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July 22, 2009

House of the Day: 176 Bainbridge Street

This three-story brownstone at 176 Bainbridge Street in Bed Stuy just hit the market with an asking price of $695,000. While the ultimate selling price may end up barely having a "6" at the front of it, the current ask is probably too high given the size (2,700 square feet) and the condition—while the whitewashed walls and sanded floors sit fine with us, the Home Depot light fixtures and tacky door knobs make us fear the worst about the unphotographed bathrooms and kitchens. What do you think? If this were $100,000 cheaper would it be a buy?
176 Bainbridge Street [Douglas Elliman] GMAP P*Shark

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Comments

Poor renovation job. Nice block though.

Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at July 22, 2009 1:22 PM

The layout is unfortunate. What a waste to devote the parlor floor to the bedrooms, and have the living room on the garden level where presumably the ceilings are quite low. Nice bones, though, and I like the big back yard.

Posted by: Park Sloper at July 22, 2009 1:32 PM

This is the type of place you need to see before commenting. Is the wiring, plumbing and everything else all brand new?? How good or bad are the kitchens? i suspect thoug that they are low end HD.

It is however an extremely good location. More so than being close to the restaurants on Lewis, malcolm X is changing rapidly, almost by the week it seems!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 22, 2009 1:33 PM

Park Sloper, I totally agree. In fact, the rental unit should be the garden level. Why should the owner not get the full use of the (hopefully) beautiful staircase instead of having his doors closed all the time between his first and second floor because it's "common area" for the tenant to go up and down???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 22, 2009 1:40 PM

Good point Dave!!!

Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at July 22, 2009 1:40 PM

Yeah, absolutely gorgeous block and neighborhood. I'm sorry, but leaving in the bannister, (probably also slathered in white semigloss) and the mantles,(ditto)does not an historic renovation make. I also have to believe this house also has the classic cheapo cabinets and bathrooms, or else they'd show them. I guess if period detail is not your thing, and not wanting to have to do a huge reno is a priority, this house would work. Again it is a nice block and a great location.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at July 22, 2009 1:44 PM

"While the ultimate selling price may end up barely having a "6" at the front of it..."

Gee, it should sell for more than $60,000. I'd bet at least 75K.

Posted by: shillstoner at July 22, 2009 1:48 PM

Is this a good area for a family? We are renting in Park Slope, having sold our small co-op here. We are beginning to search for a larger place to live, and would love a brownstone. My daughter is starting kindergarten in Park Slope this fall, and I know once you are in, you're in...so school is not as big of an issue (and our little one is just a year old, so we would deal with his schooling down the road) just a matter of getting there in the morning. We've been to BS a couple of times and it seems beautiful in many spots, but we don't know it very well yet. We are open to all neighborhoods, provided they are safe and friendly.

Posted by: wishinone at July 22, 2009 1:49 PM

This is a very nice block! but I am not bothered by the bedrooms being on the parlor floor. I wish the fireplaces weren't painted but who ever buys this would make out well with this house I mean It is still a brownstone.

Posted by: mysideofstuy at July 22, 2009 2:00 PM

DIBS, you just convinced me to buy a wreck and renovate it myself - to mitigate risk of crappy renov behind the walls.

compared to that nice detailed facade, the interior does look lacking. not dripping in enough details

Posted by: more4less at July 22, 2009 2:12 PM

Wishbone you and your wife should take a walk through this part of Bed-Stuy on a Saturday and see if you like the neighborhood. I mean this is totally different neighborhood from Park Slope. If you & your wife are opened to a change in life style then Bedford Stuyvesant could be for you....

Posted by: mysideofstuy at July 22, 2009 2:14 PM

Why drop another 100k? This is a solid brownstone in a great area for less than a Million.

The design flaws can be corrected in 4 hours tops.
I say 700k. Step up to the plate or buy temporary white box in PS.

Posted by: jack slade at July 22, 2009 2:17 PM

This area is very nice, yes.

I strongly suspect this house was renovated by a company that buys up uninhabitable properties. I toured five job sites with one of them in nearby blocks, and this is exactly their modus operandi. Re the downstairs, they think it's really awesome to "open up the space" and all the kitchens and baths are Home Depot. I didn't see evidence of a gut, though I could be wrong. What I saw is that they sheetrocked over the existing plaster. Replacing floors with new seems to be standard.

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 2:18 PM

Those doors are just craptastic. This is a waste.

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 2:19 PM

Price is OK but I'd want more of a discount for crappy layout. . . your main living space is a narrow dark ground floor.
The whole point of living in Bed-Stuy would be to get a grand space, which this ain't, for half off or more what you would pay elsewhere.

