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October 6, 2009

Brooklyn Friends Relocation Gains Support

friends_61009.jpg
As we first reported in September, Brooklyn Friends School, a pre-K through 12 private school based on Quaker principles, has been looking to relocate and one site on their list is the corner of State and Hoyt, currently owned by the IBEC Building Corporation. IBEC had originally bought the site promising to build townhouses, back in 2004, and some residents, calling themselves Keep State Street Residential, have opposed Brooklyn Friends' possible schoolhouse (which would be five stories and 55,000 square feet), arguing that it could lower property values and increase traffic to their carefully planned neighborhood. Now, the Brooklyn Eagle reports, hundreds of residents and businesses have signed a petition to support the school, arguing that a well-regarded private school would only attract families, increase property values, and benefit overall quality of life. Brooklyn Friends has said that they are considering multiple sites, and for the school to take the State/Hoyt site, IBEC would have to nullify the contract it signed with the city in 2004 to build 29 residential townhouses.
Friends' Expansion Making Enemies on State? [Brownstoner]
Brooklyn Friends on State Street? [Brooklyn Eagle]




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Comments

No doubt this squabble will end up with a street shooting or a stabbing.

The whole argument thing is very un-Quakerly.

Posted by: dittoburg at October 6, 2009 9:09 AM

Don't think they're looking to relocate. I think the upper school is staying put and they're looking to move the lower school elsewhere. Too crowded now.

Posted by: Ringo at October 6, 2009 9:13 AM

That's ridiculous to think a Friends school would lower property values... rich people are irrational even about their own rich people stuff. Amazing!

Posted by: tybur6 at October 6, 2009 9:19 AM

I suspect they may be being smart. IBEC got the lot for a deal (so says State Street people) bcs they promised to build houses. If they flip the lot to the school, maybe the neighborhood can get a kickback -- finance improvements on their street. That would be fair and probably a deal for everyone.

Posted by: Ringo at October 6, 2009 9:25 AM

Count me as a strong supporter of the school plan. Is the petition online somewhere?

Posted by: bklynite at October 6, 2009 9:30 AM

Daytop has a large rehab center on State Street. Not exactly residential. Is this group looking to get rid of them after they knock off Friends?

Posted by: buttermilk channel at October 6, 2009 9:37 AM

Ooooohhh, we can't live in this neighborhood, there are no good schools! It's just so horrible that we pay all this money to live here and our kids can't walk to school. Ohhhhhh!

(A well respected private school wants to build)

Ooooohhhh, we can't live in this neighborhood, it's right next to a school! Those kids are so noisy, and my property values are going down because of this private, and expensive school. Ohhhhhh!

Posted by: Montrose Morris at October 6, 2009 9:39 AM

am i the only one who thinks one school for kindergarten thru TWELFTH grade is slightly weird?

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at October 6, 2009 9:40 AM

LOL MM


*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at October 6, 2009 9:51 AM

Rob, it's not really one school... it's divided as an upper and lower school. Most schools like this have this division. While there may be one principal/headmaster, there is usually a pretty clear administrative and operational division between the two "levels."

Posted by: tybur6 at October 6, 2009 9:57 AM

(btw, I don't know if that's the case here... but I know that's how it generally is.)

Posted by: tybur6 at October 6, 2009 9:58 AM

haven't you heard of 1 room schoolhouses.

If I lived in immediate vicinity, (as opposed to 6 blocks away), I would be happy that something was going to be built instead of empty lot. But apparently from lots of other Brownstoner threads and comment people prefer empty lots to new buildings.
And especially since this block borders downtown which had all th\ose empty/parking lot blocks for decades sitting usesless and making area ugly.

Posted by: Petebklyn at October 6, 2009 10:01 AM

ah. im pretty sure MOST normal people would prefer to live next to an empty lot than a school (any kind of school really). no?

