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August 3, 2009
House of the Day: 225 Garfield Place
This brownstone at 225 Garfield Place in Park Slope was an Open House Pick on Friday but it clearly deserves the full House of the Day treatment. Exterior? Great. Location? Great? Gut renovation? Extensive and probably expensive. Does it work for you? More importantly, can it fetch the $2,290,000 asking price?
225 Garfield Place [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
I'll repeat what I posted in the Open House thread:
This house has been on the market since March 2009. It started out asking $2,590,000.
It was also recently advertising 2 units for rent (apts #2 and #3), which according to Streeteasy have been rented out. So, if you're buying, you're getting tenants in place.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/225-garfield-place-brooklyn
Posted by: bk14 at August 3, 2009 1:17 PM
Looks gorgeous, but Minette Strokes seems to not know where she is, based on the price history:
03/02/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,590,000.
03/30/2009
Listing is no longer available.
05/14/2009
Re-listed by Corcoran.
05/14/2009
Price decreased by 13% to $2,250,000.
05/21/2009
Price increased by 2% to $2,290,000.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 1:18 PM
$2 million and 4 pictures. Corcoran is really outdoing themselves for their $100,000 commission!! Fucking douche bags.
That being said. It's a pretty house. Just wonder if the other 2 units are the same.... probably not, eh?
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 1:26 PM
Oh, and by the way, is it even possible to make this economically feasible? This is like $12,000 a month right? 3 units. $4,000 a month each unit just to cover the mortgage and taxes. (and that's after you threw down your $345,000 downpayment, which I guess most people on here have.)
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 1:29 PM
yuck. I hate the reno.
Posted by: gkw at August 3, 2009 1:36 PM
Here is an apparently active Corcoran rental listing for a unit in this house.
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=1852365
Posted by: bk14 at August 3, 2009 1:39 PM
Wherever it is, it's gorgeous.
Posted by: JHRiggs at August 3, 2009 1:42 PM
Oh... so you only get about $3800 a month in rental income? The other $8200/mo is what you pay for your own unit. With everything else involved, you're probably looking at about $10,000 a month or $120,000 a year... to SHARE your house with two other people/families.
Well, that seems perfectly acceptable.
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 1:50 PM
Too much granite and hulking stove hoods, not enough peeling plaster for my taste.
Posted by: mopar at August 3, 2009 1:50 PM
Overpriced but slightly less so than today's co-op of the day.
$2M/8(studio capacity in a typical brownstone) = 250K.
$/SF(Prime Park Slope) = $/SF(Anywhere in Fort Greene)? Don't think so!
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 3, 2009 1:52 PM
Would have to agree, Tyburg. But I guess someone will put down 50 percent or something like that. Remember: The schools!
Posted by: mopar at August 3, 2009 1:53 PM
tyburg you are making too much sense. stop explaining the economics and drink the koolaid
Posted by: brickoven at August 3, 2009 1:53 PM
I'm with tybur6. The kind of folks who can afford this sort of place are not going to want to live with two tenants stomping around overhead. This house would probably be more valuable as a single family or as a triplex over a garden floor rental.
Posted by: JoeBushwick at August 3, 2009 1:54 PM
Umm... yeah the schools. Does anyone in the market for a $2 million house actually send their kid to public school?
Honestly, I would think not.
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 1:56 PM
"Does anyone in the market for a $2 million house actually send their kid to public school?"
You clearly are not familiar with P.S. 321...
The answer to your question is most certainly, yes. It's the reason why many people with children move to this area of Park Slope in the first place.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 2:00 PM
"two tenants stomping around overhead"
LOL.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 3, 2009 2:01 PM
Top floor tenants means "locked" entry to your parlor. Would suck to pay this amount for a house and then have it feel like a condo. Plus, three-family means fire-escape (ugly) or sprinklers (ugly). Also, owner bedrooms on the semi-dark garden floor = lame.
AND - is that a steam radiator in the parlor? For this amount of loot, the house needs central HVAC.
That said, nice exterior and good location.
Posted by: Mr Joist at August 3, 2009 2:02 PM
I thought PS 321 was oversubscribed and the little rich brats were being sent to crappy schools in other neighborhoods anyway?
And what about after they are older than peeing-in-their-pants age? I've never heard anything extraordinary about the high schools and middle schools in the park slope area.
So, when do they transfer to Berkeley-Carroll, Brooklyn Friends, Poly Prep or Packer Collegiate?
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 2:06 PM
Think again Tybur6 - Who do you think can "afford" a 2M home (and lets exclude the rentals and pretend it is a single family. Using all "conventional" numbers - if you buy it 20% down (maybe you sold an apartment you bought right), your Mortgage payment and taxes will be about 11K a month; if you say that it is 28% of of a families Gross Income, then you are looking at needing an income of 500K - to "afford" this place - which while clearly alot but far from filthy rich - especially when you consider net current NYC/NYS taxes.
Now ask yourself - do you think private school at $35K A KID annually is really irrelevant to these potential buyers (especially if the Public School is good)
Posted by: fsrg at August 3, 2009 2:16 PM
Which New Jersey public school did you attend tybur6?
