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July 23, 2009
House of the Day: 186 Washington Avenue Revisited
It's been a tough slog for 186 Washington Avenue, an attractive albeit narrow brownstone on a nice block in Clinton Hill. The listing started out with Aguayo & Huebener in the Spring of 2008 at $1,739,000 before switching to Corcoran with a new price tag of $1,670,000 last September. In November Elliman stepped in a put a number of $1,600,000 on the house to no avail. In June, the price was reduced to $1,500,000. How long can it go? This is a nice place.
186 Washington Avenue [Douglas Elliman] GMAP P*Shark
House of the Day: 186 Washington Avenue [Brownstoner]
Open House Picks 5/2/2008 [Brownstoner]
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Comments
how wide is this place?
Posted by: dittoburg at July 23, 2009 1:15 PM
dittoburg, let's just say Oprah won't be buying it anytime soon.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 23, 2009 1:17 PM
This is for you rich people out there. don't pay over $1M on it. There are other ways to out-bid us regular joes - such as (1) waive mortgage contingency, (2) massive down payment, (3) all-cash offer,....
Posted by: more4less at July 23, 2009 1:21 PM
Eh Browstoner, I said around YOUR HOUSE Jackass!! This overpriced POS is why on Myrtle and no where near Fulton St.!!
Give me houses for sale around YOUR HOUSE OK!!!!!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at July 23, 2009 1:22 PM
Eh Browstoner, I said around YOUR HOUSE Jackass!! This overpriced POS is why on Myrtle and no where near Fulton St.!!
Give me houses for sale around YOUR HOUSE OK!!!!!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at July 23, 2009 1:23 PM
Problem is that it is two small two bedroom duplexes. That set up, and the narrow size, make it tough. If you are a family, you're looking for more than two bedrooms, so now you have to factor in reconfiguring the layout. Might as well buy a larger (read wider) place for similar money if you're doing that...
Posted by: 1842 at July 23, 2009 1:37 PM
Like what? That blue vinyl-sided one up Grand?
Posted by: brownstoner at July 23, 2009 1:45 PM
Wow, that living room on the parlor floor is a bowling ally. How do you arrange furniture in a 9' wide room.
Posted by: JoeBushwick at July 23, 2009 1:46 PM
Brownstoner, have you gone inside that grand ave ppty? corco hasn't posted any pic's
Posted by: more4less at July 23, 2009 1:48 PM
How much could you rent one of those duplexes for?
In park slope you could get maybe $3500/mo for them. Maybe. In PS 321 on a nice block.
Posted by: northsloperenter at July 23, 2009 1:52 PM
See you'll need fat pockets for slim pickings.
Posted by: jack slade at July 23, 2009 1:55 PM
Like what? That blue vinyl-sided one up Grand?
Posted by: brownstoner at July 23, 2009 1:45 PM
And the two on Gates and the one on Lexington and...
Just keep going Jackass...
The What
Someday Brownstoner will get a clue...
Posted by: Return of The What at July 23, 2009 1:58 PM
N'Slope, can't see them getting $3k or more. nice flr-thru's in 20 ft wide brownstone in the nicer sections of this hood is ~2500
Posted by: more4less at July 23, 2009 2:00 PM
That ignore button can't get here fast enough...
Posted by: northsloperenter at July 23, 2009 2:00 PM
quote:
How much could you rent one of those duplexes for?
In park slope you could get maybe $3500/mo for them. Maybe. In PS 321 on a nice block.
LOL youre kidding, right?
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 23, 2009 2:05 PM
A 15 foot wide place in Clinton Hill for $1.5 Mil...
That seems like a good value for money to me.
Mostly because there are so few other compelling things I could do with the $400K up front it's going to require to get that party started.
Posted by: MoneyForNothing at July 23, 2009 2:06 PM
We can clearly see who's running this site.
Posted by: Crooklyn at July 23, 2009 2:08 PM
"LOL youre kidding, right?"
No. Since I'm in the market for a 2 bedroom in pslope, I have a pretty good sense of the rental market.
Do you think 3500 is too much or too little?
