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July 21, 2009

House of the Day: 455 Henry Street

This house at 455 Henry Street has a very nice feel to it (or at least the renovated owner's duplex does), but the fact that the house is less than 17 feet wide and has two rental units make the asking price of $2,250,000, in our mind, pretty aggressive. The house will be delivered vacant but converting it to a one- or two-family house won't be free. Thoughts?
455 Henry Street [Douglas Elliman] GMAP P*Shark

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no idea about price, but I lived as a tenant in this kind of set-up when I first moved to NYC a bazillion years ago and always thought it seemed really nice for the owners. altho I can see maybe the 2 million dollar buyer is not interested in living in a narrow duplex.

Posted by: Ringo at July 21, 2009 1:22 PM

Ick, it's like somebody's granny exploded in there.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at July 21, 2009 1:23 PM

this is a super nice block and the lots are really deep. plus ps 29 and close to the private schools. not sure it's so aggressive, although I hope it turns out to be so!

Posted by: gkw at July 21, 2009 1:25 PM

I LOVE that garden
but the rest is sorta blah and I hate flowered wallpaper -makes a place look dated real quick

Posted by: gemini10 at July 21, 2009 1:25 PM

I wonder why Brownstoner does not profile houses in his neighborhood?

The are some for sale in a half-mile radius, maybe he can do some work and put them up.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at July 21, 2009 1:39 PM

That garden is 100% drool-worthy. Hot damn! The rest of it...eh. And where the heck is the floorplan? I hate when it's not included.

Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at July 21, 2009 1:42 PM

Awesome block, totally worth it.

Posted by: Brettson at July 21, 2009 1:45 PM

change that front door already. Seems like a common replacement door of what vintage not sure - early 60's.
Otherwise looks very nice.

Posted by: Petebklyn at July 21, 2009 1:48 PM

Great garden, but $2.25 Mil for a 17-foot wide building? Get real.

Nice reno if you like that sort of thing, but those rooms are far to cramped to be in the 2 mil stratosphere.

And where are the floor plans please?

I don't know this block well, and I'm sure it's lovely, but a little close to the BQE, no?

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at July 21, 2009 1:49 PM

It does seem overpriced, but they don't need to convert anything. They have two or three bedrooms on the English basement level and DR, LR, and kitchen on the parlor floor. They probably get about $4,000 a month for two floor-throughs.

Something about the LR is a little funky -- they seem to have opened up the wall and enclosed the stair, yet left the original door to the parlor sitting there -- like Stonehenge.

The cutesy-poo decor is easy enough to change.

Posted by: mopar at July 21, 2009 1:54 PM

This is not really near the BQE but it is *miles* from the subway. That walk is looooong. I know, I used to do it.

Posted by: mopar at July 21, 2009 1:55 PM

that front door looks 1930s to me. Might get a buck or two for it.

Posted by: dittoburg at July 21, 2009 1:56 PM

It would not take much to reconfigure the interior back to a single family. I would deduct $9,000 from the sale price for a new Landmarks-approvable front door though. The backyard is beautiful, the interiors are adorable, and it's in Cobble Hill, which is golden. They won't get ask but at least it will sell for a decent price sometime soon. Mark my words: floral wallpaper will be back in vogue any minute now.

Posted by: Minard Lafever at July 21, 2009 2:02 PM

> floral wallpaper will be back in vogue any minute now.

Along with bustles and whalebone corsets!

Posted by: DitmasSnark at July 21, 2009 2:05 PM

Map shows it 2 blocks from BQE, but I assume it's not visible/facing away, so doesn't feel like it.

Anyway, too expensive, and anyone w/ 2Mil plus interested in creating a one-family house has a lot better options to choose from. An overreach

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at July 21, 2009 2:11 PM

HEY...I have floral wallpaper somewhere. I've also got some scrimshaw but not in a corset.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 21, 2009 2:12 PM

DS: Madonna has already brought the whalebone corset back, and bustles are in every fashion show of evening wear. You haven't been keeping up have you?