Posted by: ontheparkway at July 22, 2009 2:22 PM

I wholly agree with Park Sloper and DIBS - it is a wast to have bedrooms on the parlor and the rental should definetly be the garden. Makes for a much more 'homey' feel, entering on the palor and have the bedrooms on the top floor. they could build a deck off of the kitchen and have easy garden access.

wishbone - this is an extremely child friendly area. on a saturday walk down to story time at brownstone books at 12pm and you will see tons of small children there and playing out side by bread stuy and families brunching at peaches. On sunday walk to the fulton east playground (corner of fulton on stuyvesant) there are a bunch of neighborhood moms there around 10:30am. if you are truly open - you will love the area!

jack - i voted 700k also! before seeing your comment. this is a great block and area and there is no reason for a '5' in front like Mr. B suggests!

Posted by: bkny at July 22, 2009 2:31 PM

Backyard is lovely. I'm not too keen on the 2nd floor bedrooms being attached. Great for a couple or a family with young children. Not so great for a family with older children who need their own space. On the 3rd floor that 2nd bedroom is laughable. If the guts are ok the seller should do pretty well. Knock it down 100k and someone will swoop it up right quick!

Posted by: kissera at July 22, 2009 2:31 PM

MOPAR....

I wouldn't call it a waste. At the right price it can work.

Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at July 22, 2009 2:32 PM

ontheparkway is right......"The whole point of living in Bed-Stuy would be to get a grand space, which this ain't, for half off or more what you would pay elsewhere."

That said, this could be a great starter home for someone for, yes, under $600k.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 22, 2009 2:33 PM

a starter space for $600K in Bed Stuy? what are you smoking? Do you have any idea what you can buy in the suburbs for $600K? This is definitely not a neighborhood for kids.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 2:40 PM

This place is near the PJ's and it's been flipped few times!

Now the question is How much equity you lose!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at July 22, 2009 2:41 PM

Stay out there then, Maplewood.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 22, 2009 2:42 PM

Perfect example of turning a brownstone into a Fedders building.

It is a waste.

Assuming the mechanicals are sound, which I highly doubt, this could be worth $600,000 or so. But they're not. So maybe $520,000.

Maplewood Guy, there are zillions of kids living in this neighborhood. What are you talking about?

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 2:43 PM

Define "suburbs" anywhere near NYC for under $600,000. And tell me what the RE taxes are.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 22, 2009 2:44 PM

HEY WHAT...What's wrong with the PJs??? Do bad people live there???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 22, 2009 2:45 PM

I am talking public school not playground. No comparison between Bed stuy and Maplewood if you happen to work on the west side.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 2:46 PM

Looks like a nice place. No idea about neighbourhood but the better informed think it's okay. What's not to like apart from the price?

Posted by: the chicken at July 22, 2009 2:50 PM

West side of what? Jersey City?

Posted by: Smudge at July 22, 2009 2:50 PM

HEY WHAT...What's wrong with the PJs??? Do bad people live there???

Dave put your Brownstone on the market..

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at July 22, 2009 2:50 PM

thanks for the comments about the neighborhood. i feel we are pretty open... i am not particularly tolerant of drug deals going on in front my kids, so I guess I do draw the line somewhere. :-) we will have to go check it out and spend some more time there.

we aren't necessarily interested in this property (if we were, we'd convert to a single family), but I am interested in good areas of BS, good proximity to shops, parks, the A train, and of course, I want details. We'd renovate kitchens/baths, move things a bit, but not a total gut job.

Posted by: wishinone at July 22, 2009 2:54 PM

Why, you want to buy it??? I don't think you can afford it. More importantly, you couldn't appreciate the architectural detail and high end amenities.

YOU DIDN"T ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE PJ'S

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 22, 2009 2:54 PM

"This is definitely not a neighborhood for kids."

maplewood guy - that is such a wackass comment. sure NJ is where i want to raise my kids since it's so cultured and the taxes are so low....

don't comment about what you don't know about

Posted by: bkny at July 22, 2009 2:57 PM

Suburbs: Maplewood, Montclair, South Orange, Summit, Tarrytown, Irvington, Dobbs Ferry, etc
RE Taxes: Could be $10K-$12K but no city income taxes

In order to afford the inflated badly renovated brownstone in the BS where you must be a landlord and live in the rest 2br one needs $200K income which translates to $8K city income tax. To that you need to add RE taxes...

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 2:57 PM

also, maplewood guy - this block is zoned for PS 21 - listed in "the best public elementary schools nyc" guide - do your research. i swear i hate ignorance!

Posted by: bkny at July 22, 2009 3:00 PM

That's a copy BKNY.

