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August 12, 2009

Closing Bell: (Astro)turf War

An incensed mother, whose daughter was struck by an errant soccer ball, complained to the Brooklyn Eagle that the south side of Cadman Plaza Park is overrun with soccer games that take place "seven days a week, from morning to night." Athletics used to wear away the natural grass on this side of the park, causing locals to call it the "Dust Bowl." Recently, the city installed artificial turf, which has received a generally positive response, but now raises the athletes vs. children debate. The Brooklyn Heights Association receives many similar complaints from people who fear for kids' safety, but find the north side of the park too bumpy and, well, covered in dog poop. Yet other residents informally surveyed by the Eagle didn't see a conflict at all. None of the other interviewees believed that athletics occur 24/7, and they have no issue with coexisting. "People should be allowed to play,” said a local caretaker who uses the park. "If we really object, we can move to the smaller park, or use the grass when it’s quiet like now... It’s an open park, you know?"
Soccer Players vs. Tots at Cadman Plaza Park [Brooklyn Eagle]
Turf War over Brooklyn Heights' Cadman Park [McBrooklyn]
Photo from the NYC Department of Parks & Recreation

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Comments

As Winston Churchill believed, people may get knocked over by their ball games but boys must have their fun.

This nation is going to be a bunch of wimps if we keep coddling kids all their lives...we'll be another Euro-style non-aspiring-to-greatness loser country.

Ok, out-of-place rant over.

Posted by: infinitejester at August 12, 2009 4:04 PM

Can't they just sit outside the range of the ball?? JFC.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 12, 2009 4:07 PM

oh heaven's to betsey no! getting hit by a soccer ball? lol.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 12, 2009 4:08 PM

this has been gone over again and again here and on the brooklyn heights blog. the issue is the soccer players take over the whole field, so no, JFC, they can't sit outside the range of the ball unless you mean they can go home. they need to set up times for kids and times for the soccer players.

Posted by: Ringo at August 12, 2009 4:11 PM

i think people on a soccer team have more rights to an astroturfed field than a bunch of spoiled ankle biters.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 12, 2009 4:14 PM

maybe. but do they have exclusive rights? that's the issue because when they come on, they kick everyone else off. I've seen people say, no, we were here first and the soccer players will literally start playing around them -- and they're decent players running fast, kicking like they mean it.

Posted by: Ringo at August 12, 2009 4:18 PM

hmmm i guess that is kind of obnoxious. now im loling at them saying to each other hey guys lets play a little game of kick the crotchfruit!

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 12, 2009 4:23 PM

Aren't these local schools, like St. Anne's? And they are definitely not there all day every day. Look at the people in the photo, they are not 'athletes' they are children. Jeez!

Yes they can sit outside the range of the ball. There is nothing there! No shade. No benches. No nuttin'!

Posted by: denton at August 12, 2009 4:25 PM

Why are they playing soccer anyway? What happened to baseball?!?! Is this America or what???

Posted by: East New York at August 12, 2009 4:28 PM

issue isn't the kids who use the playgrounds. photo is not representative of the situation

Posted by: Ringo at August 12, 2009 4:30 PM

Damn adults being mean to children! Shouldn't they be working anyway!

Posted by: tybur6 at August 12, 2009 4:37 PM

I think the people who deliver food, rehab houses at $15/hour, take care of other people's kids while the parents are earning six figures, sit outside bodegas all night long and in the winter time, deserve to run around the damn field all they want.

Posted by: talknerdytome at August 12, 2009 4:48 PM

What's up with these idiot parents? In very short walking distance from Cadman Plaza are at least two excellent playgrounds, designed with young children in mind! When I was towing around my young children, if I encountered a park filled with flying projectiles, I WENT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Posted by: Brooklyn Chicken at August 12, 2009 4:52 PM

talknerdy, the guys (and gals) who take over the park mid-day everyday for soccer are attorneys. perhaps the take care of your children, but that's a different issue.

Posted by: Ringo at August 12, 2009 5:14 PM

There is also a tremendous amount of real grass at either sides off from the central area-more grass than there was before with sitting areas. My son played baseball there. If you think a soccer ball is dangerous...baseballs are much worse.

Posted by: smeyer418 at August 12, 2009 5:56 PM

The park has a whole other side to it, on the other side of the memorial, and no games happen there. It's also grass, not potentially carcinogenic little rubber pellets and plastic grass, so probably safer for kids. Obviously the field where they play soccer was astroturfed to deal with heavy use. With another side NOT astroturfed for heavy use, it seems like there really should be enough space for everyone and their various uses, no?

Posted by: GoGoMrPoPo at August 12, 2009 5:56 PM

I know a couple of the guys who play soccer there, a contractor's assistant, and a super of a local apt building where I am sure some of these concerned parents dwell. The soccer players kids also go to p.s.8 and play in that park too.

Posted by: lifer at August 12, 2009 6:33 PM

eff them and their dumb kids. i played in p.park and ppl got upset b/c we took up "their space", so rangers cracked down and moved us. these people want every desolate space to themselves. they dont watch their kids b/c theyre busy chatting bout inane sh.t, and their kids wander away into a group of guys playing. i say fine the incompetent parents. a.holes.

