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July 28, 2009

Lefferts Place Threatened by Healthcare Developer

86-Lefferts-Place-0709.jpg
A company wanting to build an out-of-context low-income independent living facility for seniors on a lot at 86 Lefferts Place that runs through the block to Atlantic Avenue has residents up in arms. The company, CNR Healthcare, is trying to get the block rezoned from R6B to R7A to enable them to build the center under Section 202 of HUD only a couple of years after the entire area was downzoned to prevent something like this happening. The juxtaposition would be particularly jarring given that the new six-story building would be plunked down between the landmarked yellow house at 70 Lefferts place and the old green house at 96 Lefferts Place. Ouch! According to residents who've tried to work towards some kind of compromise, the company has shown no interest in working with the community to create a more palatable alternative, opting instead to push for a rezoning. The whole thing sounds pretty darn shady to us and we hope that there will be some politicians who stand up and oppose it. In the meantime, you can express your opposition to this spot-rezoning proposal by signing this petition. GMAP P*Shark




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Comments

"A company wanting to build an out-of-context low-income independent living facility for seniors on a lot at 86 Lefferts Place that runs through the block to Atlantic Avenue has residents up in arms. "

Brownstoner your choice of words kills me. Do we leave the "out-of-context" lot there? Plus you will have 60 Million Baby Boomers retiring soon. They will need this type of facility.

Oh and how about 70 Lefferts! Remember someone brought this property for 2.4 Million only to be stopped by LPC Nazi's. Now it's a rotting structure that needs to be torn down.

Maybe Brownstoner wants then to build more condos, Jackass!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at July 28, 2009 9:40 AM

"out of context" okaaaaay.

also, anyone railing against housing for low income elderly has a special place in hell for them.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 28, 2009 9:42 AM

Apparently What doesn't understand the phrase "out of context." I saw it before when he ranted about my use of a certain word.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 28, 2009 9:42 AM

" rezoned from R6B to R7A to enable them to build the center under Section 202 of HUD "

i fully understood your Twitter post from yesterday, but need a glossary for this one.

Posted by: goldie at July 28, 2009 9:45 AM

This is of great concern to me and my neighbors since we just fought to have the zoning changed to prevent this size of development. We are also irked by the fact that we have been getting incorrect information from all levels - CNR, Community Board 2 (CB2), and local community leaders We have not been getting the entire set of facts for this proposed project.

About 2 weeks ago, fliers were distributed throughout Lefferts Place regarding CNR's proposed development. The name of the developer on the flier was misspelled which made it difficult for us to conduct our own due diligence prior to the meeting. At the meeting, CNR never told us that they were looking to upzone our block to build their project. They pitched it originally as a variance, which we would still oppose We only learned of their plan to rezone our block when we phoned the attorney for CNR. Their attorney disclosed that they are actually seeking to upzone the site up from the recent R6B designation, which was supported unanimously by all Brooklyn politicians, up to R7A the same zoning as Atlantic, Fulton and Myrtle Avenues.

The rezoning was apparently an easier route for them to go since it would be harder for them to get a variance. The variance would require them to prove 5 different criteria, which given the size of the lot and the circumstances surrounding their development, would be hard for them to prove. This upzoning would set a precedent for the rest of downsized Fort Greene and Clinton Hill and really any residential neighborhood in Brooklyn. If this goes through, developers would be encouraged to change zoning laws in order to make their projects more lucrative, even though the size and scope of the projects are contrary to what the current residents want.

We asked if perhaps they could scale back the project so that it fits within the current zoning laws. The rep for CNR said there is no way they can alter their current application with HUD. They stated that they had to stick with the original application they submitted to HUD in 2000. They stated that any attempt to alter the current renderings may cause them to loose the HUD funding. Now mind you the original 2000 application includes renderings which has a building with 76 studio units and 22 one bedroom units. But in the meeting this week they said the building would contain a total of 71 units. So they have already modified the original application they submitted to HUD, even though they said they could not alter it now. Or they are lying. The bottom line is once the area is rezoned CNR can propose a building even twice the size of the one they are proposing to us. Other developers can build large scale buildings on Lefferts Place that are out of context.

When we spoke to the project manager at HUD reviewing their application, they told us CNR’s application was approved in 2000 and a firm commitment for the project was issued in 2002. The firm commitment has expired so CNR has to re-submit a portion of their application. This application would have to comply with current zoning laws. We were told that CNR would have to either have to change their current plans to conform to the current zoning laws or get the current zoning laws changed to conform to the project they are currently proposing to us. This means that they can in fact downsize the proposal. Contrary to what they are telling us, the proposed project does not have to be this large out of zone building that CNR says it has to be in order to retain the funding. This leads me to believe that the only reason CNR will not attempt to adhere to the current zoning laws is strictly because they are trying to make as much money as possible for this project. They do not care about this community.

Then most disturbingly John Dew, the chair of Community Board 2 (CB2), was also in attendance at the meeting representing CB2. He voiced his support for the project and stated that CB2 fully supported this plan, even though CB2 supported the rezoning that just occurred in 2007. Suddenly now they are against the R6B zoning on Lefferts Place. Residents asked him about the potential land marking application and how this could affect this project, and he actually said with a straight face that there is no application for an extension of the land marking in Clinton Hill districts and that he has never heard of any attempt at one. I"m assuming this means CB2 had some sort of meeting on giving the thumbs up for this project before it was even presented and more importantly before it was discussed with us!! Am I wrong or are they supposed to review these projects AFTER they are submitted for review? If that is not the case, shouldn’t they at least talk to the residents of this block and the community about whether or not WE support this rezoning since we are the ones who will be directly affected before making a decision?

