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August 19, 2009

All Is Revealed at Avalon Fort Greene

Avalon Fort Greene, the 650-unit rental building we've been tracking since it was a hole in the ground, must be getting close to launch because its listings just hit the web; you can check out the developer's website for layouts and pricing or StreetEasy for some photos of the model apartment. Pricing starts at just under $2,000 for studios and goes up to over $5,000 a month for three-bedrooms.
Avalon Fort Greene Coverage [Brownstoner] GMAP

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quote:
$5,000 a month for three-bedrooms

mind-boggling. you can find a 3 bedroom in the heart of soho or the west village for that price.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 19, 2009 10:17 AM

Yeah Rob - 5k will have you livin large pretty much anywhere - not sure what sets the Avalon in downtown brooklyn apart.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at August 19, 2009 10:20 AM

"You're fooling yourself if you don't believe it
You're kidding yourself if you don't believe it
Get up, get back on your feet
You're the one they can't beat and you know it
Come on, let's see what you've got
Just take your best shot and don't blow it..."

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 19, 2009 10:25 AM

These prices do seem high but I wouldn't bet against Avalon. They have a pretty good track record at this stuff. I think the building's looking pretty nice too.

Posted by: lowintheheights at August 19, 2009 10:27 AM

oh sure.... 5k will get you central park views from 5th avenue in nice classic 6.

Check Avalon's prices for Bowery - 2 bedrooms start at $5225.

Posted by: Petebklyn at August 19, 2009 10:28 AM

quote:
Check Avalon's prices for Bowery - 2 bedrooms start at $5225.

and that is equally as insane. but i guess there is a market for insane people out there. tho i guess if i was rich i wouldnt care how much my rent was.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 19, 2009 10:29 AM

I think the rents are too high as well, but keep in mind two things. 1) Search streeteasy for 3 bedrooms. There are very few priced much less than this in the area. For someone that "needs" 3 bedrooms, supply is limited. 2) This are the gross rents and probably don't reflect that they are likely to offer 1 or 2 months free like almost every other rental building. If they do, the net effective rent for a $5,000 unit is under $4,200. Still not cheap, but much closer to "reality".

Posted by: bdeis01 at August 19, 2009 10:32 AM

With the amount of rental units coming online in downtown Brooklyn, does anybody really believe they will get these prices?

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 19, 2009 10:32 AM

i am not renting anything for $5,000 a month. i can easily own for that amount. and dont throw location or anything like that in the mix....i'll get a 3 bdrm with finished basement and backyard for that price in queens, staten island, the bronx, or another part of brooklyn.

Posted by: aj at August 19, 2009 10:38 AM

and a driveway too

Posted by: aj at August 19, 2009 10:38 AM

From the Avalon website:

For those inspired by the excitement and opportunity of everyday life, welcome to youtopia. More than a lifestyle, Avalon Fort Greene offers the perfect backdrop for you to be you.

Seriously, where do I vomit?

Posted by: tinarina at August 19, 2009 10:40 AM

Avalon does have a good track record, so I have no doubt they will fill this up.

Are some of you starting to understand the cost of market rate housing in the city yet?

Yes, Bowery Avalon does charge almost 5K for a 2 bedroom. And they get it. And most people who live there are under 40.

Makes a little more sense why someone might want to buy what many of you considered an obscenely overpriced studio in Ft. Greene a couple weeks ago to pay 1800 a month to live alone, no?

Posted by: 11217 at August 19, 2009 10:40 AM

Well - 5k for a 3 bedroom doesn't seem like they are marketing to families, more likely as shares to young professionals on wall street.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at August 19, 2009 10:42 AM

Also - prices are STARTING at 5060 for a three bedroom. Avalon uses a formula for every floor up from the ground floor your apt is. I think it's an extra 20 bucks per month per floor.

This is what I encountered when looking at the Avalon building in LIC a while back. A one bedroom facing the water with a balcony on the 35th floor was 3,200 a month.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at August 19, 2009 10:48 AM

"Fabulous 3 Bedroom/2 Bathroom apartment in a luxury building with business facilities located right on Wall Street!"

- http://tungstenproperty.com/listings/view/4930

$5,150.

Still think $5000 is going to fly in downwtown Brooklyn?

