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September 28, 2009
Priciest Brooklyn Sale of '09 is in Gravesend!

Holy moly! The sale of 2111 East 2nd Street in Gravesend for $10.26 million just hit public records, and although the price tag isn't high enough to make it a Brooklyn record, it's definitely the biggest sale of this year, and probably one of the top 10 or so biggest house sales in the borough ever. (Houses in Brooklyn Heights, for example, have traded for more.) Here are the specs on 2111 East 2nd from Property Shark: It's an 8,206-square-foot one-family house that was built in 1998. The buyer of the manse was cloaked behind an LLC.
2111 East 2nd Street Deed [ACRIS] GMAP P*Shark
Photo from Property Shark.
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Comments
A handsome house nevertheless.
Posted by: dittoburg at September 28, 2009 10:35 AM
wow...isn't that miles from everywhere? (apart from what's around it)
Posted by: the chicken at September 28, 2009 10:36 AM
> (apart from what's around it)
What's around it is all that matters in this case, no?
Posted by: DitmasSnark at September 28, 2009 10:37 AM
From Streetview it is definitely the largest and nicest house on the block.. Never buy the nicest house on the block. The photo however doesn't do it justice. it has a large driveway and a really large garage on the right.
All in all, this sounds ludicrous. Is there some much larger FAR ratio that will allow this to come down and turned into a massive condo complex that won't sell for years???
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 28, 2009 10:39 AM
DIBS;
I really think you should take a look at this area in person before you make the above comments. I know this area very, very well. I grew up not too far from this home (on the much, MUCH more modest west side of Gravesend) and my folks still live there. The area between Kings Highway and Ave U., from McDonald Ave to Ocean parkway, is trully magnificant. The home pictured here is not the best one in that area, BY FAR.
Posted by: benson at September 28, 2009 10:42 AM
8,200 Square Feet! Yowzers!
Posted by: tybur6 at September 28, 2009 10:42 AM
I think MrMuffett bought it in a bidding war for his wife.
Posted by: Petebklyn at September 28, 2009 10:43 AM
benson, but it was the best one on THAT street.
Aside, what do you think about the price paid for that???
$1,251 psf!!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 28, 2009 10:45 AM
pimpish
Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 28, 2009 10:46 AM
It's georgian, dh. i wouldn't call it pimpish. Don't know what the inside looks like though.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 28, 2009 10:48 AM
What the house looks like and size is secondary. The buyer is likely part of the established Syrian Jew community in that area. So the primary cause of the high price is (drum roll please.....)
location.
Shocker! $10 mil for a Gravesend house or Central Park West condo. Guess which they will choose 99.99% of the time? The other .01 will be excommunicated.
Posted by: crimsonson at September 28, 2009 10:49 AM
Between this thread and the one about the Meier building, I think there is alot of envy running through Brownstoner today.
Posted by: benson at September 28, 2009 10:50 AM
This home was likely transacted from one Syrian Jewish family to another. It is located in a well kept sub-section of Gravesend which is a tightly knit ethnic enclave. I believe other posters have commented about the home pricing in this sub-section on prior posts. The pricing here is certainly not representative of the overall market in the surrounding area and in my opinion , it is the result of insular real estate practices.
Posted by: Crescent Hill at September 28, 2009 10:50 AM
" I think there is alot of envy running through Brownstoner today."
no doubt - so this place isn't worth 10 million dollars because it isn't near a bunch of mediocre restaurants and crappy bars on 5th ave? oooookay
Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 28, 2009 10:51 AM
Crescent Hill is on the money with his 10:50 post. I used to work for a Syrian Catering Hall on Ocean PKWY and avenue T. They only use a couple of brokers in the area and you can ONLY buy within those blocks these days if you're a part of the community. The houses only pass from one Syrian Jewish family to another and unless you're part of that community, the local brokers will not show you the houses.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at September 28, 2009 10:56 AM
Why is it that when people express their opinion about something that you don't happen to agree with their envious? Why can't they just be stating the obvious...or what's obvious in in their minds?
Just wondering.
Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at September 28, 2009 10:58 AM
This house is worth 10 million for the buyer due to the proximity to the temple. I have heard they have there own private security force
Posted by: bitter_bubble_buyer at September 28, 2009 10:58 AM
Muffett is probably very common Syrian Jewish name.
Posted by: Petebklyn at September 28, 2009 11:00 AM
benson, I'm with CHL on this thread. Where's the envy?
Posted by: dittoburg at September 28, 2009 11:02 AM
Benson...I'm glad I'm not alone on this one.
Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at September 28, 2009 11:06 AM
"Where's the envy?"
You asked, I'll reply.
I'd like folks to find FIVE posts in the entire history of Brownstoner that spoke admirably of a house that is outside the Brownstone Brooklyn area. Name a wealthy area in Brooklyn that is outside of the Brownstone Belt - Gravesend, Mill Basin, Dyker Heights or Bay Ridge - and show me where there isn't an insinuation that:
a) the folks who bought the property must be some type of whacko for paying for a home that is tasteless, taste being defined as ONLY a home that approximates an 1860 era brownstone;
b) their low level of taste is proof that they must be a mafioso of some sort, be it the original Italian mafia,or a version of it that applies to other ethnic groups.
This attempt at ridicule masks the true emotion at play, which is envy.
Posted by: benson at September 28, 2009 11:13 AM
Benson may be off the deep end today, but at least he correctly uses the word "envy" rather than "jealousy."
Posted by: DitmasSnark at September 28, 2009 11:16 AM
I think we can all agree that those comments are over the top and maybe even rude but envious they are not. Just because I don't like a property or think it's overpriced or designed poorly doesn't mean I'm jealous and want what they have. It simple means that I don't like a property or think it's overpriced or designed poorly...Folks read into stuff entirely to much.
Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at September 28, 2009 11:20 AM
DS - yes, he does get points for that.
Posted by: dittoburg at September 28, 2009 11:20 AM
Oh and by the way it's a very nice piece of property BUT IN MY HUMBLE OPINION IT IS OVER PRICED!
But I guess I'm just filled with envy and not an opinion.
Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at September 28, 2009 11:22 AM
The houses only pass from one Syrian Jewish family to another and unless you're part of that community, the local brokers will not show you the houses.
Racism at its finest.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 28, 2009 11:26 AM
I'm with CHL and dittoburg. Obviously other factors besides the market are i play here- fine if someone really wants to pay that much - no matter how great the neighborhood or delightful the house, it's not a $10 mil house. It's not a diss on the neighborhood or anything else to say so.
Posted by: bxgrl at September 28, 2009 11:26 AM
Benson, you're quite right that it's rare to find a positive word on this blog about properties outside of Brownstone Brooklyn, but that's because, you know, this site is called BROWNSTONER and we like BROWNSTONES! Where you're wrong is in thinking that envy has anything to do with it. And I'm sure the folks that buy homes in Gravesend and Mill Basin think WE'RE the wackos for sinking millions into narrow old 19th century townhouses with no garages, etc., and they certainly don't envy us, either!
Posted by: Park Sloper at September 28, 2009 11:26 AM
Park Sloper and all;
I think I know the difference between folks making comments akin to "this is not my cup of tea" and comments that deride a house and its inhabitants.
Think I'm making it up? Just go to the recent thread of the house in Bay Ridge. Comments about "Tony Soprano" and bullet-proof glass. When it was revealed that the owner was Greek, the jokes shifted gear.
Posted by: benson at September 28, 2009 11:31 AM
Big Big Price tags makes a beautiful house get nasty looks. This is one such example. would be same case if a nice brownstone sold for 10M too - in that scenario, we would be getting a few "is this in Manhattan?"
Posted by: more4less at September 28, 2009 11:32 AM
I can't say its overpriced, location is by far the most important factor in determining price and this location is extremely desireable to the buyers who are competing with other buyers with the same desire.
I have friends who think you should be certified as insane if you buy a condo with no land and no garden and which is 30 flrs higher up than you could jump out of if there was a fire and reasonably expect to live. Consequently, a quarter of Manhattan 3-bed apartments - they wouldn't give you 50 cents for let alone 2.5 million.
