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September 17, 2009

House of the Day: 7543 Shore Road

7543-Shore-Road-0909.jpg
Some folks got a little grumpy a couple of weeks ago when we poked some fun at a McMansion in Bay Ridge, saying we should have focused on some of the beautiful architecture in the area (and there's plenty). Today's House of the Day at 7543 Shore Road isn't the finest example in the nabe, but it's got a nice feel to it, plus it's gigantic and has water views. It ain't cheap though! $4,200,000. Hmmmm.
7543 Shore Road [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark





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Comments

I'm glad they showed the photo of the room with the stenciled grape leaves so we know what we are in for. I thinka thatsa nice.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 1:19 PM

Now this I love. I'm a big sucker for a harbor view. I hate the belt keeping you from the water in that area. The price is sticky though- especially if it needs tons of work. I don't think they're going to get that price. I think they should have started the house in the 3's. However, 2.9 could probably get the deal done.

Posted by: hooky at September 17, 2009 1:22 PM

Actually- I bet those leaves would look perfectly at home with a big old chunky antique table and chairs. I'm loving it.

Posted by: hooky at September 17, 2009 1:24 PM

Wowzers. Not enough pics!

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 17, 2009 1:24 PM

From the GMAP, that's a lot of distance between the house and the actual shore.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 1:25 PM

It's not waterfront - but it looks as though there is some sort of park across the street- followed by shore parkway, so views should be protected.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 17, 2009 1:27 PM

Only 1 interior pic? "A diamond in the rough" that "needs tlc"? For $4.2 million? Exterior of the house looks very nice, lot size is great, and views are fantastic, but for $4.2 million, I want my diamond cut, polished and set in platinum.

Posted by: CarrollGardened at September 17, 2009 1:29 PM

UMMMM hipster, this is what the Corcoran listing says:


"Location Location Location!! This is a rare opportunity to own a waterfront home"

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 1:32 PM

Yes DH - there are no houses directly on the waterfront on Shore Road as the park is on the water side of the street all the way down. That said most of the houses will have good water views as they are up a slope from the shore.

I like the house and love the location, but for that price could buy two of something I'd like just as much. Assuming I ever had that kind of $$, of course.

Posted by: etson at September 17, 2009 1:36 PM

Since there are no indoor pictures I assume this is being peddled as a tear-down. Looks lovely from the outside. If global warming keeps up (or one category 3 hurricane)this will be waterfront in about 10 years.

Posted by: DeLepp at September 17, 2009 1:38 PM

they're

Posted by: DeLepp at September 17, 2009 1:41 PM

Location Location Location

Not Manhattan Not Manhattan Not Manhattan

Not Brooklyn Heights Not Brooklyn Heights

$4.2 mio $4.2 mio $4.2 mio

WTF! WTF! WTF!

A perfect example of why ask prices don't matter. Show me a comp PLEASE.

Posted by: antidope at September 17, 2009 1:43 PM

FINALLY!!!!
The south is being feaured on Brownstoner.
How much nosie will plastic pumps make on that wood floor?
The ceilings are high for big hair.

Not the best example of the best homes in Bay Ridge by far. But the location is great.
The price is VERY ambitious.
Looking at the water is awesome. Looking at Staten Island not so awesome.

Posted by: Return of bayridgegirl at September 17, 2009 1:44 PM

So if this is a true wreck, what do such properties usually go for in the Ridge?

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at September 17, 2009 1:45 PM

Antidope, safe to assume if you were to bid, you would low-ball the seller big time too?

Posted by: more4less at September 17, 2009 1:46 PM

The pic is misleading. The lawn and stone wall shown do not belong to the house, but to it's nieghbor, which is truly set back far from the Shore Road. This house is set back , but not exceedingly so, which allows for a larger backyard area given a 200 foot lot line. It has decent frontage , which is not evidenced in the photo. It is in fairly good condition with older finishings/ well maintained old type cloth awnings . In my opinion, it is not overdone and retains a fair degree of old Shore Road character. The stenciling referenced earlier is unlikely to be of unsightly grape leaves, but floral , likely done by a local artist. Not my taste , but probably favored by the elderly woman who once resided there. The home is overpriced, but this harbor facing home will probably fetch over three million. It also sits on the curve of the road that is fairly distant from the highway, which means less road noise.

