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September 2, 2009

Co-op of the Day: 56 Garden Place, #2

This attractive floor-through co-op at 56 Garden Place in Brooklyn Heights just hit the market asking $785,000. Despite the location and the fact that the apartment was recently renovated, this price would seem like a stretch for the small two-bedroom (especially given the $901 monthly maintenance) were it not for the large deck it boasts. Think the outdoor space makes the asking price achievable?
56 Garden Place, #2 [Brown Harris Stevens] GMAP P*Shark

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I think one of those bedrooms is too small to be a legal bedroom. There is no real kitchen to speak of. The deck is the best part of the whole apartment. This should be priced in the 500's.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at September 2, 2009 12:48 PM

What's the point of living in a lovely old brownstone if you take out all the charm of a brownstone? May as well go for new construction.

Posted by: bxgrl at September 2, 2009 12:49 PM

Wow- I didn't see how small the second bedroom was. charmless, and badly laid out.

Posted by: bxgrl at September 2, 2009 12:50 PM

It's a cute starter apartment. The deck is a great party space. But the asking price is not competitive. Agree that a stripped down house like this has limited appeal but the space is good for a single person or a brand-new couple. Once the baby comes, forget it. Baby stuff today eats up whole rooms of storage.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at September 2, 2009 12:57 PM

I would be very happy to put a child in that small bedroom. It may be illegal, but I doubt anyone is going to arrest me. I like the modern vibe, I love the window in the bathroom, I LOVE the deck. I love Garden Pl. I think someone will pony up high 600s for it. But who the hell knows anymore... btw there seems to be a missing foot in the bedrooms -- realtor probably didn't count the closet space, but I think they should. Unless it's 17 wide in the front? Not impossible.

Posted by: Ringo at September 2, 2009 1:00 PM

I think a legal BR in nyc is 80 sq. ft., a window and a closet, so this works. We had 2 kids with a 2nd BR sized 7x6, no closet. It's definitely do-able with a baby. They'll move when the 2nd kid starts walking.

Posted by: WTbound at September 2, 2009 1:03 PM

Because of the deck and great location, I can see how it could sell close to ask. It's not a crazy price for Brooklyn Heights. Yesterday's COTD wanted 700k for a smallish 2 br without a deck, in East Williamsburg. That was nuts.

Posted by: Maly at September 2, 2009 1:04 PM

It's not the kid, it's the kid stuff. I hate walking into an apartment and seeing the main living area used as kiddie storage. That's no way to live if you can afford better.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at September 2, 2009 1:06 PM

The interiors are GORGEOUS. And the location is great, too. Based on the size, however, the price is bordering on the delusional. A somewhat smaller 1 bedroom with similar private roof deck around the corner recently sold for $565,000, so I'm thinking this place is more in the low $600,000 range, unless it doesn't sell until next year, when it'll be more likely in the upper $500,000 range.

Posted by: kvnbklyn at September 2, 2009 1:07 PM

Oh my. Pure location you're paying for. And there's no such thing as a floor-through 2 BR in a run-of-the-mill brownstone like this. It's a 1 BR with no true kitchen and dining room. Deck valid 180 days out the year. I just can't get it out of my head that in '99, fragile but still better economic times, you got the whole damn brownstone for even the widget average. It's amazing that few see what I see on the horizon.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at September 2, 2009 1:07 PM

Deck + WBF + Garden pl = 700......i've often felt that apart from 2-3 streets, bklyn heights is way, way over rated rel to park slope-cobble hill-carroll gardens. i spend a lot of time between Dumbo and Red Hook....6 days a week bklyn heights is extremely congested..a lot of court traffic and employees and a zillion people who don't live in neighborhood or r free loaders(rent controlled, elderly u know who u r) HOWEVER GARDEN PL-SINEY-No heights fruit streets...these r 4 stars and deserve a premium..they're quiet streets that r real easy on the eye 12 months a yr..these streets aren't this week's flavor of the month...they aren't up and coming....these have been some of nicest streets in city for a 150 yrs...this apt is for a single person/couple..compare what's offered in 700's in manhattan vs Garden Pl....700's not a stretch

Posted by: bklyn14 at September 2, 2009 1:07 PM

illegal? maybe immoral, but definately not illegal.

this is nice and will sell within 10% of ask.

Posted by: antidope at September 2, 2009 1:08 PM

given the dimensions, this place only has about 600 sf. Even at 600k means $1000/sf. seems too much. as for the party deck, i'm sure your neighbors above loves the idea. i wouldn't be surprised if there're house rules limiting how many people you can have on the deck and at what times of the day.

Posted by: jasonliu at September 2, 2009 1:08 PM

I'm thoroughly disgusted by shit like this... SEVEN HUNDRED AND EIGHTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS... PLUS another nine hundred per month... for this place?

Why is "the market" even contemplating this property? The owner of this place should crash and burn. If this is the price point that is required (because of the absurd price they paid in the past), then they should be forced to go bankrupt. I'm not kidding.

Even the high 600s as someone suggests above is seriously retarded.

