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August 21, 2009

Immigrant Groups Fight Sunset Park Rezoning

Rezoning seems to be the issue du jour here in Brooklyn. First, Carroll Gardeners raise their hackles over the planned R6A designation for some streets, and now the blog Best View in Brooklyn points out that a coalition of residents, churches, and a community organization in Sunset Park have filed a lawsuit challenging the city's rezoning plan of 128 blocks in their neighborhood. According to the press release published on Legal Services NYC's website, "They claim that the rezoning plan will encourage more luxury development and large chain stores, resulting in widespread residential and commercial displacement and gentrification among Sunset Park's low-income Asian and Latino communities." Any readers care to weigh in?
Press Conference Announces Lawsuit about Rezoning [BVIB]
Immigrant Groups File Lawsuit [Legal Services]
Photo by Sonja Shield/Legal Services NYC

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Um, the rezoning (OK, let's say any "contextual rezoning") is going to "encourage more luxury development and large chain stores, resulting in widespread residential and commercial displacement and gentrification among Sunset Park's low-income Asian and Latino communities."

WTF? What's the basis for the claim? And what the heck is a rezoning going either promote or stop gentrification in a city where, unfortunately, the cost of living seems to historically increase?

I think someone's been spiking the koolaid in Sunset Park.

Posted by: Action Jackson at August 21, 2009 10:29 AM

Mr. B;

I think they are fighting for more Fedder's housing, less "contextual" luxury condo's. What sayeth thou?

Posted by: benson at August 21, 2009 10:39 AM

I suspect it's going to be quite awhile before developers go buying up Sunset Park for new condominiums, a Nets stadium or a Whole Foods.

This may be much ado about nothing.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 21, 2009 10:42 AM

this might be a little, eh to say, but something irks me when immigrants complain. it's one thing to complain about basic civil and human rights, but not about stuff like this.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 21, 2009 10:47 AM

Good one for the What - "Reverse" discrimination at its best.

What would happen if the roles were reversed and people were suing to keep immigrants and minorites out of their neighborhood...

Posted by: newsouthsloper at August 21, 2009 10:51 AM

The protest signs make me nostaligic for Hong Kong, where I (as a kind of immigrant) routinely go out and protest Atlantic yards-type "development" projects that raze traditional neighborhoods.

And thanks to the photo, now I know how to write "Sunset Park" in Chinese! It's 日落公園. Literally: Sun/Go Down/Public/Park

Posted by: WonTon at August 21, 2009 10:59 AM

We will never have housing affordability in this city until we add more housing units.

Posted by: GWH at August 21, 2009 11:00 AM

Heh. I just noticed the slogan on another Chinese placard. It translates "Luxury condo development" as "gwai fong fa".

That literally means "Distinguished (expensive) Rooms Development"

Posted by: WonTon at August 21, 2009 11:03 AM

GWH, go to the nyc gov website. you will be SHOCKED just how many affordable housing units have been built in the last few years, are currently under construction, and planned to be constructed. the thing tho is that unfortunately most of them are in pretty crappy areas and very inconvenient. but they are definitely out there.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 21, 2009 11:07 AM

"Good one for the What - "Reverse" discrimination at its best."

I'll bite! This is about retarded Condo development, not a Race/Class issue!

Never in the history of this city were whole neighborhood is/has come under attack from the moneyed interest (Gentrification). Whole neighborhoods are rip asunder at the expense of long time New Yorkers. What's going to happen when all of the developments blow up??!! empty decaying abandoned Condos bringing Urban Blight everywhere. We have enough New Construction to last us for the next 35 years! This is the issue here, not class/race.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at August 21, 2009 11:16 AM

My suspicion is that any Sunset Park condos or coops are gonna be developed by Chinese for more upscale Chinese clients.

That's what happened in Manhattan's Chinatown.

Sunset Park Chinatown may appear humble on the surface, but there's a lot of money there you don't see. Ethnicity and economic class aren't always wrapped together in one package.

