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August 28, 2009

Prices Cut on Most Remaining One Hanson Units

one%20hanson%20price%20cuts%20082009.jpg
Not exactly a closeout sale, but almost: A couple days ago, the asking prices were dropped on nearly all of One Hanson's unsold units listed on StreetEasy. The scope of the cuts? One of the biggest was a 23 percent price reduction on a 1,500-sf, 2-bed, which went from $1,222,431 to $945,000. There were also a bunch of decently sized reductions on smaller, less-pricey units, like this 1,000-sf 2-bed, which went from $838,000 to $675,000. Although there have been minor cuts on askings in the building in the past, this is the first time most units have seen double-digit reductions.
One Hanson Place Listings [StreetEasy] GMAP
One Hanson Remainders Go Rental [Brownstoner]

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Comments

What is to be said about apartments in which the bathrooms are bigger than the kitchens (which are not even "rooms" in any sense but simply a wall in the living rooms. And a $1MM apartment with a bedroom that is only 11x14? Please.

Posted by: BH76 at August 28, 2009 11:00 AM

Good! Much better to have occupied buildings than white elephants gathering dust bunnies. I hpe they all start reducing their bubblicious listings to reality. I for one am tired of the hand wringings and MAB talk. Let the developers find their bottoms and move to meet the market.

Posted by: Maly at August 28, 2009 11:01 AM

I assume these are just listings from the developers. But I also assume there are additional resale listings from owners there who thought RE only went up, unemployment only went down and common charges stayed constant.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 28, 2009 11:13 AM

I see double the listings above on stribling.com, none in contract. Another with Brooklyn Heights Real Estate. Inventory can run but it can't hide.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 28, 2009 11:42 AM

Gabby:

It's One HANSON.

Not Hason.

Posted by: 11217 at August 28, 2009 11:46 AM

Some of the price cuts are bigger than 23% if you base it on the original asking prices. Unit 10D for instance was listed $738,000 in February, reduced to $675,000 in July and now to $550,000. That's a 25% reduction since February. That's $790/sf to $588/sf.

Posted by: kvnbklyn at August 28, 2009 11:52 AM

The price cuts do not even reflect a ding or a scratch -- wouldn't pay more than $270 p/sqf.

Posted by: NoRecoveryForYou at August 28, 2009 12:03 PM

$270 per sqf??? Do you expect them to go that low or is it wishful thinking?

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at August 28, 2009 12:05 PM

Whoops. Thanks for pointing that out, 11217.

Posted by: gabby_w at August 28, 2009 12:05 PM

wow i did not realize this building was on that list of troubled buildings. The bears have rushed the gates and Rome has fallen. You guys still bullish?

Posted by: brickoven at August 28, 2009 12:09 PM

I still don't get how people can have a straight face while mentioning the word "Recovery." Sure, for anyone who bought at the top of the bubble, it may take 10-30 years for them to break even. Eventually we'll see inflation and it will hardly seem like breaking even anymore. At the height of the dot-com bubble Microsoft stock was at almost $60, does that mean it won't "recover" until it gets back there just because someone may have purchased at that price? The *peak* was an aberration, and getting back to sensible valuations *is* the recovery.

$270 p/sqf is not only fair, but generous.

Posted by: NoRecoveryForYou at August 28, 2009 12:09 PM

$270 square foot would take you back to 1999 prices. Possible but unlikely given that rents haven't been stagnant since 1999.

Posted by: DeLepp at August 28, 2009 12:14 PM

was the rumors of Opara buying the penthouse units confirmed or just the usual bs rumors developers float to generate attention?

Posted by: more4less at August 28, 2009 12:14 PM

300 psf sounds about right

Posted by: brickoven at August 28, 2009 12:17 PM

> $270 p/sqf is not only fair, but generous.

Generous? I think the word you are looking for is "delusional."

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 28, 2009 12:17 PM

Apartment investors are going to get hit hard: Increasing vacancy (folks double up, move in with parents, etc.), falling rents, rising expenses, significantly more bankruptcies and tenant defaults (and thus more damage), more late payments and other management headaches, rising cap rates, falling values. Within a year or two, buyers will want 30-40% discounts from peak values (or more).