Posted by: jack slade at July 22, 2009 3:01 PM

maplewood - your forgetting about the cost of communting and the hassle of it - which you cannot put a price on. for the record me and several of my friends do NOT have tenants and enjoy our entire house and all of our homes are renovated. you also cannot put a price on raising children in a city with as much culture as brooklyn & nyc...you can have NJ. no thank you....just admit it you can't afford to live in brooklyn. that's the bottom line...

Posted by: bkny at July 22, 2009 3:04 PM

LOL....

PS 21 is a fantastic school.

And for the record IRVINGTON is no walk in the park if you're concerned about safety. Try taking a walking tour in that neighborhood.....GOOD LUCK!!

Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at July 22, 2009 3:13 PM

Maplewood Guy, We lived in Montclair for two years and hightailed it back to Brooklyn... for a lot of reasons I won't get into on this thread. But, suffice to say, we love Brooklyn and want to raise our kids here. No suburbs for us, we've btdt, and it wasn't for us.

Posted by: wishinone at July 22, 2009 3:14 PM

Jersey City (the prime areas; not the ones you see on the news with the recent shootings) is very nice. I prefer BK but do acknowledge those towns Maplewoodguy mentioned are very nice (know them well since I house hunted near and work near a few of them) but this is about personal preference - to each his own.

maplewoodguy, I do think if & when prices do bottom out, one stands better odds making a profit buying in bed stuy than in those NJ townships. not that it's the only reason but is 1 of the key buying decisons

Posted by: more4less at July 22, 2009 3:20 PM

wish - we have friends in south orange, west orange & maplewood. our friends in maplewood said their taxes have gone up 7% a year since they moved and they want to move back to brooklyn but can't afford it.

maplewood if NJ is so great, why are you posting on brownstoner - is there no ilovemaplewoodblogs out there?

Posted by: bkny at July 22, 2009 3:20 PM

Good luck Wishinone. Be sure to leave your tunnel vison glasses at home when searching. BedStuy has the largest collection of brownstones in the world ok maybe new world so restoring is easy and lots of fun.

Posted by: jack slade at July 22, 2009 3:22 PM

Commuting from maplewood to columbus circle is 1h door to door which is about the same from bs.

I am not sure why BS is more "cultured" than maplewood. Unless you mean lil kim, maplewood is full of artists and media people, art venues, and I bet higher educational level residents.

Architecture wise, maplewood is full of century old houses including victorians, arts&crafts, etc

Try to open your mind and get a perspective of what brooklyn offers compare to nearby areas. Otherwise you can't correctly price your property.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 3:22 PM

we are now free of children and look to move back to the city. As you correctly pointed out, I cannot afford BS although I earn multiples of median income there. When and if prices in Brooklyn compare favorably I might make a move. At the moment, suburbs win.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 3:26 PM

BTW PS21 is not that fantastic: it gets 5 out of 10 in greatschools and 3 out of 5 in schooldigger a lackluster performance for 600K houses.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 3:32 PM

but why are you on brownstoner, MWG?

there are lots of reasons people prefer nj burbs over bklyn, but commuting can't be one of them. no way working with a train schedule is preferable to the subway. and just factually, the A from BS to columbus circle does not take an hour door to door, at least not at rush.

Posted by: southbrooklyn at July 22, 2009 3:32 PM

I really believe jersey talk has no business in this state!

Posted by: jack slade at July 22, 2009 3:40 PM

more4less: I am not looking to make a profit in RE. I am just trying to get the best value for the money. At the moment there is no comparison. Families who look for a place in brooklyn should look elsewhere. They might be surprised of what they can get.
Brooklyn is fetishized. Artists and other "cultured" people have fled to cheaper areas. What remains are trustafarians, bankers/lawers who can afford it and some poor souls who think they can make huge profits in RE by buying in fringe areas.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 3:43 PM

I've got to agree in large part with Maplewoodguy.

Brooklyn definitely is "fetishized."

Paying $600k for a crappy house in a high crime neighborhood far from Prospect Park is nuts. . . .

Based on what you'd get renting out the house, it's worth about $300k and not a cent more. . .

Posted by: IronBalls at July 22, 2009 4:01 PM

MaplewoodGuy, true but the complete truth is many cultured people have left the tri-state area. the prime towns in NJ aint cheap - just cheaper than BK. For many on this blog, we're earlier in life than you (ie no kids yet, have young kids,....) and given house purchase is a huge amt of $$$, potential profits is among the decision points. if one doesn't view house purchase as an investment is either loaded already or do a disserve to him/herself. Anyhow, wasn't saying you needed to buy somewhere to make big real estate profits but rather to point out that others find bed stuy attractive for the profit potential (along with the housing stock, friendly hood,....)

Posted by: more4less at July 22, 2009 4:05 PM

Why hijack this particular thread to talk up Jersey?

