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August 5, 2009

The State of 7th Ave

If you're walking down 7th Avenue in Park Slope, you might experience sensations of dizziness or disorientation. This is due to the massive turnover along this commercial drag recently: The Brooklyn Paper notes that the main drag from Flatbush Avenue to 15th Street has 27 storefronts either empty or in transition. Since rents are going down and lower rents favor restaurants, says the article, this means more eateries are on their way in, changing the character of the neighborhood. Some residents bemoan these changes, while others are adding menus to their take-out drawers, but Steve Sommers, a local broker, notes that previously higher rents were too high. “It was a bubble, but now all the hot air is getting let out,” he told the Paper.
Seven Up or Down? [Brooklyn Paper]
Photo by Raphael Brion

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"Since rents are going down and lower rents favor restaurants, this means more eateries are on their way in"

No offense jscheff, but this is terrible logic.

When it rains, the ground is wet. The ground is wet, therefore it is raining.

Posted by: tybur6 at August 5, 2009 10:35 AM

"loalty" lollity!

at least the storefronts are being filled though, that's important i guess. tho who has money to eat at all these new places? dont answer that.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 5, 2009 10:36 AM

(tyburg can you explain your metaphor?) that went right over my head

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 5, 2009 10:37 AM

More evidence of our country's fine system of edumacation!

Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at August 5, 2009 10:41 AM

This note is sad. Not because of the misspelling.

Posted by: Nomi at August 5, 2009 10:44 AM

Rob, didn't you say in the OT you feel schools aren't necessary? Well, I think there's some good evidence to the contrary in this photo.

Posted by: East New York at August 5, 2009 10:44 AM

im pretty sure the person who wrote that sign mostly like DID go to a brooklyn public school though.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 5, 2009 10:47 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if we could get back a butcher store, like the old Liberty Market? Or an old-fashioned sit-down ice cream parlor, like Hinch's in Bay Ridge? Or just anything that wasn't "luxury" or a clone or a chain?

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at August 5, 2009 10:47 AM

This article is stupid.

7th Avenue (and all these blocks) are constantly changing.

I see no difference on 7th than I have for the last few years. Stores close, new ones comes in....in many instances, the things that replace the old are better than what was there before...no big woop.

I'm looking forward to seeing what's taking the space of the Trade Winds store that closed on 7th between Lincoln and Berkeley. The for rent sign has come down, so I guess we'll see soon enough.

The fact that more restaurants are coming, is only a plus in my book. Not sure why people would bemoan that. More choices, more competition, more options, what's not to like?

And we DON'T NEED more high end restaurants. Park Slope is not a high end restaurant kinda place. Not sure why, but it isn't.

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 10:51 AM

Just to defend the bad spellers of the world: We can't help it! Some of us have advanced degrees . . . it's about not having a certain kind of visual memory.

Though, through my years of analysis of misspelled words, I believe that this person probably made a "typo." Unlikely that he or she actually thinks the word is spelled that way, since it can't be pronounced like that.

Yes, yes, why didn't they catch it? Well, yeah, that's another story.

But doesn't anyone feel sad reading this? The content is sad.

Posted by: Nomi at August 5, 2009 10:53 AM

I guess you could be right about that, Rob.

Posted by: East New York at August 5, 2009 10:54 AM

Rob,
It's not a metaphor... it's an example of a basic logical fallacy.

Just because the ground is wet doesn't mean it's raining. Just because restaurants like lower rent, doesn't mean there's going to be a flood of eateries.

I think ANY shop would like lower rent, no?

Posted by: tybur6 at August 5, 2009 10:55 AM

RE: the spelling. My guess would be that the writer is not a native speaker of English.

Posted by: Kris at August 5, 2009 10:56 AM

I was looking for a great Thai Restaurant in Park Slope last week. I was very surprises/disappointed when I realized there were not that many in the neighborhood. There seem to be much more choices in Williamsburg.

Posted by: lostintranslation at August 5, 2009 10:57 AM

Nomi:

I appreciate that, but someone who has not taken the time to proofread a sign multiple times which will hang on the front door of their business, might lead me to believe that it's a sign of someone who may not have been very successful in said business for this same lack of attention to detail.

