« Inside Third & Bond: Week 95 House of the Day: 329 President Street »

August 6, 2009

Co-op of the Day: 27 South Portland Avenue, #3

27-south-portland-0809.jpg
How much more is a parlor floor studio worth than a ground floor studio? That's the question that leaped to mind when we contemplated this detail-rich listing at 27 South Portland Avenue, currrently listed for $325,000, on the heels of Monday's co-op of the day at 32 South Oxford Street. In addition to the ceiling height and architectural details, today's studio is also on the rear of the building overlooking the garden rather than the street. Is all of this worth the extra $100,000 or so?
27 South Portland Avenue, #3 [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark





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Comments

I'll let the wags have their say and check the comments later.

Nice that it would have the morning sun and not overheat with afternoon sun in summer.

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at August 6, 2009 12:47 PM

I think this price is a misprint. I'm sure that the 3 and the 2 in the asking price should be switched around.


Posted by: josefsz at August 6, 2009 12:48 PM

275k

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 12:51 PM

Agree with josefsz
Seriously.. a "garden view" (watching others enjoy it outside your room?) is not worth $100K. $325K a room?

Posted by: BH76 at August 6, 2009 12:51 PM

I never understand when people go apeshit over the price of these studios.

325K (half a floor) times 2 equals 650K per floor.

That is approximately the going rate for a floor thru in this area, is it not? If you multiple 650K times 4 floors (like this house) that's 2.6 million.

A house like this would sell for around that price...no?

It makes sense to me, although I wouldn't pay 325K for this one. Maybe 300, and a pretty ok deal at 275.


Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 12:56 PM

a single room occupancy co-op. amazing

Posted by: jack slade at August 6, 2009 12:57 PM

This is just ridiculous. Who would pay so much to live in a room? You can rent a beautiful floor through in Fort Greene for $1700 to $2300.

Posted by: mopar at August 6, 2009 12:58 PM

Couldn't the agent sweep the floor so it doesn't look so dirty/dusty in the hallway pictures.

Posted by: DeLepp at August 6, 2009 12:59 PM

I guessed 250K
is it me or does that kitchen look reallly old and in bad shape?
and what about a pic of the bathroom or is that old too

Posted by: gemini10 at August 6, 2009 1:01 PM

With maintenance, this is $1840 a month.

That seems a tad high for the going rate for a rental here. But once you factor in the mortgage interest deduction, we're probably talking $1500 a month (I know I know...you still have to pay 1840, but I'm just sayin') in which case it's probably about the same cost to own as it is to rent.

I'd rather sink 1840 a month into owning something than to rent it. But that's just me.

Like I said, if you can get this for under 300K, you are paying less to own than to rent.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 1:02 PM

Am I reading this price, and the floorplan, right? It comes to $900 a square foot, and I'm being generous with the squar footage approximation. are you fk serious?

Posted by: iz at August 6, 2009 1:10 PM

Three hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars to live in a single room? You'd be better off renting a bedroom in an apartment share.

Posted by: Sparafucile at August 6, 2009 1:10 PM

P.S. The Griffin (which is right around the corner from here) REGULARLY sells studio apartments in the 275-325K range. I saw about 5 of them when I was looking...

And the maintenance is about $450-$550 a month there.

Just fyi.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 1:13 PM

But whoever said that mortgage plus maintenance should equal what you'd pay in rent? You're building equity here; in a rental you are not.

Of course, especially in NY, there are plenty of situations where it's smarter to rent than own.

But this is not one of those situations,nor are many that people call "stupid" on here.

Posted by: Nomi at August 6, 2009 1:15 PM

11217, think a very nice 2 family sold super quick on that blk. Corco listed it for $2.2M and suspect they got close to or dare I say over asking. So you're probably right on your math above. The only point I would add is I think people looking for family size houses are usually much more deep-pocketed and more willing to paid a premium vs. most studio buyers are more on the value-buyer side of the spectrum.

Posted by: more4less at August 6, 2009 1:17 PM

purely on the interior, the south oxford unit is more enticing to me - way nicer kitchen, bathrm, and walk-in closet. Not sure the higher ceiling, fancy mirror or facing garden (with this unit) is enough to offset the Oxford unit's interior

Posted by: more4less at August 6, 2009 1:20 PM

Studios in NYC almost always have a higher cost per square foot than apartments or homes of a larger size, M4L.

