« Open Thread Time to Think About Your Boiler Again »

September 30, 2009

Updates for Manhattan Bridge Bicyclists

Workers have been, um, at work at the base of the Manhattan Bridge bike lane in Brooklyn for a while now. We stopped to talk to them over the weekend, and they said they are building a barrier wall for the bike lane, separating it from Sands Street as well as the grassy hill on the north side. They also said they are making slight improvements to the lane itself. In other news, automobiles are still confusing the new elevated bike lane along Sands Street for parking:

Trackback Pings

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/11662

Comments

When cities effectively prohibit deliveries along whole stretches of a street, because of the inability to double park because there's now a bike lane, that's just assinine.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 30, 2009 9:35 AM

Some hi-tech $40 concrete bollards should solve the parking problem.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 30, 2009 9:35 AM

The problem isn't the bike lane, it's all those damn cars parked on the right along the curb.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 30, 2009 9:40 AM

how about bikers learn some of those extreme sports moves - ie jump the cars with bikes and dont work about any scratches or dents via landing a little too close to the cars

Posted by: more4less at September 30, 2009 9:41 AM

Actually Dave, what is ridiculous are the amount of people who just park in or stop in bike lanes. That is extremely dangerous as it forces cyclists into the street with fast moving traffic. Far too many drivers in this city are completely inconsiderate to cyclists and their bike lanes.

What is asinine is the following: Outside of my office, USPS and Fed Ex truck parked on the street (not double parked, just no standing signs) and traffic cop starts giving Fed Ex guy a ticket. The freaking guy is in the back unloading packages and the cop just slinks up to the front to give the ticket without saying anything to the guy. He is not blocking traffic or hurting anyone, just trying to do his job. I think that should be allowed much more so than we should eliminate bike lanes so delivery vans can double park.

Posted by: AndYouWillKnowUsbyTheTrailofRenters at September 30, 2009 9:42 AM

I actually drove this stretch this weekend... a truck was double-parked on the right side (both in terms of direction and correctness). I had to drive up onto the curb a little to drive around him... basically two wheels on the edge of that "buffer" bit.

What was wrong with that?

It made it necessary for me to slow down my car -- god forbid -- but the bicycle that rode by me was not forced into the road. Everyone was still separated and the truck was mkaing his delivery with no problem.

Instead, this mail truck (as pictured) has decided to park ON the bike path. It's the equivalent of just stopping your car in the middle of the road.

Posted by: tybur6 at September 30, 2009 9:44 AM

FedEx and most other large delivery services have a contract with the city to pay a certain amount of money a year to cover ALL tickets.

When there's no other place to park, how the hell are deliveries supposed to be made??

You'd be singing another tune if you couldn't get anything delivered to your house because of a bike lane and only one traffic lane.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 30, 2009 9:46 AM

(actually I could have probably passed without going up on the "buffer" but, as with most things in my life, I perceive them as bigger than they actually are.)

Posted by: tybur6 at September 30, 2009 9:47 AM

Almost all streets have some area that is a "No Standing Zone". Those signs should just no standing except for deliveries, and then don't ticket those guys. And someone not getting a package is a far better alternative to a cyclist being hit by a car.

Posted by: AndYouWillKnowUsbyTheTrailofRenters at September 30, 2009 9:49 AM

I asked this question last time and no one answered (maybe it was dumb)

Buuuut - since Sands Street appears to cut right through public housing, and presumeably the mail/delivery etc trucks are making deliveries to the housing complexes - why isn't there any parking set aside in the complexes? Aren't there parking lots for residents??

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 30, 2009 9:49 AM

"FedEx and most other large delivery services have a contract with the city to pay a certain amount of money a year to cover ALL tickets."

I knew this - so why is it that all the worthless NYPD Traffic cops do is follow around FedEx/UPS trucks? What's the point?

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 30, 2009 9:51 AM

DIBS... That's the thing... there IS a place to park... you double-park against the parked cars! Even with a regular bike lane it's better.

As someone mentioned before... the vast majority of safety when riding a bike is *predictability* -- if a truck is double-parked on the road, you KNOW that the car in front of you will have to drive into the bike lane a bit... so you either speed up or yield (depending on the timing).

In the situation pictured above, you are forced into the roadway... with unobstructed traffic BEHIND you. It far more difficult to *predict* the speed and trajectory of that car.

It's the difference between the double-park vehicle forcing traffic into the slow-moving lane vs. forcing slow-moving traffic into the potentially very fast (painful) lane.