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 19, 2009 10:50 AM

quote:
Seriously, where do I vomit?

where all the other former frat boys who infest Avalon buildings vomit? the stairwell.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 19, 2009 10:52 AM

aj - for $5000 you can get a nice 3br in the bronx and have $3300 left over.....

that being said - why do you people get pissed where they price their listings if they are too steep they wont rent, and then they'll lower the price, and if they get their asking - then I guess that is what it is worth (to the renters) - I truly do not understand why people get so hostile

Posted by: fsrg at August 19, 2009 10:52 AM

"I truly do not understand why people get so hostile"

Because they can't afford it.

Posted by: 11217 at August 19, 2009 10:57 AM

quote:
I truly do not understand why people get so hostile

it's like if one day the entire donut business decided, hey, let's all charge 15 dollars per donut thinking well they are crazy people out there who will still need to get their donut fix. it's annoying!

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 19, 2009 10:59 AM

Over 2000 rental apts coming online in downtown Brooklyn in the next 6 months alone! They will be empty for a long long time priced like that. Maybe they will give 3 free months?

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 11:01 AM

Rob - this is one building - not the entire donut industry - and if by chance the entire donut industry did illegally collude to charge $15 per - you can eat Tasty Cakes until they are forced to retreat.....

I mean really...how unrealistic and out-of-touch can you be.

Besides the old adage - "the best cure for high prices is.....high prices"

Posted by: fsrg at August 19, 2009 11:06 AM

$2K for studio or share? I tried to keep open mind (views, W/D and D/W in unit, valet parking - though extra) but the economic system is collapsing all around us. A responsible tenant would need to be in the six figures to pay 33% on such units. Six figures and you're living in a studio or sharing above Applebees and Juniors?! You can get this in Manhattan and don't give me that crap about Disnification - it's happening (or trying to happen) in Brooklyn too.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 19, 2009 11:22 AM

Owning is always better than renting.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 11:24 AM

As usual, I'm in agreement with BHO on this one!!!!!!! :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 11:27 AM

Downtown Brooklyn was made for people who were priced out of Manhattan. The entire segment is now gone and people are being priced into Manhattan. Its like a little Miami right n Flatbush Ave. There is zero market to fill up these buidings ie Forte

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 11:28 AM

Oro and that Skidmore building will compete heavily with this (yeah, shadow rental inventory, sub fitty sold). But Avalon is beating them to the punch so they might do okay for one year.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 19, 2009 11:46 AM

I agree these prices are insane, but with 3 colleges including NYU/POLY in walking distance I don't see a problem with them being filled up.

Posted by: ReMiXxd at August 19, 2009 11:48 AM

"Fabulous 3 Bedroom/2 Bathroom apartment in a luxury building with business facilities located right on Wall Street!"- http://tungstenproperty.com/listings/view/4930 -
$5,150. Still think $5000 is going to fly in downwtown Brooklyn?"

Actually, YES! (With the understanding that BOTH of these prices are likely to come down some.)

Downtown Brooklyn is actually a better residential location than Wall Street, even -- or especially -- for someone who works on Wall Street. It enables someone who works in the Financial District to be really close to work without living and working in the same neighborhood 24/7. And though I wouldn't personally want to live in a high rise on Gold Street (I'm a brownstoner, after all), I can see the attraction for a young investment banking associate who wants to share this type of place. You're 10 minutes from work, and 10 minutes from all of the food, drink and culture that Fort Greene has to offer.

BHO is right that a "responsible tenant would need to be in the six figures to pay 33% on such units," but keep in mind that there are still plenty of folks, even very young folks, making six figures in NYC.

Posted by: Park Sloper at August 19, 2009 11:53 AM

BHO - actually you would need to make 72K for a 2k/mo studio at 33%

Posted by: fsrg at August 19, 2009 11:55 AM

This building is geared to the young higly paid professional who needs a full service building with a gym where everything is taken care of and life can work even though you don't have a spouse who stays at home and sometimes you work until 3 am. People pay for buildings that make that all work. I lived for a year at The Ocean on Battery Park, so I know the drill. The big question mark is whether there are still enough of those people to fill up a building like this. I doubt it. This development made sense at pre-crash NYC yuppie employment levels. I know a lot of people who live in buildings like this in Manhattan and vacancy is WAY up as all of the laid off single 20 something bankers pack up and go home to live with mom and dad.