The residents of Lefferts Place spent a lot of time and effort basically denying Chris Morris the right to develop a large building on the adjacent lot which holds the Yellow House. Tish James supported us. This was a density issue as well, they were trying to destroy the "neighborhood feel" of this block. This was done before the rezoning that happened in 2007. Now they are going to force an even larger building right next door to the house that they so readily helped landmark??? After they rezoned the block??? This CNR development would change the character of this block forever, making it another Atlantic Avenue!

Posted by: brokestone at July 28, 2009 9:53 AM

The issue here is not to deny low income housing to anyone. It's to have them build it within the zoning laws that were put in place in 2007. CNR can do this, HUD said they can do this, but they wont. The zoning laws were designed specifically to encourage developers to build large scale properties on the empty lots on Fulton and Atlantic.

This is about CNR, and it's desire to make as much money as possible out of this project, regardless of the any laws in place.

Posted by: brokestone at July 28, 2009 9:59 AM

"This is of great concern to me and my neighbors since we just fought to have the zoning changed to prevent this size of development. "

Why because you feel Lefferts Pl. is "Special"?

"This was a density issue as well, they were trying to destroy the "neighborhood feel" of this block."

So just leave a Hole In The Ground???!!!

WHAT?! Lefferts Pl. between Grand and Classon is a God Damn Dump! That building would improve that block. Oh God what a bunch of Jackasses!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at July 28, 2009 10:00 AM

Can we see the plans for this building anywhere?

Posted by: wasder at July 28, 2009 10:00 AM

What, take a moment to read brokestone's post and try to bring your game up a few notches.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 28, 2009 10:00 AM

what politician is going to oppose housing for elderly?
gotta be kidding.
What would be a more 'palatable alternative'?

Posted by: Petebklyn at July 28, 2009 10:01 AM

i think i might be agreeing with the what on this one. this is some serious NIMBY asshattage to the max.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 28, 2009 10:02 AM

I don't even have to defend the NIMBY assault here as obviously it has nothing to do with the zoning laws. These are in fact, laws, which we all have to abide by, unless of course your head honcho makes over $800,000 a year. Like the head of CNR does. I'm sure he will get a big raise if these deal goes through.

All the negative responses have zero credence so far. Which is disappointing in a way.

Posted by: brokestone at July 28, 2009 10:13 AM

Really, Mr. What? You think Lefferts between Grand and Classon is a "dump"? I love Lefferts Place. I do hear you about the green house and the yellow house, though. These are treasures as far as I am concerned, I don't care who lives in the neighborhood. But sometimes Landmarks makes things so difficult for people, treasures turn into trash, which is a loss for all of us.

Along with other biases you have detected on this site, I sense a bit of age bias here from time to time as well. I have to smile just thinking about the outraged denials that comment will provoke, but sorry people, it's embedded in your prose.

So I would think, along the lines of Jane Jacobs, that the best neighborhood is a "mixed" neighborhood, in every sense. That means some old folks around might be a good thing. But I also think that the folks who want to keep this building from being too tall, too large and too--yes--UGLY have a point. No reason why the place can't be built for the intended purpose and look like it "belongs" too. Lots of other cities do it the world over.

Posted by: dylanfan at July 28, 2009 10:15 AM

I know that block, it's adorable, even in its crumbling state. One of those places in Brooklyn where you can see what it must have been like in the 1820's or so, when it really was farmland and single-family houses. New York is sad that way sometimes, because the land is worth so much more than the houses or the space that places like this can't exist -- or continue to exist -- without landmarking to preserve them. (And even then they're too expensive to actually renovate and live in.)

It'd be nice, although unrealistic I guess, if the vacant lot was turned into a community garden and the houses were single-family. Why couldn't the senior center be put on one of the vacant lots on Fulton instead?

Posted by: Heather at July 28, 2009 10:22 AM

Fundamentally

New York needs housing. This developer is willing to put up low-income senior housing for 100-200 people on a VACANT lot.

It is immoral to use aesthetic considerations to block a needed public accommodation.

If you want a community garden, buy the land yourself.

Posted by: thwackamole1 at July 28, 2009 10:25 AM

I have to agree with dylanfan. Although my feeling is that the objections are less about what the facility is than what it will look like. I live around the corner from such a facility. I understand that a rather magnificent house was torn down many years ago to build it but the facility is very well kept and of great benefit to the people who live there. Yes its out of context, but it's more important to help people than to worry about aesthetics. Hopefully the zoning will not be changed or if it is, it will only be allowed if the developer follows certain design requirements to make it more palatable to the neighborhood.

Posted by: bxgrl at July 28, 2009 10:27 AM

I do think that if rezoning to avoid large development was a decision that was made regardless of the purpose of said development, we ought to consider this spot-re-rezoning without regard to the merits of low income elderly housing.

Low income elderly housing is as politically volatile an issue as banning smoking in day care facilities for toddlers, which is to say, of course it's a good idea. Whether it's a good idea for this block of Lefferts Place needs to be discussed as a matter of landmarks and historical context, which was the reasoning behind the original rezoning.

It's one thing to be flexible but it's another thing to be completely hypocritical (I am looking in your direction, Johnny Dew-Dew).

This block of Lefferts Place is not a dump, though it's not as beautiful as the one between Grand and St James. Also, the Lefferts Hotel no longer leaves a mint on your pillow as a welcoming gesture.

Posted by: Lothar of the Clinton Hill People at July 28, 2009 10:33 AM

"These are in fact, laws, which we all have to abide by ..."

Let me see if I get this, you had the zoning changed in 2007, they want to change it again in 2009.

By your own logic, wasn't the pre-2007 zoning also "the law" which "we all have to abide by?"

So basically what I'm getting is that when you want to change the rules to suit you, it's OK to change them, but if you don't like a change that somebody else is proposing, then whatever happens to be the rule at the time is "the law" which is immutable?

I have no dog in this fight, but I want you to see that your argument sucks.