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at October 6, 2009 10:36 AM

kinda funny that you aren't all up in arms about the bait-and-switch here. just imagine if the developer was big, bad RATNER what you might all be saying...

anyway, i'm ambivalent about this one - houses are better, but if the houses really won't happen (as opposed to a developer just trying to back out of a deal that turned out not to be as good as it seemed), what next? but the point is, i don't own there and, at this scale and type of development, it really is the neighbors that are the most important stakeholders. and there are lots of reasons to prefer the residential development that was promised to a non-profit (i.e., no taxes), selective (i.e., no benefit for local families) private school. scale of the buildings, context, effect on other undeveloped properties, increased traffic on small streets, and the closed-times dead zone that institutional properties create. also, keep in mind that just as this developer is now trying to renege on its agreement, who's to say that brooklyn friends won't do the same? back out and sell the land or a big empty building (now, ten years from now, whatever) to another institution that you all might find less cute?

Posted by: i disagree at October 6, 2009 10:52 AM

My school upstate was K-12 in one building, as were all of the towns around us. The elementary school was on the first floor, the junior and high school on the second. We all shared the cafeteria, auditorium/gym, schoolyard, and buses. Of course there were only about 250 kids in the entire school, as there were only 600 people in the town. Looking back, it was a marvel of planning, as lower grades and upper rarely interacted, it was a well run machine.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at October 6, 2009 11:39 AM

Ratner is not building a school. Having lived less than a block from Brooklyn Friends for years I can say they were absolutely no problem. Trying to equate the 2 situations doesn't hold much water. Brooklyn Friends has a great reputation and good schools are part of what makes a good neighborhood better- not more luxury housing in a neighborhood already saturated with new home construction.

Posted by: bxgrl at October 6, 2009 11:49 AM

I don't have a dog in this fight, but the following anti-Friends on State Street letter was sent to the Boerum Hill egroup yesterday:

This isn't the right forum to get into the issue. There are a lot of people on State street who are very upset about this because years of community planning went into the designation for the site as residential and we already feel encumbered by Downtown Brooklyn, institutions like the jail and the court system. There is a site on Schermerhorn that Brooklyn Friends School has been offered. Its slightly more costly to build over the subway, but that street is zoned for a school and can handle the traffic that a lower school would bring. So we are not against a school, just a school on State Street. I urge people, if they would like to hear ALL the facts about the issue, to come to the [Boerum Hill Association] meeting. If you cannot make it, we have a website- www.keepstatestreetresidential.wordpress.com

Posted by: Brooklyn Chicken at October 6, 2009 12:21 PM

i was a student teacher at the bfs preschool many years ago and am happy to see that they are finally looking for a larger space. even back then [late 80s] it felt too confined.

Posted by: 11214 at October 6, 2009 12:26 PM

I wouldn't want to see the school built over the subway. And I love the throwaway comment- "Its slightly more costly to build over the subway,". I want to see how "slight" that cost will be. As for Schermerhorn being better able to handle traffic? I really need that one explained since both streets run right next to one another. And are both approximately the same width.

Posted by: bxgrl at October 6, 2009 12:41 PM

So you are okay with the SRO on Schermehorn being built over the subway but not the school? Poor people can live over the subway but rich kids at a private school should not. If you knew anything about construction you would know this is not an issue. For someone who claims to have lived in the area for some time you would certainly know that Schermehorn is nearly twice the width of State.

Posted by: loafer at October 6, 2009 1:03 PM

loafer-only in certain parts it is. Livingston is much wider than both. and no- and please- not with the SRO fake argument.Try something with a little more substance if you want to make your argument. I do know something about construction and also about living over a subway. there's noise and vibration. It's a kids school, fer crissakes, not Guantanamo Bay Detention Center that they want to put up.

Posted by: bxgrl at October 6, 2009 1:41 PM

Get your facts straight and your tape measure fixed before you post. Schemerhorn and Hoyt is the other proposed site -next to the SRO that the school has been offered. They are concerned about the time to build not so much the cost. If you attended the meeting and did some homework you would know that this was stated by the BFS Headmaster. So noise and vibration is not a concern nor has it been disruptive to the people actually living in the SRO directly over the subway or for the people living in the new building behind the proposed scholl whcih is also over the subway.

