you think I will show up anyway? I mean, I like posting here and all, but I've thus far felt no particular compulsion to get together with a bunch of (realtive) strangers to do what I have done THOUSANDS of times before - drink heavily and share war stories, past conquests, etc.
Remember, I was a travel writer! Talk about old hat! I mean, I'm kind of past that stage in life, to be honest. But if that works for other folks, more power to you!
No Dave, we stick to my original proposal or it's no deal. Show us what you've got, man. Put your pride where your mouth is!
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 2:05 PM
Wow, we sure do Kens!! Except for the fact that in addition to those I also throw in massive amounts of trashy reality TV.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 2:06 PM
Cobble just say no to surgery!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 2:07 PM
"ENY I grew up in a mostly Jewish, Irish and Italian section of Long Island so how was I to know??"
A few years ago I was at one of my travel magazine jobs and one of the editors (a white chick) was complaining that she couldn't get any dates.
One of her friends, a black female assistant there, told her "Are you crazy? The brother will LOVE your big ass!"
The editor looked over at me and I said quietly, "She's 100% right."
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 2:08 PM
Wow, we sure do Kens!! Except for the fact that in addition to those I also throw in massive amounts of trashy reality TV.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 2:06 PM
Me too. for shame :o(
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 2:08 PM
"ENY I grew up in a mostly Jewish, Irish and Italian section of Long Island so how was I to know??"
I am representin the Jew tribe and I approve big tuhas 100%.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 2:10 PM
Well, if my cable ever goes out I know who's door to knock on!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 2:11 PM
Interesting that Raj Rajaratnam posted his apartment as bail and not cash. I bet he flees.
I suspect that he still holds a Sri Lankan passport. A colleague of mine held both US and Pakistan passports. It all depends upon whether your native country makes you give it up when you emigrate. Most do but some do not.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 2:11 PM
Kens- forget cougartown
you have to start watching Big Bang Theory
agreed with you on Entourage - I gave up, it got predictable and chessy
THL/CH - it's funny b/c I sooo don't have my mothers body - she's typically irish - when she was young -she was tall and thin, sorta delicate bone structure with small breasts and hips/butt and the only delicate things i inherited were wrists/ankles and neck - the rest of me is pretttyy curvy - so who knows??!?!?!
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 2:12 PM
You just have to show up. I have to go out and get the stupid T shirt made. Too many details. Besides, my face has already been up on here before.
Wager money or drinks, like a man.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 2:14 PM
Good afternoon everyone! I see I missed some major union-busting this morning - thank God Norma Rae showed up.
Sorry I'm so late. My dog started limping on Sunday night, and her limp has gone from bad to worse, so I spent the morning with her at the vet. Not a pleasant experience for either of us, let me tell you.
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 2:16 PM
Same here Gem, that's my mom except English. I got my dad's Armenian side all the way.
Mazel Tov Kens!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 2:17 PM
THL- Something just "lacrossed" my mind...Was that you I saw at the Sunrise Mall in the summer of 1989? or was it at the Busy Bee? or Mc Cluskey's Steakhouse? or the Carvel on Merrick Road?
Posted by: Crescent Hill at October 22, 2009 2:19 PM
So anyone remember Mrs. Limestone? You have GOT to see the Halloween invitations she made they're posted on her blog.
http://www.brooklynlimestone.com/
INSANELY AMAZING!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 2:20 PM
"Interesting that Raj Rajaratnam posted his apartment as bail and not cash"
Dave, I thought he posted $100 million in bail? That must be some apartment. I bet you're right about him fleeing - he maintains very strong ties to Sri Lanka and had been a major backer of the Tamil Tigers.
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 2:20 PM
"I have to go out and get the stupid T shirt made. Too many details."
Maybe you're right. I sure did want to see that, though. Anyway it's true, complicated bets are no good. Let me think about it!
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 2:21 PM
bxgrl, you'll be proud of me today - stirring some action myself in the sub-million sales thread.
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 2:22 PM
Dibs - agreed 100% - am sure he's a dual passport holder and will flee and the Tamil Tigers will keep watch that he goes into hiding!
THL - exactly - however my dad is mostly irish too - so not sure where I picked up the curves from truthfully.
and agreed my husband is a brother hence his appreciation for curves in right places
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 2:23 PM
I hope the dog is OK, Car Gar!
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 2:23 PM
Cresent that's not entirely impossible but It'd more likely have been the Smithhaven Mall.
"Lacrossed" might be my younger sister.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 2:24 PM
CarGar - What's wrong, why was the dog limping?
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 2:25 PM
Dave you're right on the money with that, he's SOooooo outta here!