Posted by: Jail_Bait at July 28, 2009 10:34 AM

"Really, Mr. What? You think Lefferts between Grand and Classon is a "dump"?"

No I'm sorry it's a F**ing Dump!

"So I would think, along the lines of Jane Jacobs, that the best neighborhood is a "mixed" neighborhood, in every sense. "

Jane Jacobs never lived in the Ghetto! GTFOOH with that crap!

"That means some old folks around might be a good thing. But I also think that the folks who want to keep this building from being too tall, too large and too--yes--UGLY have a point."

Well then the ClusterF*** on Washington Between Dekalb and Myrtle is "OUT OF CONTEXT" ! Where was your ass on that one?!

That lot had a huge Victorian on it, Beautiful house! It was turned into a funeral home then abandon! It's a dump and this place will be a improvement..

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at July 28, 2009 10:34 AM

"NY needs housing..." !?!?
What era are you in?

Posted by: Arkady at July 28, 2009 10:36 AM

It is not immoral to oppose this structure. It's immoral to support CNR so that they can use tax dollars to make as much of a profit as possible. There are actually vacant lots right behind this site on Atlantic, owned by the same landlord. CNR can go build any size building they want there, without changing the zoning laws. They are choosing this site because it guarantees them the most profit, hence money in the executives pockets. They should take this HUD money, and go work with the city on the hundreds of empty lots all over Brooklyn that were just re-zoned for large buildings. We dont need a 10 or 15 story building on this block. Then CNR can do what they want. This is a GOOD neighborhood. Most residents have lived here for over 30 years because they WANT to.

Posted by: brokestone at July 28, 2009 10:39 AM

Yes, bxgrl, you are right to point out that in this case the objections are more about looks than use. And I don't think it would be such a big deal to make this place look like it fits in. Can it really be that much cheaper to build some ugly box? I mean, I've made a lot of Ikea kitchens in my day, and people ask me to design theirs! They can't believe they are looking at a 5K kitchen.

The possibility that an underlying cause of distress is that it also "just doesn't look good" to have all those old people out there sunning themselves on a summer day--

I'm a very aesthetically driven person, but the fetishization of a particular aesthetic I see on this site would include the banishment of old ladies--especially poor-to-middle-income ones!

I was so sorry to see the Graham Home for Old Ladies get turned into condos. I planned on rehabbing it for me and a few of my friends; commune, not condo.

Posted by: dylanfan at July 28, 2009 10:41 AM

I was lost on the twitter comment yesterday, but I'm fluent in zoning - so for those of you who want to understand what's really going on here: R6B allows a 2.0 FAR, max bldg hieght of 50' after a setback at 40'. R7A allows for 4.0 FAR and a max bldg hight of 80' after a setback at 65'. So these people are basically arguing about 30' of bldg height versus housing for poor old people.

Posted by: bkre at July 28, 2009 10:42 AM

First off - the people on Lefferts Place that disagree with the proposed development are not a bunch of NIMBYs since we already have an affordable complex on our block - which by the way started out as affordable housing for low income seniors. Currently it is not one.

Secondly - the zoning change that they are proposing does not bring the zoning back to what it was pre-2007. It is essentially zoning a very residential and historic block to the same zoning designation as Atlantic, Fulton and Myrtle Aves!!! This does not make sense.

Lastly - Atlantic, Fulton and Myrtle were rezoned specifically to support projects like these. In fact affordable complexes are going up all over Atlantic Ave. There are still many empty lots on those streets. Why should Lefferts Place be singled out from the 85 blocks in Fort Greene and Clinton Hill that just got their streets re-zoned to R6B. It doesn't make sense!

Posted by: Leffertslodger at July 28, 2009 10:43 AM

thank you thewackmole1!

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 28, 2009 10:46 AM

What I didn't think you gave a hoot about architecture? Are you getting soft?

Posted by: brokestone at July 28, 2009 10:48 AM

Maybe Jane Jacobs never lived in the "Ghetto" but I spent the first eighteen years of my life there, and what "Ghettos" prove is that mixed age race class etc. etc. is best for keeping a neighborhood alive and preventing the clusterf***s like Washington. I'm not active in this stuff, so I don't know about that one; I was just commenting on this thread as someone who likes that little pocket of Clinton Hill a lot.

Posted by: dylanfan at July 28, 2009 10:50 AM

About once or twice a day Brownstoner makes a comment that seems straight from DIBs' mouth. That is, an asinine comment...

Posted by: cornerbodega at July 28, 2009 10:51 AM

wait a sec....Brownstoner says proposing a 6 story and
brokestone says 10-15 story.

Posted by: Petebklyn at July 28, 2009 10:52 AM

Methinks the developers are in the process of sneaky doings. As we in Crown Hts have learned, the best way to quell opposition by the community, is for the city, or a developer to use the absolutely necessary function of that building as a shield to obscure the shady doings used to get their way. Of course elder housing is needed. Of course the homeless need shelter, and recovering substance abusers need a place to live. And, in this case, it doesn't seem as if the opposition is to having the housing, it's to the size of it, and the way that size is being rammed down the community's throat. By making it look as if the Lefferts Place people are a bunch of NIMBY's, or are against senior housing, the developers are forcing them to spend valuable time and energy defending themselves and proving a negative, ie: "we're not Nimby's", instead of "we are against the size of this project and the way it is being done". That is so not right, and in the end, who suffers the most? Seniors who need housing, and a community that has worked hard to improve and grow. Both could easily live together in a project designed to work within the confines of the current zoning, and the historic nature of the block. Instead this will end up being a long, expensive and rancorous fight, for no good reason at all, except greed and maximum profit.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at July 28, 2009 10:53 AM

we did not change the zoning, it was the city, and every politician in Brooklyn backed this zoning change. look it on line.