We already havea detention center on Smith but I am sure if that ws proposed you would be in favor of that as well. Livingston is not being considered so why even bring it up.

Posted by: loafer at October 6, 2009 1:57 PM

loafer- I have moved to crown heights and frankly, glad I did. Of course if you want to compare the number of city services dumped on Crown Heights as opposed to what there is in BH then you would see what a hill of beans you have as compared to the mountain we are dealing with here. Perhaps you would like to take the planned intake center the city now wishes to gift us with.

All in all, don't we in Crown heights wish we had so little to whine about as you do. Oh gosh- a school built by Brooklyn Friends...or oh gosh- another city shelter/halfway house/intake center/drug treatment center/mental health clinic. Cause that's what we're looking at. Get real.

Posted by: bxgrl at October 6, 2009 2:10 PM

Interesting if not tortured logic.

Maybe if you stopped whining and became active in a positive way you could influence bad urban planning like you have expereinced in CH. Posting on BS is not community activism. Residents of the community have every right to express their preferences for development as opposed to just roll over and take it when some developer wants to ring the register or some city agency wants to have their way without community input. It is always convenient to make it a class/ethnic argument when maybe it is as simple as residents of a community demanding sensible thoughtful development that is not shoved down our throats.

Posted by: loafer at October 6, 2009 2:23 PM

Think you need to learn to read the papers and pay attention to what's going on because that is what we have been doing, not whining like you elitists in BH do about every little (and I do mean little) thing. And FYI- I am very involved in community activism- of course people like you are too self involved to think anyone but yourselves does anything. Thank you soooo much for telling me posting on b'stoner is not community activism. Perhaps you should be taking your own advice.

Posted by: bxgrl at October 6, 2009 3:33 PM

More nonsensical bloviating from a stealth activist with a giant chip on her multiple personalties. This was my first post and my last since this is clealy an excercise in mental masturbation.

Posted by: loafer at October 6, 2009 3:43 PM

I think if you read back a bit you'll note you started the discussion between us. I'm entitled to my opinion, why you chose to make it a problem is - well- your problem. get as nasty as you like- people like you who can't state their talking points usually resort to insult. It didn't help your argument any and you won't be missed.

Posted by: bxgrl at October 6, 2009 4:14 PM

the neighboods in the heart of brownstone brooklyn discussed on brownstoner, is going to need this school and many more schools to keep up with demand.

of course they should build here. no brainer....will absolutely increase property values.

also, i have lived kitty corner from a high school and a couple of blocks away from a grade school and from a middle school, and i haven't had anything happen in 3 years.

there is no noise, there isn't chaos, there's no violence, no crime, etc...

Posted by: wine lover at October 6, 2009 4:30 PM

I have no disagreement with your opinion - only when you make uninformed incorrect statements that only serve to confuse the issue. BFS is not concerned about the subway nosie etc and Sch. St is much wider and more caopble of handling the increased traffic. If you feelings are hurt when your ignorance is exposed about the issues surrounding the concern of the residents in the community - I apologize.


"I wouldn't want to see the school built over the subway. And I love the throwaway comment- "Its slightly more costly to build over the subway,". I want to see how "slight" that cost will be. As for Schermerhorn being better able to handle traffic? I really need that one explained since both streets run right next to one another. And are both approximately the same width."

Posted by: loafer at October 6, 2009 4:39 PM

here we go again ...

Once again, too many people with too much time on their hands making comments on something
- they clearly know nothing about and
- does not concern them anyway.

The petition mentioned in the original blog is being filled mostly with people that do not live on the concerned blocks and have no idea what they are signing.

We actually talked to people that had just signed that petition under FALSE pretenses:
- they were never told this was for a private school (most people would like the idea of a public school)
- they were never told that BFS is being offered another site ONE BLOCK north on Hoyt and Schermerhorn that makes a lot more sense for the entire neighborhood.

There was a great community meeting yesterday where both IBEC and BFS presented their project. Most local residents raised some very valid questions and got almost no answers from neither the school nor the developers.