My hubs is Italian but he always liked the curvy figure. He attributes it to growing up on the L.E.S. and having dated mostly Hispanic women during his formative years.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 2:27 PM
CGar- sorry about your dog. Is this going to be long term management issue or did she just hurt it and it'll heal?
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 2:28 PM
Hope the dog is OK.
He only had to put up his apartment as collateral on that $100 MM
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 2:29 PM
CGar, hope the dog feels better soon. I'll grant you reprieve on baking the brownies till she gets better
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 2:29 PM
I can appreciate a nice womanly ass...
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at October 22, 2009 2:29 PM
THL- Just a wild guess inspired by days gone by spent in Massapequa Shores. She took off in her little boat down the canal headed toward Unqua Point and I never saw her again...
Posted by: Crescent Hill at October 22, 2009 2:31 PM
Crescent/THL - I could have been spotted at Roosevelt Field in my ragtag/grunge plaid shirts and ill fitting Gap jeans making fun of anyone wearing acid wash and shopping at "Oaktree"!!!!
Cgar - sorry about your dog - what kinda dog is she/he
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 2:32 PM
Thanks ENY, Arkady. Too soon to know why she's limping. The vet did a thorough examination (of course, she didn't limp in his office, lol) and took blood. He said it could be a soft sprain; it could be Lyme Disease (even though she's on Frontline); or it could be something very bad given her age (14-1/2). Her appetite and energy level are otherwise normal, so I'm praying for a soft sprain. Her sad looks are killing me, though. He gave her pain meds, and I should get the blood tests back on Saturday.
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 2:33 PM
THL- I stand corrected- " Nassau Shores"....
Posted by: Crescent Hill at October 22, 2009 2:34 PM
Oh how sad! It def. wasn't me and probably not her either. Unless she had a boat and just never invited me on it!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 2:34 PM
Ohhh poor girl! I can't take it when they give the woeful looks. Breaks my heart.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 2:37 PM
Gemini- Did not get to Roosevelt field too often, but I do remember those awful jeans.
Posted by: Crescent Hill at October 22, 2009 2:38 PM
CarGar - If it's age, my vet recommends glucosamine (Cosequin) for elderly dogs & cats - takes a long time to get into the system but makes a big diff - worked wonderfully on a geriatric cat of mine.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 2:40 PM
THL, DIBS, m4l, G10 (this reads like code, lol), thanks very much. I'm hoping she just banged her leg on something and it heals.
m4l, thanks for the reprieve, I have a great recipe for Marble Brownies that my mother used to make.
G10, she's a little black Chow Chow (and a very friendly Chow at that, as Cobble, CG_ups and DeLepp can attest), and she looks exactly like a little Black Bear.
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 2:40 PM
No worries THL, I recovered and years later dated a girl in Smithtown who had her own horse.
I miss that horse...
Posted by: Crescent Hill at October 22, 2009 2:41 PM
Dave, what do you make of Rajaratnam and company losing money on their insider trading? You think they were just bad at it, or you think it was the result of just how bad the markets were in the Fall of 2008?
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 2:44 PM
I second Cosequin- I have my old man cat on it. Works great. Chows are so great. Love that teddy bear look.
ACK! THOSE JEANS!! I remember them well.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 2:45 PM
I had a Puerto Rican bf for many years who had a chow chow.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 2:45 PM
Marble isn't as good as pure choc. My niece sent me some from her new mother-in-law's recipe - stick w/ the tried & true.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 2:46 PM
CGar...just because you have inside information doesn't mean that you are going to make money. For example, even though a company might announce better earnings, the shares may still sell off. it has to be something inside and truly material.
I did not see the details of where he lost money even with the inside info.
I am in possession of what may be material inside information right now on a company. I have not acted on it, nor will I.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 2:49 PM
CarGar, best wishes. It sounds like you are trying very hard to do everything possible for her.
Posted by: infinitejester at October 22, 2009 2:49 PM
"Her sad looks are killing me, though."
Ugh. I can't take it when my dog does that to me. I hope it's nothing serious.
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 2:56 PM
CGar, I hope things turn out for the best with the CDog.
I was on the Promenade with the Champs on the weekend when one of them asked how they get those giant cranes on the top of buildings. I was embarrassed to admit I actually didn't know the answer. So I looked it up today. If you aren't sure yourself and have nothing better to do, click here:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/tower-crane4.htm
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 2:56 PM
Dave, here's the article from yesterday's Times about their insider trading losses, mostly on AMD as I recall. (And while looking for this, I just saw that Galleon is winding down now.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/21/business/21insider.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=rajaratnam%20amd&st=cse
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 2:58 PM
Arkady, THL, she's been on Cosequin for a few years. She's also on Metacam, which is an anti-inflammatory.
jester, Biff, thanks for your thoughts. Hopefully, Biff, we'll run into you one of these days (not the way you run into me with your bike), and you and the Champs can meet the CDog for yourselves.