R6B was assigned to some 86 blocks.

we are not arguing against housing for old people bkre, they can put in a facility that matches the zoning. They don't want to because the bigger the facility, the more money they get from HUD. That is not the argument at all. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why they just can't build something within zone?

you can only change the zoning for the entire block.

Posted by: brokestone at July 28, 2009 10:55 AM

"The possibility that an underlying cause of distress is that it also "just doesn't look good" to have all those old people out there sunning themselves on a summer day--" We never see that in the facility by me. The front of the building is not designed for that, and they have balconies, and possibly a garden in the back. But I grew up in projects where all the older folk would sit out in the summer, and they do it on my street- I love it. Of course when you're a kid and they report to your mother every time you used a bad word or misbehaved, it lost a bit of its charm :-).

brokestone- why would putting the facility on this street make the building more profitable? I think is more because Atlantic is so noisy and its not very residential in that section either. Don't get me wrong- I think the healthcare provider is behaving like a shortsighted ass, but I can see why they want to put the facility on Lefferts and not on Atlantic.

Posted by: bxgrl at July 28, 2009 10:56 AM

"The whole thing sounds pretty darn shady to us and we hope that there will be some politicians who stand up and oppose it."

How is it "Shady" Brownstoner? Is it "Shady" like the other Condos in Brooklyn?!

Man I can't wait for the Fall! I can't wait to see the look on your faces..

The What

DSomeday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at July 28, 2009 11:01 AM

i take that back re 10-15 stories i was looking through my window at that giant glass apartment building between fulton and atlantic on vanderbuilt or whatever street that is when i typed that. got that thing is huge. They originally proposed a 6 story but now they are trying to get the zoning change and can build up to the maximum specs of size and shape for R7A.

This project is still going to be too big for this block.

Those of you that are really trying to throw the NIMBY attack at me should petition for CNR to change the zoning laws and build this next to them on their block. And every other developer once that zoning has been changed. I'm sure they would be happy for the support.

Why try to deter residents from attending meetings? The people on this block are charitable good people who do a lot for the community. There are a LOT of seniors living on this block. Why would CNR tell give us misleading information and lie about the process if they were concerned about long term senior citizen housing and our community? They are not.

Posted by: brokestone at July 28, 2009 11:09 AM

"Two months ago we learned that Clermont Greene, the TK-unit through-block development at 174 Vanderbilt Avenue in Fort Greene, had gotten its C of O; then last month came the news that the building was 25 percent sold. Now, as of July 16, we can report that the first closing has occurred. The apartment in question is a 1,210-square-footer that went for $772,000. Presumably there's more to come in the near future."

This is a new thread started by Brownstoner! On one hand he claims about "Preserving Neighborhoods" and on the other hand Jerking off to half sold condo projects.

Man you can't make this stuff up..

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at July 28, 2009 11:10 AM

bxgrl: Could it simply be that they've already bought this particular parcel of land? Selling it and starting from scratch by buying a new parcel on Atlantic or elsewhere may not seem feasible to them if they've already invested a lot of time and money in planning to build on this one.

Posted by: Park Sloper at July 28, 2009 11:14 AM

"Methinks the developers are in the process of sneaky doings. As we in Crown Hts have learned, the best way to quell opposition by the community, is for the city, or a developer to use the absolutely necessary function of that building as a shield to obscure the shady doings used to get their way."

Sounds a lot like what happened with Atlantic Yards, what with all the promises of low-income housing that will probably never get built.

Posted by: Park Sloper at July 28, 2009 11:15 AM

bxgrl,

CNR has a sweetheart deal on a lease that they signed on this property back in around 1995 or so. It took a few years for them to organize and once they did the market truly took off in NYC. The landowner then tried opt out of the lease agreement. That court case was just settled in February. So they now have a lease at way below market prices, and new zoning laws. But they don't have a valid argument regarding the zoning laws that were in place in 2000 because no certs were issued by DOB. So now they have to conform to zoning laws. They will take the HUD money, which is not based on how much they have a lease signed for, build what they can build and disperse any leftover HUD money as to the members of CNR. They don't take the extra HUD money and put in extra facilities making this the best senior housing complex in town.

They don't care about location. Most of their facilities are located in the Bronx in non residential or large zoned areas. They took us on a bus tour to show them to us. Not one area had anything to do with community or making seniors feel like part of one. Everything was about exclulsion. They are actually going to stick a sitting garden in the BACK of this proposed facility, away from local residents, next to the WHITE CASTLE and a proposed new nightclub 2 doors down from there. They don't care about noise from Atlantic avenue.

Posted by: brokestone at July 28, 2009 11:25 AM

What, Clermont Greene is on Myrtle, a street zoned for such developments so there is no inconsistency there. I agree with bxgrl and others that this could be built for its intended purpose and be in context and that would be a good result.

Posted by: wasder at July 28, 2009 11:38 AM

brokestone- interesting. Question- is the block part of a landmark district? Or at the 2 houses individually landmarked?

Posted by: bxgrl at July 28, 2009 11:39 AM

only the Yellow house in landmarked. The green house is not because at the time only the yellow one was in peril.

It seems that whenever there is an initiative for Clinton Hill, Lefferts Place gets left out in the cold. We were left out of the Landmarking district , we were not part of the initial phase of new parking regulations (but we are in phase 3), and now we're getting pushed out of the new zoning regulations put in place to encourage affordable housing on Atlantic Avenue and Fulton Street. Which is made all the more possible because we are not landmarked.

But that is a different can of worms as I am not aware if landmarking prevents zoning from being overturned? But I suppose it would require other regulations and probably keep CNR away as they do not want to spend the money required to make such a facility.