Posted by: Crescent Hill at September 17, 2009 1:46 PM

No, DeLepp, "there are" is correct.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 1:46 PM

It's waterfront in the sense that the water is sorta in front of it - not in the suburban waterfront sense that you have your own private beach and have to freak out whenever a hurricane/noreaster decides to drop by.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 17, 2009 1:47 PM

dibs, got the mind shakes from no martinis this week so far.....

Posted by: DeLepp at September 17, 2009 1:50 PM

From Bloomberg:

Household Net Worth in U.S. Increases by $2 trillion, First gain Since '07

It climbed from $51.1 Tr to $53.1 Tr in the second quarter

You fence sitters better think about whether or not you want to buy something. Miss Muffett??????

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 1:52 PM

Also, Madoff's Montauk waterfront home (truly waterfront) was listed for $7MM and just sold for $8.75 MM

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 1:53 PM

hands off boys, I've already put my offer in....

Posted by: the chicken at September 17, 2009 1:54 PM

Though I think this maybe now classified as in a flood zone, remembering seeing an article last week in wsj about low lying areas in nyc.

http://tinyurl.com/ms3soe

Posted by: DeLepp at September 17, 2009 1:56 PM

This is just weird to me. That it is asking 4.2 seems nearly absurd, though I don't know Bay Ridge that well. I'm surprised readers and 'widgeteers' are giving it a 3.4 million dollar price tag as reasonable guesstimate.

A 'waterfront home' - but with roads, baseball fields a park and the enormous belt-friggin'-parkway in between? Needs TLC, and no floor plan? Come ON.

Is it just me, or is this comically off?

Posted by: Nokilissa at September 17, 2009 1:58 PM

For anyone who hasn't taken a stroll down Shore Rd. I'd highly recommend it. beautiful homes and yes, great views.

Even so, this is still overpriced.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at September 17, 2009 1:58 PM

dibs, did you like the madoff houses? Beach house left me cold. Didn't much care for their penthouse either.

Posted by: DeLepp at September 17, 2009 1:59 PM

Noki- it's notoriously lazy Corcoran brokers who can't be bothered to work for that commission.

Posted by: bxgrl at September 17, 2009 2:00 PM

Flood insurance is not cheap. It is necessary to get any kind of payment from your primary insurer from anything caused by flooding without it. If this is listed as "flood palin" which it most likely is, you must get it if you have any mortgage.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 2:02 PM

DeLepp, I'm with you on the Montauk house - it did nothing for me. Haven't toured the PH yet, but don't love the location.

bxgrl, not to worry, I won't be buying it for you.

Posted by: CarrollGardened at September 17, 2009 2:03 PM

DeLepp, I'm with you on the Montauk house - it did nothing for me. Haven't toured the PH yet, but don't love the location.

bxgrl, not to worry, I won't be buying it for you.

Posted by: CarrollGardened at September 17, 2009 2:03 PM

The penthouse was OK but ther's a lot better out there. i did not like the beach house at all. I assume it will be a tear-down.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 2:03 PM

"flood palin", dave?

Must that family be dragged into every discussion these days?

Posted by: CarrollGardened at September 17, 2009 2:04 PM

Or is "Flood" the name of their newest kid?

Posted by: CarrollGardened at September 17, 2009 2:05 PM

OMG...I didn't even see that. I once typed "palin stupid" on here for "plain stupid."

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 2:07 PM

ROFL, dave

Posted by: CarrollGardened at September 17, 2009 2:09 PM

But C Gar- I'm annoyed with the brokers. I love the house! So much potential!! Please....please!