Arkady, my late mother made the most amazing Marble Brownies. When I make them for m4l, I'll save you one.
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 3:02 PM
CarG - omg!!!! my husband and I want a chow(he had one as a kid) and desperately wants another. however I wouldn't mind getting a rescue dog, but he's hellbent on getting a chow from a breeder
where did you find yours?
i hope your vet can fix her right up - I read that chows are prone to hip dysplasia(sp) perhaps its a touch of that?
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 3:03 PM
LOL....AMD has been on a severe downtrend since 1Q 2006!!!!
The easiest and most notorious leaks for insider info is the FDA on drug approvals!!!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 3:06 PM
CGar, sorry to hear about CGar dog and hope it's nothing serious.
Please save me a brownie too. M4L will share.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 3:06 PM
Gem- You can get screened and sign up with Chow Rescue groups. My MIL just got a Golden Retriever that way. She's always had Goldens. She had to wait probably 7 months until she was screened, approved and one that was in the right age 3-7 yrs. and sex (female) category for hr came up.
She just got her 2 weeks ago and she's amazing. She was fostered on a farm in Kentuky though and is having a hard time adjusting to the noise on the streets in NYC. She's quite jumpy. The foster parents really should have gotten her better acclimated by taking her to busy areas and walking her along noisy streets before releasing her out of their care. That's been the only complaint about the whole process.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 3:09 PM
THL, I was going as Benson, given his engineering background, but figured it would be just as easy to Google it, plus I wouldn't have to listen to a diatribe on the appalling practices of the Crane Workers Union of America.
J/K, Benson!
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 3:09 PM
http://www.chowchow.org/
Has an adoption section.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 3:10 PM
going "to ask" benson...
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 3:10 PM
Hey Biff, if a bear....ah, nevemind.
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 3:10 PM
G10, she has hip dysplasia in her hind legs. Chows are among the breeds prone to it, and it's gotten worse in the past 6 months, but mostly doesn't affect her except when she sits down - I actually managed to train her to run up a ramp to get in and out of the car, which is pretty funny to watch. I took her in from my sister when she was 6, and my sister got her from a breeder in CT. I didn't learn until AFTER I took her in that Chows have bad reputations - not friendly and loyal to only 1 person - but mine defies the convention. She loves everyone, and on the way to the vet this morning, this adorable 2-year-old girl stopped me and asked if she could pet my dog, and I told her to go right ahead, and the dog is loving it, and as she's leaving the girl throws her arms around my dog's head and gives her a big hug - the girl's mother and I both wished we'd had a camera.
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 3:10 PM
Or nevermind.
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 3:11 PM
thanks thl but you can go on about manny and company, I've watched the same episodes of golden girls a million times roared over the same lines.
Posted by: DeLepp at October 22, 2009 3:11 PM
Thanks, Kens. I guess I'll make more than 1 batch of Marble Brownies, LOL!
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 3:14 PM
My neighbors down the block have one of the most imposingly large dogs I've ever come across and it's got the personality to die over he's such a giant oaf of a sweetheart. Before I met him I'd never heard of the breed before.
It's a Leonberger.
http://tinyurl.com/yg32mvd
I would have one of these dogs in a heartbeat.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 3:18 PM
the one thing that i never understood, is how people with big butts manage to properly poop?
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 22, 2009 3:19 PM
We just don't poop Rob.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 3:21 PM
Thanks, Kens. I guess I'll make more than 1 batch of Marble Brownies, LOL!
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 3:14 PM
Thanks Cgar!!! I know some other people here would love some brownies but a little spiked.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 3:21 PM
THL, I just "met" a Leonberger for the first time recently. Looks so much like a St. Bernard. A very playful, lovable dog.
Did your MIL get her dog yet? S/he was beautiful in the picture. (The dog; I haven't seen a picture of your mother-in-law yet.)
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 3:22 PM
""I was going as Benson"
For Halloween, Biff?"
Yes, my costume is from the Humphrey Bogart collection.
http://tinyurl.com/lp2ez3
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 3:22 PM
OH, THL, Leonbergers are almost always very, very friendly. i first ran across one in the late eighties in Chicago. I had a n Akita and there was a leonberger that someone walked near us. The dog was great. and the two of them really got along
i ran across one in provincetown over Labor Day. The owner was really surprised when i asked him if it was a leonberger.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 3:22 PM
Yes, she got her two weeks ago. She's very skit-ish. We're hoping for the best but she's been trembling when going for walks. My MIL is upset she wasn't acclimated to the noise/traffic better. She was supposed to have been.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 3:24 PM
ROFL, Biff
Hey *rob*! I'm all for lawyer-bashing, but you should really carve out an exception for those lawyers who offered to bail you out for free if ever you get in trouble!
