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July 17, 2009

Meter Maids Jump the Gun in Fort Greene

It sounds like the traffic cops didn't get the memo from DOT that the new alternate side of the street parking rules in Fort Greene and Clinton Hill are not in force until Monday. According to this tip we got, they were just a little too anxious to start making everyone's lives miserable again:

I came home to Willoughby Street today to find cars all the way up the block with tickets (including mine). It seems a Traffic Agent Blackett decided to ticket everyone even though alternate side goes back into effect next week. I'd be interested to hear if other streets had this same problem.

How 'bout it: Anyone else get hit with premature ticketulation?

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My advise to anyone prematurely ticketed is to plead "not guilty" on line and write a coherent explanation. The summons is virtually certain to be dismissed. Fortunately the hearing officers are more intelligent than the meter maids.

I worked on Traffic Enforcement Agent examinations many years ago at the old NYC Department of Personnel. The most difficult part of that civil service test was a qualifying "practical examination" in walking. These people are not hired for their brains :-)

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 17, 2009 9:39 AM

Mr. B, we all know the only reason you posted this is so you could write "premature ticketulation" ;-)

Posted by: 1842 at July 17, 2009 9:43 AM

That happened in the Slope last year. People on the block complained to the precinct & to Brooklyn Papers & all the tickets were rescinded.

Posted by: Arkady at July 17, 2009 9:43 AM

good. ticket everyone. the city needs as much money as possible. ticket stupid bikers too. and jaywalkers. hells i think people should be ticketed just for being stupid.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 17, 2009 9:48 AM

I was among a long line of cars that got ticketed Monday, first day of suspension in Brooklyn Heights. Clearly, the word hadn't gotten out to the traffic cops.

To my amazement, that night I got a call from Community Affairs asking me if I got a ticket - yes - sorry about that, they said, you can rip it up.

Someone must have looked up all the plate numbers, looked up the phone numbers, and made all those calls. Amazing.

Posted by: Ringo at July 17, 2009 9:51 AM

A friend of mine got a 30 pound (about $45.) ticket in London for making a wrong turn off Oxford St on his bicycle!

Posted by: Arkady at July 17, 2009 9:55 AM

It sounds like people got unfairly ticketed. I do feel sorry for the meter readers. I saw a guy last weekend in Brooklyn Heights running and screaming at on older man who had just written him a ticket for an expired meter. I thought the meter man was going to get killed. It must be a tough job - although I'm not excusing them for the unfair tickets they write.

Posted by: Biff Champion at July 17, 2009 9:56 AM

Arkady, the UK gov needs $$$ in an even worst way than us in the states

Posted by: more4less at July 17, 2009 9:58 AM

How do they enforce a bicycle or jaywalking ticket??? What if you refuse to produce an ID?? It surely can't be tied into your driver's license.

I remember many years ago the Post published someone's jaywalking ticket on the front page!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 17, 2009 9:58 AM

also "meter maid" is a derogatory term. just sayin'.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 17, 2009 10:06 AM

I think you are supposed to call them "traffic enforcement officers" over here but everyone calls them "wardens"

Posted by: the chicken at July 17, 2009 10:13 AM

>good. ticket everyone. the city needs as much money as >possible. ticket stupid bikers too. and jaywalkers. hells >i think people should be ticketed just for being stupid.

that'll be $255 please. i kid.

they're meter maids. and even that is a glorifying term for those brainless vultures. how about 'mobile tax collecters'? oh, and can we put them back in the silly little cars, and stop this pretending to be a police car thing? even police look down on them and want nothing to do with them (so a police officer tells me)

Posted by: goldie at July 17, 2009 10:25 AM

Don't complain too much. Back in the day, they would have just lined up the wreckers and hauled ALL THE CARS down to the Navy Yard for no reason...except end of the month quota.

Happened to me twice :)

Posted by: Action Jackson at July 17, 2009 10:27 AM

They're also known as brownies.