That's just the way it is.

I guess I have a different outlook on this stuff...I personally think this looks like a great pad. I have a million friends who pay $1500 each to share a 2 bedroom in Manhattan...many of whom would give their right tit to live alone, but simply don't have the downpayment.

If they did, they'd be all over this place.


Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 1:21 PM

Again, the big question is, can she sell it for what she paid in '05?
$290,000

I want someone to help me with the math here. How far under my purchase price can my sale price go before I really would have been better off renting? It is a bummer to lose money on real estate but if you figure she would have been paying $1500 for a comparable rental, lob off the maintenance, that means there's a good $54,000 she didn't spend on rent. Though she presumably did spend it on mortgage interest, right?

Posted by: serpentor at August 6, 2009 1:23 PM

Serpentor:

I think the 2005 price sounds about right. We are in the midst of a housing crash, afterall. If she gets more than 290K for this, then the bears on this board don't have too much to screech about.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 1:26 PM

Speaking of the Griffin, here is one at a lower price (but a higher maintenance) than this place, but it's bigger and has much more closet space. Views from the 9th floor too:

- http://bk.ly/kq

For about the same amount of space as the COTD, and a similar maintenance, this place clocks in at $50k less:

- http://bk.ly/kr

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 6, 2009 1:28 PM

Why isn't anyone responding to my excellent point? It's been like 15 minutes! I have things to do!

Posted by: Nomi at August 6, 2009 1:31 PM

serpentor, NYTimes has a great calculator for rent vs buy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/business/2007_BUYRENT_GRAPHIC.html?_r=1#

You can use the advance settings for maintenance/deductablility/tax bracket, etc...

Posted by: setancre at August 6, 2009 1:32 PM

Snark:

On that first one you highlighted in the Griffin, even with the lower asking price, the maintenance makes the place more expensive than this one at $1933 per month. Just fyi.

To me the Griffin was fine, but kinda dingy. A lot of the apartments in there needed upgrades to the kitchen and bath. And the view was nothing to write home about to me, but I'm not a view person.

I'd choose what looks to be a very pristine Brownstone co-op over the Griffin, any day. And I did, obviously. :)

I'd also rather pay a little more for the apartment to have a lower maintenance. But again, everyone is different.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 1:35 PM

11217, totally agree on a per sq ft on studios. My point is would that per sq ft premium be too big per this 325k asking price. I'm assuming some deep pocket people bought that south portland house I referenced (think it was a massive 4000 sq ft premo move-in beauty) at or a little above the 2.2M asking price. at the reverse math you calc'd (ie the 2.6M), is the 18% (2.6M vs. 2.2M) premium above an already premium price be too rich. Your 275k guess (ie reverse math of 2.2M) is more appropriate given the kitchen is so so, no pic of bathrm (ie so so at best)

Posted by: more4less at August 6, 2009 1:35 PM

We live across the street from this place, in a pretty damn nice parlor floor 2 bedroom, with a dishwasher, washer/dryer, and half of the garden. And we pay $2400. But, of course, I'm just an ignoramus who doesn't understand the value of owning an overpriced, crappy studio, with a "garden view."

Posted by: talknerdytome at August 6, 2009 1:38 PM

"Why isn't anyone responding to my excellent point? It's been like 15 minutes! I have things to do!" (me0

Ooo, too many exclamation marks. Horrors. No wonder no one's answering me .. . . .

Posted by: Nomi at August 6, 2009 1:40 PM

I hear ya, 11217.

What I like about this COTD: The fireplace, high ceilings.

What I don't like: Lack of closets, dingy kitchen, bars on the windows, dirty common hallway.

All of these comments are base solely on the the less-than spectacular photos.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 6, 2009 1:40 PM

yes. it will get very close to ask. so will yesterday's if widget predictive powers hold.

better block, higher ceiling, more original detail, rear facing. yes, it gets a 30% premium.