Posted by: brokestone at July 28, 2009 11:48 AM

"What, Clermont Greene is on Myrtle, a street zoned for such developments so there is no inconsistency there. I agree with bxgrl and others that this could be built for its intended purpose and be in context and that would be a good result."

Im talking about that Clusterf*** on Washington between Myrtle and Park! Down the street from Kum Kau's..

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at July 28, 2009 12:00 PM

I agree with you about that building on Washington What. Hideously out of context and way too big for the surrounding neighborhood.

Posted by: wasder at July 28, 2009 12:05 PM

"I agree with you about that building on Washington What. Hideously out of context and way too big for the surrounding neighborhood."

Oh I've got something better Wasder! You better hope the money does not run out and they finish it! There are ton of Condos where the financing has blown up!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at July 28, 2009 12:10 PM

What's the point in having zoning at all if it can be overturned so easily. The whole point of zoning is to ensure the quality of life in our neighborhoods is reasonable with regard to noise, parking etc. This makes no sense at all. We already have several large apartment buildings on the block. Something has to eventually go into that spot. NO ONE is arguing the senior citizens point. If they built it to the current zone, no one would be having this conversation. The other thing that really annoys me is that they are railroading us into a decision. CNR wanted us to approve it on the spot the night we met with Cb2, John Dew coming out saying that CB2 are in support of it, and basically said take this or you might end up with a methodone clinic??! He also lied to us saying that there was no landmarking application in, when we knew that to be completely untrue. I thought the community boards were supposed to be on the side of the community.

Posted by: leffertsgirl at July 28, 2009 12:10 PM

When Jane Jacobs lived on Hudson St. it wasn't the fashionable boudlevard it is today. Most of the buildings were still manufacturing plants. The change in the far west Village didn't start until early 80s when Jerry Kretschmer (sp?) converted 505 Hudson - the first residential make-over west of Hudson St. & by that time JJ was long gone.

Posted by: Arkady at July 28, 2009 12:11 PM

brokestone- you should contact the people in CHNA and CHRM, if you haven't already. Maybe they can offer some help or advice. I believe if your district is landmarked, that p[uts restrictions on new construction. You can contact Landmarks and check about applying as a block.YOu need a really strong association of your own to bring pressure to bear on the board.

But bear in mind, the idea of fighting housing for low income seniors makes you seem less than sympathetic- that's an uphill battle. People will weigh that against your argument of zoning and charm- it's not a good position to be in. Believe me, I do know.

All that said, if it does happen, you may be able to get the company to give something back to the community- such as gardens or whatever. And realistically- a residence for the elderly is not the worst thing that could happen- out of context or not. (refer to CHRM to see what I mean).

Posted by: bxgrl at July 28, 2009 12:20 PM

Lefferts Place is part of the Clinton Hill South Historic District and is primarily comprised of low rise townhouses and villas dating back to the mid 19th Century. The proposed development calls for the construction of a six to eight story building (presumably much higher with the inclusion of affordable housing) that would be north of 100,000 square feet and consist of approximately 100 apartment units. The proposed building would tower over the adjacent Elwell House as well as all neighboring low-rise brownstones, limestones and villas.

Posted by: DoubleBlackDiamond at July 28, 2009 1:15 PM

CNR's website says they're non-profit. I believe they're unionized. Both good things. How does Head Honch make $800,000/yr (assuming its from this gig alone?) That doesn't add up to me.
I personally don't see why low-income housing for the eldery can 't come in several, to-scale buildings-- why it has to be one monolith or nothing. I think multiple small buildings sounds better, but maybe the financing doesn't work, I don't know.

Posted by: blowfish at July 28, 2009 1:19 PM

The rezoning of Lefferts Place from R6B to R7A will have a devastating impact on the community’s efforts to protect the architectural history of Lefferts Place and establish a dangerous precedent for the rest of Fort Greene – Clinton Hill. It will give developers a green light to acquire property and construct buildings in the R7A district that do not comport to the common scheme and character of our predominantly low-rise brownstone community. The efforts to rezone Lefferts Place may be in the best interest of CNR but it will be in the worst interest of the community which over time will more closely resemble Atlantic Avenue rather than small residential enclave it is today. Many families moved to Lefferts precisely to live in a small residential community. Many of these families will invariably move out and relocate to neighborhoods that are more family oriented and less commercial. Why is the dislocation of families, firmly rooted in the community, in the collective best interest of Lefferts Place and its residents?

Posted by: DoubleBlackDiamond at July 28, 2009 1:24 PM

I have visited the CNR Center for Nursing and Rehabilitation at 520 Prospect Place on at least 25 separate occasions, at all times of the day and night, and I am utterly flabbergasted by the sheer amount of pedestrian and vehicular traffic related to this complex. The traffic is literally non-stop, 24/7, with patients, staff, visitors, ambulance and medical personnel constantly traversing in and out of the facility. The proposed development is wholly inappropriate for a small residential street such as Lefferts Place. It will institutionalize the block, forever change its character and drive away families who prefer to live in a strictly residential community.

Posted by: DoubleBlackDiamond at July 28, 2009 1:33 PM

wait a sec--- Brownstoner says plan is for "low-income independent living facility for seniors " -- that is not same thisn a Nursing and Rehab center. Why are you using that comparison. I', picturing the bldg similar to Carroll Gardens between Hoyt/Bond on Carroll st I think. WHich also
is 'too tall' according to present day neighborhood desires for bldg height. DOn't think is so bad - and the housing for this group is badly needed---at that age who wants a 3rd fllor walkup.
Also...there is a nursing home (and hospital in Cobble Hill)
--don't think the quality of life around there is so horrible.

Posted by: Petebklyn at July 28, 2009 2:12 PM

Blowfish,

Non Profit is the most misleading term of all time. All it means is a company is not allowed to show a profit. An employee paycheck is not considered profit. Profit is when they have money left over in the bank at the end of a calendar year. Anyone can start a non profit, and earn a salary. The more money the NP brings in the more money you can pay yourself. The salary is public knowledge and anyone can look it up of you do some research. 800k is a very high salary for a non profit position.