Posted by: dittoburg at September 28, 2009 11:35 AM
Whether comments are positive or negative should not matter if it's ones honest opinion. If a restaurant of the day serves sub par food then I'm going to say so. If another has great service then I'm going to say so. It's not about positive or negative ... it's about everyone's opinion. And yes folks do go over board and can at times be nasty but at the end of the day they are just expressing their opinion...whether you or I agree or not.
Now on to bigger issues...."The houses only pass from one Syrian Jewish family to another and unless you're part of that community, the local brokers will not show you the houses.
Racism at its finest."
What the HELL is that about? Aren't there laws against this type of foolishness?
Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at September 28, 2009 11:35 AM
David, agreed but that's how it works around there.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at September 28, 2009 11:35 AM
CHL,
There are laws against it but how the heck are you going to find out if the house is on the market if the local brokers never put the signs outside or list it on MLS. They only return phone calls when you are a confirmed member of the community with is only about 1,000 to 2,000 families so everyone knows everyone else. I am not saying that's it's fair but that's the way it works in that nabe.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at September 28, 2009 11:38 AM
c'mon Benson. Truth is most comments about brownstones in brownstone neighborhoods are dissed pretty consistently too.
Too close to this, too far from that, too much traffic, not the right layout, too narrow, awful kitchen> it is almost a contest to who can come up with most negatives.
Posted by: Petebklyn at September 28, 2009 11:41 AM
Kensingtonian....simply shameful.
Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at September 28, 2009 11:41 AM
okay seriously if what that poster said is true that brokers will ONLY show you the house if you are part of 'the community'. why is this discrimination even allowed and overlooked? it's illegal yet a blind eye is put on the disgraceful discriminatory practise. BARF! i hope this house gets bedbugs
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at September 28, 2009 11:45 AM
Benson is RIGHT of course.
this being a 10 million dollar house is not any crazier than a brownstone being a 2 or 3 million dollar house
Posted by: wine lover at September 28, 2009 11:46 AM
Rob...lol.
Wine Lover...you can't be serious!
Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at September 28, 2009 11:48 AM
Shameful....maybe....but be careful you guys. The wrong oinions can get you in trouble.
Personally I think the houses here, in Williamsburgh and in Crown Heights are perfect.
Posted by: moreteasir at September 28, 2009 11:54 AM
Pete;
All of the factors you talked about in your post -"Too close to this, too far from that, too much traffic, not the right layout, too narrow, awful kitchen" are legitimate real estate pricing issues.
That is a far cry from being incredulous that other forms of real estate could fetch a pretty penny, and then impugning the owner.
CHL;
You seem like a nice person, and I'm sure you mean what you write. However, I'm not convinced of what you say. I'll draw on my own experience (and perhaps that is not applicable to everyone else). When I have no interest in a type of real estate, I do not study its pricing, and therefore I don't feel qualified to make a comment on it. For instance, you'd have to put a gun to my head to buy a brownstone (sorry folks, that's the way I feel). As such, you will never see me commenting on the price of brownstones on this site.
Posted by: benson at September 28, 2009 11:55 AM
lol, Benson.....it must be torture to visit the site as much as you do!
Posted by: moreteasir at September 28, 2009 12:03 PM
this being a 10 million dollar house is not any crazier than a brownstone being a 2 or 3 million dollar house
Posted by: wine lover at September 28, 2009 11:46 AM
More stupidity.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 28, 2009 12:03 PM
Benson...thanks for the kind words. And there are many people who think brownstones are over rated and would never buy one. I respect that and don't think your envious of someone who happens to own one. I love brownstones...grow-up in one actually but I can understand your position and opinion.
Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at September 28, 2009 12:06 PM
Moreteasir;
Not at all. I like breaking the balls of the smug!