Or not.

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 10:59 AM

"RE: the spelling. My guess would be that the writer is not a native speaker of English."

Could be, but then it seems odd that he or she would leave out one letter instead of misspelling it in another way. But maybe.

Posted by: Nomi at August 5, 2009 10:59 AM

Lostintranslation:

Song on 5th Avenue is one of the best Thai restaurants in Brooklyn.

And yes, Williamsburg (Bedford Avenue anyway) seems to have WAY too many really mediocre Thai places.

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 11:00 AM

Lost... I think there are still 47 thai or thai-inspired restaurants in Carroll Gardens/Cobble Hill. Even if 3 or 4 of them close, they seem to be replaced with the same thing again.

Oh, and it's about a 10 min walk across the Gowanus.

Posted by: tybur6 at August 5, 2009 11:01 AM

(and I mention this in particular because I have very little patience for Williamsburg and don't quite understand the appeal...)

Posted by: tybur6 at August 5, 2009 11:02 AM

I also felt that the 'eateries' are the ones that drove rents up. Alcohol is big markup and moneymaker and those that serve can pay higher rents than 'shops'.
There was a time when many landlords did not to rent to 'food' establishments...too much trouble and vermin.
But with appetite of today's crowd for drinking - landlords seem quite willing to take to bigger rents.

Posted by: Petebklyn at August 5, 2009 11:04 AM

Oh yeah, and Song. Song is pretty damn tasty.

Posted by: tybur6 at August 5, 2009 11:05 AM

Another logical fallacy... that restaurants will do well even with lower rent. With less disposable income, we do not really need more restaurants.

Posted by: BH76 at August 5, 2009 11:06 AM

Ok so aside from eateries, what other types of stores do most people really want and will shop in?

Posted by: gemini10 at August 5, 2009 11:07 AM

tybur6, the restaurant logic was offered up in Brooklyn Paper article and just reblogged here...

Posted by: brownstoner at August 5, 2009 11:12 AM

there really needs to be a good DVD porno store on 5th avenue in park slope. it's really f'ing annoying to have to go all the way to sunset park for porn. and dont say who buys porn anymore. i dont believe in watching porn on a compuiter or downloading it. it's not as fun.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 5, 2009 11:13 AM

Gemini:

My list is as follows in no particular order:

1. Kiehls or Malin & Goetz
2. Gay bar
3. Video arcade
4. Beard Papa
5. Chop Chop (or similar with a make your own salad option)
6. A store which sells nice stuff for bed and bath (like a Laytners Linens on the UWS). I don't shop at Target or other big chains, if at all possible.
7. GREAT Indian
8. GREAT BBQ
9. Gay bar.

None of these are necessities obviously, as PS really has just about everything one could ever need without leaving the neighborhood.

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 11:13 AM

also there needs to be a good liquor store in the area. that place, red wine and bubbly is massively overpriced.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 5, 2009 11:13 AM

I'd totally be open to a hardcore swingers club...

Posted by: tybur6 at August 5, 2009 11:13 AM

I'd like a whimsical toy store w/o all the p.c.-type toys - sort of what NancyNancy had.

Posted by: Arkady at August 5, 2009 11:14 AM

Rob,

There are 10 great liquor stores in the area. You just need to leave a 3 block radius.

The one up on 7th and Flatbush is terrific.

Agree about the porn store.

And why no head shops in PS? For all the hippie types and stoners, I hate having to go to St. Marks to get a new bong.

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 11:17 AM

"Park Slope is not a high end restaurant kinda place. Not sure why, but it isn't."

Toddlers + $30 entrees do not mix.

Posted by: northsloperenter at August 5, 2009 11:17 AM

Arkady, they already have Babeland on Bergen.

Posted by: heck_of_a_job_brownie at August 5, 2009 11:17 AM

Definitely need a "high street curry" Indian place.

Posted by: Arkady at August 5, 2009 11:18 AM

Oh and I heard that another Vietnamese place is opening in South Slope...

Let's PRAY that it's Nicky's!