Posted by: brokestone at July 28, 2009 2:28 PM

As a Lefferts Place homeowner, no one I know is against senior housing. In fact, the multi-generational, economically diverse nature of the block is what attracted many of us in the first place. What is problematic is the scale of the proposed project and all of its attendant issues -- significantly increased pedestrian and vehicular traffic, service trucks, ambulances, noise. What is now a nice block where residents actually sit outside and chat with their neighbors will become a place where everyone stays behind closed doors because of the congestion and noise.

Posted by: keep at July 28, 2009 2:48 PM

"significantly increased pedestrian and vehicular traffic, service trucks, ambulances, noise. What is now a nice block where residents actually sit outside and chat with their neighbors will become a place where everyone stays behind closed doors because of the congestion and noise.
"---
if the proposal is for a 70-95 apt bldg for independent living for seniors your imagination of what would happen to the block sounds grossly exagerated. Downright hysterical. 100 or so old farts on the block aren't going to cause much pedestrian traffic nor are they going to be speeding down the block in their corvettes.

Posted by: Petebklyn at July 28, 2009 3:07 PM

Petebklyn,

The main issue is the rezoning of the block. Once it is rezoned all buildings on Lefferts Place can be knocked down with the exception of the Landmarked Yellow House and this will become one giant block of buildings that look like the hideous monstrosity on Fulton and Classon instead of an architecturally AND culturally diverse neighborhood that is Lefferts Place today. Then other residential blocks in Brooklyn can be rezoned in the same manner once the legal precedent will be set.

We already have one out of context building on our block, as mentioned, on the corner of Classon and Frankin that was created just for the same purpose, 202 housing. 3 years later it was no longer a senior housing 202 facility.

This new facility is being proposed with only 9 parking spaces as well. 9 spaces for approx 100 tenants, the super, the employees of the doctor's offices downstairs, and any nurses or home health aides, some of who may have 24 hour care and any visitors. I think that is also a density and quality of life issue for Lefferts Place. We asked about more spaces and they said no. CNR doesn't care about this issue and would not make any alterations because they are making too much money and that is why they want to rezone Lefferts Place.

Now with the new zoning laws CNR wants to put in place other developers can buy up the rest of Lefferts Place and build more of these large buildings. CNR can even build right on through to Atlantic Avenue.

It's not fair to the residents of Lefferts Place to have to swallow this pill of rezoning our block. How bout we just stop making Lefferts Place the dumping ground of Clinton Hill.

Posted by: brokestone at July 28, 2009 3:34 PM

It is not just the additional 100+ residents I am concerned about. These residents will have visitors, medical attendants, support staff, many of whom will walk, drive and park on Lefferts Place (ie, increased traffic and noise). Presumably the facility will provide services that require deliveries such as linen and meals. Those delivery trucks will be loading and unloading, double parked on my block spewing fumes and blocking traffic (ie, increased traffic and noise). Elderly people get sick often, so I expect that ambulances will be making many more visits to Lefferts Place (ie, increased traffic and noise). Realistic, yes. Hysterical, no.

Posted by: keep at July 28, 2009 3:35 PM

For many of you, this is an academic exercise. "How can you be against a nursing facility with senior housing?" For those of us who live on Lefferts and love the nabe, this is REAL. This is not an academic excercise. How does this project benefit Lefferts Place? How will this impact Lefferts Place and its residents? Let's examine:

1. Parking. Only nine (9) parking spots have been designated for the CNR site at 86 Lefferts. Yes, nine (9) parking spaces for a proposed development containing approximately 100 units. Lefferts already suffers from a scarcity of on-street parking space. Now the community is expected to welcome with open arms a massive nursing facility and housing complex which will further hinder parking on Lefferts Place? Where will all the patients, visitors, staff and residents park their cars? Lefferts Place, as a narrow two way street, already suffers a huge problem associated with double park cars which results in bottleneck traffic, increased car exhaust emissions and constant honking throughout the day and night. Where will taxis drivers park their cars? Where will ambulances park? CNR provides transportation to and from their facility. Where will the multitude of Access-A-Ride buses park on Lefferts? Will there be an oval car port in front of the building to accommodate the anticipated high volume of pick-ups and drop-offs? Will CNR request that the Dept of Transportation establish a “No Parking” zone in front of the center thereby further eliminating crucial street-side parking? CNR needs to provide honest and complete answers to the above parking issues. These issues of course will be exacerbated ten fold during the holidays as well as on patient birthdays and periods of declining health where the volume of visitors to the facility is expected increase exponentially. Where will all these visitors park? For all you devil's advocates out there, please answer this question. How is having a CNR center on Lefferts Place, as opposed to Atlantic Avenue or Fulton Street, in the best interest of the community? 85 blocks in Fort Greene and Clinton Hill were downzoned to R6B. Why is Lefferts Place the only block being slated for rezoning by CB2?!?!

2. Traffic. Lefferts Place is a small family oriented community where the sight of children playing in the street is not uncommon. The CNR project will forever change life on Lefferts as we know it and the sight of children enjoying a mid-summer game of two hand touch football in the middle of the street will soon come to an abrupt end. Traffic on Lefferts will become a nightmare as a plethora of vehicles will descend upon our street at all hours of the day, dropping off and picking up residents, patients, visitors and staff, and dropping off deliveries of food as well as medical and office supplies. How anyone could think that a commercial enterprise of this immense size and scope is appropriate for a residential block is beyond my realm of understanding. Again, this complex belongs on Atlantic, Fulton or Myrtle. Lefferts Place? No!