Posted by: WonTon at August 21, 2009 11:22 AM

also how come landlords in chinatown dont get in trouble for only advertising apartments basically in chinese and refusing to rent to non chinese? i actually know two people who were flat out rejected for an apartment for not being chinese. definitely illegal, right? i guess i dont care though cuz if something was down about it there would be no more real chinatown and that would suck.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 21, 2009 11:26 AM

rob- don't think housing discrimination only goes on in Chinatown. Having been rejected from an apartment once in Brooklyn Heights because my husband was black, was no fun. It's illegal but way too many people get away with it. Look at Hasidic communities- they do it. I know Italians landlords who have discriminated- believe me, its all over.

But why shouldn't immigrant groups be allowed to complain? We're not talking illegal immigrants operating under the radar here. We're talking people who came to this country, are naturalized or have green cards.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 21, 2009 11:37 AM

I have a few more comments but I want to see what direction this thread takes first. :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 21, 2009 11:37 AM

Learn to read Chinese, rob, then no prob.

Based on my experience as a renter in Hong Kong, I can tell you that a lot of Chinese landlords do feel reluctant to rent to a non-Chinese speaking person. It isn't a matter of racism, but of communication--they would rather deal with a tenant they can communicate easily with.

In fact, a Chinese-speaking Westerner is a kind of dream tenant for a Chinese landlord.

My friend Bill, who has an MA in Chinese studies and speaks beautiful Mandarin, rented an apartment on Mott Street for five years, and his landlord never raised his rent. I have a similar deal going with my landlord in HK, who loves me--he even facebook friended me!

Posted by: WonTon at August 21, 2009 11:38 AM

wonton- I so envy you. I love languages but because of my hearing can barely communicate in English, let alone a foreign language. And frankly, learning language is not one of my skills :-(

Posted by: bxgrl at August 21, 2009 11:55 AM

What - to say that never in the history of this city has a whole neighborhood had to confront the issue of gentrification (which I'm assuming is what you're trying to say correcting for your typos and horrible grammar), just shows that you posses a very minimal knowledge of the history of the development of this City. When you talk about the history of this City - you claim to be an expert on everything that happened from the 70's on through today. But you're ignoring more than 100 years of the development of this City that predates that era. When it comes to the issue of neighborhood development and gentrification, as the good book says, there ain't nothing new under the sun.

Posted by: bkre at August 21, 2009 12:01 PM

bxgrl, we all, each of us, have our special talents. And you've got a lot of heart, which is a "language skill" of a higher category.

Posted by: WonTon at August 21, 2009 12:09 PM

Rob, you are right, immigrants should not complain about such issues. After all they are lucky just to be in this country. They should clean up after Park Slopers and quietly go back to their Sunset Park like neighborhoods.

Posted by: fobsdelhi at August 21, 2009 12:10 PM

"What - to say that never in the history of this city has a whole neighborhood had to confront the issue of gentrification (which I'm assuming is what you're trying to say correcting for your typos and horrible grammar),"

Then you fix it.

"ust shows that you posses a very minimal knowledge of the history of the development of this City."

Born, raised and will die here. 46 years strong.

"When you talk about the history of this City - you claim to be an expert on everything that happened from the 70's on through today."

Experience...

"But you're ignoring more than 100 years of the development of this City that predates that era."

So I'm going to use metrics from 1934 or 1913 or 1954????

"When it comes to the issue of neighborhood development and gentrification, as the good book says, there ain't nothing new under the sun."

Oh yes there is! When Bloomturd proclaims he's the "New Robert Mosses" I know there's something wrong with that.

Now you can correct my typos...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at August 21, 2009 12:22 PM

you completely misread my point fobs.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 21, 2009 12:25 PM

Sorry, What, i gotta agree with bkre on this...."

When you talk about the history of this City - you claim to be an expert on everything that happened from the 70's on through today. But you're ignoring more than 100 years of the development of this City that predates that era. When it comes to the issue of neighborhood development and gentrification, as the good book says, there ain't nothing new under the sun.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 21, 2009 12:26 PM

"Based on my experience as a renter in Hong Kong, I can tell you that a lot of Chinese landlords do feel reluctant to rent to a non-Chinese speaking person. It isn't a matter of racism, but of communication--they would rather deal with a tenant they can communicate easily with."