Posted by: antidope at August 6, 2009 1:45 PM

I'm not seeing the dirty hallways people are referring to. I'm seeing some sort of gorgeous tile or marble which looks stunning to me. The paintjob, bannister and everything else about the common area looks PRISTINE to me.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 1:52 PM

Nothing wrong with renting, especially in this economy, with layoffs forcing people to pick up and leave at the drop of a hat. Would HATE to be in that situation and stuck with a house to sell.

But, nerdy, I would make sure you don't bury all your cash in your landlord's pocket. One fine day you, like everyone else I know, will wake up with an inexpicable need to "own". No one knows why this happens -- much like marriage and children and all the rest of the crap that comes with the nesting thing, it just takes over and before you know it, you're panting over open house ads. I know, I know, you're "different." and maybe you are. But most people are just regular folk. We want to settle down and call it Home.

Posted by: iz at August 6, 2009 1:56 PM

TONY calls it the best block in NYC. Not Ft Greene. Not Brooklyn.

http://newyork.timeout.com/articles/features/4105/the-rankings-1-10

Posted by: antidope at August 6, 2009 1:59 PM

Sorry, Nomi, I was reading some other post!

I am not one of those people who believe rents always have to equal price or whatever, like BHO or Brickoven. BUT the idea of paying more than rent to live in one room just offends me. I guess it's more palatable if you'd consider living in one room in the first place.

But as far as building equity goes: You don't need to build equity to live in one room. You can rent all your life, then become a ward of the state and live in one room in senior housing paid for by the government. I don't see the difference.

The only reason to buy a studio is if it's all you can afford and you hope to sell it on the upswing, so you can use the equity to buy a bigger place.

Frankly, at this price, you could have your pick of decent apartments in good areas.

Posted by: mopar at August 6, 2009 1:59 PM

This reminds me of living in an SRO. This is terrible.

Posted by: mopar at August 6, 2009 2:00 PM

it IS an SRO. a STUPIDhead Residence Occupancy

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 6, 2009 2:04 PM

or a suckers residence occupancy

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 6, 2009 2:05 PM

"The only reason to buy a studio is if it's all you can afford and you hope to sell it on the upswing, so you can use the equity to buy a bigger place."


Yes, that's a big one. And lots of people do it.

Another reason is that once you hit the age of 30, a lot of people don't want to have roommates and living in a 1 bedroom rental is prohibitively expensive in this city in the good areas. (average 1 bedroom rental in Manhattan is currently $3100 per month). And buying a 1 bedroom is usually 400K or higher in any prime area.

So yes, a studio is a great stepping stone for many people, and it turns out that many people find that they enjoy living in small spaces and live in said studios for much longer than they ever thought.

I know people who have lived in NYC for 30 years and still live in a studio. It's really not all that uncommon.

Living in a 3000sf brownstone is uncommon, but some people here seem to have lost touch with reality just a wee bit.

Only in the U.S. is the notion of a small, functional apartments considered ghastly to so many people.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 2:05 PM

Rob,

Don't you basically live in one room? And how much do you pay to rent it per month?

If I remember correctly, this is barely a couple hundred more a month to own than you pay to rent something and share with someone else. And you're in your 30's, correct?

This might not be for you, but some people do enjoy having their own private space.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 2:07 PM


Rent vs. Own.

I also this is totally F-ing retarded what people pay to *rent* a tiny little box. So, yeah, BOTH sides of the equation need to go down. But guess what, totally foolish purchase prices drive totally foolish rental prices.

It's all just ridiculous.

Posted by: tybur6 at August 6, 2009 2:10 PM

> On that first one you highlighted in the Griffin, even with
> the lower asking price, the maintenance makes the place
> more expensive than this one at $1933 per month.

True enough, but given that it appears to be significantly larger, doesn't that make sense?

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 6, 2009 2:13 PM

Rodolfo will get ask for it. I've never worked with, nor do I know him, but he has an excellent track record. I'd be interested to what happens 3-6 months from now.

Posted by: MacD at August 6, 2009 2:14 PM

Tybur6, don't forget to buy lotto and I suggest the mega million one - think it's over 100M pot

Posted by: more4less at August 6, 2009 2:16 PM

I suppose so, Snark.

I just didn't love the Griffin enough to go for it (like I said, I looked at MANY apartments in that place). The apartments I saw were all larger than the one I bought, so clearly not everyone thinks bigger is better. The hallways in the Griffin smelled like cat piss and the lobby (although I heard it was about to be renovated) looked like a bomb shelter.