Posted by: lechacal at August 19, 2009 11:56 AM

fsrq, I think you're really giving the benefit of the doubt to people making $72k with that assessment. I suspect that the vast majority of them have credit card debt up the whazoo as well.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 11:57 AM

"as all of the laid off single 20 something bankers pack up and go home to live with mom and dad."

Come on. You know that's not true.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/18/best-and-worst-cities-to_n_262078.html

Posted by: 11217 at August 19, 2009 11:59 AM

> Downtown Brooklyn is actually a better residential location
> than Wall Street, even -- or especially -- for someone who
> works on Wall Street.

The young Wall Streeters for whom these buildings are designed DON'T LIVE IN BROOKLYN. Not at these prices. They live in Manhattan. Period. End of story.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 19, 2009 12:01 PM

Agree. These are Manhattan prices. Why live at this location for these prices. That particular area isn'r even a "neighborhood" which is the "feel" that people come to Brooklyn for anyway.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 12:04 PM

I wonder what the Jackasses are going to say next year?

The What (Ker-Boom)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at August 19, 2009 12:05 PM

"BHO - actually you would need to make 72K for a 2k/mo studio at 33%"

Six figure gross.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 19, 2009 12:07 PM

"The young Wall Streeters for whom these buildings are designed DON'T LIVE IN BROOKLYN. Not at these prices. They live in Manhattan. Period. End of story."

Ding Ding Ding!

Plus you can walk to your job in FIDI!!!! Why in the F**** someone would pay 5k a month for Downtown Brooklyn??????!!!!

11217, Antidope and Dibs are delusional Jackasses!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at August 19, 2009 12:08 PM

"The young Wall Streeters for whom these buildings are designed DON'T LIVE IN BROOKLYN. Not at these prices. They live in Manhattan. Period. End of story."

Ding Ding Ding!

Plus you can walk to your job in FIDI!!!! Why in the F**** someone would pay 5k a month for Downtown Brooklyn??????!!!!

11217, Antidope and Dibs are delusional Jackasses!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at August 19, 2009 12:08 PM

BHO - FYI - the 30% figure, in terms of standards of affordability is for GROSS income

Posted by: fsrg at August 19, 2009 12:13 PM

Read my post, moron.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 12:14 PM

11217 - Trust me, they do. This is my tribe, so to speak.

Posted by: lechacal at August 19, 2009 12:18 PM

Fine, fsrq. Even worse for $72K/yr. Hardly enough wiggle room for lifestyle and savings (retirement, rainy day AND downpayment for purchase). If I grossed 72, I wouldn't be blowing half of it on housing. No way! And as this depression deepens, I don't think such salaried folk will either if they are so lucky to have a job.

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 19, 2009 12:26 PM

the only wall street people who would live in these buildings are the back office people who work in metrotech. Most of them make 50-60 a year. Our company got an inside deal for our new hires at Silver Towers. we like our guys to get laid :)

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 12:32 PM

@fsrq: not being hostile at all, i just think that that kind of apartment isnt worth the money...i believe in bang for your buck...and whats the point of living with 2 roommates...if i'm making that kind of money, surely i can find a studio or 1 bdrm for $2000 in a decent area. not that downtown brooklyn isnt decent, but i highly doubt that the people moving into this building would even brave going to a store on myrtle avenue.

i'm an owner by the way. not stating it to sound snooty or anything but just wanted to clear any assumptions.

Posted by: aj at August 19, 2009 12:38 PM

"the only wall street people who would live in these buildings are the back office people who work in metrotech."

WRONG

"The young Wall Streeters for whom these buildings are designed DON'T LIVE IN BROOKLYN"

WRONG

"These are Manhattan prices. Why live at this location for these prices."

RIGHT

Posted by: lechacal at August 19, 2009 12:40 PM

The notion that young Wall Streeters don't live in Brooklyn is absurd.

On my commute every morning, I'd say AT LEAST 50% of those who get on at Grand Army Plaza, Bergen, Hoyt, Nevins, Borough Hall and Clark get off at Wall Street.