3. Garbage. How will CNR ensure the proper disposal of medical supplies and waste? How often will the center require garbage removal per week and at what time would such removal occur? Will the center have a dedicated space for garbage removal? Indoor or outdoor? On the Lefferts Place side of the complex? Who on this blog would want their children playing outside in front of a hospital?

4. Deliveries. Lefferts Place is a small narrow street. How many times a day does CNR expect deliveries for food, office and medical supplies? Is there any time of day when deliveries will not be permitted (e.g., to abate traffic congestion or reduce noise and air pollution)? Where will all of these trucks park? Will the complex have a dedicated loading dock for deliveries? Where? Again, Lefferts Place is a residential street. Why does anyone on CB2 believe that turning our beloved historic street into Atlantic Avenue (R7A) is in the best interest of the community?

Folks, this is real. This is not an academic exercise. I am not against senior housing. Lefferts Place is a diverse neighborhood with a number of section eight housing buildings in the community, one of which was built as senior housing in 1971. As a mixed income community, Lefferts Place is awesome! However, I am against plopping a hospital in the middle of a small residential neighborhood against the overall preference of the community. Both newbies and long term residents are in agreement - this development is going to destroy our neighborhood.

Posted by: DoubleBlackDiamond at July 28, 2009 4:03 PM

DBD- just wanted to point out- this is not a hospital. It is an independent living facility- so yes there will be times when ambulances will be there but usually the very ill or those incapable of taking care of themselves will be in medical facilities equipped to handle their more complex care.

It's not that I don't sympathize- I really do. My neighborhood is desperately fighting the city on a men's intake center in the Bedford Armory and we already are saturated with 6 times the number of social service beds (shelters, halfway houses, rehab drug centers, etc)as any other neighborhood. We are truly a dumping ground for the City and social services. Despite the Fair Share laws on the books, the city has run roughshod over us time and again. So I do understand what you're up against. that said, in my neighborhood we'd swap in a second that intake center for this facility.

You have excellent questions and maybe its time your community spoke to a lawyer- we did, so there is a lot ongoing- but maybe you can find one to take your case pro bono and put pressure on the CB and especially on Mr. Drew.

Posted by: bxgrl at July 28, 2009 4:19 PM

that is still what I find confusing.
Is it a independent living for seniors are Browstoner said
-or a nursing facility as Double is calling it?
Many of us are familiar with senior independent housing bldgs in our areas don't understand objection even if is couple stories taller than others on block.
If nursing home as others are suggesting than issues are more valid about parking, etc.
Frankly, I'd be more concerned about proposed nightclub on Atlantic.

Posted by: Petebklyn at July 28, 2009 4:30 PM

Petebklyn,

CNR’s HUD financing commitment is predicated on the facility maintaining its senior affordable housing component for a minimum of three years. After three years, CNR will be free to turn the entire complex into a nursing and rehabilitation center (such as 520 Prospect Pl) or do practically anything else with the property. 130 Lefferts Place was developed as senior housing in 1971. After three years the entire building was turned into Section 8 housing. These things are not etched in stone and developers have a lot of leeway. As a result, the community needs to focus on CNR’s long term plans for the facility?

For example, which CNR program will be relocated to Lefferts Place? The Hospice Program? The HIV AIDS Program? The Alzheimer’s Program? The community needs to understand the special needs of these programs and make program specific site visits of dedicated facilities to determine program appropriateness for our residential community. Some programs require more staff (e.g., nurses, therapists, family support and social service personnel, etc.) than others and the transportation needs of both patient and staff varies greatly by program. Knowing which program will be relocated to Lefferts Place is critical in assessing the traffic and parking burdens that will be imposed by this facility.

Posted by: DoubleBlackDiamond at July 28, 2009 4:53 PM

Again, no one is concerned with the fact that they are senior citizens. That's the best part of the equation. The issue is around opening the block up to ANYTHING being built in the future.

It is about a monstrous building parked in the middle of a quiet residential block, blocking out the light, in an already jammed block. No parking, traffic, noise. This is not about not wanting senior citizens.

Looking at the CNR facility on Classon and Prospect Place, it's SO BUSY. With the ambulances, taxis, support staff etc. it acts more like a hospital. Why do this on a residential block? It's insane.

Posted by: leffertsgirl at July 28, 2009 4:57 PM

If the proposed CNR facility is like the one on Prospect and Classon, it's going to be busy with all of the traffic, deliveries, etc that were described. Your concerns are certainly valid. The Classon CNR facility is in a perfect place, as it was built on a semi-commercial block, and when built, was surrounded by a very large hospital complex, which is now housing. A lot of community meetings, including CB8 meetings are held there, and it is a hive of activity. I can't see that on Lefferts Place.

The good thing about all of this is that people are fighting for their neighborhoods, and being active participants, not passive sheep accepting whatever is tossed their way. I sincerely urge you to organize now, create an official organization, so you have a mailing address, an official voice, meet with Tish James and any other representation, and get ready for a long haul fight. Good luck.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at July 28, 2009 5:55 PM


This thread is filled with more brownstoner madness. I normally don't bother with the rabble on this site, but when you provincial know nothings pick on grandma...

1) The R6B zoning designation, with a 2.0 FAR, should be federally illegal throughout the entire country. Nothing Practically every building that is not a house in Brooklyn is built to a density that exceeds this FAR. Such a ridiculously low density smacks in the face of progress, freedom, and sound economic policy. People were knocking down townhouses left and right 100 years ago to build larger buildings than this. Practically every fancy mansion townhouse exceeded this FAR when built, especially those humdingers on Prospect Park West.

2) The R7A zoning district by contrast has a pretty meager FAR of 4.0. We are not talking about a skyscraper here, we are talking about an 80-foot tall building maximally. How can this possibly outrage anyone with a brain? oh I know, everyone like leffertsgirl seems to think that these poor elderly people are going to be parking on her street! Get a grip.

