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October 13, 2009

House of the Day: 146 6th Avenue Revisited

This house at 146 6th Avenue in Park Slope was a house of the day pick back in June 2008 when it was listed for $2,750,000 in the NY TImes. It clearly didn't sell, because after a long break it's back on the market again for $2,295,000. The house hasn't changed hands since 1979, and a commenter back in the original HOTD thread made a reference to some personal conflict between the owners that might have been complicating the sales process. That first listing didn't include any interior photos, so we feared the worst, but the photos in this new Elliman listing show a space that's much nicer than we expected. Lots of original details, and a sprinkler system to boot. For a corner three-family house, the taxes listed on Property Shark of $7,626 sound low. You liking this place at this price?
146 6th Avenue [Douglas Elliman] GMAP P*Shark
House of the Day: 146 6th Avenue [Brownstoner]

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Saw this house when it was first listed. It is massive and will require A TON of money to fix up. The current broker obviously convinced the owner to clean and paint it, because it looked NOTHING like those photos when I saw it. Unless the property underwent a lightning-speed renovation, those pictures are in no way representative of the state of the house as a whole. The place was depressing, dank, and very chopped up. I'd also be surprised if it is indeed being delivered vacant.

Posted by: bk14 at October 13, 2009 1:29 PM

The bathroom in the pic looks like it needs help. I suspect the other bathrooms and kitchens also.
Not sure about price, but this can be turned into a beauty.

Posted by: brownjokester at October 13, 2009 1:31 PM

assuming each 1BR rents at 2000, then the buyer can reduce his 10K mortgage to 4000 for the right to i) live in a 3 floor walkup duplex, ii) deal with 3 sets of tenants, iii) cover the prop taxes and maintenance, and iv) deal with possibly significant renovations? even at 2300 rent, fully occupied $3000/mo to own the upper duplex seems pricy.

this house looks like it could be nice, but it explains why houses that are turn-key seem to be moving faster in this market.

Posted by: antidope at October 13, 2009 1:48 PM

we saw a little frame house two weeks back that some posters thought needed a million dollars in repairs. I thought that was absurd. This house on the other hand probably could use about a million dollars in repairs and upgrades. It is a big place and has lots of potential. I could see and owner's triplex and two rental apartments above. The corner lot gives it a ton of light and air. The location is very good. It just needs a buyer with deep pockets.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at October 13, 2009 1:49 PM

Yes, a friend from my planet...Mars. The concept of "priced to sell" has definitely not been registered by the owner. Plus the place has not been properly taken care of for some time.

This property has been on sale for over 2 years now. It's gone back and forth between real estate agencies, or listed as FSBO. Someone should tell the owner that this ain't 2007 no more.

We've seen a broken window on the top floor that stayed there for over a year before being fixed. I can't imagine what the rain and snow did there. The recent "renovation" appears to be limited to the parlor floor, and the floor above. A paint and wood floor job really. Also, taking advantage of an open house, we met the owner who was less than amenable to say the least.

This is a real pity to see that logic isn't always driving some owners: by trying to wrench too much $ out of his property, he is actually bleeding cash in maintenance and property taxes, while the overall value of the house goes down. Had he lowered his expectations a bit 12 months ago, he would now be better off than what he is now.

Posted by: From Mars at October 13, 2009 1:50 PM

Minard...that was Lafayette & Adelphi, correct??? No one said $1mm. I said $300-500,000 depending on how nice a job you do but you could get away with $300,000.

I doubt this place is a "gut job" like Adelphi St is.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 13, 2009 1:51 PM

this bldg is over 5000 sq ft, corner house(windows on side), lots of potential in great location.
If it were mine, I wouldn't sell it for less than $2.2.

Posted by: Petebklyn at October 13, 2009 1:55 PM

Dave, Yes that was it. The thing is that gut jobs are not necessarily more expensive than restoration jobs. A gut job on a little house is do-able for under $400,000.
However, a big brownstone like this with five full stories and a cellar...and with finishes and details you may want to keep and work around, that's a ton of money.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at October 13, 2009 2:04 PM

Dibs, for the place on Adelphi, an architect said 1M. My guy said $700-800,000. He is a contractor with some solid experience in complete renovations in landmark districts. He actually discouraged me from buying it, as a job for someone with deeper pockets.
Minard got his panties in a twist and started to argue the English basement must be a crawl space.

Posted by: Maly at October 13, 2009 2:06 PM

This house has a beautiful slate mansard roof.

Does anyone know how much is costs to maintain such a roof?

Posted by: Pigeon at October 13, 2009 2:10 PM

I guess I should keep my mouth shut since this house isn't my taste. The house is a bit narrow and yes, cut up. I wouldn't say it is "dank", just that the ground floor is dark and a bit depressing. Yes, it really needs a big renovation. The owner lives in Florida and has been down there for many, many years. My impression is he knows the asking price is a little over the top. He's a nice guy but not quite in touch with what is going on in Brooklyn.

The house is sunny and bright on all but the ground floor. I'm sure a decent renovation will make this house spectacular. One nice thing is that the house has its full cornice.

