Open Thread

bxgrl,
you, didn't think I would let you have the last word, did you? te he he.
here's my response to your late night post.

and a good morning to all.

bxgrl,

Once again allow me to point out the facts as I have used them to systematically counter your original assertion that the Republicans stand for racism, violence and naziism. You already agree that the Republicans were THE civil rights party up until the 1960's, so let's move on to more recent events

-first off, those swastika banners you have heard about on your liberal blogs, that showed up at town hall meetings. Turns out that those banners were being carried by Lyndon Larouche supporters (Larouche is a well known left wing outsider who has repeatedly sought the Democratic party presidential nomination.
-next, about Nixon's southern strategy. This is his "notorious" southern strategy as stated by Patrick Buchanan his speech writer at the time;
"...we would build our Republican Party on a foundation of states rights, human rights, small government and a strong national defense, and leave it to the party of Maddox, Mahoney and Wallace to squeeze the last ounces of political juice out of the rotting fruit of racial injustice."

hardly a racial strategy of division, wouldn't you say?

-Nixon (who was a Quaker) voted for the civil rights act of 1957. JFK voted against Eisenhower's (R) civil rights act of 1957.
-Nixon raised civil rights enforcement budget 800 percent.doubled the budget for black colleges, appointed more blacks to federal posts than any president before, adopted the Philadephia Plan mandating quotas for blacks in unions and ffor black scholars in colleges and universities, increased small business loans to minorities 1,000 percent, rased the share of Southern schools that were desegregated from 10% to 70% during his presidency.

hardly the acts of a racist, wouldn't you say?

whan I say you are reaching too far back by naming George Lincoln Rockwell as some kind of representative of Republicans is clearly true. I named Lincoln as a starting point for Republicans for he was the first Republican president and the greatest of all presidents. George Lincoln Rockwell is an obscure right wing figure who died in the 1960's and is of little consequence in serious political discussion. Shall I name the left wing nut jobs through history beginning with John Wilkes Booth who was a disgruntled southern democrat? Or how about Squeeky Fromme who might just get out of prison now and was a leftest follower of Charles Manson who tried to assassinate President Ford? or how about Lee Harvey Oswald, a member of the communist party, he actually went down in history as a leftist by killing JFK.

Let's leave the fringe just that, and get to the meat of the matter. Again, your assertion that we Republicans are a bunch of racists, violence prone extremists.

You go on to make a generalization that the Republicans must be out of touch since their membership amongst minorities is disproportionately low. I see this more as indicator of the success of Democratic pandering than anything else. Even still, 10% of 300 million would come out to 9 million Republican/Conservative leaning minorities. (estimating that Republicans only get 10% of the minority vote on any given election, and that's only a conservative estimate, in 1972 Nixon got 20% of the black vote).

you seem to equate a white majority as something bad, I don't and I'm not even white. It is what it is, we live in this experiment called the United States and take the chips as they fall. yet throughout our history, minorities have risen to the top of society and prospered in this great nation. I don't see the opportunities given to all people who come here as a bad thing, with great opportunity goes great reward and at times great risk. This is life. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Posted by: Legion at August 13, 2009 10:45 AM

Montrose Morris,
the same goes for you,

your post demanded a response in kind.

montrose morris,
How can I take you seriously when you start your argument by saying that I am drinking some sort of Kool-aid? I mean I like to have a fruit punch once in a while but your implication that I am amongst the likes of Jim Jones followers is clearly disproven by my previous posts.

like I told bxgrl, you also seem to equate a white majority as something necessarily bad, I do not. It is the historical legacy of this nation and may change in the future according to demographic projections. I take things at face value, my experience in the Republican party is as I have stated, one of inclusion and shared beliefs in conservative values.
Bxgrl's derisive comments against Clarence Thomas for instance could rightfully be labeled racist in themselves, in that she (as a white woman) seeks to define his views and his experience through the eyes of other people of color (which she is not). In other words she not only presumes to speak for other black people in condemning him and his views for not being liberal but also defining how he should be voting on the Supreme Court and implying that this man who has strong religious convictions and arose from poverty and the historical legacy of racism, should somehow be beholden to a white liberal establishment. Bxgrl reduces this accomplished individual of color to nothing but a puppet on a string, why? Because he is a conservative Christian who follows his beliefs, of course.
montrose, your implication that I am somehow preaching down to the minorities in my own community is again, presumptous. I have stated that I continue to work in Health Physican Shortage Areas of NYC. As I have all my career. I have never abandoned my community but have always sought to continue aiding those in need. And I have done plenty of that over the years both in time and money. Futhermore, I strongly believe that the single best thing one can do for one's community is to set a positive example and continue that example with one's family as I continue to do.