Posted by: goldie at August 12, 2009 7:51 PM

THERE'S A CHILDREN'S PARK ON THE PROMENADE YOU MORON.

you can walk their with your children swingin' from your mammories.

GOD.

Welcome to Brooklyn

Posted by: ftgreenepark at August 12, 2009 7:51 PM

The real grass is full of dog poop and thus not attractive.

I dont really have a pony in this race. I got kids, dogs, soccer players all living in my house. But the present laissez-faire policy isn't working. People have to pick up the dog shit. People can't just waltz onto a playing field and kick the entire field of kids off so you can set up your plastic cones and play your games. Parents can't expect it to be for the toddler set all the time. They're going to have to police the off-leash hours and set up some time for the soccer players and some time for the kids.

Posted by: Ringo at August 12, 2009 7:54 PM

here's the policy then: flat ground for sports. hills for unsupervised spawns of i-had-kids-because-i-turned-45-but-they-cramp-my-style-so-someone-else-please-watch-them moms.

done.

Posted by: goldie at August 12, 2009 8:28 PM

Last time I was there (admttedly in June), the grassy side was not full of dog *&^%. And to correct a few incorrect statements here, PS 8 has no organized play in Cadman--on either side of the memorial building. Maybe kids playing there over the summer are PS8 students, but they're not there by direction of PS 8. St Ann's DOES indeed take over the astroturf side every afternoon with the big kids about 3:00 pm, just as younger St Ann's kids take over Pierrepont Playground (the one adjoining the Promenade) every Mon-Fri mid-day. Toddlers from ILC (day-care/pre-school on Monroe Place) also come into Pierrepoint most days. AND, in addition, older kids from the Atlantic Avenue Y summer camp visit State Street Playground most weekdays, although it's a pretty pathetic place for them. They sit on the equipment and behave themslelves, although the little kids then can't play there. AND the big kids aren't getting any exercise either!

Parks needs to set up times for different groups at Cadman, at least until Walt Whitman Park's re-do nearby is finished. Parks should also ticket non-picker-uppers on the grass side of the park.

While there are playgrounds to play in for smaller children, it's not the same as wide open space to run in.
The Cadman difficulty arises because the Parks Dept won't permit, ie officially block out time, for any group. So there's a de facto takeover by larger groups on a regular basis. Short of a "play-in," with little kids and parents outnumbering big kids, this situation seems largely insoluble. Long-term, one major answer would be an aditional (besides 360 Furman) housing-free, ball-playing-friendly, Brooklyn Bridge Park.

Posted by: bklyn20 at August 12, 2009 8:34 PM

bklyn20 - even with the housing, there are still three astroturf soccer fields planned for Brooklyn Bridge Park, and I think I remember reading that those feilds will open up in about 2 years. Also, the housing (except 360 Furman) doesn't reallt take up that much space. Even if you took away all of the housing, you wouldn't have gained enough space to add back even one whole soccer field.

Posted by: bkre at August 12, 2009 11:54 PM

My kid and I play wiffle ball fairly often on the north side, with the natural grass. It's a little patchy, but never had a problem with dog crap. Yeah, the soccer games are pretty intense, but walking around the war memorial takes all of three minutes.

Posted by: BklynJace at August 13, 2009 11:47 AM

I'm a soccer player in the neighborhood who loves playing games at Cadman Plaza. I'm also sensitive to the fair use of space and to the little kids and their parents who want to play in the park.

A few points:
1) Yes, little kids can play in other places - the natural grass areas, the north side, playgrounds, DUMBO, etc. The soccer games just can't do that. Is the south side better for certain things? Yes. But, as other posters have noted, you can do lots of things - whiffleball, frisbee, general horsing around - in other areas.

2) I agree that the soccer players should try to be accommodating to other people who want to use the park. I generally play Saturday morning, which is a game that's fairly mellow, adult and makes a point of leaving 1/3 of the south field free for families. Honestly, there aren't usually that many family groups wanting to use the field between 9 a.m. and noon on a Saturday, and this seems to work out fine.

3) I don't agree that small groups of little kids and their parents have some kind of inherent right to demand use of the entire field when there are 20-30+ other people who want to use it. If you want insurance that no soccer ball could ever hit your child, I think that's an unreasonable expectation in a mixed-use park like this.

I know the soccer players can be jerks sometimes, and I doubt this problem will have a resolution unless some authority steps in. My two cents is that tense co-existence is probably going to be the reality until more fields open up.

Try to talk it out, folks. If that doesn't work ... fume?

Posted by: JKB at August 13, 2009 12:34 PM

To bkre -- The housing issue is not related to the size of the land they take up. The housing's residents will want to determine what activities go on in the park -- do you see much organized or unorganized sports play in Barttey Park City? It's natural for homeowners to want to control their front yard, but it's also contradictory to the purpose of public parkland. This is the reason that there's no housing in 99% of parks around the world.

Posted by: bklyn20 at August 13, 2009 6:43 PM

« Fire at 130 Lefferts Place Wednesday Blogwrap »

August 12, 2009

Closing Bell: (Astro)turf War

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