Posted by: northsloperenter at July 23, 2009 2:20 PM
I like What's new bossy personality. He's finally learning how to be the dominant one. I guess Chastity Bono can be a role model for someone.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 23, 2009 2:23 PM
3500 (even if) X 2 X 12 X 10 (10X annual rent, the ratio in a normal market) = $0.840M
2000 (real figure) X 2 X 12 X 10 = $0.480M (the dyslexia amount)
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at July 23, 2009 2:23 PM
quote:
Do you think 3500 is too much or too little?
well im in north slope too (5th ave and 1st st) in a duplex 2 bedroom with an additional den and our rent is 2450. i dont see how something similar in the same hood is going to be over a 1000 more. but you go on ahead getting ripped off. it's only money!
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 23, 2009 2:28 PM
lets see, price drop from last spring is about 12%. Clinton hill houses fell 35% 2q yoy (rebny). And Brownstoner making it out like its a good deal?
Posted by: cornerbodega at July 23, 2009 2:28 PM
rob -- is your duplex renovated and full of new appliances? Some people will pay more for new.
And you are not north slope... you are def. in the center. And unless your place is a pit or tiny, it is under market price and you should be nice to your landlord.
I don't think these places could get $3500 along 5th ave. Too noisy and dirty. I'm thinking more like Carroll or 2nd street between 7th and 8th.
*I* wouldn't pay $3500 for a 900 sq. ft. duplex, renovated or not. But knock 15% off and we can talk...
Posted by: northsloperenter at July 23, 2009 2:41 PM
this house is tiny and it's outrageous that brownstoner would make this out to be such a great deal. i have to agree with what here...
Posted by: bkny at July 23, 2009 2:45 PM
northslope renter my builing / apt is not a pit or tiny. it's 950 square feet it doesnt have the newest appliances or anything, probably stuff from the late 90s early 2000s because it was renovated in 2000 / 2001 about.
and rents for similar things in the area around 2450 as well. 3500 is just absurd and youre a sucker to pay that.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 23, 2009 2:49 PM
http://www.idealpropertiesgroup.com/property/details/3970
Park Slope 2 bedroom duplex. A nice one.
$5200.
Posted by: 11217 at July 23, 2009 2:53 PM
You know, this would be *sooooo* much nicer if it were in Maplewood, NJ. Just sayin'
Posted by: mopar at July 23, 2009 2:56 PM
Don't think Brownstoner was making out that this was a great deal, more like asking what it would take to get it sold. I personally think at 1.3 it will move but that is just a guess. In re What's question about houses closer to Brownstoner's house, 42 Downing is the only recent sale that I am aware of it that neck of the woods and it went for 1.05 and is smaller than this house on Washington, so as far as I can tell the market value for decently renovated brownstones in Clinton Hill is about 1 million to 1.5 depending on location and size.
Posted by: wasder at July 23, 2009 2:57 PM
I pay 2300 for a floor thru in Brooklyn Heights. Only an idiot would pay more then 1800 for Clinton Hill.
Posted by: brickoven at July 23, 2009 3:02 PM
"and rents for similar things in the area around 2450 as well. "
rob -- I'm not seeing listings for nice 2 bedrooms for under $2500. And most of the ones under $2750 are for 700-800 sq. ft. places or the top floor in a walkup.
You have a sub-market rate apt. Try appreciating that and being grateful rather than insulting everyone who doesn't have your good fortune.
Posted by: northsloperenter at July 23, 2009 3:04 PM
Mopar, the Jersey missionaries only preach in Bedstuy. I think you actually squeeze this building into the one from yesterday.
Posted by: jack slade at July 23, 2009 3:10 PM
NSR - I am prob going to go look at this place
5th ave and 16th street 2br for $2300 - worth it? am a sucker for newer kitchens with counterspace
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=1140187&rentalperiod=&SearchType=apartments&Region=NYC
Posted by: gemini10 at July 23, 2009 3:13 PM
ok NSR. fine. you could be right i guess. i guess i should feel lucky. my roommate has been at that place for 6 years tho, maybe that's why.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 23, 2009 3:14 PM
Oven, if your floor thru is a nice condition, loads of details, nice kitchen & bath, ~800 sq ft, then you got a great deal. I've been looking and haven't come across a "Nice" flr thru units in any of the prime BK hood for below 2500. Crappy no detail, etc. yeah, seen those.
