Open Thread

According to the Heritage Foundation:
The 47 million "uninsured" is patently false as based on the US Census figures;

1. 20 million of the "uninsured" are at twice the guidelines for poverty level (40k a year for a family of 4, twice that is 80,000 per year). In other words they can purchase insurance if they wanted it.
2. 9 million of the "uninsured" are already insured under various medicaid plans.
3. 7 million of the "uninsured" are not legal citizens of this nation and are thus under the medical responsibility of another sovereign nation.
4. 3.5 million of the "uninsured" are children who would qualify for the SHIP program if their parents would take the time to enroll them.

That leaves approximately 7 million actual uninsured. the question then becomes, do we restructure our entire healthcare system, 1/5 our economy on a proposed system that has proven to be unsustainable in Mass. already and leaves our standard of care behind what it is today?

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 11:23 AM

insertsnappynamehere,

There is always a way. If you know plenty of people who are making a good salary and not able to buy major medical coverage you might ask them if they are still eating out for dinner, if they are living in an apartment too expensive for their salary, if they are sending their kids to private school, if they are paying for a cell phone plan, if they are getting manicures regularly, or their hair done in a fancy salon as opposed to a simple barber shop, if they are driving a car beyond their pay grade, if they purchased a flat screen tv, if they are paying for cable, if they went on a vacation to Aruba. In short, if they are living beyond their means. Which is at the heart of the entire economic mess.
If they have pre-existing conditions, they will seriously have to consider changing their lifestyle and applying for the disability portion of social security.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 11:40 AM

bxgrl,
the Heritage is a conservative think tank no doubt. but one that does due diligence in analyzing the issues and giving an alternative opinion to the one being forced on the public without open debate in the baised major media. Am I to rely on the "objectivity" of the NYTimes? a paper that has all but stated it's opposition to all things conservative? I think not.

Insertsnappynamehere,
don't be so offended. reality hurts. I am giving you the facts as they stand. your anecdotal thoughts, while deserving of our concern, do not mitigate the enormous fact that in this world, you are delt a hand and must deal with it in your own manner.
There are numerous safety nets in our society. the fact that your friend has managed to fall through them all does not give cause to an indictment of our entire society. Has she considered moving out of state, I have.
Please to not take the offended liberal tone. Your life is ultimately in your own hands, not in the goverment's.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 12:07 PM

The new proposed health plan is not addressing much of what is currently ailing the medical industry.
First off, this new plan mentions nothing of Tort reform, this has been a cornerstone of health care reform elsewhere.
In the UK, although they have a flawed system as well, there is a loser pays law, if you sue the doctor and lose you pay all costs.
This has effectively stopped much of the frivilous litigation which has caused all the cost increases associated with defensive medicine.
Insurance industry reform is next. HMO's don't work, they were shoved into medicine in the 90's and have only managed to make health insurance companies rich at the expense of doctor's whose fees have steadily eroded by medicare mandate, increased insurance costs and corrupt company regulations that force doctor's to sign the dotted line or lose their patient base.
Malpractic costs are out of control because of the prevailing idea among society that because someone gets a stubbed toe, they are somehow entitled to a 300,000 dollar settlement. Why do you think lawyers want to try all medical cases in the Bronx? That has to stop.
next, the government has to allow insurers to compete, not with a national plan, but with each other across state borders. Right now I can't apply for a well managed plan in Oklahoma because blue cross blue shield in NY has lobbied against competition.
Correct these few things and see how affordable healthcare becomes. increase the patient load on doctors, decrease their pay and see how fast we turn into the third world.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 12:18 PM

bxgrl,
put it this way about the NYTimes which I had been reading since it was required reading at Brooklyn Tech, my alma mater. They had over 40 front page covers on the abu gharib debacle. I mean, this story was important, but to put it on the front page more than the Kennedy assassination was quite telling.
Not to mention the little leaks of national security which put the troops in danger, like the eavsdropping on our enemies which President Obama has continued, but is now an open secret thanks to the Old Gray Lady.
Not on my dime.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 12:29 PM

cobblehiller,
is the Heritage foundation and it's endowment, any different than the myriad organizations funded by George Soros? A financier who makes his money by manipulating currency valuation? Yet this foreign interloper, now steps into our national political arena, funding organizations like Mediamatters to the tune of millions, for the exact purpose of advancing his internationalist agenda. point is, everyone has a perspective. Take the best information you can from all sources and come to your own conclusions.
My opinions come from an objective review of data and where it comes from, combined with my own empirical observation. It's called having a brain and using it.
I happen to be a doctor and I have worked in the poorest sectors of the city my entire career South Bronx, East New York, Bushwick and Bed-Stuy, I know of what I speak.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 12:36 PM