Posted by: northsloperenter at August 3, 2009 2:16 PM
"Who do you think can "afford" a 2M home"
I'll post an example since I know a couple who are eagerly looking to buy in Brooklyn right now for about this price point.
Both make around 350K combined (which isn't outrageous considering they are in their 50's. Neither work in finance, both are arts professionals). Both have lived in NYC for 30 plus years, both bought their most recent property in the mid 90's (one bought a 1 bedroom in the West Village for 200K which is now valued at 800k, the other bought a 2 bedroom in Midtown for 150K which is now valued at 900K).
Combined, they have 1.3 million in equity from their home purchases, plus substantial savings.
They will be paying all cash.
Any questions?
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 2:21 PM
I would seriously consider this as a one family, but you know there's $200,000 minimum to reconfigure the top floors and really convert from rental to single home. It's way overpriced as a single family option - and as tyburg and others have so eloquently noted already the economic and logistic reality of two rentals overhead with the pleasure of a dark bedroom on ground floor doesn't work at $2.3 MM. Price it below $2 million and single family buyers can legitimately entertain this.
Posted by: HellsBelles at August 3, 2009 2:22 PM
frsq, don't forget to point out that the private school tuition is not tax deductable. So that 35K is actually probably over 50K of before-tax income. So with two kids, thats over 100K of your 500K income just on schooling.
Posted by: dittoburg at August 3, 2009 2:22 PM
guess $2M USD just don't have same buying power as not too long ago. Anyhow, agree completely that if you're going to pay $2M or more, you shouldn't have tenants in there. $2M or more = you're conveying you're rich. have 2 tenants in there = you're stretching so you're at best a wannabe rich
Posted by: more4less at August 3, 2009 2:36 PM
dittoburg - exactly the idea that the people in the market for this home would "automatically" be private schoolers too is frankly asinine. The reality is most people who SHOULD be in the market for this kind of home are forced to suburban areas because 321, 107, 24 etc... are the exceptions rather than the rule - and while (relatively) many two income families could afford the house - they cant afford the house PLUS the school.
Posted by: fsrg at August 3, 2009 2:41 PM
Very few kids go to local middle schools - they're all trying out for "magnets" by that age.
Posted by: Arkady at August 3, 2009 2:42 PM
Tyburg's concerns about the value of education in PS are valid - many families I know in this income range would prefer private, may settle for public (yes, I used the word "settle"), and are frankly terrified about looming cuts and real chaos in public education. People who have seen the education horror show unfold all over NYC have reason to be worried about the long-term viability of Park Slope's "good" schools or a guaranteed spot for your kid in the "best" district after you have spent $2 million+ on a home. By the way, private school admission in Brooklyn is at it's highest levels ever - there are no guarantees you'll get in no matter how much you spend on your home.
At any rate it's enough that there is uncertainty to turn many would-be Park Slope families away. Who wants to take a chance on your kids' education?
Posted by: HellsBelles at August 3, 2009 2:48 PM
"many families I know in this income range would prefer private, may settle for public"
That's interesting...many of the parents I know moved here specifically to send their kids to the public schools in PS.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 2:51 PM
It's certainly the case that I know more kids from 321 who got into Stuy than from B/C (many of whom would have switched if they'd been accepted.)
Posted by: Arkady at August 3, 2009 2:55 PM
OH MY GOD!!! You fuckers are so out of touch.
Yes, if you make $500,000+ per year, $35k a year for your little brat is NOT THAT MUCH. In fact, almost any normal expense is really only blip on the radar screen.
And 11217... "Both make around 350K combined (which isn't outrageous considering they are in their 50's. Neither work in finance, both are arts professionals)."
Are you suggesting that they are not very comfortable if not wealthy? If they have the means to buy $1.5 million of real estate IN CASH they are very fucking wealthy in my book... though, on this board and in the fantasy world of "prime brooklyn" where a couple hundred thousand dollars is walking-around-money... yeah, they are "of modest means"
If you can buy a $2 million house, but then $35k a year for your CHILD's EDUCATION seems painful... maybe you should look at buying a $1.5 million house.
JAYSUS FUCKING CHRIST
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 2:58 PM
Yes, 11217 - "moved" in the past tense. Tyburg is raising legitimate concerns about the current and future viability of public schools. He's not alone in wondering what the future will hold. You seem to be stuck in the past.
Posted by: HellsBelles at August 3, 2009 3:03 PM
Yes, Tyburg...I'd consider them wealthy. I think they probably would consider themselves quite comfortable as well.
You have many valid points, but what you consistently fail to realize is that New York City accounts for a huge percentage of wealthy people in the U.S. The wealthiest zip code in the U.S. is in Manhattan. While I might not be wealthy, I certainly come into contact with many people with mind-boggling wealth. To deny that these people exist seems to be your fault on this topic.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 3:04 PM
Not going to jump into the public/private school debate, but am curious to hear what other posters think about the "dark bedroom on the garden floor level" criticism. To me, that's a sensible use of the space---I'd rather have the living rooms, kitchens, DR etc. on the parlor level and enjoy the light there. Bedrooms are mostly for sleeping, no? I've always put my bedrooms in whatever is the least-bright part of the house, but maybe I'm lowering my resale value that way...?