Posted by: NoRecoveryForYou at August 28, 2009 12:18 PM

Ditmas give it a couple of years and the delusional part will be how anybody ever paid 800 psf,

Posted by: brickoven at August 28, 2009 12:21 PM

> 30-40% discounts from peak values

And that still puts 1 Hanson in the 500-600/psf range. Your "generous" offer is more like 65-75% off peak.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 28, 2009 12:24 PM

I don't know a lot about real estate and prices, but I do think that
1. BO is right that eventually we may see the definition of delusional as anyone who ever paid 800 psf

2. Snark is right that these will not go down to 270 psf. 270 psf just sounds like crack smoking. But what the hell do I know.

**Bring Back Robert on Fridays**

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at August 28, 2009 12:27 PM

$270 is fair and generous based on sqf; $300 when perks are involved. Again, the *peak* was an aberration, and getting back to sensible valuations *is* the recovery.

Posted by: NoRecoveryForYou at August 28, 2009 12:29 PM

"Within a year or two, buyers will want 30-40% discounts from peak values (or more)."

And right now you and BHO want 50% or more off. But I don't see that happening either.

I'm gonna stop commenting on this now. I admit I have no expertise in this arena.

**Bring Back Robert on Fridays**

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at August 28, 2009 12:29 PM

A quick look at new listings on Corcoran shows most at $1000+ square foot. The ones that are not are in brooklyn or have sky high charges. Is brooklyn reacting faster to the marketplace or is it now 50% cheaper than manhattan?

Posted by: DeLepp at August 28, 2009 12:34 PM

There's probably already a lot of underwater "owners" in this building or soon to be. Unit 9D sold for $661,958 in 2008 according to property shark (and probably entered contract in 2006 along with many of the other units in this building). Unit 10D (with the same square feet and presumably the same layout but with slightly better views since it's higher) is for sale at $550,000 which is 17% below what the owner of 9D paid last year. That's pretty close to wiping out all equity assuming 9D put 20% down. Hopefully for them they don't find themselves needing to sell anytime soon.

Posted by: kvnbklyn at August 28, 2009 12:49 PM

DeLepp this building is priced about the same as the financial district. Thats the problem, and on top of that there is a whole lot of supply coming to this area at a time when the city continues t lose high paying jobs. There is no end in sight to the job losses in NYC

Posted by: brickoven at August 28, 2009 12:49 PM

DitmasSnark: "Your "generous" offer is more like 65-75% off peak."

My mistake -- I meant "[RENTERS] will want 30-40% discounts from peak values (or more)." in response to DeLepp's post.

As it stands now, home valuations and rents are unsustainable; I have zero pity for anyone who bought a home during the real estate Niagara of this decade. The following years will be a wake up call to all those who were financially irresponsible.

Posted by: NoRecoveryForYou at August 28, 2009 12:51 PM

don't know if & when the 300 or below psf comes but I know for sure I would be buying at those levels. we might even have some bidding wars at those levels.

Posted by: more4less at August 28, 2009 12:57 PM

Rents have historically been unsustainable in NYC, primarily due to rent control, I don't see that changing all that much.

Posted by: DeLepp at August 28, 2009 12:57 PM

"NoRecoverForYou" - I love that handle! Team Bear multiplies everyday. Our doors are wide open. Come along everybody. Let's bring these Ponzi-prices down!

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 28, 2009 12:58 PM

Actual sales in Manhattan are down about 25% from peak, and vary between $600 and $1,500 ppsf depending on condition, location and tax/maintenance charges. Brooklyn is about 25-30% below that, also depending on the same factors.
I think new condos, because of the risks involved, should be at the lower end. 1 Hanson is on Flatbush (negative) with high monthly charges (negative), but it's next to transportation (positive) and has lovely views and light (positive.)
I personally believe they could sell their units if they get in front of the market (ie below other comparable recent sales.

Posted by: Maly at August 28, 2009 12:59 PM

"they could sell their units if they get in front of the market (ie below other comparable recent sales"

Asking wars!

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 28, 2009 1:05 PM

Team Bear multiplies everyday :)

"they could sell their units if they get in front of the market" like a deer in headlights. Once we have sensible valuations and people can choose whether to buy or rent at affordable prices, our local economy will get a boost. Homeowners/Renters wont be choking on outrageous mortgage/rent payments for the rest of their lives and will have money to save/invest and spend, not just on the basics, but also discretionary items.