Posted by: bxgrl at September 17, 2009 2:09 PM

Out of curiosity, why would anyone pay $4.2 million to live in Bayridge, Brooklyn? I understand that reasons to live B'lyn, but Bayridge is so far from all that Manhattan and Brooklyn have to offer, why not move to the suburbs at that point? You can buy a really nice home on the water in Larchmont, with a 30 minute commute by train to GCT for that price? Please explain....

Posted by: Splenda at September 17, 2009 2:10 PM

But, bxgrl, you're worthy of so much more than a "moonstone in the rough" $4.2 million tear-down.

Posted by: CarrollGardened at September 17, 2009 2:12 PM

thl, shore road was a revelation when I first saw it. Bay Ridge would be a great alternative if I was a morning person, just too far to commute for me.

Posted by: DeLepp at September 17, 2009 2:15 PM

But sweetie- we don't know it's a teardown because the brokers are too damn lazy to get pictures. Can we at least go look? See? There's room for the dog to run and I'm sure an extra room for the cats to destroy.

Posted by: bxgrl at September 17, 2009 2:15 PM

Good point, DeLepp.

My bfs would NEVER come to visit me way out here no matter how nice the house was.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 2:16 PM

"if I was a morning person"

DeLepp, if that were my only criteria, I'd have to move to my office.

bxgrl, as long as you're looking out for the dog, we can look.

Posted by: CarrollGardened at September 17, 2009 2:19 PM

dibs, I had trouble getting boys to the heights, can only imagine what I would have had to do to get them to bay ridge. The owl park could have again been an alternative.

Posted by: DeLepp at September 17, 2009 2:21 PM

I haven't had any trouble getting guys to the hood. Well, some of them do come from points further east though. :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 2:24 PM

This house is insanely expensive. We're not talking the Malibu coast here.

That being said, I don't think you can compare Bay Ridge with Westchester. From the location of this house, if one has a car, they can get into the city quite easily (and much more quickly than once could travel from Westchester). Sure, the rush hour commute or subway ride would be longer, but we're not talking about a serious hike from Manhattan.

Also, note that, while some people may prefer to move out to the suburbs and are ok with a bedroom community lifestyle, others might want to stay in Brooklyn to maintain an urban lifestyle. Bay Ridge is no bedroom community, but it will get you more space for your family without having to compromise being in a vibrant city community.

Interesting that someone would comment that this neighborhood far from what Brooklyn has to offer. Bay Ridge has some of the best restaurants and parks in all of Brooklyn. It may not be "hip" like Smith Street, but Smith Street was far from cool just 8 years ago. I'd take a good restaurant in Bay Ridge and put it up against a good resto in Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Brooklyn Heights or Park Slope any day of the week. Just saying...

Posted by: bkoriginal at September 17, 2009 2:27 PM

Is this house within walking distance of any restaurants? It'd take a car service forever to get here if you want to go out and get liquored up and not drive home yourself.

Serious question about restaurants within walking distance.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 2:31 PM

This is the best part of the best street in Bayridge but 4 million dollars? For a tear-down? No way. The house is pretty understated for four million. No pool, no guest house, no private pier. Delusional. There are far better pickings in the real suburbs -and you don't have to worry that your children will start talking like Vinny from Saturday night fever.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at September 17, 2009 2:43 PM

bkoriginal,

I understand the perspective of wanting to maintain an urban lifestyle, but is Bay Ridge such a lifestyle? I guess I dont see the advantages of this location to Westchester - similar commutes; both suburban feel; both need cars; etc.

Also, how long does it take to commute by subway to midtown from here? How long to drive in non-rush hour traffic?

Posted by: Splenda at September 17, 2009 2:46 PM

I've been getting to know the Shore Road area better lately, and it's a gorgeous place to live. The big commercial drags (86th St. with Century 21, restaurants aplenty--many of them excellent--along the avenues) are not within easy walking distance, and the wind that defeated the Spanish Armada blows in off the harbor. But the views are heart-stopping; even Staten Island looks like a dreamscape at sunset, and the tankers and tugs pull by as the Verrazano lights twinkle in the distance. The "waterfront" is a park across Shore Road, similar to Riverside Drive (ie. it's not like a beach). Bay Ridge itself is alleged to be changing and becoming more diverse, but it's still something of a white bastion and the Italian presence is still strong, with all that probably implies for the comfort level of a black family were they to buy in.