Posted by: Arkady at July 17, 2009 10:46 AM

It's a sh*tty job with no respect from anyone, and unrealistic demands from their own agency for standards of success. But it's an honest day's work and puts a roof over people's heads, and someone's got to do it. I'd refrain from the "brainless vulture" name calling. As for the lack of respect from the "real" police - they seem to spend an awful lot of time doing the same thing, and at least have a badge and the authority of their office to face down angry drivers. The mostly female, mostly minority, mostly immigrant traffic enforcement agents don't have much recourse other than to walk away. I wonder how many people here would put up with that in order to keep a job.

Just sayin.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at July 17, 2009 10:49 AM

rob, they do give people tickets for being stupid. Actually, they don't have to give them, people come in and ask for them themselves. It's called "The Lottery."

Posted by: slopenick at July 17, 2009 10:51 AM

And I completely agree, MM. It's a lot easier to be the screaming civilian, than inside that uniform. They're told what to do and how to do it and they get all the flack. It's not a fun job but people gotta work.

Posted by: bxgrl at July 17, 2009 11:01 AM

there are too many stories of people who had to park very briefly for very legitimate reasons, in low-risk uncrowded places and getting ticketed: someone dropping an invalid wife off at the dialysis clinic to get treatment (no cars in the area, no traffic, the warden didnt care or listen), mother running to drop of prescription meds for her mother (not a busy area/cars/traffic either), me waiting for AAA to come open my car after keys locked in in a residential area with my car not blocking/bothering anyone. it goes on and on, thus their "no respect from anyone", because too many of them are likely hired on their ability to be unfeeling robots who'll ignore people's please, and go about their way bringing in revenue.

that being said, i have defended them in a past post, agreeing its a sh.tty job dealing with hostile people. but there are more than just a few bad apples.

Posted by: goldie at July 17, 2009 11:04 AM

It is nice when the traffic agents accept your "legitimate reason" for double parking, standing in a no standing zone, etc, but they are strict liability offense - if you are doing it you are liable for a ticket. While I would be the last person to throw stones (glass hosues and all), the cumulative effect of all those double parkers, etc, is a serious degregation of traffic flow. My boyfriend, who is from Atlanta, is just amazed by the slolem (sp?) course that is Clinton Avenue near Myrtle.

As far as refusing to give id to a cop when being cited for a traffic violation, even if on foot or bike, I don't recommend it. Chances are you will emerge from criminal court 36 hours later. Really not worth it.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at July 17, 2009 11:15 AM

Of course there are bad apples- show me what job doesn't have them? But what makes you think they are allowed or required to listen to everyone's story? Because everyone has a story. They aren't allowed to make that call and too many people project onto them. How nice and sweet would you be if every day you had to get verbally and sometimes physically abused by some overwrought car owner whose threatening to rip your head off. They have to be tough- do you remember why they uniforms were changed from brown to blue? Because so many of them were getting abused and beaten up NYPD thought if they looked more like real cops, the public would show more respect.

Sorry- but they aren't hired to be fuzzy and warm and they can't afford to be.

Posted by: bxgrl at July 17, 2009 11:16 AM

I agree with MM and bxgrl. They are hired to write tickets for cars parked in violation of the law. If they make exceptions, they are violating the terms of their employment. If you get a ticket for which you feel you were victimized, appeal it and take your chances with a college-educated, better-paid hearing officer who is paid to make these judgments.

Posted by: rf at July 17, 2009 11:26 AM

how do they enforce tickets against bike riders? simple. these have to be written by peace officers(cops or specially deputized traffic agents)...no id? no problem we will just go down to the station house, finger print you and hold you until we establish your id. oh you have id....

as for J walkers.. its a $2 ticket no wonder they don't write them....

Posted by: smeyer418 at July 17, 2009 11:36 AM

not talking extremes here and asking for warm fuzziness, just occasional logic. clearly when cars are illegally parked and unattended, ticket it, especially in bus stops, traffic, or those busy/jammed 'slolem streets'. but if the car is in an empty quiet area, and you see someone trying to pull a wheelchair in/out, or help an invalid, or unload 2 kids and a stroller, or someone locked out of their car, youre not doing any favors to anyone by ticketing them.

im done on this topic. agree to disagree.