I'm just not into large buildings like that. I realized that during my search. I moved from Manhattan to Brooklyn to take advantage of the low-rise nature of Brownstone Brooklyn.

You seem to be more about space. I'm much more about the charm. And this one has a TON of charm.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 2:18 PM

11217, if i had my own apartment i actually WOULD want a studio. seriously! i wouldnt need much more room either!! i just think this one is hideous (looks like a granny crackden. seriously) and way overpriced, that's all.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 6, 2009 2:22 PM

more4less, I bought a couple of scratch tickets last night (along with an ice cream sandwich)... no luck. But you're right. I need to go bigger. Mega Millions it is!

Posted by: tybur6 at August 6, 2009 2:23 PM

Iz -- Not to worry. I don't consider myself different at all: I'm married, we're thinking kids (unspoiled, please), and I work a somewhat grinding job. I completely understand people's interest in owning, and I'd like to own, too. Just not a barebones studio on the same block I live on, for not that much less than I pay for an apartment that I love, with multiple amenities. And I'm perfectly aware that I'm financing my landlord's lifestyle (every time he says he's been in the Hamptons, I growl under my breath). But we also have substantial savings, and if I get laid off (and 5,000 lawyers have lost their jobs in this market), or if my husband gets a job in another city, we can leave.

Posted by: talknerdytome at August 6, 2009 2:25 PM

Granny crackden! lol

I don't agree, but love your description.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 2:25 PM

> You seem to be more about space. I'm much more about the charm

Yes, I am more about space. I paint and also have a lot of books, so I "need" a certain amount of space to live my life as I wish. I am also more interested in light than you, so a post-war building with a large wall of windows delights me.

PS: Yikes, what a lovely description of the Griffin.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 6, 2009 2:26 PM

11217, if you need to be in Manhattan to be close to work, you can find a bare-bones studio rental similar to this one for $1200 or $1300. You can also find a better place to buy in an area that is good without being fashionable. As for the liveability of studios, I could see buying one in a 20s or 30s apartment building -- it will have more square footage, a nice bathroom, a separate and nicer kitchen, and tons more storage place. This is a very expensive slum.

Posted by: mopar at August 6, 2009 2:44 PM

So when it's a studio, it's an expensive slum, and when it's a 2.2 million dollar brownstone, it's the parlor level and entryway into a multi-million dollar mansion.

Interesting.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 2:47 PM

Nerdy, so you've got it all figured out. Your place sounds fabulous, your life (lawyering excepted) even better, and you can look out your window and down your nose at the poor fool who'll actually buy that little studio and call it a home.

But whoever does that will always be one level cooler than you, in my book. Just cause they put their money where their ass is. I'll even help them decorate!

Posted by: iz at August 6, 2009 2:49 PM

What everyone seems to be missing about this particular parlor-floor studio is that it really isn't all that great: spare on the detail, crappy kitchen, no garden access. (And what about those shiny floors, Mr. B.? Yikes!) If it had a lot of original, unpainted wood, a nice kitchen and bath, and sole access to the garden, I could very well see paying $300k+ for it on that beautiful block.

Posted by: Park Sloper at August 6, 2009 3:08 PM

Of course, it's also way too small to raise a sophisticated child in. (Kidding!)

Posted by: Park Sloper at August 6, 2009 3:13 PM

Okay, I've let all the wags have their say.

Meanwhile, across the street, JA sold his 3-family house for over $3m. I think it was late in 2007...so I guess that was the height...?

Anyway, I can relate to Ditmas b/c my husband is an artist and you really do need room and light. Basically, when you're a visual artist, your studio needs to be a good workspace and if you have that workspace in your home, you need to make sure your cottage industry melds with your living space so that you're not sleeping or eating where you use chemicals or need to spread out over work areas/tables.

So, yes, an artist working at home usually needs more space. The husband unit has a studio outside the house in New England (where he does most of his work) and one in Brooklyn. And, sad to say, we're the denigrated Americans who live in too much space.