Posted by: NoRecoveryForYou at August 28, 2009 1:17 PM

in my mind, this building was always way overpriced, and the current psf price is just OK.

i don't think comparing this to the financial district is totally accurate, but plausible.

there are apt investments that were made in the past couple of years that were smarter for all the usual reasons - location, psf pricing, potential for growth, schools, size of apt (family sized apts always do better) whatever. many are not underwater for also.

additionally, there are income levels that benefit from owning in any economy because not everybody is suffering financially. and, of course, the future is not a done deal. if you buy and hold, the current downturn may not even matter.

Posted by: wine lover at August 28, 2009 1:23 PM

when i went to see the one hanson units the other thing that really struck me was how small they seemed compared to the stated sqft. i don't know if this is because they built them with bathrooms the size of studio apartments or because they measured to the outside of very thick walls. but, for example, that 722sqft unit felt like 550-600sqft to me, max. was this just me?

i did like the building though - and the location seemed like a fair trade btw not particularly nice immediate area and great access to other nice areas. so, these units selling cheap will certainly raise the competition for other units in bk.

Posted by: perhaps at August 28, 2009 1:47 PM

perhaps, all condos are like that. the sq ft includes from portion of common space in hallway plus they measure from outer boundary of your walls vs. the livable interior space. Diff is some condo appears to bs more on the sq ft than others but none every measures per interior living space

Posted by: more4less at August 28, 2009 1:56 PM

I like the building and the apartment but it is listed as one of the trouble condo. That means they are in financial distress and may go bankrupt. So in future, there is risk that there is no doorman, no body doing the maintenance, etc.

Posted by: seahawk at August 28, 2009 2:00 PM

I do not consider myself a bear, and I think your little tag is aspirational rather than reasonable. The prices are not going to go down to a magic number where YOU can comfortably afford it. New York has never worked like that; big cities are competitive environments where finding decent shelter is a bit of a blood sport. I'm on Team Reason, neither a bull nor a bear. I look at what's available, what's comparable, what I personally value (space, location, views, finishes? Pick your poison), what I can afford, and then decide what my best bet is.
I am tired of people who pretend to be prophets and seers.

Posted by: Maly at August 28, 2009 2:06 PM

I am just trying to tell people there are risks buying those condos. I am not a lawyer and I am not sure the consequences of buying condo when the sponsor has gone bankrupt.

I am not trying to tell people not to buy condos now since the price is going to continue to go down.

Posted by: seahawk at August 28, 2009 2:22 PM

I thought the units were reasonably sized. The main issue is that the large columns on the outer walls impinge on the space somewhat and make furnitur positioning more difficult. I loved the feel of the building.

Posted by: etson at August 28, 2009 2:22 PM

"there are apt investments that were made in the past couple of years that were smarter for all the usual reasons - location, psf pricing, potential for growth, schools, size of apt (family sized apts always do better) whatever."

You don't understand. All of that was already factored in before liar loans. Park Slope was already more expensive than Fort Greene. A 3BR/2BA was already more expensive than a 2BR/2BA. Everything tripled in value (+200%) and will fall by a roughly common percentage. Nowhere is immune.

"the future is not a done deal. if you buy and hold, the current downturn may not even matter"

Now why you gotta go and say something like that? Now everybody has to be bored with my repeated take on the concept of 'holding on'...

The likelihood is a done deal. This is a once-in-a-lifetime boom/bust. The credit/housing giveaway was unprecedented in modern American history. You will not see 2009 prices again in 2009 dollars. Nominally, yes, but a loaf of bread will then be $100.

Do they make non-alcholic wine?

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 28, 2009 2:23 PM

maly-

that is quite a reasonable world view.

prepare to be mauled!

Posted by: antidope at August 28, 2009 2:23 PM

Ha! Story of my life.