Posted by: goldie at July 17, 2009 11:45 AM

quote:

It's called "The Lottery."

i have no problem with the lottery. in a sense it's a stupid people tax. and usually it's poor people on public assistance who buy lottery tickets anyway. and most of the lotto revenue goes to good things like schools and welfare. so it's like they are sorta kinda paying taxes in a sense.

my grandparents used to play lottery. at least 20-30 dollars a day. no wonder we lived in the projects. ridiculous!

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 17, 2009 11:57 AM

I understand that traffic control agents have a hard job. I also understand that, unlike police officers, they are not allowed to use discretion in writing tickets (I presume to avoid corruption). HOWEVER, I have received enough patently fraudulent tickets from TCAs (when my car was legally parked--and NOT when, as is often the case, parking signs are ambiguous) to limit any empathy I might otherwise feel. These tickets are always dismissed when I plead not guilty online, but on a technicality, so that nothing is ever done about the rampant dishonesty of these agents.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 17, 2009 11:58 AM

I believe that if a disabled person is being dropped off or picked up, they can't give a ticket or it will be thrown out in any case. I know there are laws regarding that. But they need id- I'm not disrespecting people with serious illnesses, A person being dropped off at a hospital for dialysis? Is a "meter maid" supposed to make a medical diagnosis? These people get told every story in the book- how are they supposed to tell what's true and what's not? My other question is if this person were dropped off in front of a clinic, I don't understand how anyone was ticketed. Aren't there exceptions for hospitals (and I think churches?) for drop offs?

But unloading kids? Everyone has kids- should all parents get exceptions so everything is for their convenience? And this issue isn't if you're locked out of your car- it's where you put the car before you got locked out.

the point is, traffic agents are not allowed to make judgment calls. Why should they lose their job for your convenience? You're asking too much.

Posted by: bxgrl at July 17, 2009 12:05 PM

Bob:

Do you reall think it's dishonesty and not incompetence?

Posted by: Polemicist at July 17, 2009 12:06 PM

Or pressure to meet a quota- even if the tickets get thrown out?

Posted by: bxgrl at July 17, 2009 12:23 PM

Polemicist,

A mix of both. I'd guess that traffic control agents are under so much pressure from supervision to produce revenue that they write spurious tickets when they can't find enough real offenses. Fortunately they often are not very bright, their fraud is poorly done, and the tickets can be dismissed easily. That's not to say that MOST tickets aren't for real offenses, just that most of the parking tickets I get are phony, no doubt because I'm careful about parking legally, not because I'm especially virtuous, but because I'm cheap and don't want to pay fines.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 17, 2009 12:25 PM

bxgrl,

I seldom disagree with you, but committing fraud IS dishonest, even if it's under pressure from supervisors.In fact, AFAIK filing a false report is a misdemeanor. Of course nothing is ever done, even though large numbers of tickets are dismissed, because the supervisors encouraging this dishonest behavior are promoted from within and, presumably, know, and encourage, all the tricks.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 17, 2009 12:31 PM

I have received tickets that had no basis in the law, and they were always written by police officers, not by traffic enforcement agents. Always thrown out. Do you think the cops are punished??? Not bloody likely.

Posted by: rf at July 17, 2009 12:39 PM

Do not pay. And when you apear the guilty verdict - still do not pay.

See:
http://www.yournabe.com/articles/2009/07/16/bay_ridge/bay_ridge_courier/news/bay_ridge_courier_newsjvcfwmz07162009.txt
From this weeks Bay Ridge Courier.

“Proves to me that we have an administrative nightmare in the adjudication of tickets. It’s clear that DOT put out a rule that exempts ... ticketing, yet we have a haphazard decision process from the administrative law judges. Some dismiss the tickets. Others find the motorists guilty, when the rule is clear that these sites are exempt.”