Biff,
That doctor who threw you out was guilty of patient abandonment. He had no cause to go nuts over an insurance plan change. The professional thing to do would have been to complete the exam and re-educate the staff on being more mindful of these insurance issues.
I can't tell you how many thousands of dollars I've eaten because insurances have found ways to deny claims. Although frustrating, I wouldn't take it out on a patient. I would calmly explain to them that I will no longer be accepting that insurance because of the overburdening restrictions they place on my practice.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 12:44 PM

bxgrl,
no need to go all lib-nut on me, I was stating a legitimate fact about the NYTimes and its reporting. The paper was asked not to print certain information in a time of war that might be detirmental to our troops, not an unusual request, but they went ahead anyway. The gave out information on our cell phone monitoring and on our bases in eastern europe. Why? because they have a political agenda, to deny this is myopic and obtuse.
No I didn't serve in Iraq. Does this disqualify me from offering an opinion as an American citizen. If you haven't served as President of the United States, are you excluded from commentary on the basis of not having been there? No, that is censorship my dear, and the left is full of such hypocrisy.
As far as being a doctor, prove me wrong. why would I lie. I have no cause to lie to you people about my profession, I earned my degree and will not attempt to hide that fact.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 1:03 PM

by the way,
I love the way "religious right" is used as an epithet in this chat room. It speaks volumes about the liberal inclusion and spirit of plurality in your ideology. I am not religious myself, in fact I am an agnostic. But I respect the need of others to have something to believe in.

on another note, before you libs here go all nuts on me for being a conservative; check out these eye opening facts;
The republican party was started by anti-slavery activists. The dems obstructed them for over a hundred years, opposing the civil rights acts after the civil war and enabling the rise of the Jim Crow laws that followed.
the NAACP was founded by black republicans. The first US senators were black republicans. You'll be surprised to know that Frederick Douglas was a republican,as was Harriet Tubman, as was Soujourner Truth, as was Booker T. Washington, as was George Washington Carver, as was MLK according to his neice Dr. Alveda King. And yet, you liberals (majority white) try to go all off on the moral highground routine. Please spare me.
Don't even get me started on the racist woman who started Planned Parenthood. Look it up if you dare.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 1:09 PM

bxgrl,
I apologize, I took your honest mistake as sarcasm. Nonetheless, I stand by my original statements. This plan to fix healthcare by decreasing doctors fees by 20% and throwing 47 million new people onto an overburdened system is a plan for failure. It does not address the real problems in healthcare.
The fact that Tort reform is repeatedly ignored, tells me that the Obama administration is not serious in fixing this mess, but is only attempting to push through a larger political agenda.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 1:18 PM

rf,
the statement stands,
the poverty level for a family of 4 in the US is 40k. a good 20 million of the folks in the 47 million "uninsured" number are at TWICE the poverty guidelines which make that 80k a year for a family of four. Please follow the numbers closely.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 1:32 PM

Arkady,
whether you believe in creationism or evolution, neither explains why the genetic material lines up perfectly and in unison at conception. We know there is a miliamp spark, but we do not know what initiates this spark.
In the end, you can cling to almight science and call others nuts but you will not get an answer as to why, no matter how hard you kling to a biology textbook.
All this order and perfection in a universe tending towards randomness. defying the orderly idea of entropy.
You do of course realize that at the subatomic level, not only does God exist but he is in the details.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 1:37 PM

bxgrl,
tell me about racism, about how the dems push forward an agenda of dependency and keep the masses nice and dumb. You don't need to believe me. Just look up the name Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, that liberal/democratic insitution, then get back to me.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 1:40 PM

mopar,
here's the info MORON. now think before you type MORON.

2009 Annual Low Income Levels

(Effective January 23, 2009 Until Further Notice)

Size of Family Unit
48 Contiguous States,
D.C., and Outlying Jurisdictions
Alaska
Hawaii

1
$16,245
$20,295
$18,690

2
$21,855
$27,315
$25,140

3
$27,465
$34,335
$31,590

4
$33,075
$41,355
$38,040

5
$38,685
$48,375
$44,490

6
$44,295
$55,395
$50,940

7
$49,905
$62,415
$57,390

8
$55,515
$69,435
$63,840

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 1:59 PM

dittoburg,
are you telling me you understand how the miliamp spark that initiates chromosomal allignment is originated?
please call the Nobel Prize committee, because you just discovered the answer to life itself.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 2:02 PM

bxgrl,
your descent into namecalling and inconsistent raving is only indicative of a lack of rigorous though. Please refrain from going batty. I do hope you can remain civil and break the usual liberal mold.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 2:05 PM