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at September 17, 2009 2:49 PM

well, that was an unnecessary comment.

Posted by: bxgrl at September 17, 2009 2:54 PM

"There are far better pickings in the real suburbs -and you don't have to worry that your children will start talking like Vinny from Saturday night fever."

Oh sh!t. **giggling**

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at September 17, 2009 2:54 PM

4.2 million needing TLC? At that price the only TLC going into this place should be TBoz, Left Eye's ghost and Chili.

Posted by: kissera at September 17, 2009 2:55 PM

Splenda, first, disclaimer -- I went to high school in Bay Ridge (well, Dyker), so I'm actually very comfortable in the area. I recently moved here from Carroll Gardens. I loved living in CG, but it wasn't affordable as our family started to grow and required more space. For me, personally, having grown up in Brooklyn, there was no way I was heading out to the suburbs. To me it IS a totally different lifestyle. In Bay Ridge, I'm still able to roll out of my house and run down the block to the bank, coffee, grocery shopping, pharmacy, dinner, take my kids for ice cream, etc. I have a million restaurants -- greek, middle eastern, italian, spanish, diner, thai, mexican, vietnamese -- all within walking distance. It takes me about 40 minutes to get to work in the am, and it takes my husband just under an hour. On the weekends, we're in Manhattan with our car in 20 minutes (we also have parking at our house here). At the end of the day, it's a lifestyle choice. For us, since the nabes closer to the city have gotten insanely insanely expensive for a family that would like 1500+ square feet and more than 2 bedrooms, we preferred staying in brooklyn and moving a bit further out, than living in a community that was, well, mostly houses and golf courses.

Posted by: bkoriginal at September 17, 2009 3:08 PM

Thanks for your post bkoriginal at September 17, 2009 2:27 PM, I chose not to respond to Poster Splenda's " Why Would Anyone" post due to it's condescending tone. (Similarly I would not respond directly to any post which espouses tired, ludicrous & needless ethnic & race related implications that attempt to portray an entire group and area negatively.) I agree with Splenda , in the sense that what a particular area has to offer a person is relative to the person or the lifestyle they desire. Granted this home is overpriced by, at a minimum , $1,000,0000. ..... This house is not a teardown. It will sell and will likely be subject to unfortunate updating and change. This seems to be the nature of the beast in Bay Ridge ( not bayridge, Splenda). Also, Bay Ridge's Shore Road never truly boasted " Waterfront" homes. Homes on the road were always road facing, beyond the road was rocky beach and piers. In the early 20th century the road was graded and most of it's hills were flattened. Before the grading it was literally a roller coaster landscape fronted by large homes. The character of the area was further eroded when Robert Moses ran the Belt Parkway around it, essentially cutting off the Shore Road from the Shoreline. We have lived on and around this road for the last 131 years, so I have become aware of some of these facts over my lifetime.

Posted by: Crescent Hill at September 17, 2009 3:12 PM

Household net worth as percent of disposable personal income is still about 13 percent less than what it was 6 years ago, so I wouldn't get too excited about the little increase, DIBS.

Posted by: Back40 at September 17, 2009 3:14 PM

"4.2 million needing TLC? At that price the only TLC going into this place should be TBoz, Left Eye's ghost and Chili."

ahha nice!!

Posted by: dirty_hipster at September 17, 2009 3:21 PM

living in bay ridge? come to maplewood. lower taxes, much cheaper and a better commute.

-- Maplewood Guy.

Posted by: antidope at September 17, 2009 3:26 PM

Crescent Hill,

I did not intend to sounds condescending. I was simply trying to understand what is so great about Brooklyn that people would pay more money for substantially less space. Having lived in Brooklyn for many years -- and having thoroughly enjoyed it --, I get it. However, once you move further out and are away from the amenities, the convenience to Manhattan, and the culture, I just dont get why someone would stay UNLESS you were paying much less money to do so (i.e., I get moving to Bed Stuy as it is cheaper than other areas). But, why move so far out for $4.2 million? Like I said, you can get more for your money in Westchester, with the same commute/drive in the Manhattan. As for the preception that all Westchester has is a bunch of houses and golf courses, that could not be further from the truth. There are loads of great restaurants (granted not as many as in NYC), wonderful parks, beachs, etc...