Posted by: more4less at July 23, 2009 3:18 PM
gemini -- the price looks fine.
Hard to tell exactly how the apt. is laid out. Looks like it might be 3 rooms (2 bedrooms and one big kitchen/living/dining area). If there is a 4th room, then the price looks better.
I don't get south of 6th street much, so I don't know that area as well, but I seem to remember it is OK as long as the expressway is not a visual or auditory nuisance.
I'm mostly looking btwn flatbush and 5th street right now, so the places I'm seeing a bit more exp. than south slope (which is why I said wasn't seeing much below $2500).
Posted by: northsloperenter at July 23, 2009 3:20 PM
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/546534-rental-235-washington-avenue-clinton-hill-brooklyn
Here is a listing right there and they are asking 24 psft, this place is bigger then a duplex would be in here and nice.
Posted by: brickoven at July 23, 2009 3:27 PM
NSR - am cool with the whole living/dining/kitchen area as that is how our house is laidout currently - I prefer it actually as I am a cook and like to talk with folks in the LR and watch TV etc
we live in south slope, so I know it's far from the expressway noise. Yes, but get your point I think nicely laidout, spacious 2BRS in your area are a bit pricier!
Posted by: gemini10 at July 23, 2009 3:29 PM
gemini!: one of my coworkers lives on 5th and 15th or 16th. is it an apt building you are looking at? supposedly a lot of the bigger older buildings in that immediate area have some serious bed bug issues. if you want i can ask him the exact addy later.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 23, 2009 3:33 PM
based on the listing I just showed the rent roll for this townhouse would be 5,000 a month. That would mean if you are paying more then 900,000 you are a sucka
Posted by: brickoven at July 23, 2009 3:38 PM
BO, wouldn't it be $3500 for each duplex, for a total of $7,000?
Posted by: mopar at July 23, 2009 3:49 PM
mopar -- i don't think you get $3500 in that area for the duplex. Would have to be better blocks in brooklyn heights, cobble hill or park slope to get that.
Posted by: northsloperenter at July 23, 2009 3:54 PM
ROB!
omg - YES please ask him
one apartment I am trying to look at is on 15th btwen 5th & 6th
the other apartment is on 16th and 5th
THANKS!
Posted by: gemini10 at July 23, 2009 3:54 PM
Mopar check out the listing I just showed its the same block. The duplex being offered for rent is in a house that has bigger dimentions and they are asking 2600 and its actually very nice. I think it is generous to give this HOTD a rental of 2500 for a duplex. So the rent roll for the building would be 5000. And oh I missed on that other listing that a garage is included.
Posted by: brickoven at July 23, 2009 3:56 PM
Here duplex on the same block that is nicer and comes with a garage and the ask is 2600
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/546534-rental-235-washington-avenue-clinton-hill-brooklyn
Posted by: brickoven at July 23, 2009 3:58 PM
brickoven, you continue to fail to understand that owning a house isn't all about what the rent role would be if you bought it as an investment property. I don't believe that you are actually that dense from other conversations we've had. Are you just baiting???
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 23, 2009 4:04 PM
dave thats like saying the PE's dotcom stocks dont matter back in 2000. For somebody who works in finance you show very little savy for any monetary discipline. Of course the rental value matters
Posted by: brickoven at July 23, 2009 4:09 PM
okay gemini, i just sent him an email asking what building it is with the bedbugs.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 23, 2009 4:11 PM
dave -- it isn't a single family home. You have to plan on renting out the other unit if you buy.
Posted by: northsloperenter at July 23, 2009 4:14 PM
gemini: okay the building with the bedbug problem is 177 16th St. this is first hand info considering him and his neighbor had the problem.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 23, 2009 4:15 PM
Oh, OK, thanks BO, sorry I got confused with all the postings about Park Slope up top. $2500 it is.
Posted by: mopar at July 23, 2009 4:22 PM
Oven, thanks for that listing man. that is exactly what I've been waiting to see pop up. I've seen other units like that for a while already but it was closer to $3k. if this meets picky wife's expectation, I'm selling my place and rent.