Posted by: mookie2 at August 3, 2009 3:05 PM
tybur, perhaps if you typed your whole post in caps it'd be more convincing.
Posted by: dittoburg at August 3, 2009 3:06 PM
The appeal of 321 is to send your kid to public school for K through 5.
There really isn't much of an argument for sending your kid to a private school for those grades if there is a quality public school available, unless you want a religious education or something.
Once you get into middle school, the gap between the public/private schools start to grow, and at that time a lot of parents might be reconsidering where to send their kid.
But those 6 years of public school save a lot of cash, give the kid a chance to make friends in the neighborhood, and satisfy the weird guilt some parents feel about not sending their kid to public school.
People who plan on sending their kid to private school for pre-K-12 don't need to spend the extra cash to live in a neighborhood with good public schools and buy a better property in a neighborhood with lousy schools.
It really has more to do with the parents' attitude toward private school than money.
Posted by: northsloperenter at August 3, 2009 3:06 PM
Here is the latest info for PS. 321:
http://projects.nytimes.com/new-york-schools-test-scores/counties/kings/districts/nyc-geographic-district-15/schools/p-s-321-william-penn
Out of 3,468 public schools in the state of New York, PS. 321 is ranked 153rd.
Not too shabby.
And HellesBelles, this is current info, so please explain to me how I'm living in the past.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 3:10 PM
tyburg6 needs a cookie and some milk
Posted by: East New York at August 3, 2009 3:10 PM
Northsloperenter -- couldn't agree with you more. It's not about money. Folks in this tax bracket have plenty of it. It's the public/private divide. It's about quality. If it's available, that's awesome. BUT, it seriously irks me when I hear someone hinting at $35k for a kid's education to be a hardship of some sort when they just plopped down a couple MILLION dollars for their little slice of brooklyn.
Dittoburg -- yes, I think you're right. Maybe next time.
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 3:14 PM
11217 -- there are 1200 students at PS 321. Are there only 1200 students in the catchment area?
That's the problem.
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 3:16 PM
mookie2 -- I agree that if you have a garden/parlor duplex putting the bedrooms on the garden level makes sense.
Posted by: northsloperenter at August 3, 2009 3:17 PM
I am not sure what the appeal of sending your kid to PS school is as it's not even in the top 10 schools
http://projects.nytimes.com/new-york-schools-test-scores?hp
As NSRenter mentioned it is 153rd--plenty of other options, namely 152 alternatives.
The only advantage of going to PS school is other PS kids and of course throwing all that money for living in a dark 2br with two renters no less
Posted by: bklplebe at August 3, 2009 3:17 PM
bklpepbe - thr NYC link states that its 153rd in NYS not NYC. So there aren't really 152 alterntaivers if you want to live in NYC.
Posted by: dittoburg at August 3, 2009 3:20 PM
tybur6 I think it is you that are out of touch since you obviously do not make anywhere near the money required to purchase a house like this Nor do you likely know anyone who could - since I am far closer to this "reality" then you are I am confident that my assessment is closer to reality than yours. Not to mention many families do not have just one "brat"...and if you think 70K a year after taxes is nothing to the (obviously wealthy) 500K family - they you truly are more of a moron than your obnoxios post reveal you to be.
Posted by: fsrg at August 3, 2009 3:21 PM
Bklpepbe:
As Ditto mentioned, that 153 ranking is for ALL of New York STATE (not city) not to mention it includes elementary, middle AND high schools.
Of over 3,400 public schools in the State of New York (including some extremely wealthy ones in Long Island and Westchester) P.S. 321 ranks in the 95th percentile.
Not bad for Brooklyn.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 3:25 PM
dittoburg
incorrect the good schools in ny state are not in buffalo. They are in NYC and suburbs: westchester, long island. SO there are actually 150 BETTER alternatives in public schools
Posted by: bklplebe at August 3, 2009 3:29 PM
BKLPLEBE:
Welcome to Brownstoner!
I see these are your first two posts ever on this website.
Way to start off with a lot of misinformation and trash talking!
You'll fit in just fine.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 3:32 PM
11217:
whatever! from the rankings it is clear that Park Slope schooling is nothing exceptional and certainly not a reason to move there
Posted by: bklplebe at August 3, 2009 3:32 PM
fsrq... Are you that much of a twat?
let's take a 'family' making $500k. They're take-home income is what? Say, $275,000 per year!? After you take out the $70,000 for junior and juniorette... you have TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS to work with for your other expenses.
So, fsrq, since you understand so much better than I.... You can't possibly make it work for $200,000 a year?!
I am very comfortable sticking with the notion that folks making $500,000+ per year have absolutely NO problem with the tuition bill.... i.e., the folks that are in the market for a $2 million house don't have to worry about schools.