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 11:18 AM

oh yes a video arcade!!! it might sound like an outdated business, but not really, it would do well i think.

i think there's enough gay bars in the area really. and most of the straight bars are pretty gay as it is, 11217.

kiels is a make up store where men buy make up. no thanks!

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 5, 2009 11:19 AM

They don't sell make up. It's skincare stuff.

I agree with you about the gay bars (although PS only has one that's not a lezzy bar) but still...a nice divey one could be fun. Like I said...most definitely not a necessity, but since we're shooting the shit about it...

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 11:22 AM

quote:
You just need to leave a 3 block radius.

ha. you're probably right actually hahaha.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 5, 2009 11:23 AM

quote:
They don't sell make up. It's skincare stuff.

:-/ okay, you keep calling it your skincare stuff. ill continue to call it lip gloss and rouge.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 5, 2009 11:25 AM

Thanks for the recommendations. Will try Song next time.

It is true that there are a lot of mediocre Thai places in Williamsburg. You cannot go wrong with the following ones though:
- Lily Thai (615 Grand Street, Brooklyn NY 11211)
- Khao Sarn (311 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, NY 11211)
They are managed by Thai people.

Posted by: lostintranslation at August 5, 2009 11:26 AM

rob, have you ever considered Alphabet City?

11217, have you ever considered Chelsea?

Oh, and Song is great.

Posted by: northsloperenter at August 5, 2009 11:40 AM

Chelsea is my least favorite neighborhood in NYC. Hate it, never go there.

Goes to show you can't make generalizations and stereotype someone from some posts on a blog.

Just because I think it would be nice to have a neighborhood bar to meet people doesn't mean I have to like Chelsea.

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 11:43 AM

hahahaha 11217.

hmm i dont know about alphabet city. way too fratty and sorority these days. i lived on the LES for about 4 1/2 years and it was the same for the most part.

i thoroughly enjoy living in park slope A LOT. something i never ever thought in a million years id like, so ill stay where i am. oddly for the most part people in park slope don't annoy me at all.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 5, 2009 11:51 AM

> I was looking for a great Thai Restaurant in Park Slope last week.

I had a great lunch at Mango last weekend:

- http://mangothai.com/

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 5, 2009 11:51 AM

11217:
um ok - agreed on chop chop. I have never been to Beard papa - but the name alone makes me chuckle. So Japanese! like Happy Tennis!

a good arcade/game place/fountain shop I think would do well in Park Slope

um no to the porn shop - sorry it's kinda schevatz to me.

Yes to a GOOOD indian joint! also why can't we have a good west indian restaraunt in Park Slope!!!

I still think Park Slope needs a solid dessert place - but cupcakes,cookies,cakes and coffee that is open until 11pm/12am

Posted by: gemini10 at August 5, 2009 11:52 AM

Mango IS quite good, Snark. I live right there yet sometimes forget about it. It always amazes me that Lemongrass Grill across the street is usually more crowded than Mango yet Lemongrass SUCKS!!!

I had dinner at Chiles and Chocolate right next door to Mango the other evening and it was delicious as well.

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 11:53 AM

> Yes to a GOOOD indian joint!

Baluchi's is pretty good. Not great perhaps, but definitely better than any of the other options in Park Slope.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 5, 2009 11:55 AM

Baluchi's is pretty good... Although I went there last night (for about the fifth time since they have opened) and discovered that they recently jacked up the prices considerably. Like +40%, since they now require you to purchase rice separately. Also the service was brutally, painfully slow. It made me sad, 'cuz I had been so happy with them previously.

Posted by: Kris at August 5, 2009 12:01 PM

a good old fashion NON-organic bodega would be nice. none of that phoney organic overpriced faudegas. tho i dont really mind them either for certain things i guess. i know there are still some old fashioned bodegas around, but there is non on my block and that makes me sad.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at August 5, 2009 12:01 PM

> Lemongrass Grill across the street is usually more crowded than Mango

Agreed, Mango is much, much better than Lemongrass Grill.

> I had dinner at Chiles and Chocolate right next door...