But this isn't about me, It is about resetting the background and default idea amongst many that because a person has conservative views they must automatically be wacked out.

Now, I'll take my orange kool-aid with ice.

Posted by: Legion at August 13, 2009 10:49 AM

slopefarm,
funny how you accuse me of being oversimplistic in my evaluation of history.
I'm not the one who automatically assigns Republicans as the party of racists, violence and nazis, as bxgrl did.

I responded to her with historical fact. You choose to pick up at the 1940's and 1950's. I will again tell you the facts of the matter. In the 1950's Truman desegragated the military but only because a General named Eisenhower forced the issue. Southern democrats were clearly opposed to any civil rights advancements by minorities, these were the so-called dixiecrats. Governor Maddox of Georgia, a democrat who banned minorities from his restaurants, Governor Wallace who stood at the school door to block integration when Eisenhower had to send in the national guard to enforce it. Bull Conner, another democrat who chose to fight civil rights with vicious dogs and firehoses in those images we all know about the civil rights struggle.
These people were not Republicans. That is the point.
I also pointed out how Nixon voted FOR the civil rights act of 1957 under Eisenhower, JFK voted AGAINST it. This is history not some made up froth.

Who is being oversimplistic here now?

My contention was and continues to be that generalizations about the Republicans should be tempered by an informed view of the historical fact of the matter. Clearly there is enough blame to go around on both sides.
What does it benefit our country or ourselves to start the debate with the notion that one side is morally bankrupt?

By the way Lyndon Larouche sought the presidential party nomination of the Democratic Party. not the Republican party.

P.S. montrose morris,
I am sad to hear of bxgrl's familial situation.
My best wishes go out to her.
Our spirited debates are not meant to offend but to
exchange ideas.

Posted by: Legion at August 13, 2009 12:02 PM

slopefarm,

Allow me to address your confusion.

You state "no one can figure out" why I am posting on the OT board regarding healthcare.

It's not hard, really,
A lie left unchallenged soon becomes truth. Our media has done an abyssmal job of informing the electorate about the healthcare issues.
I don't like it. We are given the right to vote, some choose to throw it away. some remain ignorant on the issues and allow politicians to make the decisions for them.
People on this chat site seem to be well informed, so I ventured to post informed ideas on the debate. That's what people tend to do in chat rooms.
I don't agree that people don't change their views. Some don't, that's for sure.
But some do. Some have even posted that they are on the fence about the debate.
Let the truth out, from whatever perspective you may perceive it and let the people decide.

If it seems like too much of an effort to debate the issues, where ever it may be, perhaps we are destined for a government we deserve.

Posted by: Legion at August 13, 2009 1:15 PM

slopefarm,

Don't sound so offended.

Really, I can talk about brownstones as well as the next guy. This happened to be topical. And now you go off sounding all imperial about what needs to be discussed here in the chatroom.
I've posted here on all types of issues from rent stabilization to architectural theory.
Perhaps that's the reason for my retorts, I get a kick out of needling people who think they know it all, then resort to unsupported assertions and name calling.

It seems to me that you are the one with the temperment problem, you come across as being a member of an exclusive club that would snort at an opposing view while perusing your sacred NYTimes.

You don't like the facts, face it.

and don't even try to pawn off Lyndon Larouche on the Conservatives,

he has been associated at one time or another with the following;

Marxists
Socialist Worker's Party
Trotskyists
Maoists

and has sought the democratic presidential nomination on at least 5 occasions.

Doesn't sound like a Republican to me.

His followers also appear to label everyone a nazi by the way.

Posted by: Legion at August 13, 2009 2:06 PM

slopefarm,
here's your quote,

"...you dont' help yourself by posting questionable facts and then going guns ablaze at anyone who calls you on it."

"...I can't see anything in your posts that suggest you are capable of reflective dialogue."

Now I ask you, who is escalating things. Your words clearly show an antagonism to my earnest discussion of the subject. You state that my facts are questionable, when they are easily verifible. You say I am incapable of reflective dialogue when I have been entirely cordial and have never resorted to expletives or name-calling.
You stated that Larouche was clearly on the far right. When his entire history is one of a far leftist.

It's all good though.

Maybe we'll have a beer summit in Fort Greene and work it all out.

Posted by: Legion at August 13, 2009 2:43 PM