Anyway, wishinone, this part of Bed Stuy is very nice. Check out Macdonough between Stuyvesant and Lewis, and Peaches for brunch. There is also a cafe and bookstore on that block. Also a new organic grocery coming in on Stuyvesant. And a new pizza place called Saraghina.

Don't know much about the schools, but the private Bridge school has a good reputation.

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 4:09 PM

I am not talking up NJ but rather talking down prices in BS. There is something perverted in buying an ugly renovated small 2br with an 1br rental so that you can spend the rest of your income in private schools--which you will spend it if not at the elementary school surely for middle and high. Families with children--especially young ones-- should look elsewhere westchester, ct, li (if not nj) for better value.

As for re profits, I would forget about it. NY RE as it stands is dead for at least 10-20 years possibly longer as long as it relates to income. What happened the last 10 years was an exception.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 4:20 PM

maplewood - i am born and raised in bk and would not consider the 'burbs. i have family support and great friendships here. the homes in essex county are beautiful, no doubt. i cannot imagine paying the high taxes. i have personal deep attachments to bk and it has nothing to with it being a fetish. sure some people are here for profits or different reasons. but this market would have to seriously be in the toilet for me to ever loose money on my home. i bought it before the 'boom & hype' and i plan on living in it for a long time and raising my children in brooklyn. also my commute is 15mins. so the burbs is definetly not an option for me.

to each his own.

Posted by: bkny at July 22, 2009 4:24 PM

Consider this, Maplewood Guy. Why is this house so cheap? It will cost you $1.3 to $4 million to buy a nice brownstone in an area with good public schools.

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 4:32 PM

Also, what happened in the last 10 years of real estate in Brooklyn was a correction to the incredible downward price pressure during the white flight and Bronx is Burning years.

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 4:33 PM

Maplewood,

Most of the folks on this blog don't get what's happening to real estate prices locally, not to mention nationwide.

Despite current reality, they still think their houses are somehow worth "millions" even though potential rental income wouldn't cover half of their mortgage payments.

In a few years, when prices are half what they are today, folks on this site will still be making excuses about how this block is so valuable because of a donut shop or a sushi bar or whatever. . . .

Maybe Obama will fix things.

Posted by: IronBalls at July 22, 2009 4:34 PM

I don't know anything about Brooklyn, especially Stuyvesant Heights. That won't stop me from opining on the priice of real estate in the area.

I am a racist and a snob who believes the home of the real housewives of NJ actually has "higher educational level residents" than this area.

I don't know that lil Kim never lived in Stuyvesant Heights but my grandkids told me about her so I think I am up on hip hop and will throw her name into the mix.

To get to Columbus Circle I have to take NJ Transit AND the subway, so I live in a two-fare zone. Somehow, that beats one train/fare from my house to work every day.

I can't afford Stuyvesant Heights which means that house in NJ I have been paying a mortgage on still can't get me a decent downpayment on this house. So I invested poorly in the real estate market and now I will tell you all where real estate in NYC is going in the next few years.

Posted by: ghettoazzpnkbtch at July 22, 2009 4:37 PM

It's less than 40 minutes to Columbus circle on the A train. Maplewood, best stick to NJ statistics. Enjoy your ever rising property taxes. At least NYS isn't bankrupt.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 22, 2009 4:47 PM

I don't know what the rental income of this house is. My only point of reference is Prospect Park. If a house isn't in Park Slope, I don't know anything about it.

I should get out more but that would require me to turn off Fox News and experience the city I actually live in.

Perhaps O'Reilly can save me from my narrow-minded existence.

Posted by: ghettoazzpnkbtch at July 22, 2009 4:49 PM

I don't know anything about NJ, esp Maplewood. That won't stop me from believing that the home of the real housewives of NY is better than those from NJ.

I am a racist and a snob who believes BS is more cultured than all of NJ including Maplewood, SO, and Montclair without realizing that brooklyn only reflects the cultural desert that NYC has become lately.

I also believe that there enough suckers who will hand me $600K to be landlords and residents of 2br in a neighborhood with subpar public schools and safety.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 4:50 PM

"Also, what happened in the last 10 years of real estate in Brooklyn was a correction to the incredible downward price pressure during the white flight and Bronx is Burning years."

There is some truth to that, but keep in mind that prices in Maplewood and other burbs doubled and even tripled in the last 10 years, too. The market there has now "corrected" and prices are back to 2004 or 2005 levels--which is exactly what is happening here now.

And why can't people just accept that different people like differnet places? I know plenty of people who have left Brooklyn for the burbs (not NJ) in the last 5 years and are very happy there. It happens.