I keep meaning to try them. Maybe this weekend.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 5, 2009 12:03 PM

I'd be very happy if 7th Avenue got

1. A good butcher

2. A real Chinese restaurant

3. A quality fishmonger with reasonable, not stratospheric, prices.

Besides the lack of Chinese food, I really feel neutral about the prospect of more new restaurants on 7th because there are an abundance on 5th, Flatbush, and now on Vanderbilt.

What we seriously can do without on 7th Avenue:

1. All those useless "boutiques" obviously started as vanity projects by wives of hedge funders/trustafarians.

2. Another cell phone store

3. More real estate agents

What I'd find useful, if not necessarily "cool":

1.More dollar-type stores filled with cheap useful household stuff

2. A professional tailor/alterations shop (not the guys who work inside of the dry cleaners)

Posted by: WonTon at August 5, 2009 12:03 PM

> Baluchi's ... recently jacked up the prices...

Seriously? They were already a bit on the expensive side.

Guess I'll get my Indian fix at lunch in Midtown. Hmmm, maybe today...

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 5, 2009 12:04 PM

> More dollar-type stores filled with cheap useful household stuff

We just got a new one of those on Cortelyou in Ditmas Park. I bought a few items there last night.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at August 5, 2009 12:06 PM

Wonton - Great points
we def need a good tailor!
would love a great cheaper fishmonger and a butcher
how about a good deli? - sorry but I don't buy sandwiches from bodegas for fear their meats are old and they usually use stale poor quality bread.

I have a baddd story about Baluchi's 6th avenue and Waverly

Posted by: gemini10 at August 5, 2009 12:09 PM

rob -- I'm pretty sure Alphabet City is de-gentrifying at a pretty good rate, although now that Old Devil Moon has closed, I really couldn't see living around there again anyway.

That's what park slope needs -- a place like Old Devil Moon, although I couldn't picture it on 7th Ave.

Posted by: northsloperenter at August 5, 2009 12:10 PM

"2. A professional tailor/alterations shop (not the guys who work inside of the dry cleaners)"

One of these just opened on 5th in the North Slope...can't remember the cross street, but it's right next to a barber shop.

With reference to a butcher and fish monger (the latter of which there are two on 7th within a block of each other) I don't think it's going to happen.

With places like Natural Land, Union Market, BKLYN Larder, etc, I simply don't think a butcher could compete with those places. Even at $4500 a month, it's just not going to work financially. Especially in a neighborhood like Park Slope where I bet people don't eat a ton of meat. I'm not a vegetarian (anymore) but I only eat meat maybe once or twice a week, at most.

Completely agree regarding a good Chinese place. We do not have that.

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 12:14 PM

there's that crazy asian dollar store place where 7th smacks into flatbush.

Posted by: Santa at August 5, 2009 12:14 PM

Old Devil Moon made the best cakes ever. I mean delicious. And you could get them x-rated too (the name of the bakery was Masturbakers). I had no idea it closed. Oh well.

Posted by: tiptoe at August 5, 2009 12:19 PM

I miss the great dollar store that used to be on Flatbush next to the Jamaican Pattie Shop (which moved). The Dollar store across the street is not as good.

Cortelyou Road is a little far to go for paper towels.

Natural Land doesn't have a butcher, and the quality of their seafood is not good. Going to Brooklyn Larder for you meat is like going to Barney's to buy all your clothes. They have specialty meats but they aren't butchers.

Same thing goes for Union Market. You can buy meat there, but there's no real butchering going on. I want a neighborhood place where the guys behind the counter go chop! chop! chop!

Posted by: WonTon at August 5, 2009 12:21 PM

11217: I think you're wrong about there being no difference on 7th Avenue compared to previous years. I see a LOT more empty storefronts, or storefronts taking a lot longer to turn over than in the past.

WonTon: Totally agree about the useless boutiques. For example, who even goes into that weird Victorian place between Lincoln and Berkeley, anyway?

I hope potential merchants are reading this thread today! There's obviously an audience for a good tailor, a good Thai restaurant, a good Chinese place, and some low-end bodegas and dollar stores and the like. And how about a decent diner? Park Cafe is only so-so. That place on the corner of 7th Street that used to be farther north is pretty good, but far if you live in the North Slope. I'd love to see a Dizzy's in the North Slope - I bet it would do really well.