When will folks in this city figure it out? Why are people willing to even *entertain* these types of prices, never mind ponying up the cash (which, sadly, I'm sure will happen)

Posted by: tybur6 at September 2, 2009 1:09 PM

The deck is great, but this is a small apt. It's under 600 feet.

Posted by: Nomi at September 2, 2009 1:11 PM

"a zillion people who don't live in neighborhood or r free loaders(rent controlled, elderly u know who u r)"

Ok, bklyn14, I'll bite. You must be one of those euthanize all those over 50 types. There ain't much rent control in BH- rent stabilized maybe. YOu've got issues- I hope you fix them before you turn 50. Of course you probably don't consider yourself a freeloader.

Posted by: bxgrl at September 2, 2009 1:15 PM

bklyn14 makes good points about this particular street.

Posted by: Nomi at September 2, 2009 1:17 PM

Yeah, I doubt any of us would give up a rent stabilized apt out of principle . . . .

Posted by: Nomi at September 2, 2009 1:19 PM

Nomi- could we afford to? :-) (full disclosure- I don't have one, but did when I lived in BH.)

Posted by: bxgrl at September 2, 2009 1:22 PM

You know, Tybur, when millions of people want to live in a nice clean a
place with outdoor space, within 30 minutes of their workplace, it's very difficult to put a reasonable price on real estate. We could move to Texas or Michigan and buy 7 lovely Victorian houses for the price of this small apartment. And yet here we are.

Posted by: Maly at September 2, 2009 1:25 PM

bklyn14 wrote "6 days a week bklyn heights is extremely congested..a lot of court traffic and employees and a zillion people who don't live in neighborhood or r free loaders(rent controlled, elderly u know who u r) "

well clearly you don't know the heights that well - there are plenty of streets which are beautiful and quiet, not just two. even pierrepont, which can get some foot traffic bc of the promenade, is actually lovely and mostly quiet of traffic.

Posted by: promenade at September 2, 2009 1:30 PM

What the second bedroom lacks in girth is made up by its length.

Posted by: Yllebdael at September 2, 2009 1:34 PM

Maly -- But who decides how much you pay?!

It's a huge economic mess. Wages in NYC are way out of whack with most other places because of housing costs. Many business can't afford to pay these wages and can't set up shop here. Commercial real estate is similarly effed up and shops, businesses, light manufacturing, etc have to make enormous amounts of revenue just to pay their monthly rent.

So, folks that *should* be making $50k get paid $165k (if they're lucky) and then still can't afford to buy a small 1-1/2 bedroom apartment like this... so pressure is put on the businesses to raise wages, companies fold or leave the city, and housing prices just keep going up!

Because... and this is the rub... because the *buyer* side of the market equation is made up of RETARDS that has no problem spending 60% of their paycheck on a tiny little home.

Posted by: tybur6 at September 2, 2009 1:37 PM

here we go again...

stupid buyers, idiot buyers everywhere.

it's the only explanation for high real estate prices in new york.

last i checked these idiot buyers have been paying more of their paycheck into nyc homes for hundreds of years. renters too, btw.

what would we all do without the idiots?

do you really think a major financial crisis is sufficient to immediately improve our intelligence? if that's all it took, we should of gotten started earlier...

Posted by: antidope at September 2, 2009 1:44 PM

I have to agree that it is somewhat retarded to spend 785,000 on an apartment like this. It is very small and the building has no services. The best idea would be for the occupant directly above or below to buy this level and combine it. Then you would have something. Garden Place is kind of snooty. You either own a whole house or you don't if you catch my drift.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at September 2, 2009 1:46 PM

Lovely deck. Laughable price.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at September 2, 2009 1:49 PM

The answer is the marketplace sets the prices. In this instance Garden Place is one of the prettiest little corner in NYC, so even with the correction inflicted by the tightening of credit and rising unemployment (which let's face it, never affected coops in BH that much any way), this particular apartment is going to be bought by someone of more than average means.

Posted by: Maly at September 2, 2009 1:49 PM

Love the chairs in the living room. Kai Christiansen, I think.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at September 2, 2009 2:06 PM

Let me put this in my price-ometer 2000.

At peak, they would have asked 799 for this place and gotten 845.
Brooklyn Heights is 16.5% off peak (not bad) (of course I just made that up).
So 16.5 % off 845 is 706k.
706 is the selling price. I have spoken.

Posted by: Ringo at September 2, 2009 2:06 PM

"this particular apartment is going to be bought by someone of more than average means."
-It would have to be, wouldn't it?

I think it will be bought by someone already in the building. The price is probably just a negotiating tactic. Garden Place is lovely but so is most of Brooklyn Heights and you can find a real 2-bedroom, in an elevator buildings, with a separate kitchen and services for about this price or just a little more.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at September 2, 2009 2:10 PM

Nice take on businesses and wages, tybur6. Interesting perspective. Yes, the majority of buyers out there are somewhat retarded. They are too lazy or too busy to independently process information and think for themselves so they rely on the pumpers and dumpers for the temperature of the market.