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 3:33 PM
guess I'll just go rent a room in Chinatown so I can enroll my kid in PS 124 and save myself so $$$ and retire early
Posted by: more4less at August 3, 2009 3:34 PM
more4less I'm too lazy too look up the rankings - how does it do?
Posted by: dittoburg at August 3, 2009 3:40 PM
more4less, Chinatown is way overpriced.
Posted by: northsloperenter at August 3, 2009 3:43 PM
Its not a "hardship" to spend $35K A KID to send your kid to private school if you make 500K a year but 1. Its not like you can live in NYC anywhere for FREE - so the marginal cost of a $2M brownstone isnt $2M. and 2. There maybe FAR better uses for the money than sending a kid to private school - 35K*6=$210,000 per kid (more if you consider the present value of money) - which might be better spent (if there is a good public school) on -for example SAVINGS, so for example if you lose your job, your arm, or your life. 3. Many kids CANT get into private school - anyhow.
So you can make it like (paraphrasing Tybur6 dumb posts) - 'these rich people don't give a $hit about the public school because they will send their brats to private school without even a 2nd thought"
But you'd be wrong - you better be making alot more than 500K if you think 35k a year PER KID isnt significant spending worthy of serious consideration.
Posted by: fsrg at August 3, 2009 3:44 PM
bklpepbe - many of those schools will offer zero diveristy though, which (to put a simple label on it) is why many people live in the city and not in Scarsdale.
Posted by: dittoburg at August 3, 2009 3:46 PM
Very good point, Ditto.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 3:49 PM
dittoburg:
why do you say that?
if you look at the top ten list some of these schools are as diverse as park slope. For example, the top school in the NYT list (great neck) has less whites than park slope.
Posted by: bklplebe at August 3, 2009 3:53 PM
I agree, new cherry cabinets for the kitchen is more important than your children's education. The "better uses" for your money argument sort of fall short....
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 3:53 PM
More4less, that's a great idea. If Hunter doesn't work out, I'm getting a pied-a-terre in Chinatown.
Posted by: mopar at August 3, 2009 3:54 PM
Ditto, I often hear ps 124 is pretty good, etc. so was assuming a school of chinese immigrants hungry for success in this great country should yield some great results. too lazy to look it up too. am assuming it close to ps 321.
N'Slope, overpriced? who knows but would bet its less overpriced then prime BK hoods. Super safe hood, cheap food, great transportation,... think I just convinced myself to think this over a little bit more seriously
Posted by: more4less at August 3, 2009 3:55 PM
I got off my belly and looked it up. 93rd percentile. Not bad, considering its 61% poor. (PS 321 is 12% poor). My daughter's school is apparently "100%" poor and ranked 90th percentile.
Posted by: dittoburg at August 3, 2009 3:58 PM
"if you look at the top ten list some of these schools are as diverse as park slope. For example, the top school in the NYT list (great neck) has less whites than park slope."
That doesn't mean it's more diverse. And since the school has 400 fewer students, no it doesn't have "less whites than park slope."
First of all, Lakeville School in Great Neck has 856 students compared to 1223 at PS. 321.
Lakeville is 57% white, 2% black, 6% hispanic and 35% Asian.
PS. 321 is 64% white, 15% black, 14% hispanic and 7% Asian.
Judging by what I know about the demographics of the United States of America, the school in Great Neck sounds a lot more "white" to me compared to what really exists in the U.S...
13% black
15% hispanic
4% Asian
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 4:04 PM
more4less -- Chinatown is one of the Manhattan neighborhoods that is cheaper than the more popular neighborhoods of Brooklyn.
I was being snide and implying that even though it is cheap it is not cheap enough.
Chinatown falls solidly into my 'nice place to visit' column.
Posted by: northsloperenter at August 3, 2009 4:05 PM
ah! "diversity"! my pet peeve when it comes to schools.
321 is what my teacher-friend calls "Park Slope Diverse" meaning more than half white (according to that times piece, 64% white). Diverse enough to feel good about yourselves while being quite a bit less diverse than Brooklyn itself (41% white in 2000). Part of the secret to the school's success is that there isn't a housing project in it's zone. So no kids living in crisis to potentially bring down the numbers or scare away Fiona's parents.
Anyway, my pet peeve as I say. Otherwise 321 is a terrific school tho I'm not sure it has the pull it used to have for two reasons: (1) it's really very crowded and getting more crowded and (2) in the meantime, a dozen other schools in "brownstone brooklyn" have stepped it up and emerged as legitimate options to 321.
Nice looking house.
Posted by: Ringo at August 3, 2009 4:06 PM
Tybur6 I see your reading comprehension is as limited as your writing skills.
Posted by: fsrg at August 3, 2009 4:07 PM
"Diverse enough to feel good about yourselves"
I think you might be missing the point about diversity.
And why does it have to be an exact facsimile of brooklyn's demographic make-up? Simply attributing diversity along racial lines, while a forgivable American error, is missing the point. The white children at my daughter's school (at least the ones she is friends with) are Russian, French, Norwegian and Greek. There is diveristy of outlook, experience, and approach simply within that group. NYC offers that diveristy, 40% of its population was not even born in the US.