Posted by: benson at September 28, 2009 12:07 PM
I'm not sure if I agree or disagree about the whole envy/jealousy arugment, but I'll say this much: Every house sold in Brooklyn, or the U.S. for that matter, is worth every penny of its sale price - at least to the purchaser. If it wasn't, the purchaser would not have paid whatever price it went for. It matters not whether any of us sideline sammies feel the price is reasonable. A seller need only find that one person who is willing to pay the ask, or something they find palatable. I can't tell any of you what any particular dwelling in any given neighborhood is worth to you and your family and the reverse is true as well. Opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one and B'stoner is nothing more than our chance to put our booties on display. I think that if folks remembered that, we'd all be fine.
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at September 28, 2009 12:09 PM
benson, you are riding a high horse today.
I don't get your repeated accusations of envy.
Some of our fellow posters may be accused of being snooty or ignorant or chauvenistic towards their own little enclave, but I don't see the envy.
Posted by: Minard Lafever at September 28, 2009 12:15 PM
"Sideline Sammies" lol.
Snappy...point well taken.
Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at September 28, 2009 12:16 PM
CHL, it is shameful but it basically works like a co-op board in sorts but instead of a building, you have a community that spans about 20 blocks radius where the community members are willing to pay for the location to be part of that said community. Syrian community is very close knit and that has been for many many generations. They only go to their local synagogue and marry only within their local community and businesses trade hands only amongst members of the community. Our comments on brownstoner will never change that and it has been like that for hundreds of years.
P.S. Yes they do have private security in the neighborhood and most of the security force are retired cops or off-duty police officers.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at September 28, 2009 12:17 PM
lol, well let me step aside Benson!
Posted by: moreteasir at September 28, 2009 12:18 PM
and Rob,
THAT poster happens to be ME! lol. You know who I am, we had plenty of drinks together at the bstoner gatherings. :o)
Posted by: Kensingtonian at September 28, 2009 12:19 PM
Snappy, sounds like you haven't encounter the not-so-rare "crap comes out of mouth 24/7" types
Posted by: more4less at September 28, 2009 12:19 PM
i guess it takes 10 million dollars to live in a racist "enclave". the whole brokers only showing this to certain members of society is really disgusting. ill never understand why religion gets a free pass for such practices. grrrrr.
maybe my dream will come true one day and satanists will take over park slope and only show houses to other satanists. rich satanists with 100 dollar bills flying out of their buttholes.
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at September 28, 2009 12:19 PM
"Some of our fellow posters may be accused of being snooty or ignorant or chauvenistic towards their own little enclave, but I don't see the envy. "
Minard;
OK, point taken. Yes, snootiness, ignorance and chauvenism(sp?) are what we see on the surface of these posts. With the charge of envy,I'm speculating as to the "root cause" of this behavior. Hey, I can play armchair psychologist, can't I?
Posted by: benson at September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
*rob*
....already happened, they're called democrats.
Posted by: moreteasir at September 28, 2009 12:32 PM
Rob - whattaya mean maybe one day?
Posted by: Sparafucile at September 28, 2009 12:33 PM
"satanists will take over park slope and only show houses to other satanists."
THAT's your dream??
Posted by: East New York at September 28, 2009 12:39 PM
My next film treatment: Rosemary's Bugaboo.
Posted by: DitmasSnark at September 28, 2009 1:06 PM
InsertSnappyName is correct... this house is not overpriced because someone bought it. bxgirl... this IS a 10 milion dollar house. in fact, it's a 10.26 million dollar house.
and all this talk about it being an insular community makes no sense either. real estate is all about location. do you think those 500k one bedroom apartments in park slope or dumbo are the norm outside of NYC? it makes no sense to people who don't live here. this whole city is an insular community!
Posted by: TD at September 28, 2009 1:24 PM
That's odd- And to think, they got it from the Republicans who in the last 8 years proved they never met a dollar they wouldn't blow.
Posted by: bxgrl at September 28, 2009 1:29 PM
TD- am I the only one saying that? Yes someone paid that much for it but look at the market. There are thousands of people underwater now who paid more than their house was really worth- based on many many factors. It's artificially inflated and that's a fact.
Posted by: bxgrl at September 28, 2009 1:31 PM
Benson: glad to see you're backing down on the envy nonsense.