Posted by: shillstoner at July 22, 2009 4:53 PM

Obviously daveinbedstuy=ghettoazzpnkbtch

How come a "cultured" BS resident can't understand that not all NJ towns are the same just like in NY?

Why should we follow the obsolete views of a schizophrenic on brooklyn RE as well as his views on NJ (again obsolete).

This discussion is not about NJ. Little do I care whether you like NJ or not. I AM JUST SAYING THAT FAMILIES SHOULD LOOK ELSEWHERE FOR BETTER VALUE.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 4:56 PM

I get offended and try to ape someone else's style when they call me out on my ignorance.

I forget that NJ is less cultured than NYC so if NYC is a cultural desert I am living on the cultural equivalent of the moon.

I must not know this area if I think it is unsafe. I am just afraid of black people but I can't admit that because eveyone will know I am a racist.

I stll can't afford a brownstone, even in the least expensive brownstone neighborhood in Brooklyn. What does that say about my financial acumen over the past several decades?

Posted by: ghettoazzpnkbtch at July 22, 2009 4:57 PM

shillstoner: prices in Maplewood as well as other NJ and NY suburbs have reached 2003 levels. Prices in several places is 50% off peak. In fact, this is what makes suburbs a much better value. Check out the blog njrereport.com that documents the above.

I am not arguing that it is better to live in Maplewood or any other NJ town than Brooklyn. I am just saying that right now for the same amount of money you will be able to buy a higher quality of life in a suburb than in brooklyn.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 5:05 PM

And I am troll who masters ad hominem and believes that people's sole objective in life is to make enough money so to buy an inflated brownstone in one of the worst brooklyn neighborhoods.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 5:09 PM

I am still a racist who hates being called out on it.

Perhaps if I lived in Brooklyn I would be more tolerant of other people, but I would rather hide in a lily-white suburb and feel safe in the knowledge that I live among the ignorant. It makes me feel superior when I surround myself with other racist, unworldly people.

Posted by: ghettoazzpnkbtch at July 22, 2009 5:16 PM

You think that by calling me racist you somehow convinced me and others for throwing away our savings.

Maplewood is one of the most diverse suburbs--far from lilywhite which shows your ignorance.

Safety has nothing to do with race it's a matter of numbers which you can easily check them at your local precinct.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 5:22 PM

Ghetto,

What did Maplewoodguy say that's racist?

If Bed Stuy were a high crime, no ammenities, remote, all white neighborhood, it would be equally crazy to pay $600k for a shitty house. . .

At least the Bronx has lots of good ethnic restaurants . . .

Posted by: IronBalls at July 22, 2009 5:25 PM

So it's ok to drop 4 times the amount if the neighborhood was bad 15 yrs ago?

Mapleballs dont be bitter because some people of color are cashing out during this greater depression. You never know they could be dropping 100 percent on the house next door from you.

Posted by: jack slade at July 22, 2009 5:30 PM

Stuyvesant Heights is not high crime. Jesus Christ.

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 5:30 PM

I am not denying I am a racist, I just try to change the subject to value. Of course, I deem this property not valuable given the supposed crime and predominance of African-Americans in the area.

I make assumptions about the educational level of the residents of Stuyvesant Heights and mention lil kim, an African-American performer, when discussing the neighborhood. I just can't say that - though I know nothing about this area - I would never pay to live among stupid black criminals.

I think I have actually agreed with The What n this issue. I scare myself.

Posted by: ghettoazzpnkbtch at July 22, 2009 5:31 PM

Jack, LOL.

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 5:35 PM

IronBalls:

don't you understand what's happening? Dr David Jekyll and Mr Ghetto Hyde construe criticism against Bedford Stuyvesant as criticism against race thereby rendering criticism against the neighborhood politically incorrect. This way prices remain inflated and avoid (he or his clients) foreclosure.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 5:37 PM

Ok I am going to change the subject here @ Jack Spade I absoultely agree with you on this

"Why drop another 100k? This is a solid brownstone in a great area for less than a Million.The design flaws can be corrected in 4 hours tops.I say 700k. Step up to the plate or buy temporary white box in PS.

I own a brownstone in Bed Stuy and no there isn't alot of original details but the way I feel is that I still love it regardless. This price can always be negotiated between the seller & the buyer and a few changes on this house could actually be worth it.
Wishbone please disregard all of these peoples opinions
and take a loom for your self.
Bedstuy is huge so be opened to see all of it and not just Stuy heights.

Posted by: mysideofstuy at July 22, 2009 5:39 PM

I would never pay to live in inflated brownstones sold by "cultured" greedy white criminals who hope to make 200% profit from what they paid to the previous owners.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 5:43 PM

I am now going to deflect. Watch as I try to avoid the issue brought to my attention.