To be honest a white kid, a black kid and a hispanic who were born in NYC and grew up on the LES might probably aren't offering so much diversity at all.
Posted by: dittoburg at August 3, 2009 4:13 PM
My spelling is appalling today.
Posted by: dittoburg at August 3, 2009 4:15 PM
Besides many people appreciate selective diversity in schools - as in, while I'd like my kids to learn to exist in a school/world with many different cultures, outlooks etc...I'd prefer that they not be forced to learn with kids who are ill prepared to learn, are disruptive, violent or otherwise detract (rather than enhance) the learning experience. That seems to be a much more important consideration in terms of "diversity" then simply matching wide racial classifications across meaningless boundaries (nabe, city, state, nation, planet)
Posted by: fsrg at August 3, 2009 4:20 PM
What's the lower left photo that looks like a basement? I can't figure that out. If it's the windowless middle bedroom, then the other room it looks into should have a window and a door. It's creepy looking.
Posted by: Nomi at August 3, 2009 4:20 PM
Anyway the Park Slope school is nothing exceptional and all this discussion was about this comment
"Would have to agree, Tyburg. But I guess someone will put down 50 percent or something like that. Remember: The schools!"
Unfortunately it's not the schools. Find some other reason.
Posted by: bklplebe at August 3, 2009 4:22 PM
fsrq, same to you buddy. You boiled down all of my posts to an absurd degree... so I did the same with your response.
You are right, though. I don't understand the lifestyle and requirements of the wealthy... and you, apparently, have no idea what it's like to live in NYC knowing it's becoming less and less of a possibility everyday. I am a 'professional' and make a decent wage, but this city is absurd and all of the arguments by the wealthy that have created this market make me angry.
Yes, it's folks like fsrq and 11217 that *defend* the marketplace and exacerbate the ever increasing expenses of this city with comments like "it's all part of living in New York" and "New York is expensive" and "you're out of touch because you don't know how hard it is to be rich in NYC" etc etc.
I think i'm actually the type of person you'd want in your neighborhood... stable job, good credit rating, no perverted habits involving fire... but I don't see a long term future here. I wish that wasn't the case. It's because studio apartments at $1800 are being *defended* and folks making $500k a year are being characterized as having to be very very conscious of where the put their money... I am VERY conscious of where my money goes. And I don't have much of a margin each month, not really an issue of deciding whether or not Junior should go to public or private school.
(as a side note, I like how this board has a lot of mention of people 'working in the arts' -- there was at least one mention of it on this thread today -- but these folks always seem to make HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars... I'm starting to realize quickly why I can't actually take advantage of all of the cultural and art opportunities this city has to offer... it's money!!)
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 4:33 PM
people who make more then 500 are going to be taxed like they have never seen before. Credit Suise had a great report on the effect that the Obama taxes will have on NYC RE.
Posted by: brickoven at August 3, 2009 4:44 PM
Not just fed. taxes that are meant to be increasing, NYS taxes too.
Posted by: dittoburg at August 3, 2009 4:52 PM
BO- you might want to go take out a long lease for your new handle. I can think of much worse in case it's already taken. btw, have you done your homework? I have.
Posted by: antidope at August 3, 2009 4:56 PM
tybur6 "I think i'm actually the type of person you'd want in your neighborhood... "
Actually no; angry, envious and obnoxious neighbors with almost no reading comprehension (I did not say anything along the lines of what you assert) is not what most people are looking for.
Posted by: fsrg at August 3, 2009 4:59 PM
> people who make more then 500 are going to be taxed
> like they have never seen before.
Really? Higher than the 70-94% rates imposed from 1936-1981?
Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 3, 2009 5:00 PM
just saying, 321 is LESS racially and economically diverse than it's area. so I dont get the whole diversity thing.
and hey, nobody wants violent kids in the classroom, but I'm hopeful that city dwellers would welcome a kid in their 1st grade class who may be ill-prepared when they arrive at school thru no fault of their own. there are families in crisis all over this town, and it would be both ironic and depressing if they were considered somehow "less" in a place like Park Slope.
Posted by: Ringo at August 3, 2009 5:02 PM
"I am a 'professional' and make a decent wage, but this city is absurd and all of the arguments by the wealthy that have created this market make me angry."
You simply sound like someone who doesn't have what it takes to make it here. You're right - you should leave.
Posted by: East New York at August 3, 2009 5:06 PM
Ditmas - depends how old they are
Posted by: dittoburg at August 3, 2009 5:08 PM
I have a friend in that income range - a single mother w/ a brownstone. Not only taxes & mortgage come out of it but savings for college, piano lessons, etc. It mounts up & private school tuition is not just icing on that cake.
Posted by: Arkady at August 3, 2009 5:09 PM
LOL "What's in your wallet? " Capital one.
Oh my the hate.
You people went into a top school frenzie just trying to firgure this out. And Brownstoner just told you Berkley Carroll is expanding.
Just face it you'll never find a primo brownstone in PS for less than a milli. Only Kah Kah is left.