When we moved from Manhattan many years ago, it was from a "classic 10" or whatever they call it. My uncle managed to knock around in his Manhattan apartment that was nearly 5000 sq feet (yes) with more bathrooms than I can count for a long time before finally selling and moving (to Florida! Ugh! but that was years ago when people did that kind of thing). So I'm not totally out of touch with the burden of too much pointless space and really, really want to downsize. Not necessarily to a "Granny Crackden" (Rob, you sound like a true teenager with that one...and I resent the fact that "granny" had to be pulled into it!).

I was all for the studio on S. Oxford and this one on S. Portland isn't bad at all. I would love to have a simple space in NYC that doesn't require much commitment at all but know it's there if we're in the City. I keep thinking of moving entirely out-of-town but feel linked to Fort Greene. I think a small one-bedroom in Fort Greene would be our best bet. Just want to have 'age-in-place' living thinking toward the future (not so distant future).

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at August 6, 2009 3:15 PM

11217, what? Do you mean when it's a floor through apt for sale? It wouldn't be $2.2 million. And it would be more livable than this. This is not a reasonable place to live.

Posted by: mopar at August 6, 2009 3:17 PM

also it has that horrible criss cross square wood flooring that most projects have in them.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 6, 2009 3:17 PM

"This is not a reasonable place to live."


For you, maybe not. For me, I'd love it. Know a lot of people who would love it, in fact (A friend who I sent this listing to this morning has already called the broker, she loves it so much. And it's about 150K less than the couple places she looked at on the UWS which she said were smaller and total dumps).

And I was referring to the entire house, which would cost about 2.2 million (or so says ML4). If this were selling as a house, the parlor level is considered the best and most luxurious part, yet here you have called it a slum for some unknown reason.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 3:29 PM

Ah -- of course a parlor is the nicest part of a house. But to live in one room on the parlor floor is to live in a slum, an SRO. These houses literally were chopped up and turned into SROs back in the day when Fort Greene became a low-rent area. I don't see any difference between that and this, except this is priced as if it's luxury housing. Whereas there's nothing ridiculous about buying and living in a whole house.

Posted by: mopar at August 6, 2009 3:35 PM

rob - floors like in the projects? i've been in A LOT of projects all over manhattan and i don't recall ever seeing floors like that.

Posted by: bodhi_brooklyn at August 6, 2009 3:41 PM

So it's not for you, Mopar. I get it. Just like the shacks out in east Bushwick or Queens or wherever it is you seem to like aren't for me. Some people think location matters.

Clearly people DO like these places, or they wouldn't trade at a premium.

The average studio price in Manhattan is 600K.

I'm done defending this place. I have no doubt it will sell.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2009 3:42 PM

> The average studio price in Manhattan is 600K.

Perhaps, but is the average, no-frills, used-to-be-an-SRO 300sf studio cost that? Really? 2000/sf?

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 6, 2009 3:45 PM

This is an SRO, mopar? A slum? I don't think so- sro's are literally one room, galley (tiny) kitchen- on one wall and sometimes even a shared bathroom. I have never seen an SRO with beautiful, (and it looks like original) parquet floors, that unbelievable fireplace, and upgraded kitchen and bath. I can only wonder what you would have considered my Aunt's magical brownstone studio in the village that had a similar fireplace and mirror, floor to ceiling French windows, a tiny closet kitchen and tiny bath. I adored the place- and you would call that a slum too? A little ridiculous. Studio's work for some people- no need to insult them or this apartment. I'm with 11217 on this one. (Oh lord- is this where I scratch my eyes out with walnuts? :-)

Posted by: bxgrl at August 6, 2009 3:50 PM

Just to be clear- I'm not commenting on the pricing- that's not my area. I don't think it will sell for asking, but that doesn't make it a slum.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 6, 2009 3:53 PM

wouldn't all it SRO, ROb. This floor is only one divided into 2. Others seem to be full floor apts.

Posted by: Petebklyn at August 6, 2009 3:55 PM

quote:
When we moved from Manhattan many years ago, it was from a "classic 10" or whatever they call it. My uncle managed to knock around in his Manhattan apartment that was nearly 5000 sq feet (yes) with more bathrooms than I can count for a long time before finally selling and moving (to Florida! Ugh! but that was years ago when people did that kind of thing). So I'm not totally out of touch with the burden of too much pointless space and really, really want to downsize. Not necessarily to a "Granny Crackden" (Rob, you sound like a true teenager with that one...and I resent the fact that "granny" had to be pulled into it!).


cheeze its. i thought you were the resident hippie of this board. now youre boasting a classic 10 in manhattan, a place in new england, blah blah blah yeah youre green. well, maybe the only thing green is in your wallet!