Here's a dictionary definition of the word: "A feeling of discontent and ill will because of another's advantages, possessions, etc.; resentful dislike of another who has something that one desires."
I daresay that most readers of this blog have no desire whatsoever to live in a house like the one featured, so envy has nothing to do with it. Except in your case, perhaps, since you apparently wouldn't buy a brownstone even if your life were at stake? (Why DO you spend so much time, then, on a website devoted to brownstone living? Just asking.)
Posted by: Park Sloper at September 28, 2009 1:32 PM
PS'er:
How about envy over the fact that a house like THAT could fetch $10M?? Perish the thought....
As to your question: I have an interest in Brooklyn real estate, of all types.
Posted by: benson at September 28, 2009 1:39 PM
The house looks nice from outside and am sure plenty of deluxe on inside but (and am just throwing out a figure, I am not a insurance appraiser) 10 years old and probably can be dublicated or rebuilt for a couple million.
So what is fascinating is that it is the land/lot that is so very very expensive and nearby neighborhood is much more modest although still nice.
Posted by: Petebklyn at September 28, 2009 1:41 PM
Once you actually buy a house, the market value then becomes what the NEXT person will pay for it....not what you just paid for it.
Posted by: Brokedeveloper at September 28, 2009 1:44 PM
so - what would this have sold for at height of the market?
Is this down 10, 20 ,30%?
Posted by: Petebklyn at September 28, 2009 1:48 PM
Broke, I'm not speaking in terms of market value. I'm talking about what it's worth to the buyer. And many aspects of that value cannot be quantified in terms of money.
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at September 28, 2009 1:53 PM
Once you actually buy a house, the market value then becomes what the NEXT person will pay for it....not what you just paid for it.
Posted by: Brokedeveloper at September 28, 2009 1:44 PM
nope, it's suggestive at best.
Posted by: more4less at September 28, 2009 1:58 PM
It's artificially inflated and that's a fact.
Posted by: bxgrl at September 28, 2009 1:31 PM
TD- As noted above, this is most certainly the case here. The discussion regarding insular real estate practices makes all the sense in the world when discussing this home. The value/pricing is artificial, as , I am sure was the selling process. There was surely no signage, no advertising, except in a very localized yellow book type publication frequented by community members in this sub section. In addition,, the all knowing, all seeing, "community funded" security patrol there is no coincidence, it is integral to the control/grip of the enclave on the available properties.
Posted by: Crescent Hill at September 28, 2009 2:01 PM
These comments drive me nuts.
If you truly fall in love with Brooklyn... and your children love their hometown... and their children also love their hometown... and all of a sudden Brooklyn truly becomes your hometown... when you want a bigger home, a yard, a driveway, AND to be close to your family you end up venturing further out into "undiscovered by you" areas of Brooklyn. Westchester is not an option for multi generational Brooklynites.
Same goes for multi generational Manhattanites. Nothing wrong with wanting to stay close to grandma in your hometown.
We are city folk AND we are townies.... for life.
Posted by: eastriver at September 28, 2009 2:42 PM
The Times ran a fascinating, in-depth profile of the Syrian Jewish community in 2007 that will explain the sky-high price tag (and offers what seems like a balanced look at the community's virtues and vices):
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/magazine/14syrians-t.html
Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at September 28, 2009 3:17 PM
got kidneys?
Posted by: lurks at September 28, 2009 3:42 PM
Thanks, Brenda -- what an interesting article! And it mentions a house that sold for $11 million in 2003.
Posted by: babs at September 28, 2009 3:51 PM
Why don't you BSer's just bypass the riducule and go directly to the death camps for all etnic whites?
Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at September 28, 2009 3:51 PM
Sounds like a delightful group of people, Brenda.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 28, 2009 3:53 PM
Where do the poor ones live??? the ones that can't come up with $10 MM???