Posted by: jack slade at August 3, 2009 5:14 PM
"and you, apparently, have no idea what it's like to live in NYC knowing it's becoming less and less of a possibility everyday."
Actually, housing prices are down, rents are down...how exactly is it becoming less and less a possibility...?
And p.s. working in "the arts" does not always mean the not for profit arts. You might be surprised to learn that Yo Yo Ma's fee for one concert...a single night is $90,000. He performs over 250 concerts per year.
His manager takes 20%.
There you have an endless cycle of people in the arts who make substantial money, and that's classical music...not even a genre which people consider lucrative...
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 5:15 PM
fsrq is a complete twat, so i'm no longer going to engage. he knows very well I'm 'comprehending' -- he just doesn't like my responses.
However, ENY, while you are right... I probably should leave... I think it's interesting that the desirable outcome for New York is that no one with an income under six-figures can actually live here comfortably... or enjoy any of the fee-based "amenities." (yes, there are various free things in the city... not talking about that stuff)
I guess I should either figure out how to magically make more than 6-figures or leave.... since I'm working for the city's second or third largest employer and only a tiny fraction at the highest levels scrape together over $100k... this is more baffling.
So, yeah, probably begin working on my exit strategy. Sad though, really.
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 5:18 PM
"but I'm hopeful that city dwellers would welcome a kid in their 1st grade class who may be ill-prepared when they arrive at school thru no fault of their own. there are families in crisis all over this town, and it would be both ironic and depressing if they were considered somehow "less" in a place like Park Slope."
Ringo, I don't think "less" is the accurate term, but realistically these 'crisis' have little chance of being overcome through our school system - it is simply not possible in many cases; the "family life/culture" is too dysfunctional to ever be able to be overcome in a 'normal' school situation (sad but true) - and it frankly makes no sense to do the "politically" correct thing and try to accommodate this population on the backs of the students that are in-fact prepared. (not that I am saying that they should be abandoned - but to just stick these kids in normal classes does nothing for anyone and in fact compounds the problem.)
Posted by: fsrg at August 3, 2009 5:20 PM
"Really? Higher than the 70-94% rates imposed from 1936-1981"
Ditmas
Like I said people who make more then 500 are going to be taxed
like they have never seen before. The increaese are huge! They are already talking about raising the mansion tax as well.
Posted by: brickoven at August 3, 2009 5:22 PM
"I think it's interesting that the desirable outcome for New York is that no one with an income under six-figures can actually live here comfortably"
The thing is...I know a ton of people who make what you make here (and I started out making 25K myself at my first job in NYC 9 years ago) and I NEVER hear people complain about it as much as you do.
The most fun things in life are surrounding yourself with people you enjoy and taking advantage of the simple things.
You seem to be unable to be happy without money and that means that you aren't going to be happy in NYC...or wherever you live until that mindset changes.
I just had one of the best weekends ever...had some friends over, smoked some herb, took some amazing walks, cooked up some dinner, went to Brighton Beach, went to the Brooklyn Museum, played volleyball in Prospect Park.
I think I spent $60 the whole weekend.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 5:24 PM
11217... Wages are also down (or at least very flat)... unemployment is up... and every expense *other than* real estate is still going up.
Oh, thanks for the reiteration of my point, that's why I can't afford art and cultural events for the most part. $300 broadway tickets, $200 ballet tickets, even $20 for the Metropolitan Museum... Eeergh.
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 5:25 PM
I am shocked that the What hasn't interjected his two cents into this one
... or has he?
Posted by: Jail_Bait at August 3, 2009 5:25 PM
No summer vacation on these threads.
Posted by: Nomi at August 3, 2009 5:28 PM
"Sad though, really."
No, not at all. You don't sound like a very balanced person to me. I think both you and NYC will be much better off when you're living somewhere else.
Posted by: East New York at August 3, 2009 5:29 PM
The Obama tax plan is making me reconsider whether I will get back in as an owner on NYC real estate. I am starting to think Obama is putting a ceiling on prices for many many years. If the masnion tax goes to 2.5 % which is an idea they are throwing around now, i WILL NEVER BUY
Posted by: brickoven at August 3, 2009 5:30 PM
You aren't very creative, Tyburg. You are only proving the point about how you should leave. NYC is not for everyone. You don't seem to be able to think outside the box AT ALL...
Go get rush tickets for a Broadway show. I do. They're $20.
Go to the first Saturday at Brooklyn Museum. It's free.
Go read a cookbook and buy the ingredients to make a fantastic Mario Batali meal for your friends for 1/10th what it would cost to go to one of his restaurants.
Go to BAM, where many shows have great reasonably priced tickets, find a friend who manages artists and can get you into shows for free.
This is the beauty of NYC...it takes some work to make it work, but once you do, it's a cornucopia of riches!
And I don't mean money.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 5:30 PM
11217 -- I totally hear you. And I do. I basically did the same things as you this weekend, except the museum, and replace walk with bike.... but the "simple life" is an odd way to approach life in a "world class city" -- no?
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 5:31 PM
EastNewYork has been added to my total twat list.