I want to believe ghetto = DIBS, but I think the rest of the Brownstoner community knows they are not the same. They also know neither ghetto or DIBS are in foreclosure or have "clients" in foreclosure. Much better to accuse others of trying to pad the market than admit I don't know the market. However, I will talk up Nj to inflate teh price of my house. Then I can sell it and buy a little studio apartment in outer reaches of an outer borough.

I still don't know anything about this area and others are trying to educate me, but I will ignore them. That is how I got through life in NJ.

Now ...... who else can I talk to to get out of this mess I made.

Posted by: ghettoazzpnkbtch at July 22, 2009 5:45 PM

Maplewoodguy, you have no idea what you are talking about. Your comments are irrelevant. Enjoy New Jersey.

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 5:46 PM

I have raised a 13-yr-old in Brooklyn and she would not live anywhere else. Wait until you have a teen and have to drive him/her everywhere, while my girl takes the subway or the bus. When we leave the city, she notes how everyone looks the same. I note it too. Maplewood, no one is making you look at Brooklyn real estate. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. As far as Greatschools and Schooldigger, they only consider test scores. Any school with a racially and economically diverse student body will have a diverse set of test scores, and will be downgraded by these websites. I believe that part of education is being with kids from diverse households. You?

Posted by: rf at July 22, 2009 5:55 PM

MaplewoodGuy, to each his or her own but why are you so interested in a blogg about Brooklyn RE? Why do you want to move back to the city when " maplewood is full of artists and media people, art venues, and I bet higher educational level residents". Trop drole!
Do you really think most folks should be living out in the suburbs in this day and age? Do you think the arts and cultural scene in maplewood or anywhere in all of jersey comparable to Brooklyn? Can't wait for your answers.

Posted by: pierre de taille at July 22, 2009 6:02 PM

I repeat: a family with $600K can find a bigger, equally charming house, with a bigger yard, in a progressive "cultured" neighborhood with better schools in all levels and safety records with an equally good commute to certain parts of the city.

Brooklyn has an urban edge and a richer cultural life. Having said that Brooklyn is losing it due to gentrification and the overall cultural demise of NY. NY suburb does not mean US suburb but rather a much older commuting town where the residents are ex NYers raising families.

Also, you might have a better commute to certain parts of the city but not always and the difference is not dramatic. Many trains are walkable and your teen can walk to school as well as take the train for a gig in the city.

If you are nj prejudiced just take a look at westchester, connecticut and long island.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 6:15 PM

I am interested in this blog because with no kids home there's no much point in keeping a 4br. I would like to move back to the city in the next five years not necessarily Brooklyn though.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 6:18 PM

A monthly rail pass costs $300. You don't save a thing. I have a friend who moved from Astoria to Cold Spring. She's spending more. And they have to have two cars. It's crazy.

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 6:30 PM

Maple you still didn't answer a basic and fundamental question: why this blogg when you have all these great things to say about nj? We are glad that you do appreciate Brooklyn's cultural richness even though you think it has been diluted by gentrification...grossly inaccurate.
For native NYers most of NJ is so soul numbing that the extra cost of buying in Brooklyn is worth it many times over.

Now from an economic stand point the schools maybe better in Maplewood but tax incentives (i.e. RE taxes), not having to own 2 or more cars, and much better RE growth potential in Brooklyn compare favorably for us. In fact exponentially so; remember even though the RE market is down when things shore up again (and your estimate of 10 to 20 years is hyperbole.. where is the data ??) the city will in all likelihood be a much better investment...Food for thought (maple syrup).

Posted by: pierre de taille at July 22, 2009 6:39 PM

Mopar thank you so much. That was exactly our point...cars = $$ not to mention environmental impact.

"I would like to move back to the city in the next five years not necessarily Brooklyn though".

Hey Maple we are sure you can find a 2 bedroom condo or house in NJ no? Brooklyn may become even more expensive for your blood in the next 5 years..just saying!

Posted by: pierre de taille at July 22, 2009 6:46 PM

Astoria is a depressing charmingless culturaless rental neighborhood.
Cold Spring is a historic river village with amazing hudson views.
The difference is so dramatic that I don't think the $300 monthly pass is a factor.

Pierre: I repeat I am interested in moving to a nyc smaller space. I cannot predict the future but city or no city prices are always determined by income. If you think Brooklynites will get richer (don't think so-why?) then buy.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 6:53 PM

OK Hoboken or Jersey City is under consideration too. I am thinking Brooklyn Heights if prices go lower. I remain open minded.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 6:56 PM

It's funny that so many "culturally diverse" Brooklynites on this blog have a problem when somebody who lives outside Brooklyn disagrees with their assessment of the holy land.