Posted by: tybur6 at September 30, 2009 9:52 AM

DH, maybe those tickets still count toward retirement of their quota for the month

Posted by: more4less at September 30, 2009 9:54 AM

tybur6, look at the photo. There's no place to double park and allow cars around. Is aALL of the traffic supposed to jump the bike lane curb? That does look like a raised curb there.

Besides, do you really want to decrease the already bad efficiency of the USPS????? :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 30, 2009 9:56 AM

"DH, maybe those tickets still count toward retirement of their quota for the month"

That's exactly what it is - good job guys, write out that pointless ticket while there is probably someone a block away gridlocking or driving like a prick

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 30, 2009 10:02 AM

Like I said... I drove this exactly. It's not "jumping the curb" it's an angled curb like a driveway curb cut (sorry to bring up a sore topic) and you have to slow down... like driving over a speed bump.

It's really not that hard.

(To be honest, I think it's sort of silly that they raised the bike lane. But since they did, it makes me think of a pretty good solution -- they should cut out from the "buffer" little half parking spots periodically... basically designated double-parking areas for "live loading only" The bike lane would be untouched, it would remain protected because there wouldn't be a reason to drive up there, and delivery trucks would have a place to go... and not even block the parked cars)

Posted by: tybur6 at September 30, 2009 10:07 AM

this is cool and all, but this kind of work and infrastructure costs money. i think people who ride bikes on public roads should be forced to have a license and have to take a written and road test just like people do for cars. it would be a great source of revenue for the city and would cut down on negligent bikers on the road. also a great source of revenue to write up tickets for bikers with no license. things on wheels, ALL kinds of wheels are dangerous and should be treated equally under the law. what's good for the goose is good for the moose.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at September 30, 2009 10:08 AM

Perhaps you could get FedEx to use a big-ass bike with a parcel trailer.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 30, 2009 10:09 AM

Posted by: tybur6 at September 30, 2009 10:07 AM

Excellent idea, in theory.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 30, 2009 10:13 AM

Rob -- I actually have absolutely no problem with that idea. HOWEVER... I would like to suggest, as I did yesterday, that half of the bad bicycle behavior is engendered by the aggressive, disrespectful and dangerous automobile driving! When you get on a bike in NYC, you take on a certain aggressive, survival attitude...

So, feel free to ticket me if I do something bad on my bike... but I'm thinking dangerous, reckless driving that is DEADLY should be tackled first. In the 3 years I've lived here, I've seen a total of 3 cars pulled over. And I'm assuming it's because they were black and not because of their traffic violation. I've lived in 2 other *major* cities in this country and spent a lot of time in major cities around the world... the amazingly dangerous crap that goes on here would NEVER be tolerated anywhere else.

Oh, and all (err... most) of these drivers here have these magic driver's licenses you want bicyclists to have...

Posted by: tybur6 at September 30, 2009 10:16 AM

funny how i've gotten hit by bikes dozens of times in my life, but never by a car. things that make you go hmmmm. like i said, i am NOT pro car. i think they are just as lame as bikes. we have feet people, use them!

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at September 30, 2009 10:21 AM

I agree with your there tybur, I'm still amazed (though I should have become inured to it by now) at the awful driving that is ignored here by the NYPD. My particular bugbear is immature guys racing at high speed down narrow residential streets and immature guys cutting in and out of traffic at high speed, and zipping into people's stopping distances, like its a playstation game.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 30, 2009 10:23 AM

On my street, that has a bike lane, bikers use the entire street, not just the lane & they're often going the wrong way. An old lady almost got knocked down yesterday because she had only looked in the direction of traffic & the biker only j-u-s-t missed her at the last minute.

Posted by: Arkady at September 30, 2009 10:24 AM

Arkady, I know of an awful accident between a frail old chap and a bicyclist (not in the US) that left the old guy bedridden for the rest of his days. I think that now bike riding is increasing in popularity, which is a good thing, steps need to be taken to keep it reasonably safe for everyone. A free-for-all will only end in tears. Simple licensing is a start, a cycling proficiency test and car driver education will all help.

When I run for mayor, traffic rule enforcement, dog-poop enforcement, bike rule enforcement and littering enforcement will be my only campaign platforms.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 30, 2009 10:32 AM

"funny how i've gotten hit by bikes dozens of times in my life"

Rob - you've made a point of saying you stand in bike lanes on purpose when crossing the street and walk out in front of them.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 30, 2009 10:33 AM

"An old lady almost got knocked down yesterday because she had only looked in the direction of traffic & the biker only j-u-s-t missed her at the last minute."

That drives me nuts - always ride with the flow of traffic!!