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 5:33 PM
Well for me, getting to be here and feel the energy of all of the 8.4 million people all from different parts of the world and feel inspired by that energy is the reason I live here.
In another city, I'd have probably done the walk, a drive and a long trip to the couch for some tv watching.
Here, I want to be out, talking to people, learning new things...and doing what might be simple things, but in yes...a world-class setting.
And every once in a while getting to enjoy something so spectacular that makes me realize I'm never leaving.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 5:36 PM
East New York is dumb even by team bull standards
Posted by: brickoven at August 3, 2009 5:37 PM
I should write a book...!
Living the simple life in a world-class city.
;)
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 5:38 PM
Nomi, this price tag will cause folks to take a permenant vacation from NY.
Posted by: jack slade at August 3, 2009 5:39 PM
"EastNewYork has been added to my total twat list."
At least I'm not whining on a blog about how I can't afford to live in NYC....WAAAAAA!!!! Sob, sob.
"East New York is dumb even by team bull standards"
Hey brickoven - I'm writing up a new lease as we speak and I'm charging DOUBLE for any tenant who takes in a roommate. Try and stop me!! HA! HA!
Oh, this is fun!!
Posted by: East New York at August 3, 2009 5:40 PM
I don't mind Tyburg, he just sounds frustrated but is keepin' it real here.
Brickoven on the other hand gets the award from me for being tied with Cornerbodega for most asinine and ignorant poster on Brownstoner.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 5:44 PM
No one mentioning the $11K a year in taxes....blows away it's overpriced brethren by 6-7K a year!!!
Property taxes not deductible if you're in ATM as well, which many in this category are likely to be. Owch!
Totally agree, at this price, buyer profile not looking to have renters on their heads. And at this price, who's dropping another $200K to renovate a new reno? Not many.
A great place for a new reno (not my preference, but most new ones blow), on a great great block...but if you assume 4K a month in rent, PLUS 11K a year in taxes, having seen many of it's peers, you better get much closer to $1.6-$1.7 Mil to make it interesting. I fit the buyer profile a bit lower than that level (w/ renters), oh, but wait....
I forgot the property taxes that will never go down and probably aren't deductible. Double Owch!!
One comment: "if you buy it 20% down..."
No one is writing mortgages for 20% down over a Mil. 25% to 30% almsot guaranteed.
Posted by: MoneyForNothing at August 3, 2009 5:45 PM
East New York youre entire lease is void. The renter could stay there for about a year and not pay you one dime if they wanted to. And on top of that they can sue you and see to it that you are fined by NY state. If you try to get them to sign a legal lease how are you going to explain to them why it needs to be done? You are f%*&
Posted by: brickoven at August 3, 2009 5:45 PM
Tyburg, where are you living? Maybe you're paying too much of your income in rent. Move to a cheaper hood, it's fun.
Posted by: mopar at August 3, 2009 5:50 PM
"East New York youre entire lease is void. The renter could stay there for about a year and not pay you one dime if they wanted to. And on top of that they can sue you and see to it that you are fined by NY state. If you try to get them to sign a legal lease how are you going to explain to them why it needs to be done? You are f%*&"
Oh no!!! Uh oh! I'm SOOO sacred!!! Brrrr!! HA! HA!!
Posted by: East New York at August 3, 2009 5:50 PM
Judging by his inability to grasp the English language and proper grammar, do we think BO went to P.(O).S. elementary school in Imatotalmoronville, NY?
I wonder what percentile they were ranked.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 5:55 PM
11217 we cant all be big ballers like you pimpin it out in a studio! I bet you got all A's to put yourself in there. You are livin the dream man, livin the dream
Posted by: brickoven at August 3, 2009 6:00 PM
and Hell yes I am the product of a Public school, private scool got you a studio on the fringe and public scool got me a floor thru in Brooklyn Heights!
Posted by: brickoven at August 3, 2009 6:03 PM
Didn't go to private school. Public school all the way for me right through my bachelors, masters and doctoral degrees, BO.
And yes, I OWN a studio.
You RENT a floor thru.
I'm also probably about 110 years younger than you.
And this is ONE of the apartments I own.
The other is a country you've never heard of, I'm sure.
Posted by: 11217 at August 3, 2009 6:10 PM
Tybur6, there are hundreds of thousands of middle-income New Yorkers living in areas with decent enough public schools (or Catholic schools, where lots of kids learn, you know, grammar and stuff for an affordable price). Most of them live in very nice neighborhoods that few people on Brownstoner have ever been to. Marine Park, anyone? Madison? It is possible, you just have to get out more.
Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at August 3, 2009 6:15 PM
11217 just BAKED your ass, brickoven!! HA! HA! HA!!!
Posted by: East New York at August 3, 2009 6:15 PM
some good ol' fashioned mud-slinging!
Posted by: dittoburg at August 3, 2009 6:18 PM
Yes I rent, sold my place to some richer sucker version of you. How does it feel do go to sleep at night and know you lost money in youre sleep? If you are old enough to have a doctorate you are most likely not younger then me.