3) The woeful ignorance of this 50-year HUD program is astounding for such pretentious busybodies who seem to profess mastery of economics and social planning. Profit is CAPPED for Section 202 developments. Why do you think they are all built by non-profit developers? I mean, my god, you can go on the nyc.gov website and see for yourself 95% of them are clearly operated by religious charitable organizations and probably 75% in Brooklyn are owned by the catholic church. Brokestone seems to think the folks at Catholic Charities are living large. What a joke. Why do they need the density? There are minimum size requirements and the programs are highly competitive, especially today when the government is maxed out paying for the 750,000 non-elderly poor people in Brooklyn living on a check from uncle sam.

I have to say, I am very grateful the collapse of our economy is continuing at a pace far worse than I ever imagined. You people are so astoundingly selfish, I can say with certainty building housing for elderly people with truly nothing is going to be the least of your troubles. You all will reap what you sow and I have no sympathy for any of you.

Anyway, good troll Brownstoner. You really riled everyone up tonight!

Posted by: Polemicist at July 28, 2009 6:47 PM

And brokestone:

Dude, read the zoning text before you bellow out such BS about a 14-story building being constructed on this site. It's on the internet!

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/zone/zh_r7a.shtml

Posted by: Polemicist at July 28, 2009 6:49 PM

Polemicist, we are in favor of senior housing, we are not in favor of changing our zoning laws for our entire block.

And I appreciate the correction on building heights and did recant my incorrect statement about them earlier.

Posted by: brokestone at July 28, 2009 7:26 PM

Polemicist - again non-profit does not mean not profitable. Non-profit developers DO make a profit. Go on www.guidestar.org and you can look up the salaries of top executives of a multitude of non-profits - even CNR. This is America! These guys would not be this aggressive with this project if it was not lucrative for them. We have to stop laying down and let big corps do what they want with our communities. Then when our communities start to go in decline - we wonder "what happened!" This is a democracy. We decided wanted we want for our community - which was supported and endorsed by all of our political representatives - so why are should we let someone who is looking to turn a profit just come and undo what we worked hard to implement. I don't think this is unreasonable.

Posted by: Leffertslodger at July 28, 2009 8:08 PM

Leffertslodger:

You are proof as to why democracy is, always has been, and will continue to be a failure. The uncomfortable truth is the majority of the residents of your "community" exist entirely as paid voters supporting a plutocratic political class bent on your enslavement. The vast majority of your community residents contributes nothing to society, just as these elderly people contribute nothing due to their age.

None of you has any right to claim any influence over your "community" as none of you built it, and the majority of its residents produce nothing of value in exchange for the money that presently maintains it. Authority does not come from existence despite whatever indoctrination you have received to the contrary.

In any event, it is a moot point. When the welfare checks stop coming and the government can no longer pay their employees to do nothing, and the housing projects crumble before your eyes - the prosperity you have enjoyed due to 3 decades of usurious bubble economics will rapidly crumble. Grandma will be the least of your troubles.

Posted by: Polemicist at July 28, 2009 8:26 PM

Polemicist,

R6B zoning encourages low-rise buildings with greater lot coverage. With the lower FAR of 2.0, R6B typically produces shorter, four story row houses or apartment buildings as typically found in Clinton Hill. Furthermore, R6B districts limit the maximum building height to 50 feet and street wall heights to 40 feet. R6B was adopted to protect historic neighborhoods from unscrupulous developers who have no regards for common scheme, contextual development in Clinton Hill.

Developments in R7A district have a maximum base FAR of 3.45, which could be increased up to 4.60 with the provision of affordable housing pursuant to the Inclusion Housing Program. The R7A contextual height limits, including a maximum base height before setback of 65 feet and a maximum total height of 80 feet would apply to all new development.

The CNR project will have an affordable housing component so the maximum FAR is 4.60. The 86 Lefferts lot size is 165' x 119' or 19,645 sft. This means that the developer can construct a building that is 90,321 sft. CNR aims to acquire the adjacent lot at 96 Lefferts 58' x 123' or 7,134 sft which permits a 32,816 sft building. Bear in mind that CNR would have to demolish the 1854 Greek Revival villa that presently sits on the property. Taken together, CNR has the opportunity to build on a lot of 223' x 123' or 27,429 sft which will allow them to build a facility that is 126,173 sft!!!

Who in their right mind can argue that this humongous monstrosity is in any way appropriate for a residential brownstone street? I think some people need to have their head examined.


Posted by: DoubleBlackDiamond at July 28, 2009 8:51 PM

Polemicist you went too FAR for them. Wake me up when granny gets a key board.

Posted by: jack slade at July 28, 2009 9:54 PM

Polemicist you put together a well balance augment 'cept " The vast majority of your community residents contributes nothing to society". Not everyone in the "hood' is on "Public Assistance". I work ; ^ },

Every thing else is spot on!

"I have to say, I am very grateful the collapse of our economy is continuing at a pace far worse than I ever imagined. You people are so astoundingly selfish, I can say with certainty building housing for elderly people with truly nothing is going to be the least of your troubles. You all will reap what you sow and I have no sympathy for any of you."

This is what's wrong with the Mutant Asset Bubble-- Greed, Denial, Selfishness and Delusion and America very some is going to get her Ass kicked.


The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at July 28, 2009 10:34 PM

Polemicist,

As someone who is living off of public assistance, I don't need any sympathy from you. I would appreciate if you just keep paying your taxes.

Posted by: brokestone at July 29, 2009 3:16 PM

Brokestone, how can we mobilize to stop the rezoning? Sounds like you have a good handle on this whole thing -- how do we contact you?

Posted by: New Guy at August 4, 2009 5:33 PM

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