Posted by: Splenda at September 17, 2009 3:28 PM

Excuse me Brenda from Flatbush....

"but Italian Presence still strong..." What's wrong with that? Reverse discrimination at its finest!!!!


Reason for not just going out of the burbs... BK orignal said it best Bay Ridge is a far cry from the burbs. I left PS 4 years ago with a choice of moving to Jersey or Bay Ridge. It was no contest. I have a subaway line 2 blocks from my house and can be at BAM or Coney Island within a 1/2 hour. From Jersey it would take me at least an hour by car and then I would have to worry about where to park it.

Funny thing is there is so much to do here in Bay Ridge that I find myself not going back to the old hood, PS, that much.

Posted by: italiana71 at September 17, 2009 3:33 PM

Splenda, this is a Brooklyn blog, we are not going to talk up the competition or try to be fair to the suburbs (they don't say nice things about us either). This house will sell to someone who loves Bay Ridge and who wants to live in the best section if it. I don't think folks from out of town will come here and fall in love, they are more likely to go to the burbs. Still and all four million is quite a price tag. But for the successful entreperneur who really does not want to budge from the neighborhood or who misses it terribly after those five ghastly years in Bahrain, this house may appeal, but for a million less.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at September 17, 2009 3:35 PM

Splenda, it shouldn't matter at this price, but real estate taxes are probably a quarter of what they would be in Westchester.

Posted by: denton at September 17, 2009 3:37 PM

And by the way Brenda my next door neighbors are black and love the neighborhood. So not everyone would have an issue.

Posted by: italiana71 at September 17, 2009 3:37 PM

Splenda,

Really? Away from the "culture?" I think you are likely to find way more "culture" in a diverse neighborhood like Bay Ridge, than you will in Brooklyn Heights or Park Slope. Definitely more "culture" in Bay Ridge than in Westchester.

If you're referring to "cultural events", like the theater, or the ballet or opera, it takes me 15 minutes more to get to Lincoln Center than it did when I was in Carroll Gardens. I definitely don't feel that I lack access to cultural events since I moved to Bay Ridge.

Again, it's a personal decision. For me, I wanted my children to be from an urban area instead of from an identityless town.

Posted by: bkoriginal at September 17, 2009 3:40 PM

How is anyone even "appraising" this house? How does anyone "know" it's a tear down? We know almost nothing about it, and few of us even know the area.

Posted by: Nomi at September 17, 2009 3:52 PM

Splenda- I see some aspects of your point and please know that I am not offended. This is a little difficult to explain but there are those who live in these large homes on this old road who rarely set foot in Manhattan. In fact some rarely leave Bay Ridge, they have had their groceries delivered via telephone , long before Fresh Direct or the internet existed. They gossip about their cleaning ladies and fill their lives with friends and family. The definable culture that you and I so desire may not be all too important to some of them. You see a "culture" is all around them. All is relative.

I think you were eluding to another poster about the Westchester comments , but dear friends of mine live in Bronxville, I happen to like parts of Westchester county very much. As well as the golf courses.

Posted by: Crescent Hill at September 17, 2009 4:01 PM

agree with you, Italiana71. Thought it was unnecessary and insulting to both groups.

Posted by: bxgrl at September 17, 2009 4:16 PM

" Like I said, you can get more for your money in Westchester, with the same commute/drive in the Manhattan."
somehow I don't think this is true...
BayRidge to manhattan with no traffic is probably 15 minutes thru battery tunnel and mileage-wise a fraction. And has 24 public transportation.

Posted by: Petebklyn at September 17, 2009 4:33 PM

thanks for the love, bxgrl.