Posted by: brickoven at August 3, 2009 6:18 PM
Mopar -- I live in Ditmas Park / Flatbush... I don't even live in official "Brownstone Brooklyn." Probably breaking the rules posting on here.
The only thing that would make my living expenses cheaper would be getting a roommate (which I just finally transitioned away from) or finding a wife to split rent with. The latter would probably make me less whiny. Chicken-and-egg, Catch 22, right? :-)
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 6:19 PM
I got my doctorate at 25. Just sayin.
Posted by: dittoburg at August 3, 2009 6:21 PM
East New York baked my ass? Where the hell are you from baked my ass. Go back to Cali
Posted by: brickoven at August 3, 2009 6:21 PM
11217, you got it right about living in NYC... there is SO MUCH to do that is free and cheap.
I love the way everyone opining on the public schools in PS doesn't seem to have a kid in them... my kid was in private school, Brooklyn Friends, it totally sucked, moved to PS for 321. She went to the gifted program in 51, which was fine, and after that she went to the HS of her choice, which happened to be LaGuardia. At the time, she wanted to sing. She sang w the NYC Opera, Wynton Marsalis, Tony Bennett. You could not get what she got in any private school...
Posted by: denton at August 3, 2009 6:23 PM
Public School Slag-fest aside, and it has been enjoyable gotta give it up to Tybur:
"With everything else involved, you're probably looking at about $10,000 a month or $120,000 a year... to SHARE your house with two other people/families."
Man that just sums up the whole thing, don't it?
The nice thing with this place is since it's a new reno, there will be no delisting b/c the owners don't like what they're being offered and decide to wait for a recovery (to them: hope you got a while!!)
SUMMARY...watch this sit and suffer, my friends.
Posted by: MoneyForNothing at August 3, 2009 6:24 PM
"East New York baked my ass? Where the hell are you from baked my ass. Go back to Cali"
You better be careful - I'll tell your landlord to up your rent!! HA! HA! HA! 11217 baked your ass!!!
Posted by: East New York at August 3, 2009 6:27 PM
East New York you are like a Surfing Slum Lord.
Posted by: brickoven at August 3, 2009 6:30 PM
I have actually raised a 13-year-old in Brooklyn and she has lived to tell the tale. She is not interested in living anywhere else, and I'm not either. She went to PS130 in Chinatown--better school, imho, than 124, although 124 has improved lately with a new principal. Most Park Slope kids do go to middle school in District 15 (Park Slope south of Union St.; most of Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens, Sunset Park) but go all over the city to high school. City kids get around via Metrocards instead of needing Mommy and/or Daddy to drive them--a huge benefit to all. There are all kinds of free and low-cost options for kids to see theater, concerts, museums, etc. I have an income below the median in Brooklyn (which is lower than you think) but my daughter has had a first-class education growing up in Brooklyn.
Posted by: rf at August 3, 2009 6:42 PM
> 11217 just BAKED your ass, brickoven!!
It's amazing what one can do with a cheap cut of meat and a little creativity.
Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 3, 2009 6:42 PM
"Mopar -- I live in Ditmas Park / Flatbush..."
Tybur6, do I ever see you at Sycamore?
Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at August 3, 2009 6:46 PM
After having a case of commentitis on the Coop Of The Day thread, I'll simply say:
Tybur, please don't use the eff-word. You really went at today.
And Mr. Joist, you really tore the HOTD to shreds there...but I agree, fire escapes, exposed steam and sprinkler pipes are all ugly.
Yes, I can see someone coming and taking over another floor in this house. I find the original style rather ugly altogether. But I like what they did with the renovation.
I've never been a fan of Neo-Greque, Eastlake and the like. I find it all rather depressing this is why I find that much of Park Slope is not to my taste.
I prefer the older parts of "Brownstone Brooklyn" most of which is "brick"...and prettier. Give me a brick rowhouse street in Fort Greeene (of course), Cobble Hill or Brooklyn Heights any day.
Posted by: BrooklynGreene at August 3, 2009 7:42 PM
The numbers are ridiculous on this one....Corcoran needs to put down the crack pipe.
What is the point of having rentals if it won't even make a dent in the mortgage payment...and this won't. Why spend 2.25 million to live in Bklyn and be a landlord and still pay through the nose?
Posted by: argentina at August 3, 2009 9:01 PM
Sixyearsandcounting... you probably have, but my identity will remain secret until I have completed testifying against the mob.
BrooklynGreene... sorry about the eff-word, I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Though, I have to admit that I can't promise it won't happen again...
Oh, sixyearsandcounting, by the way... Marine Park and other places are fine. However, what if you work anywhere but Manhattan? (I'm assuming there's some sort of magical link to midtown, there always seems to be something manhattancentric.) These not so 'central' places make it difficult to get places which does make living on more modest means even more problematic.
Posted by: tybur6 at August 3, 2009 9:17 PM
tybur6 ..... Based on the articulate F bomb in your first post, you could have probably used a 321 education yourself.
Posted by: Crownlfc at August 4, 2009 4:09 AM
Latest Restaurant Additions
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Le Barricou
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Mr. Wonton
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Casa Rosa
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Cousin John's Café & Bakery
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