A lot of this discussion revolves around the issue of raising kids, but when you think about it, there are way more juvenile delinquents in NYC as a percentage of their age group than anywhere else in the country.

Growing up riding subways and lurking in bushes drinking and swearing isn't exactly childhood paradise, in my humble opinion.

Kids are much better off growing up somewhere they can ride bikes and play outside at six or seven years old than often having to wait until Junior High to be allowed outside alone, as if often the case in NYC.

Posted by: IronBalls at July 22, 2009 6:58 PM

I'm sorry I said anything. I don't think you'd be happy living in the city, MWG.

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 7:03 PM

Maple we in fact suspect that RE prices will decline for some time here in NYC but will eventually rebound dramatically and better than almost elsewhere in the country certainly more than NJ.
Brooklynites will earn at a pace slightly higher that most of the country by virtue of this being NYC which will continue to be the world's financial capital & cultural center. We have tons of friends from Europe and Japan that can't wait to live here in Brooklyn. We are talking Parisians too.
Hey Brooklyn Heights? Too funny dude you will most likely NEVER afford that if you think BS is expensive. Prices in that area barely budge plus inventory is minimal.

Ah btw we are closing in a few weeks...yep a brownstone in Brooklyn!

Posted by: pierre de taille at July 22, 2009 7:11 PM

The people I know who grew up as teens in NYC they chose to bring up their teens in the suburbs.
I grew up in a suburb and liked it. As single I loved the city. As married with kids I loved the suburbs.

NY suburbs are hardly the suburbs you imagine. Some of them are commuting towns, with walkable center, lots of character and sense of community. Granted you cannot go to a play at a moment's notice but you can plan it over the weekend nor go round the corner for smokes. But these are rarely what family men do.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 7:12 PM

pierre: congrats-hope you are happy there. I do believe that it will be possible to buy a 2br coop/condo in BH or environs for half a mil. If not there then somewhere else will do. But I refuse to be a landlord in BS or Astoria for $600K.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 7:17 PM

Mopar Maple will be very happy here in fact we suspect it will be dream come true for him to move here. But at this point what you are seeing is called "defense mechanism"...we remember doing that in 1st grade when this really cute girl didn't want to play with us:)) We've since managed to find a better way to handle that sort of thing....

Ferrous balls where do you live? I see a ton of kids running around here in Fort Greene park everyday am I just lucky?

Posted by: pierre de taille at July 22, 2009 7:18 PM

Thanks maple and good luck... we do mean that sincerely even though half a million for a 2bedrm in BH is pretty unrealistic in our opinion.

Posted by: pierre de taille at July 22, 2009 7:29 PM

Maplewood, this is a great site..how bout those numbers from yesterday? Any comments? 1.9 in BH wowzers!

Be honest did this price tag hurt your pride because your appraisal came in lower than expected?

I mean you did mention 500k.

Posted by: jack slade at July 22, 2009 7:31 PM

My daughter did play outside on our old block in Clinton Hill when she was 4 and 5 and 6 and 7 and 8 and 9 and 10 and 11. She learned how to ride a tricycle, bike with training wheels, bike, pogo stick, jump rope, double dutch, use a skip-it, etc., etc. She took a big yellow bus to day camp in Staten Island where she learned how to make Challah and bake it over a wood fire and how to swim and how to find tadpoles in a pond. She has spent much more time outside playing than I did growing up in a classic NYC bedroom suburb.

I have lots of friends with kids growing up in the suburbs of NYC. I don't think YOU have a very good idea of what growing up as a kid in NYC is like. She has her choice of Tompkins Park, Ft. Greene Park, Prospect Park, Central Park, Riverside Park. She went to Ithaca with the Young People's Chorus of NYC for a week, did a free NY Shakespeare Festival program and a sports camp where she runs track, plays tennis, learns a little golf, swims every day in a city pool--that's so far this summer, with a rock n roll camp in Greenpoint, Brooklyn coming up. And a job babysitting/mother's helper-ing for a couple of weeks in August. Total cost to me--$300 plus Metrocard.

Maybe I can send her to Maplewood where she can learn to smoke pot in the bushes.

Posted by: rf at July 22, 2009 7:48 PM

OMG, rf I went to rock camp too. So cool! (BTW, must email you one of these days, we are moving to your neck of the woods as expected, would love to get together when things calm down.)

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 8:07 PM

Wait, you are rabbit, right? I might be mixing you up with someone else, sorry!

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 8:09 PM

Mopar, write to me at robyf@aol.com if you want. I'm not a rabbit though!

Posted by: rf at July 22, 2009 8:16 PM

Geeze how many miles away is that 7-11?

Will he ever answer my 500k question?