Posted by: italiana71 at September 17, 2009 4:35 PM

These threads are just great for exposing the hypocrisy of alot of folks on this site. These are the folks who (at least publicly) will bend their knee at the altar of "diversity", yet love to look down their nose at various groups.

The funny thing to me is that they think they are cleverly hiding it with their pithy comments. Newsflash: it's as plain as day, and very instructive.

Posted by: benson at September 17, 2009 4:40 PM

I see it too Benson, but very mild today. Othertimes comments are pretty nasty if some interior is too decorated or even just mention of neighborhood of CG,gowanus canal, BRidge .

Posted by: Petebklyn at September 17, 2009 4:49 PM

Insulting to both groups... my spider sense started tingling. As someone who grew up in Southern Brooklyn YES Bay Ridge is an overpriced ethnic ghetto which for me is preferable to an overpriced racial ghetto (FLAT-BUSH !) but not as much fun as a cultural ghettos of prissy turkey-necked whites like Northern Brooklyn.

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at September 17, 2009 4:57 PM

Italiana71- buy me that house and I'll be forever grateful too :-)

Posted by: bxgrl at September 17, 2009 4:57 PM

Well now the true racism comes out. Thanks Joe. Glad you took the spotlight off my remark about the grape leaves and the Italian accent.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 5:01 PM

ah joe- equal opportunity offensiveness - we finally see true equality in this country.

Posted by: bxgrl at September 17, 2009 5:06 PM

am I prissy turkey-necked? what does that mean exactly?
maybe it is flattering.

Posted by: Petebklyn at September 17, 2009 5:10 PM

People need to update their ethno-geographical stereotypes. Bay Ridge was never really an Italian bastion like Bensonhurst was, and when I'm there now what strikes me most in that regard is the large Arab-American presence. Shore Road is spectacular, but a bit of a hike to the subway and Third Avenue.

Posted by: Sparafucile at September 17, 2009 5:12 PM

Pete, you don't live in Northern Brooklyn

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 5:19 PM

And I didn't take offense at Joe's remark about prissy tukey necked whites, I took more offense at the racial ghetto thing. My skin is apparently thicker than others.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 17, 2009 5:23 PM

What happens if you're prissy, ethnically biased with crow's feet and live in downtown brooklyn? Should you move?

Posted by: bxgrl at September 17, 2009 5:25 PM

Bxgirl and Italiana, no offense meant--just an observation based on the experience I shared with other off-planet (non-Ridge, non-Italian) parents during my daughter's year in Kindergarten at St. Ephrem's. It was a fine school, but we pulled out because the clannishness was pretty intense, and that was towards mere out-of-nabe whites and Asians. Not hatred; just, invisibility; we were different, and were kept at a benign distance. They seemed like nice, good people, but just not able to take outsiders into their cultural comfort zone. I got a lot of concerned looks when I'd tell the locals we were from Flatbush, and it became clear that my daughter wouldn't be getting many takers for sleepovers "over there." This would have been a consideration if we'd ever had the money to buy into that lovely area, and it seemed a reasonable observation to share in a balanced discussion of the neighborhood's pros and cons. Agree about a big influx of Middle Eastern folks, esp. along the commercial strips; several times we saw local white kids taunting the Muslim girls about their headscarves in the park on Ft. Ham Pkway. The Muslim girls gave as good as they got, feisty Brooklyners already.

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at September 17, 2009 11:42 PM

Brenda;

Greetings from Oslo, Norway.

The area in question is Shore Road and 75th Street. The parishes of Bay Ridge/Shore Road are St. Patrick's, St. Anselm's and OLA. As was mentioned above, none of these parishes were heavily Italian and indeed had more Irish. This can also be seen by the name of the local funeral parlors like Clavin.

St. Ephrem's is at the beginning of Dyker Heights. At one time, Dyker Heights was a heavily Italian area. The part of Dyker Heights near St. Ephrem's is now equally Chinese, as a simple walk down the commercial strip of 11th Ave will reveal.

Sorry to bring out these inconvenient facts, but hey, don't let that stop you from demonstrating your "cultural superiority" bonifides to the rest of the crowd.