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 3:25 PM
Man, so many people sharing my tray of brownies from CGar:
- Tara
- Arkady
- Kens
how's a chubby guy stay chubby if people are raiding his stash?
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 3:29 PM
I'd just never heard of them before. Apparently they were bred for the sole purpose of looking like a lion and being a companion animal. Seems weird to have a dog that ginormous with no purpose but loving.
I watch his owners cat when they out of town and I always secretly wish they'd ask me to also watch the dog. He goes off to a kennel and he loves it. He gets all excited when they tell him to 'get your bag' (his backpack filled with his kennel gear). They love him at the kennel and he loves going b/c he gets to play with the other dogs.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 3:29 PM
CarGar,
did your vet check the webbing? my dog's 10 and had a badly inflammed paw this summer, from constantly licking at the area. He had a reddish inflammation of the web space.
I gave him some benadryl and a topical steroid ointment. wrapped it daily for a week.
The inflammation subsided and he's back to normal.
have the vet check for a bone growths as well if no improvement. older dogs can get metatarsal growths.
Posted by: Legion at October 22, 2009 3:30 PM
Dave, I've always liked Akitas. I assume you had a Japanese Akita and not an American Akita? They have a similar temperament as Chows, but are very friendly if they're well socialized as puppies.
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 3:31 PM
"He goes off to a kennel and he loves it"
THL, my dog also loves going to the kennel?!?!
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 3:33 PM
CGar...yes...very loyal to owner and good with most people but can turn badly on any dog that they don't get along with. Luckily, for some reason, he got along great with the only two dogs on the block.
Yes, Japanese Akita...he was just over 140 lbs!!!!!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 3:34 PM
Those are gorgeous- I never heard of a leonburger before but i adore big, trolloping dogs.
Cargar- hope she's ok. Should I send over one of my cats to comfort her?
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 3:38 PM
Really? That's unusual isn't it? It's good though because you don't feel bad leaving them.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 3:40 PM
Dave, of course you had the Asian dog, not the American dog, LOL!
I'm partial to Arctic Circle Dogs (aka Northern Breed Dogs) including the Chow Chow, Samoyed, Akita, and various Husky breeds.
I also had a beautiful white Samoyed for a few years that I took in from my 90-year-old aunt, who took her in from a 56-year-old friend who had died of cancer, who had in turn rescued her. Very sweet dog (but not terribly bright).
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 3:46 PM
I can just see what would happen if I ever brought one of them home. The cats would freak, then the Great EVLL would kick me out. But they're so gorgeous, its almost worth risking :)
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 3:48 PM
Legion, thanks. I'll check the webbing tonight. She's been known to "over lick" and inflame her paw before. The vet did his best, but she got very upset and agitated, and he didn't want to push it today. If she doesn't improve, he'll sedate her to take X-rays and check for bone growths.
bxgrl, thanks for the offer, but that probably wouldn't bode well for your cat!
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 3:50 PM
Every dog has his day.
And apparently today is the day on the OT. The cats have moved over.
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 3:51 PM
JOKE TIME!!!
A wealthy woman was being shown around the hospital.
During her tour she passed a room where a male patient was masturbating furiously.
"Oh my God!" screamed the woman. "That's disgraceful....Why is he doing that?"
The doctor who was leading the tour calmly explained, "I'm very sorry that you were exposed to that, but this man has a serious condition where his testicles rapidly fill with semen, and if he doesn't do that at least five times a day, he'll be in extreme pain and his testicles could easily rupture".
"Oh, well in that case, I guess its okay" said the woman.
As they passed by the very next room, they saw a male patient lying in bed while a nurse performed oral sex on him. Again, the woman screamed "Oh my God! Now tell me how that can be justified?"
The doctor answered very calmly "Same illness, better health care".
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 3:51 PM
Bxgrl- My neighbor Leo is very friendly with the cat. Oddly so. They just adopted another little kitten too. He's dying to know her but she hides from him. I guess from a 10 week old kittens perspective he's VERY scary looking!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 3:51 PM
"It's a Leonberger."
That is a fantastic breed, THL. I hadn't known about them. My wife would never allow me to keep a dog this big. Also read that these guys don't drool which is NOT characteristic of my dog (a boxer).
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 3:52 PM
Bxgrl doesn't have enough to take care of...she's looking for a dog now too??!!??