ENY,
lol, yeah that explains it. I'm a screwball. Try again without resorting to grunting and shouting "uggggg fire god angry", as you retreat back to the cave during a thunderstorm.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 2:08 PM

cobblehiller,
I'm old enough to know what the Nixon "southern strategy" was, as articulated by Patrick Buchanan and young enough to know that MGMT has no business hanging with Paul McCartney.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 2:11 PM

dittoburg,
you are sadly uninformed. The simple biological concept that I am alluding to is what happens at conception, when the sperm cell combines with the egg cell. chromosomes from the male allign with chromosomes from the female, similar to mitosis with its prophase, metaphase, anaphase and telophase portions.
Scientists cannot explain why this process occurs, sure they know the mechanism (microtubules and such and an electrical current to initiate the process) but they CANNOT explain what initiates the microamperage at the exact moment to commence the unification of the male and female genetic material into a diploid being.
Apparently you can. so please regale us with your knowledge.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 2:24 PM

dittoburg,
you are taking me too literally, my God in the details was an allusion to the fact that at the sub-atomic level the laws of physics are no longer in effect and you approach the realm of infinite possibilities. If there is a possibility of infinite probabilities as many theoretical physicists believe, then the idea of one probability having a real God becomes a certainty.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 2:46 PM

bxgrl,
here are your words;
Doctor of what, exactly?Dependency? Dumbness?
that's what I was talking about.
hey, I just respond in kind.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 2:49 PM

dittoburg,
it's not DNA polymerase, it's DNA gyrase.
As far as the "spark"
just look it up and please stop thinking you know more, you obviously don't.
I suggest you look up the current work in cloning and you will find out that the great breakthrough in cloning technology was a microamperage "jumpstart" to commence the cellular replication.
Jesus you folks are close minded and sheepish. all acting in unison to beat down the heretic with some different thought.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 3:01 PM

dibs,
it's metaphasics really.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 3:07 PM

bxgrl,
I have no objection to planned parenthood as an organization, only to the hypocrisy often inherent in arguments that see liberal insitutions as being all good and conservative institutions all bad. Knowing that planned parenthood started out as a form of eugenics and racial population control is an important historical fact that needs to be spoken as much as to the idea that it is for the greater good of society.
As a conservative, I am all for contraception and I don't find those ideas to be mutually exclusive. There are those on the far right who feel differently, just as there are those on the far left who want to see our entire society fail.
This entire thread is a good illustration of how one person with an opposing view is demonized for having the audacity to express it. It is what is routinely done to conservatives by liberals who think they know more. When I bring the information to the party, it is suddenly dismissed and ridiculed as upsurd, when it is based in fact. It's no sweat to me though, if any of you can convince me otherwise, I am open to it. The more the merrier in this feast of pure reason.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 3:27 PM

rf,
you are pulling up the poverty guidelines, the guidelines for WIC/medicaid elegibility are set at 185% higher and are printed below. In other words, the government is being even MORE generous in determining an individuals eligibility to receive Medicaid coverage. Again, if you make 40k a year you are elegible for medicaid with a family of four. the heritage foundation data based on the census found that 20 million of the "uninsured" were at TWICE the level for Medicaid/WIC elegibility.

48 Contiguous States, D.C., Guam and Territories

Persons in Family or Household Size Annual
Monthly
Twice-Monthly
Bi-Weekly
Weekly

1 $20,036 $1,670 $835 $771 $386
2 26,955 2,247 1,124 1,037 519
3 33,874 2,823 1,412 1,303 652
4 40,793 3,400 1,700 1,569 785
5 47,712 3,976 1,988 1,836 918
6 54,631 4,553 2,277 2,102 1,051
7 61,550 5,130 2,565 2,368 1,184
8 68,469 5,706 2,853 2,634 1,317
Each Add'l Member Add +$6,919 +577 +289 +267 +134

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 3:41 PM

bxgrl,
scroll upwards, I just stated that I think that planned parenthood is important and useful.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 3:49 PM

dittoburg,
no doubt people disagree, I'm all for it, that's why I posted this morning on the new health care plan proposal. to get the ideas out there. to see if someone could convince me otherwise. they couldn't so I stand by my position and by the reasons given, including the Heritage Foundation data.
you were going all nuts on me about the "spark" when you should know well enough of what I'm talking about.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 3:52 PM

dittoburg,
and perhaps I was a bit too dogmatic in my agnostic defense of religious thought.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 4:17 PM

bxgrl,
if you think my data is skewed, you obviously haven't been listening today.

sooooo, who wants to go out for a drink?

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 4:36 PM

insertsnappyname,
thanks for the invite, perhaps I'll go and stir up some more debate.

bottom line;
I don't know if there's an afterlife, but I'm bringing a change of underwear just in case.

Posted by: Legion at July 23, 2009 5:00 PM