Posted by: benson at September 18, 2009 2:54 AM

Oh Brenda;

One more thing that just dawned on me, given that I am in Norway.

I believe if you go up and down 4th Ave in Bay Ridge, you will see about 4 Lutheran churches, which cater to the Norwegian population in Bay Ridge. You do know, of course, that there is an annual Norwegian Day parade in Bay Ridge, don't you?

Since you are studying the area, you may want to acquaint yourself with the fact that Bay Ridge has a heavy Greek population, which can be seen in the number of Greek Orthodox churches and restaurants in the area. If I am not mistaken, Bay Ridge is second to Astoria in Greek population in NYC.

Once again, sorry for the inconvenient facts.

Posted by: benson at September 18, 2009 3:14 AM

I'm with Noklissa and Dave. The "waterfront" here is blighted by the perpetually-jammed Belt Parkway. Nevertheless, the water views are great. Staten Island looks green and lush from this distance and the ship traffic is always interesting. But its disingenuous to call it waterfront, and pretend for the advantages that go with that, when its actually just water views.

benson, white people are monolithic didntcha know.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 18, 2009 9:09 AM

Outboard of the parkway are separate bike and pedestrian paths that extend for four miles from the 69th Stret Pier to Bay Parkway (for a little stretch under the bridge they're not separated). In addition to walking, jogging, biking, and skating, people fish, sun, and do tai chi here. Inland of the parkway are ballfields and landscaping and playgrounds. The idea that construction of the Belt somehow blighted this waterfront is ridiculous. This is a magnificent public waterfront.

And for what it's worth, the section of the Belt west of the Verrazano is almost never jammed.

Posted by: Sparafucile at September 18, 2009 9:50 AM

The poor Norwegians are a bit of a remnant these days, Oslo...I think they have to import some from Lake Wobegon to march in that parade. There's at least one deli left, though. Yes, I'm familiar with all your demographic facts, met all those folks around there, I'm sure census data confirms the growing diversity; what I was reporting was my lived experience, in the schoolyard, coffee shops, park, church, and it was different than the comfort level with diversity in my own precinct--maybe my impressions were formed disproporationately by homeowners, among whom "old-timers" are still over-represented. As they say, for what it's worth. (Perhaps not much these days, which would be a cheering thought.) The folks at St. Ephrem's mostly referred to the environs as Bay Ridge, for what that's worth; my mom grew up in the parish and called it that, had never heard the term 'Dyker Heights.' That could provide fodder for another of the Evolving Nomenclature Debates.

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at September 18, 2009 9:50 AM

Brenda;

Never heard of Dyker Heights, eh?

Perhaps you should tell St. Ephrem's themselves. Apparently they haven't gotten your memo:

http://www.stephremparish.com/SaintEphremsHistory.asp

Once again, Brenda, please don't let the facts get in the way of your attempts to show your heightened level of cultural superiority and diversity "comfort level".

By the way, you are also full of sh8t when it comes to who the homeowners in the area are. As the area around St. Ephrem's is almost exclusively one and two family homes, the Chinese are also heavily represented amonst the homeowners.

Off to an early dinner in Oslo!

Posted by: benson at September 18, 2009 10:07 AM

"The idea that construction of the Belt somehow blighted this waterfront is ridiculous"

I presume thats tongue-in-cheek.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 18, 2009 10:08 AM

Not at all tongue in cheek. This public waterfront parkland was built as a component of the Belt Parkway project, and would not otherwise exist. The Belt didn't blight this waterfront, it created it. No doubt the tidal mud flats that were landfilled to create the roadway and parkland had environmental value, but in terms of human access to and use of the waterfront, this project was a big plus.

Posted by: Sparafucile at September 18, 2009 10:36 AM

Ok, well I'm sure Robert Moses would agree with you, but GMAP to the max and you'll see 75 ft wide strip of concrete of which 20ft is usable by the people who want to take advantage of the waterfront and the remainder is just a 5-lane cut through for traffic which is of no beauty or benefit to any but those driving on it. (Which includes me sometimes).