I think the upstairs tenants were contentious about being asked to leave...after, I think a billion years renting. I don't know if an owner can really kick out long-term tenants just to sell. I thought a landlord could only take over an apartment for "personal use". No?

I would be pretty upset as a tenant being forced out by an absentee landlord who thinks he can sell...what happens when he doesn't sell or what happens if a new owner ends up renting the apartments out as is to new people??? This would be very unfair. Would the old tenants have grounds to sue at that point? Sure, I can see a tenant being told the monthly rent has gone up, say $1000 with the lease renewal. The tenant might then leave...

But what happens if the landlord cannot rent the apartment at the inflated rent and a new tenant moves in at the old tenant's rent level?

Isn't this dangerous territory?

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at October 13, 2009 2:12 PM

"this house looks like it could be nice, but it explains why houses that are turn-key seem to be moving faster in this market.

Posted by: antidope at October 13, 2009 1:48 PM"

turn-keys are moving faster because prospective buyers won't have to pay cash for the updates. Have it on a mortgage and you can pay it off over 30 years, get it done yourself and it's cash money now. The higher deposit requirements compound this.

Posted by: the chicken at October 13, 2009 2:14 PM

At press time of this comment, average widget is around $1.9M. Closer and closer to half off peak comps. But sadly, we haven't parsed out the clueless so someone will overpay.

***Bill Thompson for Mayor***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at October 13, 2009 2:15 PM

***Bill Thompson for Mayor***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at October 13, 2009 2:15 PM

Talk about the clueless!!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 13, 2009 2:18 PM

antidope, why are you assuming a 10k mortgage?

Posted by: new2hood at October 13, 2009 2:19 PM

Were peak comps $3.8M on houses that need a million dollar of work?
That's pretty crazy.
In any case, gut renovation jobs are likely to suffer the most in these tight-credit times, as developers are much less likely to speculate, and owner-occupants can't really finance this sort of work.

Posted by: Maly at October 13, 2009 2:22 PM

propshark says it is 20' wide...and people calling it a bit narrow? is the 20' wide not accurate? and with side window (facing south) surprised saying dark...perhaps was darkly decorated with curtains before?
If not a regulated bldg BrkGreene, landlord can end tenancy no matter where he/she currently resides. This is 3 family and only way you would have a regulated tenant is if had been there before most Brownstoner readers were born.

Posted by: Petebklyn at October 13, 2009 2:23 PM

Maly, if that house had an English basement it was meant for a dead Englishman, because it was 90% below grade.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at October 13, 2009 2:26 PM

Closer and closer, Maly. I'd say peak comps were 2.5 for this puppy.

***Bill Thompson for Mayor***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at October 13, 2009 2:29 PM

maly, u just don't get it. bho can always say "approaching" or "idiots". they are irrefutable posts (and unprovable (and improbable?)). nevertheless you are correct. i would say "approaching 50% off peak ASK."

n2h: i just ballparked based on $2 mio sales price and 80% LTV. i'm sure i'm off by some significant amount but general neighborhood, no?

chicken, yes that's def part of the buying equation. like buying the furniture with the house... and paying for it over 30 years.

Posted by: antidope at October 13, 2009 2:30 PM

Oh, five stories! Yeah, 2.5 plus.

Hey, widget is now over 2M! Beat it, Sebb!

***Bill Thompson for Mayor***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at October 13, 2009 2:31 PM

I would bid half off for Bill Thompson.
Even then he's no bargain.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at October 13, 2009 2:33 PM

There should be a law against painting marble. I stripped three marble fireplaces in my old rental, just because I couldn't stand the white paint. Underneath was about 5 layers of paint, including good old institutional green and puke pink that must have been free, since every house in Brooklyn has it somewhere. The layer on top of the marble was brown (I want my fireplaces to be wood!)and it took a lot of elbow grease and poltices to get the stain out of the marble. Paint is not always a good idea.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at October 13, 2009 2:34 PM

***Bill Thompson for Mayor***?!?!?!?

If Bill Thompson were to become mayor, the price of brownstones would decrease dramatically, in tandom with the quality of city life.

Is that what we want?

Posted by: Pigeon at October 13, 2009 2:42 PM

another thing to keep in mind about a corner house like this is that exterior maintenance will cost way more.Just look at the length of the side Mansard! Even replacing the sidewalks would be major. We always talk about high maintenance charges in coops, but think about the high maintenance costs of a large corner house like this.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at October 13, 2009 2:47 PM

Minard...you can see from the photo that the English basement is NOT 90% below grade. It has five legal, livable floors.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 13, 2009 2:50 PM

Dave I was responding to Maly and referring to the Adelphi Street house. The Park Slope house has a high basement and a cellar.
I don't even know anymore what realtor's mean when they say "English basment". In England, it means a story that is almost entirely above grade, as found in the great estates and townhouses there. In Brooklyn I think it means a cold damp dungeon with no heat.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at October 13, 2009 2:57 PM

Minard, you certainly entitled to your opinions (well-informed or not), but not to your own facts. It is very odd you would pick a fight about a house you haven't even seen, against the word of an architect and an experienced contractor who actually visited and inspected the house in question. You should stick to what you know (it covers quite a large area), instead of discrediting yourself with nonsensical pronouncements.