The problem with this logic WonTon is that its the basis for almost all discrimination. Yes there are hardcore racists out there, but the vast majority of racism exists, and is perpetuated by the notion of helping/assisting/preferring people who are "like you" in some way.

I'm sure the Chinese landlord doesn't hate the black, white or Latino applying for the apt., and that it would be easier for him/her to just let the place to a Chinese speaker, but that's why we have anti-discrimination laws. Discrimination usually isn't intentional or malicious, it's just the easier path.

Posted by: havelc at August 21, 2009 12:29 PM

havelc, it's not just that the Chinese landlord is taking the "easier path." There is a serious cultural issue at play, too. I've observed that in Chinese culture, there's a huge fear of misunderstanding. The worst possible thing is to find yourself enmeshed in a conflict situation, so you do everything you can beforehand to make sure that doesn't happen.

Even if it appears rude (which often, to Westerners, it does). Or reads as "discrimination" (likewise).

Posted by: WonTon at August 21, 2009 12:40 PM

WonTon, I'm not saying the Chinese landlord is a bad guy. I'm saying I understand why he wouldn't want to rent to someone who doesn't speak Chinese.

But my point is that there's no why in discrimination. It's not about casting people as good or bad or having misapprehensions about their justifications, it's simply was a specific individual ruled against (by company, landlord, boss etc.) on the basis of their race, class, language etc.

While I wouldn't judge the Chinese landlord individually for preferring a Chinese speaking landlord, it's the job of the government to prevent him from denying access to someone from another group.

Posted by: havelc at August 21, 2009 12:54 PM

I actually agree with WHAT on this-

People seem to be reaching in all directions for something that's not there.

Rob- really? immigrants have been one of New York City's most discernible groups throughout history.

This board is plagued by furtive attitudes and poorly concealed feelings towards certain groups. A flawed discern for wealth and privilege.

Still- the beauty of our country is the freedoms it affords to everyone, cowards and poseurs alike.

Posted by: Brooklynchimp at August 21, 2009 1:30 PM

I believe it was immigrant displacement in SoHo. One may Google the "SoHo Effect" of gentrification for what happened there. Possibly it was Polish immigrants. Sorry I don't have time to research this further or if this is slightly off-topic (not Brooklyn, etc, and it was more about art).

Posted by: BklynSoFar at August 21, 2009 1:38 PM

Just because you were born and raised here (as were many of us, despite what you like to believe)doesn't make you an expert. And yes, sometimes things that happened in 1913 are more relevent to a current situation than things that happened in 1974. And finally, just because noone ever taught you how to form a cogent argument or how to communicate effectively, doesn't make it my responsibility.

Posted by: bkre at August 21, 2009 1:55 PM

Sorry - my last comment at 1:55 was directed at the What - not to any of the posters immediately before mine.

Posted by: bkre at August 21, 2009 2:42 PM

I think the What's arguments as relates to gentrification as very cogent. That some people don't agree with his points don't make the arguments less valid, as much as some would like to think. Quibbling about typos is pretty ridiculous.

Not all of the people complaining are immigrants (I, for example, am Latino, but not an immigrant.) Not that it should make any difference whatsoever.

Posted by: BrooklynZoo at August 21, 2009 2:58 PM

The claiming of a neighborhood as someone's permanent ethnic territory is something of a new phenomenon. Now, many areas of the city are very unwelcoming of inevitable changes that will occur. There are lots of former enclaves that have disappeared entirely. (Anyone know where Swedish Broadway was?)

Posted by: slick at August 21, 2009 4:04 PM

Slick, funny when we turn the whole thing around and potentially look at the Chinese and Latino residents as the actual leaders of any gentrification...

Posted by: Action Jackson at August 21, 2009 5:59 PM

I don't know why latinos and asians are fighting it, its not like white people wants to move into those areas.

it would bring more affordable housing to the area. density would bring more housing, mostly asians and latinos would want to rent in the area.

right now many folks are moving out due to limited supply in the area, with limited supply you could charge more.

Posted by: armchairwarrior at August 24, 2009 10:21 AM

« Fires Break Out in Cobble Hill Greenlight Bookstore Renovation Blog: Week 4 »

August 21, 2009

Immigrant Groups Fight Sunset Park Rezoning

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