Nutter.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 3:53 PM
I like lurchers - wonderfully friendly & intelligent.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 3:54 PM
Ohhh, LOVE boxers! I always want to kiss those mugs of theirs! Something about those faces that I can't resist.
Yeah, no drool on a dog that size is a bonus. You'd assume slobber is part of the package but no.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 3:56 PM
Kens, ROFL!
THL, go figure. I made the mistake of leaving her home when I was gone for 10 days, with her regular dog walkers coming in and out all day, and hanging with her while she ate, and letting her in and out of the garden, and making sure the TV was on for her, and I got back and she had shredded some baskets, chewed off moldings and scratched antique furniture, knocked over every pot in the garden, you name it. That's when my sister remembered to tell me the dog prefers the kennel.
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 3:57 PM
Can I ask all you Mac people a question? Really a cross-platform question.
I have 30 years of medium format negs (2-1/4" x 2-3/4"). They're too big for almost all film scanners and too small for most flatbed scanners. But lucky me, I have a friend in Argentina with a super-expensive Imacon scanner (made by Hasselblad). Because he owes me a lot of favors, he's agreed to scan all my negs for me. Each scan will be approx 400mb.
The plan is for me to send him down a coupla 1tb external drives to put the scans on.
Here's our quandary: He's on a mac, I'm on a PC. If he formats the drive as a mac, will I be able to read these files on a PC?
Posted by: denton at October 22, 2009 3:57 PM
"I like lurchers - wonderfully friendly & intelligent."
As opposed to lurkers...
:-)
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 22, 2009 3:57 PM
Arkady- Those are gorgeous. I'd never heard of them either. Some of them look very greyhound some look almost like short hair collies.
So interesting.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 4:02 PM
denton - I think it's doable depending on how up-to-date the software is on each computer. If it's not pressing, why don't you write Q&A at NYT - she's really good at those kinds of problems & would tell you if you need some kind of program for compatibility.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 4:03 PM
I thought at least one person here would like the breed Cheeks.
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 4:03 PM
did anyone read about the hotel ludlow? my first apartment was on ludlow street til i got evicted.. these rents seem great for the street and area! tho honestly ludlow totally turned mega mardi gras on weekend nights, i couldnt even walk my dog without some drunk f-ck stumbling on us, but these rents for a new building sound amazing
The Hotel Ludlow, the 170-room luxury boutique inn that promised to "pay homage to its chic, authentic neighbors with modern and minimalist decor," has been the Hotel Ludlow, the stalled 19-story eyesore, for many moons. In fact, the 180 Ludlow Street concrete shell has been one of the most visible symbols of the city's wave of arrested development. But how about this for a blockbuster: The Hotel Ludlow is coming back! As rentals! LES blog The Lo-Down got the scoop at last night's Community Board 3 subcommittee meeting, where lawyers for developer Serge Hoyda outlined the plan to convert the building to residential.
With the super-expensive rental tower The Ludlow located right next door, the Artist Formerly Known as Hotel Ludlow will be aiming for something more downmarket: 158 units, mostly studios and all rent stabilized, starting around $1,200-$1,300 per month. A rep said, "This is not a luxury building. This is a market-rate, no frills building. It's not obscene and it's not affordable. It's somewhere in the middle."
Posted by: Butterfly at October 22, 2009 4:03 PM
Or lurching lurkers, especially.
Posted by: Arkady at October 22, 2009 4:04 PM
or the Cock-A-Chon
or Cock-A-Tzu
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 4:05 PM
In my day we referred to those as mutts!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 4:07 PM
Sounds great Rob - but I don't fucks with Ludlow St anymore.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 4:09 PM
I'm out, momma needs a nap.
Have a great night everyone.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 4:09 PM
- In my day we referred to those as mutts!
The lurkers?
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 4:09 PM
BJ, it's not always about Cock. Sometimes it's about ass. You should know that more than anyone!!! :)
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 4:09 PM
There's a breed called 'Giant Schnoodle'.
Most of the time, they're black.
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 4:11 PM
"Very sweet dog (but not terribly bright)."
So...not a rocket scientist?
"Bxgrl doesn't have enough to take care of...she's looking for a dog now too??!!??
Nutter.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 3:53 PM"
I'm no rocket scientist either! :)
Denton- if he's going to send you back jpgs he probably has the option to save them in either pc or mac format.However, I haven't ever saved in mac format and never seemed to have a problem. But to be safe, ask him if he can save in either format. Most picture formats seem pretty cross platform, anyway.
If you're interested I do have an older scanner which has a special slide scanner cover and it has different size holders for various negative formats. Since I have another scanner anyway, you're welcome to borrow it. It's an epson 1200u and does great scans.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 4:15 PM
There's a breed called Jug.