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 28, 2009 3:54 PM
Dave, the poor ones are more towards midwood from Avenue I to avenue R. From R to about X is where all the houses that sell for over 3 mil.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at September 28, 2009 3:57 PM
Well thought-out comment there by "Joe from Brooklyn"
Posted by: dittoburg at September 28, 2009 4:01 PM
Are people really so shocked? It's not any different from the upscale white protestant neighborhoods all over this country that found ways to keep out Catholics, Jews and non-whites. Those practices ended whenever a wealthy person who could otherwise afford a house sued the neighborhood or seller's broker or whomever participated in the discrimination. It happened in a neighborhood in the FL town where I went to high school as recently as the 80's. I guess somebody could sue to buy a house in Gravesend if anybody other than Syrian Jews had any interest whatsoever in living there. Much less spending $10 million to do so.
Posted by: traditionalmod at September 28, 2009 4:18 PM
you guys are reading into this all wrong. they dont keep people out as a goal. thats just the outcome of the high demand for the houses and the wealth within the community. I dont think people realize how many billionaires live in Gravesend and how big there families are. There are at least 3 guys who are BIG time real estate moguls. The demand for housing in the prime Gravesend is so high that it is sold before it even comes on the market. The area has private security detail that is paid for by the community.
Posted by: bitter_bubble_buyer at September 28, 2009 4:32 PM
This is silly, it makes no dif whether the brokers are 'racist' because the fact of the matter is that no one outside the Syrian Jewish community would pay anything near that for this house. So no one is being unfairly excluded.
Posted by: denton at September 28, 2009 4:35 PM
So no one is being unfairly excluded.
Posted by: denton at September 28, 2009 4:35 PM
Wrong Denton- The inflated pricing and collaborative behavior serves to keep these fine properties available to only a select group of Brooklyn families. I agree with you in the sense that most people outside the enclave would have no particular desire to live within the enclave, however, this does not make the overall practices right and just.
Posted by: Crescent Hill at September 28, 2009 5:19 PM
What a really nice $350K house anywhere else in the entire USA
Posted by: williamsburgguy at September 28, 2009 7:00 PM
As with the critique of the "Mc Mansion" in Sheepshead Bay, the predictable, petty bourgeois, condescending sentiments from this site on anyone who dares to live outside the "brownstone belt aesthetic" and not follow the ethos of P.S. 321 brigade, is almost certain.
It's no coincidence that in many a developing country, whether it's the Caribbean or Latin America, from Trinidad & Tobago to Mexico, the major modes of industry are controlled by a Family or two of Syrian/Lebanese decent. Marrying out of the community is strictly forbidden, doing business with outsiders are frowned upon. There is an enormous concentration of wealth with virtually no philanthropy outside of the said group. Hence, when someone wants an 8000+SF house, they buy one, regardless of the price.
Posted by: Crownlfc at September 28, 2009 10:45 PM
What are you positing, a worldwide Syrian Jewish conspiracy? Don't be ridiculous. How offensive.
Posted by: mopar at September 28, 2009 11:42 PM
Hmmm, Interesting. I stated the documented modus operandi of a small segment of the Syrian/Lebanese Diaspora - its elite merchant class, as covered by any journalist that has done a story on them. I NEVER used the words "Jewish" or "conspiracy", YOU DID. Please, Mopar - if you have issues of your own anti-Semitism or self-hatred to deal with, please don't project it on me. FYI, it may come as a shock to you but most Syrians aren’t Jewish.
Posted by: Crownlfc at September 29, 2009 8:34 AM
touchiest group of posters. ever. gets worse here with every passing week. my $0.02 is that the folks screaming racism/envy could be taken down a notch. GMAFB.
if i were the irs...i'd be investigating these types of sales quite closely. these kind of transactions can occur to launder money. just saying.
from an economics standpoint, you'd have to measure supply vs demand. is there really such a heavy demand from this one limited demographic that the supply can't keep up? it's not so hard to know. someone with time could define the enclave boundaries and search comps. on the face of it, it seems unlikely but i'd be open to someone showing me the data (and more than a handful of comps, at that).
Posted by: antidope at September 29, 2009 10:17 AM
Check the information on the owner of the house at 2021 East 13th, the listed address of the LLC that bought the property. Doesn't look to me like a Syrian Jewish name. In fact, it looks Italian.
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/BBLResult
Posted by: Lisanne at September 29, 2009 11:59 AM

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