*bitter party of one*
haha

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 6, 2009 4:12 PM

Back in 1998 I was in contract to purchase the apartment right above this floor. It was a 2 bedroom / 1 bath place. Really pretty, but the bedrooms were configured so you would have to walk thru one to get to rest of the apt.

They accepted my bid of $60,000 but we could not close because the co-op's financials were not in order. If I knew more about purchasing back then I am sure we could have figured something out, but alas not to be.

Posted by: bedstuy11216 at August 6, 2009 4:16 PM

I'm not buying it. This is what the SROs are like in Bushwick. I do believe location matters -- and in Brooklyn, you should have more space than this.

Posted by: mopar at August 6, 2009 4:18 PM

Now, I have nothing against buying a 2 bed/1 bath floor through in this building.

Posted by: mopar at August 6, 2009 4:20 PM

sorry i missed out on all the fun today on this thread. The thing most of you dont get is that a studio is always a bad thing to buy. They are very hard to move in a down market. Anybody catch that IYR trade?

Posted by: brickoven at August 6, 2009 4:24 PM

Here's that lovely $2.2M house sold on that blk fairly recently:

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1556856

Now, that parlor is real estate porn quality and can see why it sold so so quick

Posted by: more4less at August 6, 2009 4:29 PM

I think its worth 100,000 but the widget does not allow

Posted by: brickoven at August 6, 2009 4:31 PM

no way 100k. arent apts value when buying supposed to be 12 months worth of what youd pay in rent? that little studio should be 1300 a month in rent x 12 months = that studio should be 14,600.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 6, 2009 4:39 PM

who the hell would pay 1300 to live in that thing? More like 1000

Posted by: brickoven at August 6, 2009 4:45 PM

Rob, no. The standard valuation is approx 5 x the yearly rent. Another way to value it is the monthly cost should not be too much more than the monthly rent.

Also, you asked about foreclosures in another thread: Think of it as repossessing your car. You take out a loan (mortgage) secured by the house/car. They repossess it when you don't pay. You do technically still owe them if the sale comes up short, but I don't think they can collect it. Coops and condos can be foreclosed. In the case of coops, the coop gets first dibs on unpaid maintenance, and they can also reject the buyers as in any other coop sale.

Posted by: mopar at August 6, 2009 4:49 PM

Hey mopar we think you are being too hard on this place. You are correct it is overpriced but studios can be quite practical for some folks as 11217 has pointed out above. Also this is NOT an SRO in its current configuration plus the location is hands down one of the best in all of NYC in our opinion.
Slum ?? You are clearly exaggerating or maybe you've never been to the area. Have you been to a slum my dear?
As expensive as this is we are pretty confident it will sell quickly maybe for around $300k...South Portland Ave is just that special!

Posted by: pierre de taille at August 6, 2009 5:12 PM

Hey m4l that house is really beautiful and we heard there was a bidding "war" for it so most likely sold over asking price....yep deep pockets appreciate the location and luxury.

Posted by: pierre de taille at August 6, 2009 5:16 PM

if this place sells for over its going on my wall for years

Posted by: brickoven at August 6, 2009 5:31 PM

HI Pierre. I think what I mean is: This kind of studio is fine for the West Village, but in the context of Brooklyn, it appears substandard. Even in the West Village, though, I'd like it better if there were a sleeping alcove in what ought to be the third window (you know, above the backyard entrance) and if the apt entrance were oblique to the room -- so you have a little entry way.

Indeed, I am very familiar with slums and also Fort Greene :) which is a very nice neighborhood.

So anyway, I'm sure it will sell but this is not luxury housing and should not be priced so high.

Posted by: mopar at August 6, 2009 5:51 PM

Robert, I was pointing out that I'm not unfamiliar with living in what I now clearly understand IS too much space and why I am finding myself really appreciating the studios that are being shown the last couple of days. Of course, I cannot be sure, but at this point, if I end up living in a small apartment, I don't think I would really dream about going back to something bigger.