How about snuggling up with a pair of these.
http://www.jug.dogbreed.org/dogbreedinfo.asp
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 4:18 PM
Description
The Jug is a cross between a Jack Russell Terrier and a Pug. It is a mixed breed dog
Again, a mutt.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 4:21 PM
but a really cute mutt.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 4:24 PM
It seems like they've given every mutt a name.
Taco Terrier.
Otherwise known as DIBS' BF
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 4:25 PM
Denton,
Just check with a guy in the office who works with that stuff. He said it should be fine if he saves it as a jpeg, tif, etc. BUT the only thing he has to make sure to do is save it as a RGB format jpeg instead of CMYK format otherwise you wont be able to load it on a PC.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 4:25 PM
Mutts tend to be heartier than full-bred dogs, which are the result of genetic engineering and can be prone to hereditary illness and conditions.
Posted by: East New York at October 22, 2009 4:28 PM
kens- that can't be right. I use cmyk all the time because I work with printers and you have to work in cymk. RGB format is the color format for monitor screens and cmyk is for print format. What I have found is that people who may not have the most up to date or higher end photo software may have a problem. I found that true in older versions of PDF.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 4:29 PM
The Thai Ridgeback is DIBS' dream dog.
It has a loose-skinned, muscular body. It's back is strong and firm. The shoulders are strong and muscular. The head is carried high on the firm, strong, clean cut neck. The legs are long and moderately lean and bend slightly to the stifles.
Tough and active with excellent jumping ability.
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 4:30 PM
The best dogs....are the ones you get at the pound - they never forget!!!
Seriously with millions of great dogs being killed every year - how on earth could someone morally breed some B.S. "breed" like a cockapoo or Giant Schnoodle
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 4:30 PM
The best dogs....are the ones you get at the pound - they never forget!!!
So true. Cats too.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 22, 2009 4:31 PM
kens, terrific joke, sounds like second fella had the senate health care plan
Posted by: DeLepp at October 22, 2009 4:32 PM
And the Brownstoner survey says.
The best dog breed to get is:
A Cat
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 4:33 PM
bxgrl, you might be right. I honestly have NOOO idea with this stuff. This format stuff is all foreign to me. I just asked in our office cause the guy who does all of the stuff plus does all the video/commercial editing sits right next to me so that's what he told me.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 4:34 PM
Yes, I quite agree: mutts are the best.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 4:34 PM
fsrg- couldn't agree more (works with cats too).
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 4:34 PM
"Seriously with millions of great dogs being killed every year - how on earth could someone morally breed some B.S. "breed" like a cockapoo or Giant Schnoodle"
profit, my friend, profit. and never confuse that with morality
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 4:35 PM
my dog is a pitback! he's mostly pit with a bit of rhodesian ridgeback in him.
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 22, 2009 4:36 PM
Snark came up with a great acronym in HOTD.
Hysterical!
> every new family that moves there moves FROM park slope.
They're called POOPS (Priced Out Of Park Slope).
Posted by: DitmasSnark at October 22, 2009 4:08 PM
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 4:40 PM
Kens- it gets so confusing- but if he works on a mac, he probably dealt with pc users who aren't that conversant on graphic stuff. I have friends who still don't understand what a jpg is. Or he just might have assumed that was the case. I find a lot of mac users think pc people are still in the dark ages :)
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 4:40 PM
And that is exactly why we love ditmasSnark!
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 4:42 PM
Did I miss anything? I was at out union meeting.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 4:44 PM
Has anyone crossed a poodle and a Shih tzu and come up with a inoffensive name?
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 4:46 PM
bxgrl, yeah he is a Mac user because he is the "creative type" in the office. He has a huge setup with a bunch of equipment. Most of management has PCs though and they review stuff so he must know the whole conversion nonsense. I am clueless though.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 22, 2009 4:46 PM
Rob,
if can postpone taking your vacation until Jan...check out special fares on Spirit airlines.....
some days can go to Detroit for $36....ANd you are always threatening to move there..so check it out 1st.
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 4:48 PM
denton, The main issues sounds to me like it's getting the images off the Mac formatted external drives. I can connect you with BH and you can chat on the phone about it, if you like. He might know what to do.
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 4:56 PM
cobblehiller- I almost had TKOTD...until you piped in with helpful comment!
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 4:59 PM
FYI (especially BHO)
Bloomberg leading Thompson by 16% in latest Marist Poll- Thank God!
http://bk.ly/QJ
Go Yanks!
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 5:01 PM
Oops, sorry, Pete! I know you were looking forward to having that on your mantel!!