Posted by: jack slade at July 22, 2009 8:38 PM

Where are you moving, mopar? I haven't had enough time to follow the OT. For that matter, email me at goldenreign at gmail and tell me. I have been following your househounting saga for a while now and am really curious...

Posted by: Heather at July 22, 2009 8:44 PM

OMG, this is too funny. Email for everybody, coming up!

Posted by: mopar at July 22, 2009 10:08 PM

The day threads such as this and blogs such as this cease to exist = the day housing reaches bottom

Posted by: cornerbodega at July 22, 2009 10:29 PM

crap house btw. Fact that idiots are still talking up crap like this for $600k shows we've still got a while to go.

Posted by: cornerbodega at July 22, 2009 10:30 PM

To restate the previous points:

House layout sucks. Overpriced. I, too, wish prices would come down to a reasonable point. Of course, I'm too poor to buy it even at that point, but at least I could dream.

Maplewood, which I've been to, sucks. It's boring, suburban, private, all kinds of lame. Maybe houses are cheaper, but you have to live in maplewood. Which is why the houses are cheaper.

and, fwiw, my wife and i live in crown heights and this "if you live here your children will grow up to be criminals" crap is old and boring. I want my kid growing up riding the subway, eating roti, and playing in the park down the street. Because holy shit that's more interesting than the burbs. Just because you like boring, ain't no reason we all gotta live that way.

Posted by: bfarwell at July 23, 2009 12:50 AM

RF,

I'm talking about being able to let your kids go on long bike rides or to parks by THEMSELVES, not with you or daddy lurking a few feet behind. And letting them play on the stoop while you're inside with the door open is not what I'm talking about either.

I'm not defending Maplewood since I've never been there, but there are lots of nice towns where kids can have a much better childhood than anywhere in NYC where crackhead/criminals are always a constant threat -- and you know it!

In my opinion, a large percentage of kids who grow up in NYC are cocky young drug abusers by the time they hit high school, or they're big nerds whose parents whip them to succeed, but when they grow up, they rebel and become the laziest trust fund slackers on the planet. . .

I know a lot of these folks. I'm not making this up.

Posted by: IronBalls at July 23, 2009 8:14 AM

I'm a city lover, but the idea of thinking you'll be more interesting if you grow up in the city than in the burbs, based on the people I know, seems more based on specious logic than actual reality. It comes down to the person themselves.

Posted by: dittoburg at July 23, 2009 8:29 AM

ditto- Agreed. I don't think growing up in the city will necessarily make you more interesting, but it certainly give you wider/different opportunities for having interesting experiences. I grew up in a town was pretty quiet, and while it was great (totally beautiful, great topography, fabulous weather, etc.) there was very little diversity, there were fewer opportunities, hell, to pick something at random, there was no salted fish at the grocery store or dressed lamb hanging in the window. I don't know if my son will be more interesting for living in the city, but at least he'll know more varieties of normal, which i hope will serve him well in the wide world.

ferrouspheres- I'm not talking about helicopter parenting either. I expect my kid the explore the city on his own, once he's old enough to call home and use a metrocard. This paranoia about kids being abducted every five minutes drives me crazy. Crackheads and criminals (crackheads?? really?? In 2009??) are not a constant threat.

once more, with feeling: not a constant threat. Not even a frequent threat. Same as the myth that methheads and pedophiles haunt the streets of suburbia (where a lot of people are also too paranoid to let their kids go bikeriding by themselves). And re nerds/cocky druggies; I think that's a class-based constant. I can say the same thing for a lot of the people I grew up in the non-city with.

Anyhow, my point was that there are a lot of intangibles that add value to living in the city vs. living in maplewood, even if you could get a cheaper box to live in. Which is not to say everyone should live in the city (there are people who just hate the city) but that there are lots of people who value the city much higher than picket fences and quaint downtown starbucks.

(though, after all that, the house is still overpriced.)

Posted by: bfarwell at July 23, 2009 11:28 AM

It's better to grow up in a nice, safe, quiet town, and move to NYC as an adult. As an adult, one can appreciate all the city offers. Kids don't need 24 hour bars and roti stands. . .

Posted by: IronBalls at July 23, 2009 4:18 PM

But that wasn't my point; to know that the world is a big place with lots of different stuff and it's all normal is an important thing for a kid. Not to grow up sheltered and surrounded by lots of the same thing.

(I haven't even mentioned the opportunities to explore art museums, the library, music, etc.)

And you keep harping on the safety thing. The city is pretty safe. In fact, everywhere, generally speaking, is pretty safe. And even the unsafe parts are unlikely to permanently damage you.

Why do you think a nice quiet town is better, anyway? Just curious.

Posted by: bfarwell at July 25, 2009 9:23 AM

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