Posted by: Park Sloper at August 5, 2009 12:24 PM

Wonton:

It's called M&S Prime Meats on 5th Avenue.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/m-and-s-prime-meats-brooklyn

I don't think 7th could support another butcher.

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 12:25 PM

"Old Devil Moon made the best cakes ever. "

The key lime pie was fantastic. And the biscuits. And anything they were serving for brunch. And the sangria. And the coffee. They did things right there.

Sigh...

"One of these just opened on 5th in the North Slope...can't remember the cross street, but it's right next to a barber shop. "

St. Johns and Lincoln.

Posted by: northsloperenter at August 5, 2009 12:31 PM

Oh I also think a Housing Works would do well in Park Slope. They've just opened a huge new store in Tribeca after outgrowing their other Tribeca location in only 6 months...

Thrift store business is BOOMING right now.

The folks down at Odd Twin on Lincoln and 5th and Beacons Closet on Warren and 5th said business couldn't be better...

A Buffalo Exchange would be nice as well..

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 12:51 PM

Both soul food and caribbean restaurants are needed in Park Slope. Chrystie's Beef Patties on Flatbush is great(mmmm! oxtail), but its not really a restaurant

Posted by: Troy McClure at August 5, 2009 1:57 PM

7th Ave needed a real coffee place - but I think Cafe Regular is opening there so that need will be fulfilled

Posted by: fsrg at August 5, 2009 3:35 PM

I'm with Troy. Some West Indian flavor would be nice, as it's currently absent on 7th.

Posted by: East New York at August 5, 2009 3:42 PM

Speaking of coffee and 7th Ave.....

....is it just me, or does anyone find the coffee at the Ozzie's on 7th Ave to be significantly better than the one on 5th?

Agree that Cafe Regular has them both beat, though the atmosphere in the 11th street place is sometimes nauseating, particularly on a Saturday morning.

Posted by: benson at August 5, 2009 3:47 PM

The atmosphere in the Berkeley Place one isn't so great either. I have never been able to find a seat in there.

Posted by: WonTon at August 5, 2009 3:51 PM

WonTon;

By atmosphere I wasn't referring to the amentities of Cafe Regular itself, I was talking about the patrons.

On Saturday morning there is a particular crowd that hangs out in the 11th Street one that acts like they own the place and the proprietor does nothing to discourage them. They engage in a non-stop snark-fest about the news of the day, and talk in a loud tone such that even though it's supposed to be a private conversation, they make sure everyone can hear their pearls of wisdom.

Imagine it as an unhinged Brownstowner thread broadcast into your ears while your trying to relax with a Saturday morning cup of Joe, and you'll get the picture.

Posted by: benson at August 5, 2009 3:57 PM

Benson, FSRG, WonTon:

Just to clarify, Cafe Regular Du Nord has already opened on Berkeley between 7th and 6th. It's fantastic. I really can't say enough about the space itself, the owner, the coffee and the pastries.

They are doing extremely well and I was in there on Saturday at 1pm and they had sold COMPLETELY out of all pastries, which they had hoped would last the entire day based on the previous weekend.

The owner told me that business is better than he imagined, and is growing everyday.

I go at least once a day, if not more.

Not a single complaint...from what I hear from my neighbors, everyone is thrilled about their arrival. A much needed addition to this area.

Posted by: 11217 at August 5, 2009 4:16 PM

11217;

Maybe I should switch to the Cafe Regular Du Nord, as it is probably closer to my house than the one on 11th Street.

Don't get me wrong, I love Cafe Regular, and I agree about their pastries. It's just the Saturday morning crowd on 11th Street that annoys me.

If you want to try another good coffee place, try the place on the corner of 6th Ave and 19th Street. Also fantastic, and worth a trip.

Posted by: benson at August 5, 2009 4:22 PM

« City Officials Call for Atlantic Yards Disclosure Activity at the Finger (Albero) »

August 5, 2009

The State of 7th Ave

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