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 5:03 PM
g'night folks.. this lazy-assed overpaid no-good unionized govt employee scumbag is punching the clock..going to the Y for a swim and headed upstate on the 6:15 cause I'm using one of my 200 annual vacation days tomorrow.
Ciao or chow.
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 22, 2009 5:03 PM
who works 9-5 anymore?
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 5:05 PM
kens, re the color space RGB vs CMYK, he's wrong, both spaces are supported on the PC. Anyway these will be scanned as RAW files with are color-space independent. The question is, when you plug a mac-formatted HD into a PC, will the drive be recognized as a valid drive by the PC and will the files be available? Appreciate the help...
Posted by: denton at October 22, 2009 5:05 PM
FYI (especially BHO)
Bloomberg leading Thompson by 16% in latest Marist Poll- Thank God!
http://bk.ly/QJ
Go Yanks!
Posted by: fsrg at October 22, 2009 5:01 PM
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 70% of brownstones dream is going to be shattered
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 5:06 PM
finishing at 5pm is like a half day.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 5:08 PM
"Did I miss anything? I was at out union meeting."
Ditto, did you notice all the union members seem to be hard at work and all the non-union members post on Brownstoner all day?
Posted by: denton at October 22, 2009 5:09 PM
I forwarded your question to BH, denton.
I'll email you when he comes back with an answer.
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 5:10 PM
ch, you hit the nail on the head! That's the question I'm trying to get answered.
Posted by: denton at October 22, 2009 5:10 PM
in latest Marxist Poll he's losing by 102%
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 5:11 PM
denton - i'll get onto the union about posting privileges and extended breaks for maintaining threads.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 22, 2009 5:12 PM
for reals ditto
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 5:13 PM
My guess is that your PC won't recognize the Mac formatted external drives, But BH is a computer whiz and way more knowledgeable and I bet he may know a way to deal with that.
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 5:14 PM
Cgard - are you still out there
sorry was in a metting for a billion hours
omg i too am partial to artic dogs. I had a husky growing up and loved her I keep telling my husband if we don't get a chow, the only other dog I will get is a Malamute b/c of their temperment
am sorry happy to hear you have a happy loving chow - I know they get bad reps, but many are sooo lovable. Love Samoyeds!
Posted by: gemini10 at October 22, 2009 5:19 PM
500 looks like it's gonna be long time coming.
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 5:31 PM
G10, still here. Can't punch my time card until 6pm, union rules, lol. The Samoyed was so sweet. The Chow was so much smarter though. The Chow pees like an acrobat - she stands on her 2 front paws, with her butt and rear paws in the air, almost perpendicular to the ground if you can visualize. And the Samoyed would invariably step directly under the Chow, right when the Chow was peeing, night after night after night, she never learned, and so the Chow peed on her head every night. Ugh.
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 5:32 PM
G10 - help!! i can't get stupid kid cudi outta my head!
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 5:35 PM
DH, 'sup? Stuck there 'til 6?
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 5:40 PM
Yup - just chillin - you?
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 5:42 PM
Me too. Have a couple of things to finish since I got in at the crack of noon today.
Posted by: CarrollGardened at October 22, 2009 5:44 PM
No, I'm Chiller, you're DH! ; )
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 5:44 PM
denton- the pc will recognize RAW files but not a format for Mac OS- at lest not without some software programmed to transition from one platform to another. On the other hand, if the mac and pc can both use a flash drive and save the files to that you may not have any problem. Some of the ne drives have very large capacities.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 5:45 PM
f, they've been making me work hard that last few days
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 5:46 PM
Still here too. I have a teleconference with Japan at 6.30 PM. It's going to be painful. Facing a huge recall.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 5:49 PM
I predict biff pops up trying for 500
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 5:49 PM
bxgirl, what's the diff btw a flash drive and an external drive? The PC at least, sees them both as USB drives.
Posted by: denton at October 22, 2009 5:49 PM
denton- I looked some stuff up and there is a program called MacDrive which is supposed to allow pcs to read macformatted drives
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 5:49 PM
Benson, is it better to be in sales or the engineering group in such a recall scenario?
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 5:50 PM
so sorry benson! Hope it all goes ok, considering.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 5:50 PM
haha chiller ;)!!
Posted by: dirty_hipster at October 22, 2009 5:53 PM
Depends on who did the engineering :-)
Thanx bgirl, I'll look that up.
Posted by: denton at October 22, 2009 5:53 PM
can I try for the coveted spot?