If you really want to know more about this issue, learn about it instead of passing a judgment on the "bad people against a school". If you had done some research, you would have found that most local residents potentially affected by this are not against the school but against the location on this already very busy and very dangerous street.

Want to know what you are talking about for a change?: http://keepstatestreetresidential.wordpress.com/

Read, educate yourself. Then maybe you can pass judgment.

But at the end of the day, unless you live here and could potentially be affected by a school with 400 kids, as many parents/caregivers and 80 staff members on a one line residential street with absolutely no parking solutions, then stop making us local concerned residents pass as bad guys.

Posted by: StateStreetResident at October 6, 2009 8:37 PM

State St. Resident -- it may not serve your property values so well to call your street "very busy and very dangerous" -- also it's just not credible in downtown Brooklyn when you are surrounding by Atlantic Ave., Fulton St., Flatbush, Tillary, to name a few. Tone down the rhetoric a bit, your hype is showing.

Posted by: bklynite at October 7, 2009 9:46 AM

Bklynite,

You almost starting to sound like the developer of the site who recently made a comment (passing as a resident) about us benefiting from the school presence when we would flip our houses...

As I replied to the developer last week on that comment: I am not and I know a lot of other local homeowners are not in this fight because we are worried about property values. We are simply not interested in flipping our properties. I personally bought on this street because I fell in love with this neighborhood. The Hoyt/Schermerhon task force had made recommendations in the past to keep State St residential specifically to ensure that this street would remain a buffer between Downtown Brooklyn and the rest of Boerum Hill.

So the way we, resident of State St, look at it is that we live here and want to preserve the residential aspect of this street. You bet I am hyped about it.

Again, either you are the developer and we all know where you stand on the subject or you are not a local resident, in which case, you should let local resident have a say in the matter.

Posted by: StateStreetResident at October 7, 2009 12:27 PM

SSR -- I am a local resident, and no, not the developer of the property. I made my comment about property values because of some pretty explicit statements to that effect on the blog you reference (see link below), but I recognize that there are other possible reasons to oppose a school.

Personally, I feel that schools are compatible with a high-quality residential neighborhood, and can promote their best aspects -- see Packer, St. Ann's, and most if not all of the UES private schools.

http://keepstatestreetresidential.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/a-letter-of-concern/

Posted by: bklynite at October 7, 2009 2:21 PM

Bklynite,

Thanks. It is a situation that has clearly steered a lot of emotions. But I think that if you look through all the information we have provided, you will see that property value is clearly not our number 1 concern.
We have made it clear (in our blog) and through our various discussions with the school and the community that this has never been against Brooklyn Friends or any school in general. It has always been about the proposed location, the fact that most of the potentially affected residents had not been consulted and when they finally were made aware of the project massively decided against it.
Moreover, we know that other sites are available to BFS, including one our entire neighborhood would be in favor of (at the corner of Hoyt and Schermerhorn St). Now, those other sites might not work with BFS time line or budget but the local resident should not have to be affected irreversibly by those cost or time constraints.

Posted by: StateStreetResident at October 7, 2009 3:44 PM

I do have a dog in this fight, since I recently moved to State Street, very near this site. At first, I was completely supprotive of the school. I particularly could care less about property values. (I rent!) But after considering the issues, I think that the petitioners opposing the move are absolutely right. Here's why.

State Street is a narrow residential enclave, surrounded by massive commercial districts to the North (Shermerhorn Street), South (Atlantic Avenue) and West (Boerum Pl/Brooklyn Bridge Pl). All you have to do is simply look at Shermerhorn and State Streets to see the difference--the former is significantly wider, has high-rise buildings, and is almost entirely commercial. It's clearly a part of Downtown Brooklyn, which Wikipedia describes as the third largest commercial district in New York City.

State Street already has the Brooklyn Detention Center bleakening its Western edge. All it would take is a few more mixed-use buildings for the residential character of this small street to be completely overwhelmed. State Street could easily become just another Livingston or Fulton Street unless its residential character is actively preserved.

Posted by: saabaru at October 13, 2009 6:08 PM

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