Posted by: Maly at August 28, 2009 2:30 PM

For what it's worth, these are my favorite condos in all of Brooklyn. The historic landmark, the convenient location, the lofty spaces, the views, the quality of construction and those killa dilla kitchen/bar/livingroom layouts. But one thing is missing: a viable parking option. Parking under Pathmark is your best bet but you don't have the security (see 'P2'?) and convenience of valet. If things get rough, you could get 'got' down there. When Toren gets built and available for viewing, it might take the cake. Oro just doesn't do it for me although their units tend to be spacious.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 28, 2009 2:35 PM

"New York has never worked like that"

And prices never tripled over the course of a decade. At least in the timeframe you're using. Half off is reasonable. I'm in the middle class - affordable to me is the same as reasonable. Nothing you say will prevent this inevitable price collapse. Premier condo distressed. It's over!

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 28, 2009 2:41 PM

"I have zero pity for anyone who bought a home during the real estate Niagara of this decade. The following years will be a wake up call to all those who were financially irresponsible."

What is your problem? I am a person who bought not at the top of the market but pretty close. But I bought what I could afford based on what was available at the time. I told the truth on my mortgage applications, I pay my mortgage on time and I did not overextend myself. Although admittedly I could probably buy something nicer now then I could then how could one have know that? Really, how you can stand there all glorified with your 20/20 HINDSIGHT knowledge because you didn't buy? It's one thing to argue the merits of the market as it is now, now that the financial collapse has happened and some transparency is now known about all the trickery going on behind closed doors which caused the inflated prices. Don't think the market has seen the bottom? Fine, understandable, but don't insult everyone who was trying to gain a leg up in the real estate world before it was obvious what a joke "deregulated banking" is.

Posted by: Tdeezy at August 28, 2009 2:51 PM

tdeezy-

that is quite a reasonable world view.

prepare to be mauled!

Posted by: antidope at August 28, 2009 2:56 PM

"I am tired of people who pretend to be prophets and seers."

Post of the freaking decade!

Posted by: heck_of_a_job_brownie at August 28, 2009 2:57 PM

I agree, Maly hits the nail on the head with that one.

Posted by: Tdeezy at August 28, 2009 3:04 PM

BHO: I loved this one: "Do they make non-alcholic wine?"

Maly: "New York has never worked like that..." confine that to Manhattan...I've lived through the 80's bust when people just walked away from their homes. Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, SI have been home to middle class for decades -- the price jump from 2003 to the peak to now is simply unsustainable for the middle class in these four of five boros. Where do you suggest that the middle class live?

"The prices are not going to go down to a magic number where YOU can comfortably afford it." They will, and if you think otherwise, please share your theory of an economy that can sustain not only the prices of today, but of the peak too?

I've been arguing this since 2004; I'm neither a prophet or seer or anything else of the nature -- this is just common sense.

"Tdeezy" I understand your situation; before I buy or invest in anything significant, I ALWAYS do research, and lots of it. I've been doing my research on this for over five years while still living in a studio co-op waiting for things to finally cool-off. My parents did very well when rental buildings went co-op and the price of owning a home [in this, co-ops] was fair and matched income ratios of the middle class, so people could enjoy life whilst owning a home without worrying about a mountain of debt on their heads from insanely overpriced brick and mortar -- oh, and the silly "chef's kitchen" non-sense like "SS appliances" and "granite" counter tops. I'm not complaining, just responding to the insanity that has become the norm.

Posted by: NoRecoveryForYou at August 28, 2009 3:18 PM

NoSoupForYou-
welcome to the stoner world.
did bho pick you up and bring you home last night?
and introduce you to the board this morning?
your heroic voice will find a nice harmony here with all your fellow princess of pessimism. by the end of the day you'll all be able to confirm the brilliance of your intelligence.

Posted by: antidope at August 28, 2009 3:51 PM

So what's the local elementary? PS 38? Or something? How is that?

Posted by: Heather at August 28, 2009 4:39 PM

LOL, prodope. Rehab is for quitters.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 28, 2009 4:46 PM

I love this building. I am saving up to buy a two bedroom. Some units seem very small, but others are quite generous in size. I have been waiting for them to lower prices, and hopefully I'll sign a contract on Sunday for a two bedroom facing Manhattan. The Views are amazing.

Posted by: shrinky at August 28, 2009 8:50 PM

There's no rational explantation for NYC housing prices compared to market rents.

We're likely in for another 50% drop.

There's no correlation between prices and rents -- none.

The bubble will take a couple years to deflate. Folks don't like to lose money, but eventually they'll have no choice -- they'll have to sell.

Posted by: IronBalls at August 30, 2009 8:35 PM