Your basing your view on how it came into being. But the expressway is still a blight on the waterfront, and you only have to consider for a second what the waterfront would be without the expressway to see how negatively it affects it.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 18, 2009 10:50 AM

"The idea that construction of the Belt somehow blighted this waterfront is ridiculous"

I presume thats tongue-in-cheek.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 18, 2009 10:08 AM

Thanks Dittoburg, I do too.
The land that the Belt Parkway and the Shore Road Promenade sit on is landfill. Trucked and Tugged in by the much despised Robert Moses and his wrecking crews in the late 1930' and early 1940's. The development of a three lane highway with an adjacent "man made" promenade and roadside forever changed the landcsape of the old Shore Road. Before the Belt Pkway- Shore Road was the original Promenade of Bay Ridge. When the automobile first became popular much of the road was paved and then widened at carefully chosen points to create the graceful curves that we still see today on it's length. One or two old dutch houses were sacrificed, even back then, to allow the road to become one of the most popular "motor car" destinations in all of the then newly formed 5 borough City of New York. As you may know Brooklyn was its own city until 1898 and it was after that merger that much of the road began to be updated and " modernized". The Bay water was much closer to the road and until the late 30's it was accessible at many points to the actual shore/beachline. Small piers/ some with ferry service dotted it's length and earlier large piling supported boathouses were on the road. All this may seem like ancient history now, however it is worthwhile to note. I have seen old photographs that are Pre-Belt Parkway and they support the fact that Automobile worshiping City planning forever changed the Old Shore Road.

Posted by: Crescent Hill at September 18, 2009 11:10 AM

Crescent Hill - have you ever been to the Alice Austen house on Staten Island. Its a beautiful old place with a peaceful large garden that spreads down to the water. Lovely views of the harbor, and you really get an incredible perspective on the huge size of the container ships as they slide in and out of the harbor there.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 18, 2009 11:16 AM

I have not , but I am familiar with the home, it's history and it's well preserved grounds thanks to some great info found on the website Forgotten NY. That SI property has an incredible view of the bay. From my vantage point/my home, I see many container vessels on a daily basis as they pass or are tugged into Upper NY Bay toward the ports of NJ in most cases. I face Anchor Bay, which is in upper NY bay. Many ships wait around at this spot, hence Anchor bay. In all honesty ditto, I don't even look at the cargo ships anymore, but appreciate the sight of a daytime sail boat or nightlighted cruiseship much more. Granted, some of those container ships are actually larger than the smaller cruise line vessels that use the waterway.

Posted by: Crescent Hill at September 18, 2009 11:37 AM

I think I'm a closet ship-spotter nerd. I really should buy a place with water views.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 18, 2009 11:44 AM

Crescent Hill;

I haven't had a chance to introduce myself before, but let me just say that your substantive posts are a welcome addition to Brownstoner.

On the issue of the Belt parkway/Shore Road: I am big Robert Moses fan, and think that - given the situation at the time - he did wonders for the city. Having said that, it is my belief that the best long-term improvement that could be made to Brooklyn is to suppress the Belt Parkway, and open up its beautiful waterfront again.

I think that Jamaica Bay, for instance, has enormous potential, if, once again, the Belt were to be supporessed. Well, we can dream, can't we?

BTW, I am jealous that you have harbor views. I currently live in a condo in Park Slope, but am giving serious consideration to moving to one on Shore Road.

Posted by: benson at September 18, 2009 11:54 AM

Benson, Thanks, I too share an admiration for Moses in a broad context, but do recognize how & why many long gone Brooklynites , including those in my own family despised him. Moses was a member of "Our Crowd" and his generation and class and has to be taken in that context. As he grew older he was easier to hate and his eccentricities only fueled these fires. As you may know , he never drove a car . Moses was truly a cursed figure in much of 1950's Brooklyn but in reality his eminent domain practices of that era were for the most part an abomination.

Posted by: Crescent Hill at September 18, 2009 12:17 PM

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