Posted by: 11217 at August 19, 2009 12:44 PM

lechacal of course its true. Cant pick a girl up in the meatpacking and bring here back to Brooklyn! Thats what our guys want who are in there twenties and thats what I wanted to

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 12:47 PM

Not all people who get off the subway at Wall Street are "Wall Streeters."

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 12:47 PM

11217 you're pulling our chains here

Posted by: aj at August 19, 2009 12:49 PM

brickoven, by the time they agree to go home with you they must be three sheets to the wind. You could bring them to canarsie & they wouldn't know!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 12:49 PM

Why anyone making $72K gross would pay $2K for a studio in downtown Brooklyn is totally beyond me. The same person can get a one-bedrooom somewhere nice for much less. As BHO pointed out, that's a lot of money that could be going to a down payment, savings, travel, or just enjoying life.

Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at August 19, 2009 12:50 PM

11217 there is no real money actually being made on Wall Street you dope. The Money on Wall Street is now made in the Plaza district!

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 12:53 PM

That is true, Dave...they are not all Wall Streeters...

But the 25 year old guys wearing suits and Farragamo's sure look like it to me.

It's not the full 50%, but there are a number of them.

Posted by: 11217 at August 19, 2009 12:56 PM

If they're wearing Farragamo's they probably work at J & R.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 12:59 PM

11217 you are kidding here right?

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 1:00 PM

I don't know what you all think constitutes a "Wall Streeter." Are you expecting Charlie Sheen from Wall Street? 11217 is completely right, at least in this respect. A guy across the street from me runs the derivatives desk at a major bank. My downstairs neighbor is a banker with GS. I'm a "Wall Street" lawyer. Granted we're all family people, so if the point is that 20 something idiots who pay $500 for table service so they can get brief access to someone's vagina live in Manhattan, well yes, that's where those people live, but that doesn't mean there aren't Wall Streeters in Brooklyn.

Posted by: lechacal at August 19, 2009 1:03 PM

Dave the way it use t work was that if you wanted t have all options you had to live someplace below 96 th street in Manhattan. There are a lot of snobby girls out there at the bars that we use to go to.

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 1:04 PM

"Dave the way it use t work was that if you wanted t have all options you had to live someplace below 96 th street in Manhattan."

That's only cause it would have taken all night to get to Brooklyn via horse and buggy.

Posted by: 11217 at August 19, 2009 1:06 PM

Brickoven, I hear you. I used to live on the UES on 54th Street.

With the full fledged availability of anything online though, I haven't picked up anyone in a bar in many years. And, they guys will come to Brooklyn. LOL

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 1:07 PM

quote:
But the 25 year old guys wearing suits and Farragamo's sure look like it to me.

seriously, i NEVER see that during any of my rush hour commutes. am i taking the creative professional express and dont know it!?

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 19, 2009 1:10 PM

"Granted we're all family people, so if the point is that 20 something idiots who pay $500 for table service so they can get brief access to someone's vagina live in Manhattan"

Quote of the century.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at August 19, 2009 1:12 PM

lol dave.

i think bar skanks are better than online skanks tho.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 19, 2009 1:12 PM

And, I'll bet those suits are from "Today's Man."

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 1:13 PM

Rob, we take the same train, same station, just opposite ends of the platform. Almost sounds like a meaningful metaphor.

Posted by: lechacal at August 19, 2009 1:13 PM

Everybody knows the real action is in the last car.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 1:14 PM

But DIBS Rob goes to the front of the train and I'm all the way at the back, and he's gay and I'm straight.

Posted by: lechacal at August 19, 2009 1:15 PM

i think bar skanks are better than online skanks tho.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 19, 2009 1:12 PM

Truer words were never spoken.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 1:15 PM

11217 I am 32 years old! Who the hell lives in NYC and does not know that "Wall Streeters" dont work on wall street? I will tell you who, the guy who purchased a studio and thinks he got his piece of the pie.

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 1:17 PM

> Quote of the century.

Ditto that. And it still proves my fundamental thesis.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 19, 2009 1:19 PM

At least I'm happy BO.

All you do is bitch and moan.

Posted by: 11217 at August 19, 2009 1:20 PM

Dave is the last car thing only for gay people?

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 1:20 PM

wall streeters dont work on wall street?!