When I was "younger", well in my twenties (i.e. getting to be a l-o-n-g time ago...ugh), I lived in Europe and lived in big and small places. I guess Europe has gotten very expensive since then so things have probably changed a great deal in terms of rents, etc.

Anyway, I somehow managed to return to the States with a couple of big valises (more or less)...ah to be young and not have all the baggage that one accumulates! When I came back, I first moved into a small one-bedroom with what we used to all an "efficiency kitchen" on Broadway. It was a small but clean efficiency apartment with a small bedroom that was so small (and faced the street) that I actually used the living room as the bedroom so the kitchen/entryway was seen from the bed. I had some furniture from my mother and a girlfriend gave me a daybed...I didn't have much. We didn't have Ikea then (thank God!) but I somehow just accumulated things along the way and now it's in crisis mode.

I didn't particular "collect" things...stuff collected me! But the husband IS a collector (for his work especially) so every time I suggest we scale way down he wags his head in disbelief (probably because he doesn't think I can do it but also because he has a ton of stuff: the books, artwork, ceramics, his own work, materials, equipment, work tables, tools, stuff, stuff, stuff!)

Hhh...it's scary thinking about it. I have a feeling we'll never rid ourselves of this. Some museums (if we don't have a huge cataclysm and there are still museums down the road) will be happy enough to take some of it off our hands, just some... but at some point if he can no longer handle making his art, someone will have to figure out what to do with all the stuff. I hope we can find a school that might take things. If I'm alive, we'll have to make a decision together...who knows...

Sure we generally need cloth for clothing, shelter and food, but why on earth we have this compulsion to both accumulate and also to create more objects will probably never be fully explained to my satisfaction. Ah, humans...

Mopar, there are some very dreary, poorly maintain studios in the Village. In fact, all over NYC there are dreadful places.

I'm not sure why everyone seems rather clueless about SROs. Look Single Room Occupancy rooms are just that: a room. Bathroom on the floor on down on the next floor shared with others. A musician friend of mine lived in an SRO on the Upper Westside. He passed away years ago. Great jazz musician. As I remember he was supposedly not even allowed to cook in his SRO room. Everyone in the building had a hotplate but I think it wasn't supposedly allowed.

Kids, years ago, life in NYC was a little different. There was relatively cheap food, diners, joints, a lot of working people (men *and* woman too) mostly single, would live as a boarder or in an SRO and not have access to a kitchen. This was normal. You managed. You had meals out and cold food in. I guess today, someone could very well do the same but I don't think there are many places without kitchens...and the cost of food seems higher to me...and rent is higher...

You used to be able to make a lower-end wage and save something and still be decently turned out on the street, and have a little pocket money. I knew many young men years ago who lived in a boarding house situation, had a job, ate out (and drank) and managed fine, and saved money. From what I can tell now, only people at a certain salary level can save at all. Even at what seems like a decent salary, the take home pay after taxes, health insurance pay-ins, etc. leaves most people just enough for the rent and the bare essentials. Am I wrong? It seems the Great Room/McMansion Era has helped ruin people's expectations as well so they are not willing to live in a studio like the one featured today.

It may not be huge but it could be very lovely. The kitchen looks like a recent renovation. The countertop could stand to be sanded. Maybe a small fridge can replace the big one so the counter to can have a small peninsula. The wall where there was once were closets (the area to the left of the windows) is set back and has a different flooring pattern. I would suggest the next person think about a wall of built-ins to greatly increase the storage space. There is all sorts of new furniture, I think mostly coming out of Europe, particularly Italy, that can conceal beds. Basically, there are these new Murphy bed types that are more sophisticated and let you have shelving on one side. The whole shelving unit pivots, a bed on the other side is like Murphy bed. Brilliant. I would put a desk in the arch on the back wall and keep an eye out for fully mirrored furniture (obviously the nicer stuff, not simple Ikea wardrobes with mirrors on the front).

It's too bad the studio couldn't be completely, tastefully decorated and "staged" for the photos/open house...I guess it doesn't "pay" for an apartment this size but I'm sure it would probably help sell it.