Yes, dope. New Yorkers will always pay half their income on housing. But incomes are dropping to $400/wk. 3 X annual affords you only a $57.6K mortgage or $800/mo rent. The market is going to get decimated! A financial crisis (really a correction) like this one might not immediately improve "our" intelligence but it most certainly doesn't improve our incomes neither.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at September 2, 2009 2:16 PM

"New Yorkers will always pay half their income on housing."

not so sure about that. it very much depends whether certain industries remain in NYC. Also people cannot afford paying half income to housing as there will be no social security, medicare, etc down the road. Gov spending means we have to pay more later. In short people need to SAVE MORE and spend less in housing.

Posted by: bklplebe at September 2, 2009 2:33 PM

BHO, you great big ninny! Tybur6's comment is not "interesting", it happens to be your very own point of view. The real estate prices are declining, and there is downward pressure, but your assumptions are laughable.

Posted by: Maly at September 2, 2009 2:35 PM

This is a jewel box of an apartment that will appeal more to singles or childless couples, maybe as a pied a terre. A 400 sf terrace in prime BH has got to be worth a fair amount. 700k doesn't seem out of line, so 10 pct. off ask.

Posted by: Bolder at September 2, 2009 2:48 PM

Ninny --heehee.

Posted by: Nomi at September 2, 2009 3:02 PM

Yes, obviously works better for person or couple with no child, where second bedroom can be used for other things. Terrace very appealing. Still feels too high to me, more than 10% too high.

Posted by: Nomi at September 2, 2009 3:04 PM

I like Ringo price-o-meter. My very own little price sausage factory gives me this estimate: perfect location and newly renovated in BH: $900 psf * 550 square feet= $500,000, plus perfectly usable outdoor space with great light, accessible through living room $900 * 50% * 400 square feet= $180,000, for a total of $730,000.

Posted by: Maly at September 2, 2009 3:18 PM

Gee I can't add my own numbers! I meant $680,000

Posted by: Maly at September 2, 2009 3:38 PM

This is an outstanding location and floor-through. If one does not mind walking up the short stoop and one flight, I think this would be a perfect apartment for a childless couple (or one that is deciding to downsize after the kids go to college.) Especially if they get the price down to 700K.

Although it is true that a "true" 2BR in an elevator building can be found for a little more that this place, you can't find one with this deck _AND_ with a washer/dryer in the unit. That's huge IMO. And I don't know if you can find a nicely serviced building for under $1,000/month in maintenance. (But yes the high maintenance is puzzling.)

What I can't figure out are the measurements on the floor plan. The rooms add up to 17 feet wide, but the city records show the lot width as 19' 8". Are these extra thick exterior walls?

Also, what's up with the picture of the room with the sectional couch? Are the current owners sleeping in the small room and using the larger BR as a lounge?

(As for the snootiness, this is at the end of the block so the day-today interactions with such persons can be limited if so desired.)

Posted by: Boerumresident at September 2, 2009 3:45 PM

Price to rent ratio is still extremely high. Rents are falling in the immediate neighborhood, and I don't think you'd get 3500 for this (and couldn't keep it rented at that price).

Also, NYS taxes for the rich are going way way up as are property and water taxes -> less money to spend on RE

Posted by: thwackamole1 at September 2, 2009 4:27 PM

anoMaly - my assumptions (including the older ones about things like...ah...umm...a recession, a drop in rents, DJIA falling to 8,000) are laughable today but confirmed tomorrow.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at September 2, 2009 4:54 PM

"water taxes"

For what? Water is free for the underwater.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at September 2, 2009 4:57 PM

Fine, it's a deal. I will be happy to buy you a beer (I bet it won't cost me more than a buck then) when the average HHI gets to $400 a week.

Posted by: Maly at September 2, 2009 5:14 PM

BHO usually annoys me but that was a funny joke.

Re: Water & Property Taxes: water on a FULL townhouse is maybe $1,000 a year and R/E taxes are ~$3,000. Those two going up are not influencing any buying decisions at these price points.

Income Tax is another story … good thing Albany is paralyzed by incompetence (for now).

Posted by: Mr Joist at September 2, 2009 5:28 PM

Tiny. Expensive.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at September 2, 2009 5:57 PM

Stuff in Williamsburg is trying to sell for close to this without the deck, so it seems reasonable to me. It's location, location. If this price falls, then so should three-quarters of the two-bedrooms currently on the market.

Posted by: Heather at September 2, 2009 6:22 PM

You do get my joke about $400/wk, anoMaly, right? Unemployment checks...ha ha ha hee hee hee! I was there several years ago - company went under. Is that what the state still pays, $400/wk?

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at September 2, 2009 9:25 PM

With 20% down you're still talking around $4,000 a month. If you can afford that is this really exactly where you want to be? For $901 what do you get other that a walk up sandwiched between upstairs and downstairs neighbors without any real sound/vibration isolation?

Posted by: FloatingWorld at September 3, 2009 2:56 PM

« Brooklyn Food & Drink Round-Up House of the Day: 168 Midwood Street Revisited »

September 2, 2009

Co-op of the Day: 56 Garden Place, #2

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