Posted by: Maly at October 13, 2009 3:21 PM

Sorry, you're right. On Adelphi St, although the basement may be livable it is not legal.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 13, 2009 3:22 PM

Thompson for mayor. 70% off this baby would be 700k - a price pt many on this blog could afford (even if it's $1M renov)

Posted by: more4less at October 13, 2009 3:28 PM

BHO,

Widget is always about 15% below final closing price. So that puts the predicted sale price at just under $2.3m. Less than 10% off the peak per your post. Half off is a loooong way away.

Posted by: slopefarm at October 13, 2009 3:36 PM

This City would fall apart if Thompson won.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 13, 2009 3:39 PM

Christine Q has a bigger set than he does.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 13, 2009 3:40 PM

This City would fall apart if Thompson won.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 13, 2009 3:39 PM

so that means 95% off? I wouldn't worry about employmt if housing is practically free

Posted by: more4less at October 13, 2009 3:45 PM

Maly, we're all entitled to our opinions here.
By the way, I often respectfully disagree with architects and contractors. That is probably why I have been able to work so well with them over the years.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at October 13, 2009 3:50 PM

"If Bill Thompson were to become mayor, the price of brownstones would decrease dramatically, in tandom with the quality of city life."

Can you please list the reasons why?

***Bill Thompson for Mayor***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at October 13, 2009 4:25 PM

"Ahead of the debate tonight between the two mayoral candidates, William Thompson received the backing of a law enforcement union which has backed Mayor Michael Bloomberg in the past two elections." - NY1

***Bill Thompson for Mayor***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at October 13, 2009 5:34 PM

Bloomberg's independence and intelligence enable him to be a great NYC mayor.

Giuliani had the gumption and force (and intelligence, too) to be a great NYC mayor.

Bill Thompson has neither independence, gumption, nor force.
He may be a nice guy (I don't know him) and he may be smart (I don't know him), but he is beholden to too many political groups.

My 2 cents.

Posted by: Pigeon at October 13, 2009 5:36 PM

Exactly, BHO!

The reason "William Thompson received the backing of a law enforcement union that previously supported Bloomberg" is William Thompson is beholden to political groups (such as law enforcement unions).

Posted by: Pigeon at October 13, 2009 5:42 PM

Do we really think the city is not strong enough to withstand a change of scenery?

What is this effing Venezuela?

Bloomberg has aligned himself with the dark side.

I don't disagree with Pigeon, but feel like democracy's taken a jab to the nose. First the overwhelming force of money (insult), now the reworking of city charter (injury).

The city is much strongeer than it used to be; so I think all the fear of 80s disaster is over the top.

Posted by: antidope at October 13, 2009 5:58 PM

Hey BHO-

What about London??? Using your 10x annual rent metric...

See http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/United-Kingdom/Rental-Yields

If you adjust for a 20% peak to trough drop in London (see http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125512014022476765.html), then your tag line would be:

London 75% Off Peak Comps

Call the Times.

Posted by: antidope at October 13, 2009 6:11 PM

I saw this building this past summer. It has lots of potential and needs lots of work.

The owner wasn't showing the top floors where there's still tenants. The staircase leading up to there was down right scary. I fear what it looks like in the apartment.

I asked the owner if I could come back to see the top floors and he said he would find out what works best for the tenants.
And then never got back to me.

Has any one been up there?

Posted by: parsnip at October 13, 2009 7:24 PM

I love the concept that Mike Bloomberg is our Hugo Chavez. We know he's bad for us, we know he's been in power too long, but we can't live without him. He embodies somehow all those peculiar little human traits we cherish.
In Chavez' case it is in your face macho populism. In Bloomie's case it is Woody Allen neurosis backed up with billions of dollars in the bank. Simply irresistible.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at October 13, 2009 7:32 PM

I saw the top floors. Everything has to be redone. The house was used as an SRO by not so careful tenants...

I think the house needs between 400K and 500K or work.
Also, it is not 20 feet wide, it is 15 feet wide. You don't feel that it is too narrow because there is so much light, but it is a narrow house.

My guess is that it will sell for 1.7 or 1.8 unless a deep pocketed buyer falls in love with it.

Posted by: spqrxxi at October 13, 2009 9:02 PM

"This house has a beautiful slate mansard roof.

Does anyone know how much is costs to maintain such a roof?"

Pigeon, a roofer told me recently that slate roofs cost about three times as much as asphalt shingled ones. But, if done properly, they last much longer. (I realize this is not a complete answer.)

Posted by: Nomi at October 14, 2009 1:39 AM

« Co-op of the Day: 39 Plaza Street West Streetlevel: Lafayette Grocery Overhaul »

October 13, 2009

House of the Day: 146 6th Avenue Revisited

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