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 30, 2009 10:34 AM

Arkady... I'm a regular (i.e. daily) bike rider and I can't agree with you more about the wrong-way folks.

More often than not it's a latino delivery guy -- this is an honest question... Is there some sort of cultural thing here? Like their (or their family's) country of origin... mexico, peru, whatever... actually *requires* bike to ride the wrong way down the street? I ask because it actually seems that they are searching out the wrong-way street. Many times I have passed a delivery guy, he turns on the wrong-way street, and we meet up at the other end of the block when I have gone down the right way one block over.

Wrong way traffic needs to stop. It's unsafe for everyone.

Now using the "whole road" -- that's another story. Bikes are not *required* to use the bike lane... and I have to admit that not all bike lanes are safe and I don't always use them. Car doors and pot holes to name a couple of the major dangers.

Posted by: tybur6 at September 30, 2009 10:35 AM

Arkady... I'm a regular (i.e. daily) bike rider and I can't agree with you more about the wrong-way folks.

Wrong way traffic needs to stop.

Posted by: tybur6 at September 30, 2009 10:39 AM

(sorry, I had a feeling that was gonna happen)

Posted by: tybur6 at September 30, 2009 10:39 AM

exits..

Posted by: dittoburg at September 30, 2009 10:45 AM

Was my question offensive?

Posted by: tybur6 at September 30, 2009 11:14 AM

i dont think so tyburg. ive noticed that too. but i notice it with all delivery guys for the most part. i dont mind delivery guys on bikes tho for some reason, they are much safer than the annoying "cyclist" going 100 mph with their 2000 dollar helmut and smuggling plums spandex. they are the worst.

*rob*

Posted by: Butterfly at September 30, 2009 11:17 AM

"i dont mind delivery guys on bikes tho for some reason, they are much safer than the annoying "cyclist" going 100 mph with their 2000 dollar helmut and smuggling plums spandex. they are the worst."

As tybur stated - deliverymen are the ones more likely to be breaking traffic rules while on a bike. They are also the ones less likely to be using the bike lanes.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 30, 2009 11:21 AM

"More often than not it's a latino delivery guy -- this is an honest question... Is there some sort of cultural thing here? Like their (or their family's) country of origin... mexico, peru, whatever... actually *requires* bike to ride the wrong way down the street?"

"Was my question offensive?"

I'm sure it was to latinos, and specifically to latino delivery people. To me, it's simply ignorant. I'm a regular biker, and I've seen plenty of white hipsters ride the wrong way up streets with bike lanes, along with as bikers of several other races. It happens all of the time on Bergen Street in Prospect Heights/Park Slope. What does being Hispanic have to do with it? While I'm sure you've seen several latino delivery guys do this, your response is to conclude it's a "cultural" phenomenon? Idiotic.

Posted by: East New York at September 30, 2009 12:21 PM

yes tyburg, it's offensive. but as with many sterotypes, there's some truth. many countries have much more chaotic traffic patterns, no lanes, marginal enforcement and a free-wheeling ethos, than here. coming from India myself, I find it ridiculous that with the volume of traffic here, people get worked up about cyclists going the wrong way on *residential* streets. get a life, folks.

this is not to excuse the ass&&&& cyclists in spandex who speed along shouting at people, but to say that someone like me, plodding along at my crawl speed on my way home on my 1 way street, is no more a menace than that mom pushing a stroller.

Posted by: cmu at September 30, 2009 12:26 PM

ENY -- I didn't *conclude* anything... I was asking a question to find out if the guys on delivery bikes hail from cultures/societies where bicycles are *expected* to ride against traffic. I wanted to know if my experience was a reflection of what they think is "correct" or if they are just riding against traffic because it's better for them.

I will repeat, this seems to be almost the *rule* for bicycle delivery guys (who tend to be latino immigrants or first generation).... while your hipsters and other folks, I bet the direction they ride is not as consistent. Yeah, of course I've seen it. I've also seen the punk kids do it too... ya know those kids that haven't ever used a trash receptacle. The difference is that they are being assholes and inconsiderate, and don't give a crap if they are causing traffic problems.

I don't think the delivery guys are being inconsiderate -- i'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I am wondering if there is some actual cultural/societal basis for their choice to ride pretty much exclusively against traffic.... which is my experience in observing this "phenomenon" (which is less limited than you portray)

Posted by: tybur6 at September 30, 2009 1:04 PM

"I am wondering if there is some actual cultural/societal basis for their choice to ride pretty much exclusively against traffic.... which is my experience in observing this "phenomenon" (which is less limited than you portray)"

OK, great. Since you need to know about this "less-limited" occurrence, which regardless is NOT a phenomenon, why don't you simply ask some of them?