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 19, 2009 1:21 PM

NO, brickoven. It's very mixed. All the fun people always ride in the last car and the back of the bus.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 1:24 PM

Very few actually work on Wall Street.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 1:25 PM

Rob - Very little of the financial services industry is on Wall Street itself. What is there, Deutshe Bank... some small broker-dealer offices...some rental apartments....a retail Citbank branch way on the other side of Water Street... There is much more going on in midtown. Heck, even the NYSE is technically on Broad Street.

Posted by: lechacal at August 19, 2009 1:25 PM

I think Deutsche and BNY Mellon are the only real banks left on Wall Street.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at August 19, 2009 1:28 PM

the most money actually made on Wall Street are the computer servers that are next door to the exchange. Those computers are the best traders on the street.

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 1:28 PM

quote:
NO, brickoven. It's very mixed. All the fun people always ride in the last car and the back of the bus.

:( i always take the first car. so ive been missing out all these years!?

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 19, 2009 1:32 PM

You're welcome to join me in the last car Rob. Let's see, there's this one really greasy dude with long hair who looks like he's totally into heavy metal. There's big fat fattie who takes up two seats but doesn't harm anyone otherwise. There's tall lanky spooky native american guy. There's the guy I used to work with and I'm not really sure what he does now. There's me. None of the women leave any kind of impression.

Posted by: lechacal at August 19, 2009 1:39 PM

that car sounds like it sucks. ill stick to the first car. plus the first car is the most dangerous. dangerous = accident = lawsuit = $$$$

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 19, 2009 2:58 PM

There are rarely any suvivors in the first car when there's an accident so that's nice that you're thinking about your grandma getting the lawsuit money!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 3:11 PM

45 Wall Street isn't a bad location, not very neighborhoodie, but at least you're nowhere near the Ingersol or Walt Witman housing projects.

Posted by: FloatingWorld at August 19, 2009 3:47 PM

Floating you can get studios down there for 1600. Avalon is going to be empty, but the Brooklyner is priced better. My money is on the brooklyner over Avalon

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 3:50 PM

ok- you guys know rental market so much better than the marketing people at Avalon. Especially for these type highrise new construction buildings. WHy I'm surprised you don't send them your resume and replace those bums.

Posted by: Petebklyn at August 19, 2009 4:01 PM

Pete why would I do that when I can just short there stock?

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 4:10 PM

"45 Wall Street isn't a bad location, not very neighborhoodie, but at least you're nowhere near the Ingersol or Walt Witman housing projects. "

45 Wall St is a depressing ass buildling. NO natural light, town cars for Deutsche Bank employees honking and idling all night. Give me projects anyday.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at August 19, 2009 4:11 PM

45 Wall Street sucks. I would take almost anything in arguably prime Brooklyn over a rental on Wall Street.

Posted by: lechacal at August 19, 2009 4:21 PM

This building does not even have a freakin pool!

Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 4:21 PM

I read an article ages ago about some partiers with a cooler who offered free beer after midnight to anyone in the last car of the G-train.

Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at August 19, 2009 4:22 PM

WOW, it's a great area... Have you ever walked around there? It's scary!!! You better plan a hefty budget for many cab ride home. And it's so lovely next to Flatbush Ave and the Manhattan bridge entrance, I love it. Only 10 miles to the closest subway...

Posted by: Ali Baba at August 19, 2009 11:47 PM

All those rental units were making me a little nervous about the effect on Brownstone rentals. I think they will have a negative effect, because in the end I don't think the highrise owners will get those prices and they will need to come down in order to fill the new buildings up. The selling points of renting in an old brownstone would include hopefully an attractive, charming space, living on pretty human scale streets with beautiful architecture, a sense of neighborhood and history. The "intimacy" of living in a 2 or 3 family house can be comfortable and peaceful if the place is well maintained and the landlord takes care of things and leaves the tenants alone (me). But there are hassles about these old buildings, i.e. the fact that they are old buildings and "it's always something". Landlords will need to work a little harder to keep their good tenants.

Posted by: donatella at November 15, 2009 11:45 AM

« Cleaning Prospect Park Lake Affordable Housing: A Bright Spot? »

August 19, 2009

All Is Revealed at Avalon Fort Greene

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