This must stop. Do not pay any of these types of tickets!

Posted by: SenatorStreet at July 17, 2009 12:59 PM

Broken link - sorry. Here it is:

http://www.yournabe.com/articles/2009/07/16/bay_ridge/bay_ridge_courier/news/bay_ridge_courier_newsjvcfwmz07162009.txt

Posted by: SenatorStreet at July 17, 2009 1:02 PM

bob- and supervisors encouraging all the tricks surprises you? :-)

Maybe the problem is the city doesn't discriminate between tickets written legally and simply writing tickets. If they did, traffic agents would have the burden of making sure the tickets they give are for breaking the law. But the city deals in numbers- they tout the numbers of tickets written to show how much more "successful" they are at their jobs. the ral story they would rather you not know.

Posted by: bxgrl at July 17, 2009 1:28 PM

I wasn't hit but my partner was. Boo DOT!

Posted by: AracelyC at July 17, 2009 1:49 PM

I have owned cars and or motorcycles in this town for 35 years, 10 in Manhattan. I have never gotten a parking ticket that was fraudulent. In fact If I get one every five years it's a lot.

Posted by: denton at July 17, 2009 5:16 PM

We also received some during the period when the alternate street parking regulations were not supposed to be in effect. We appealed them and they were all overturned. Instead of going through all the hassle of appealing more tickets we simple went back to following the old regulations even though we didn't have to.

It seriously made me wonder whether the people who issue the parking tickets are all part of some great big conspiracy or whether they're all just incompetent. Maybe it's both. I'm sure they were able to collect on a number of the improperly issued tickets.

Posted by: LimestoneKid at July 17, 2009 6:36 PM

bxgrl,

Not surprised, just disgusted.

Denton,

You've been lucky.

Limestone kid,

Definitely both and I'm sure many people pay when they're not guilty, not realizing how easy it is to successfully plead not guilty on line [assuming you're actually not guilty, although pleading not guilty when you ARE will get you an automatic offer of a reduced fine before your defense is read].

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 17, 2009 7:00 PM

I'm too tired to read all the comments above. I just wanted to mention one of those terrible winter snow'n'ice storms when Bloomberg suspended alternate parking. It was announced non-stop on TV and radio. Our car was under a snow bank from both what fell from the sky and the ploughs going back and forth on Greene Avenue.

The weather was just right for all this snow to harden into an impossible, iced layer that you could barely chip away at. I called the 88th and the person who answered the phone told me that, indeed, we had nothing to worry about.

Meanwhile, when we went out to check out the state of the car, some idiot of a meter reader had mananged to yanked up one of the frozen-down, snow'n'ice buried windshield wipers just enough to damage it and slip a bright orange ticket under it. The whole block was one huge white/grey catepillar of cars covered in snow, ice and street muck. There was no way anyone was getting out of there THAT day.

Call back to the 88th and they told us to ignore the ticket...and I guess the damage to the wiper...

Hhhh...

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at July 17, 2009 7:08 PM

A month ago, I was parked on a 'clear' of violations Throop Av (Bed Stuy) and the street cleaning was designated for 11am till 12.30pm (Mon and Thurs) I was issued a ticket at 8.14am for a Monday parking. I disputed the violation in person at the DOF -Downtown Brooklyn with pictures and all. After waiting for about 2 hours, the Judge told me to go take a pic of the entire block where I was parked AND to come back and show this to him?? I am self employed and this is just too time consuming. I was told that the reduced fine is applicable as I have asked for a hearing with the Judge. So, I just paid as there is NO way I could afford another 4 hours at the Department of Finance!!

Can anyone help???

Posted by: ban at July 18, 2009 1:13 PM

ban,

You would have been much better off pleading not guilty by mail (AFAIK you can't do it on line if you want to include images or documents]. I can't imagine why anyone would want to waste the time it takes to go in person.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 19, 2009 1:30 PM

« Open Thread Conversion Planned for 201 Front Street »

July 17, 2009

Meter Maids Jump the Gun in Fort Greene

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