Walk up to a few Latino delivery guys today and ask, "Is there something in your (or your family's) country of origin that actually *requires* you to bike the wrong way down the street?"

Go ahead, try it. Let me know what kind of responses you get.

Posted by: East New York at September 30, 2009 1:30 PM

Its not a completely ludicrous suggestion. In my old country when walking on a road without a sidewalk it was the law to walk aginst the flow of traffic only.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 30, 2009 1:50 PM

OK, ditto. Why don't you just join tyburg6 and ask a few latino delivery guys? I'm sure you guys will receive an informative answer.

Posted by: East New York at September 30, 2009 2:11 PM

ENY thinks I'm being racist or what not... When in actuality I'm looking for a reason *not* to be completely annoyed with a delivery guy coming at me head on in the bike lane built for one-way traffic.

And did I ever say *all* latino guys? I think I was VERY clear in my description. I'm talking about recent or first generation folks that still have sets of expectations and behaviors associated with their "country of origin." I mean that in a real sense, not in a heritage sense... furthermore, I'm not placing a VALUE judgement on any of the behavior or expectation -- it's just that the CONTEXT has changed. In the current context, riding against the flow of traffic is not acceptable.

So ENY, don't be a dick and read racist or some other malicious intent into things like this.

Posted by: tybur6 at September 30, 2009 2:13 PM

ENY - yea good point you make, so what if the guy hits me - that makes him right, right?

Posted by: dittoburg at September 30, 2009 2:23 PM

I don't find tybur's question racist at all: lets play 20 questions....

Are delivery guys typically the most reckless of all cyclists? YES

Are delivery guys typically latin american? YES

He was just thinking outside the box a little on a possible explanation

**looks out office window, sees delivery guy riding on sidewalk**

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 30, 2009 2:24 PM

Actually, I don't think you're being racist, tyburg6. I think your question was stupid.

"ENY - yea good point you make, so what if the guy hits me - that makes him right, right?"

No, that makes him wrong. It's illegal to bike the wrong way down one-way street. But what does him being Latino have to do with it? I happen to think the notion that riding the wrong way down a one-way street is a particularly Latino phenomenon is ridiculous, got it? I didn't say it was appropriate or legal or "right" to ride the wrong way down a one-way street. Got it?

Posted by: East New York at September 30, 2009 2:47 PM

"Are delivery guys typically latin american? YES"

You're forgetting Chinese food restaurants, of which there are 1,0000s in NYC. Are these bikers typically Latino? Because where I'm from they're mostly Asian.

Posted by: East New York at September 30, 2009 2:49 PM

"And did I ever say *all* latino guys?"

No, you didn't say ALL Latino guys. Nor did you mention any other ethnicity.

Posted by: East New York at September 30, 2009 2:51 PM

"So ENY, don't be a dick"

You first.

Posted by: East New York at September 30, 2009 2:52 PM

I see you're pretty wound up about this with all your psost in a row. I don't agree that it is any one ethnicity that is guilty of contra-flow cycling. But I'm beginning to suspect that you'd take the position that you can't associate any particular behavior with a particular culture, which IS ludicrous.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 30, 2009 3:02 PM

"But I'm beginning to suspect that you'd take the position that you can't associate any particular behavior with a particular culture, which IS ludicrous."

Well I never said that, but if you want to believe that's what I think, feel free.

Posted by: East New York at September 30, 2009 3:06 PM

"You're forgetting Chinese food restaurants, of which there are 1,0000s in NYC. Are these bikers typically Latino? Because where I'm from they're mostly Asian."

My chinese delivery guys are latino - odd as it may seem.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 30, 2009 3:12 PM

ENY, ok, perhaps I was reading between the lines too much.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 30, 2009 3:15 PM

I have all my food delivered by USPS workers who double park in the bike lane in front of my building = )

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at September 30, 2009 3:23 PM

Take notice of the type of person who is sitting in a Brooklyn bike lane. I have. It's more often than not the owner of a shiny SUV, something like a Navigator or a Ford Explorer. The driver is usually quite obese or extremely obese and is also taking up part of the regular lane too. They are usually idling. Go ahead, take the survey, see if my statistics are valid.

Posted by: Epiphany at September 30, 2009 11:18 PM

« Open Thread Time to Think About Your Boiler Again »

September 30, 2009

Updates for Manhattan Bridge Bicyclists

Trackback Pings

Comments

Post a comment

Latest Restaurant Additions