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at August 6, 2009 7:22 PM

Okay everyone, this is my apartment! Thank you for your comments. :)

Here is my .02 and some background info:

The hallway floors are being redone, hence the "dirty" appearance of the photo. It's just to show that the hallway is, in fact, being redone. And the place is empty because the floors were just redone and the walls painted, and I moved out for love. It doesn't need to be staged--it is what it is, half a parlor for someone to build a sleep loft / storage units to their own taste, or leave it as is.

I'm not taking a hit--I'm testing the market because I moved. As a regular reader, I'm generally tired of commenters not making intelligent, realistic comments about the market. Studios in this neighborhood aren't going for 100K, period. How much do you pay in rent, brickoven?

Maintenance does greatly affect the affordability of a place, and this one is not going up anytime soon (the mortgage is about paid off.) Do I feel excruciating pain knowing that mansions in Indianapolis go for this price? Of course. Yes, it's screwed up that a room in New York costs six figures, but we live in NYC and prices are higher here. And yes, it's not the most ideal layout, but such is brownstone living. The ceilings are 13 feet high and it feels like Paris. For those who can't imagine suffering such indignities, the Toren awaits with open arms.

Owning this place cost me the same as renting the even smaller, Home Depot-tastic Boerum Hill studio I was in before, and parlor studio rentals like this on a block like this are now going for $1550-1800 a month if you look on Craigslist.

So, Nomi, you do make a lot of sense--your reasoning was mine when I bought the place.

Also, this is not an SRO, it's a coop with two studios and the rest 1-2 BRs, and the neighbors are some of the loveliest people I know. When studios are outgrown, they can be used for all sorts of things, or rented out. They will always appeal to first-time buyers.

Besides, Fort Greene is a much better place to live than the West Village. Would anyone on here disagree?

Posted by: babygreene at August 6, 2009 9:55 PM

Also, there is a closet, which is a normal-sized closet for one person! The floor is original, and the kitchen and bath were renovated in 2005 before I bought it. Not sure why bathroom is not shown, but it's modern, tasteful, and yes, quite petite.

The bars will come off but only if the buyer wants them to :)

Sorry to shill, just offering all relevant information. My comments will hereby be restricted to Wburg condo trash-talking.

Posted by: babygreene at August 6, 2009 10:05 PM

You go BabyGreene!
:-)
I think your studio is very nice! Don't think my daydreaming of how to decorate is a dig of any kind. I was just thinking the wall that used to have closets on one side of the room would make a great storage wall with one of those new Murphy bed with space for a home office behind doors.
I guess you moved all your things out but maybe one basic chair in the space would help give a sense of the scale. I love those high ceilings on South Portland!

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at August 6, 2009 11:18 PM

i am sorry there is absolutely no confidence whatsoever in saying "i own a room"...lie to yourselves if you must but who buys a room???

Posted by: aj at August 6, 2009 11:23 PM

"i am sorry there is absolutely no confidence whatsoever in saying "i own a room"...lie to yourselves if you must but who buys a room???"

Huh?

Posted by: Nomi at August 7, 2009 12:44 AM

is there a washer and dryer in this brownstone building that i will be able to utilize along with my $325,000 room?

Posted by: aj at August 7, 2009 10:25 AM

"Kids, years ago, life in NYC was a little different. There was relatively cheap food, diners, joints, a lot of working people (men *and* woman too) mostly single, would live as a boarder or in an SRO and not have access to a kitchen. This was normal. You managed. You had meals out and cold food in. I guess today, someone could very well do the same but I don't think there are many places without kitchens...and the cost of food seems higher to me...and rent is higher..."

BrookynGreene, I think your post is very interesting. There are still people doing essentially this in NYC, but it's not the middle-class norm. (I'm not judging it, just reporting.) Much more typical and socially acceptable is to split an apartment with roommates.

This change seems to have come about in the 1960s. I'm not sure why.

Also, SROs used to be much more prevalent in San Francisco. There are statistics about how the city has lost xxx (a lot) units of housing and people cite this to explain why the city is so expensive. In fact, the units they lost are SROs, which almost do not exist anymore -- mostly in the Tenderloin, the once-equivalent of the once-Bowery.

Posted by: mopar at August 7, 2009 11:22 AM

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