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 5:53 PM
M4L;
Good question. All things considered, I'd say sales. We're only the channel, we didn't cause the problem. In fact, the key engineer from Japan sent a nastygram to my office earlier today when we questioned why this problem wasn't flagged during production. He knows that he is in the hot seat on this one, and we're talking about millions and millions of dollars on the line.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 5:55 PM
I think you just got it BJ!
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 5:55 PM
USB is the type of port but the hardware for a flash drive and an external hard drive is different, as is how they save information. If you attach them to the computer via a usb port, the computer sees it as a usb device and usually doesn't give more detailed info than that.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 5:56 PM
Good luck, benson, sounds like torture.
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 5:57 PM
Agreed- the best breed is the mutt.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 22, 2009 5:58 PM
actually ,technically and generally speaking, any drive that attaches to a computer, rather than being internal, is an external drive but they can be very different. But a flash drive uses a different technology than an external hard drive.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 22, 2009 6:00 PM
Benson, I thought so too. just make sure you stand far enough from detonation spot to avoid being collateral damage
Posted by: more4less at October 22, 2009 6:02 PM
Thanks folks. The worst will be tomorrow, when we hear the final decision from the customer. They are a well-known tech company that treats their suppliers like sh&t.
A couple of nights ago I had a teleconference with them to discuss this situation. It was an evening call, and I used the speaker phone in my house so that my wife could hear how they speak to us. She couldn't believe it.
Posted by: benson at October 22, 2009 6:03 PM
- I think you just got it BJ!
Y I P P Y! ! !
Does this mean I have to turn off the lights? Now where is that darn light switch!?!? I never got a layout of the place with my welcome kit.
Oh, well. Lights are still on.
Posted by: brownjokester at October 22, 2009 7:16 PM
Take me out tonight
Where theres music and theres people
And theyre young and alive
Driving in your car
I never never want to go home
Because I havent got one
Anymore
Take me out tonight
Because I want to see people and i
Want to see life
Driving in your car
Oh, please dont drop me home
Because its not my home, its their
Home, and Im welcome no more
And if a double-decker bus
Crashes into us
To die by your side
Is such a heavenly way to die
And if a ten-ton truck
Kills the both of us
To die by your side
Well, the pleasure - the privilege is mine
Take me out tonight
Take me anywhere, I dont care
I dont care, I dont care
And in the darkened underpass
I thought oh god, my chance has come at last
(but then a strange fear gripped me and i
Just couldnt ask)
Take me out tonight
Oh, take me anywhere, I dont care
I dont care, I dont care
Driving in your car
I never never want to go home
Because I havent got one, da ...
Oh, I havent got one
And if a double-decker bus
Crashes into us
To die by your side
Is such a heavenly way to die
And if a ten-ton truck
Kills the both of us
To die by your side
Well, the pleasure - the privilege is mine
Oh, there is a light and it never goes out
There is a light and it never goes out
There is a light and it never goes out
There is a light and it never goes out
There is a light and it never goes out
There is a light and it never goes out
There is a light and it never goes out
There is a light and it never goes out
There is a light and it never goes out
Posted by: Legion at October 22, 2009 7:45 PM
Oh geez, who left the CD player and the lights on....
**click**
**click**
::::::::::::::::Take me out...hum hum hum, hum hum hum mmm, la la la lalala::::::::::::::::::::::
Posted by: cobblehiller at October 22, 2009 8:53 PM
sneaks in thru the airshaft... turns the lights on.
we NEED more night posters here!
the person who told me to go to D! yes! i would do it if i had somee more friends on board. you cant just go to the big D and show up like youre some lame chick from montana in NYC. NYC welcomes transplants. cities like detroit will just eat you up.
i can just picture myself going to detroit being like, yeah , im from jersey city nj and lived in nyc for 8 years only to be shot in the face :-/
im effing UP for it tho. i got my ridgebull, my videogames, and a whole lot of eff those people attitude which is big in Detroit.
*bfly*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 22, 2009 9:13 PM
Hi! I have too many days of vacation also. May use it to scrub mold off the walls.
Posted by: mopar at October 22, 2009 10:29 PM
"only to be shot in the face :-/ "
I'll pay for your ticket.
Posted by: BSD at October 22, 2009 11:27 PM
Latest Restaurant Additions
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Le Barricou
added November 20, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Der Schwarze Kölner
added November 19, 2009 12:00 PM in Fort Greene -
Oak Wine Bar & Café
added November 18, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Mr. Wonton
added November 17, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Casa Rosa
added November 16, 2009 12:00 PM in Carroll Gardens -
Cousin John's Café & Bakery
added November 13, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Elote
added November 12, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Miracle Grill
added November 11, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Phoebe's Cafe
added November 10, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Ruthie's
added November 9, 2009 12:00 PM in Clinton Hill, Downtown Brooklyn
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