Posted by: more4less at July 23, 2009 4:23 PM
"brickoven, you continue to fail to understand that owning a house isn't all about what the rent role would be if you bought it as an investment property. I don't believe that you are actually that dense from other conversations we've had. Are you just baiting???"
This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard you say!
Posted by: brickoven at July 23, 2009 4:23 PM
thank you ROB!
Posted by: gemini10 at July 23, 2009 4:25 PM
more4less it looks like a sweet place. Hope you snag it!
Posted by: brickoven at July 23, 2009 4:26 PM
Brickoven, the 235 Washington Ave listing looks pretty decent, but it's a floorthrough, not a duplex. A well-renovated duplex would go for more, IMO.
Posted by: tinarina at July 23, 2009 5:04 PM
I don't get this "sucker" "idiot" thing about rentals. Most people -- anyone commenting on this board -- is probably going to look at a lot of listings that meet or come close to what they want; they're gunnna get a feel for current prices. If something's under market there's usually a reason, an unpleasant reason. Not always, but usually. What are we supposed to do? Poison some elderly person and move into their house?
Posted by: Nomi at July 23, 2009 8:06 PM
While I'm at it, the often repeated phrase "rich sucker" is even more silly to me. Most people who have made good money and managed money wisely are not suckers.
That doesn't mean that people don't spend impulsively all the time -- so-called rich or not. It doesn't mean people of all income levels don't make mistakes with real estate. But this idea that some richer sucker will buy an overpriced house is silly. There's no one looking seriously at real estate today who doesn't know that it's a buyer's market.
Posted by: Nomi at July 23, 2009 8:13 PM
BHO, I'm curious as to how you arrived as 10-1 being the ratio of home price to annual rent in a "normal" market. That would make houses severely undervalued when compared to other investment vehicles (e.g., P/E ration of 14 for equities over the last 100 years, closer to 18 or 20 over the last 10 years), when houses have traditionally returned far less than the equities market.
That being said, no matter what condition the street is in, I wouldn't consider anything north of Willoughby to be a "nice block," unless you consider guaranteed childhood asthma and being sandwiched between two areas with some of the highest homicide rates in the city to be "nice."
Posted by: kimcheater at July 23, 2009 9:57 PM
My daughter was friends with a kid who lived in the house with the blue siding. Please believe me when I say the siding was a big improvement. It was amazing--went up in 1 day! Also please believe me when I say that there's a reason there are no photos in the listing.
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=1513967
Definitely NOT HOTD-worthy.
I remember when that house was for sale before--maybe 1991. They were asking $190,000; probably went for lots less. That was the last mutant asset bubble.
Posted by: rf at July 23, 2009 10:02 PM
kimcheater,
Obviously you've never been to Clinton Hill. Have you been to Brooklyn?
That's a beautiful block, and very far from the BQE! Nicely placed between St. Joseph's College and Pratt.
Posted by: rf at July 23, 2009 10:05 PM
"BHO, I'm curious as to how you arrived as 10-1 being the ratio of home price to annual rent in a "normal" market. That would make houses severely undervalued when compared to other investment vehicles..."
That ratio is pretty common (can't remember exactly where I got it from). Floor-through rents in Clinton Hill averaged $1,200 in the late 90's. That made a four-family $576,000, even more than what they were going for at the time. Severely undervalued? Stop cheatin', kim!
"1991...$190,000"
Nuff said.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at July 24, 2009 7:31 AM
What I want to know is who is the Emmy winner living in this house? (See mantle in living room)?
Personally, I would move that statue outta there during open houses and showings. Just sayin'.
Posted by: Rehab at July 24, 2009 1:06 PM
The owner claims a current rent toll over $7K a month.
I was in the house, it looks much nicer than a rental usually does. Great bathrooms and kitchens.
Posted by: spqrxxi at September 15, 2009 5:42 PM
Latest Restaurant Additions
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Le Barricou
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added November 18, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Mr. Wonton
added November 17, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Casa Rosa
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Cousin John's Café & Bakery
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added November 11, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Phoebe's Cafe
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Ruthie's
added November 9, 2009 12:00 PM in Clinton Hill, Downtown Brooklyn
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