Posted by: Minard Lafever at July 21, 2009 2:17 PM

ah, good point Minard, why they didn't change door. The whole landmarks nightmare.
and, Mopar, are you elderly or frail? it is .38 miles 9 minute walk to subway. What % of NYers live closer than that.
Frankly, I'd gladly trade my place 350 ft to subway to live over on Henry.

Posted by: Petebklyn at July 21, 2009 2:20 PM

The only positive on this place is that it is in Cobble Hill, but only barely. It's on the fringes of Cobble Hill. It's less than 17 feet wide. A 10-minute walk from the major subways. And sorry, but you're not getting $4,000 for 2 floor-throughs in faraway Cobble Hill ($2,000 is average for a nice garden rental, and prices are dropping). It will take several $100,000 to convert to a single family and update this house. Plus no bathrooms, can't wait to see what they look like. Or the rentals for that matter. Asssume that they have built in today's obligatory "ask for at least 20% more than what we expect to get, this way the dumb buyer feels like they're getting a great deal when we accept their low offer." This house should sell for less than $1.5 million. It does not add up to a great family home or a great investment.

Posted by: HellsBelles at July 21, 2009 2:27 PM

> bustles are in every fashion show of evening wear.

I'll consider them back in style when I seem them on the subway, not the runway.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at July 21, 2009 2:39 PM

Beautiful garden, but too rich for a 17 foot house on Henry Street that looks like it needs a fair amount of work.

Posted by: CarrollGardened at July 21, 2009 2:58 PM

Agree, house prob worth $1.3 or so.

And yes, floral wallpaper is back in style. But not quite like here, not yet. Minard is up on everything!

Posted by: mopar at July 21, 2009 3:19 PM

I like that wallpaper. So there.

Posted by: Nomi at July 21, 2009 3:26 PM

it is 16 and a 1/2 feet not 17. But we go thru this each time when this size gets sold around here and does not appear to be the $ factor some think it is.
Ad says new mechanicals and renovation and does appear true.
Pics show they incorporated part of hallway on parlor floor in middle room and real dimension and space.
So no big cost involved if 1 wanted single family not reality. Doesn't cost much to get rid of that Laura Ashley influence.
And rentals very minimum $2000 for a floorthru there (I do check craigslist) even in this market. Closer to $2400 if renovated nicely.
Fringe CobbleHill ---uh, I don't think so. You should live in such 'fringe'. Cobble Hill is too small and nice of area to begin with to call any of it fringe (if still in historic district).
PS29 , beautiful block, etc.
$1.5 m ...absolutely nuts. Definitely clears $2m.(if they change that hideous front door).

Posted by: Petebklyn at July 21, 2009 3:30 PM

I LOVE THIS PLACE!! I feel as though there are gorgeous details in every spot I look. The garden is wonderful. Build in bookcases nice. The kitchen windows make it feel like a suburban house! So cozy right in the middle of the city.

Posted by: cmar7785 at July 21, 2009 3:31 PM

This isn't my favorite block of Cobble Hill, but it's definitely not on the "fringes", HellsBelles. I think most people consider any blocks between Henry and Court to be prime Cobble Hill, and you are better off on Henry here (zoned for PS 29) than on Pacific St., which is zoned for 261 (also an excellent school, but many Cobble Hill buyers prefer 29). Pluses are you are near the only grocery store in the neighborhood. Minuses are that this block of Henry has more commercial establishments than other residential blocks. It seems the $2 million price tags in Cobble Hill is reserved for one families (or triplexes) in excellent condition, and not a house like this. The basement level is lower than typical 4 story brownstones (which have higher stoops) and that often means there isn't an additional sub-basement that has the mechanicals. Since there's no floorplan, it isn't clear which is the case for this house.

Posted by: CGfan at July 21, 2009 3:35 PM

Agree, 1.5m is nuts. Not sure it clears 2m, but 1.5? And fringes of Cobble Hill? Huh? I live on an equivalent block in Carroll Gardens. Am I in the fringes too?

Have I mentioned that I like the wallpaper? It's homey and comforting. I would keep it until it's moldy and faded and then for another 30 years after that. "Ick, it's like somebody's granny exploded in there." That's not only mean, but insulting to all grannies!

Posted by: Nomi at July 21, 2009 3:44 PM

I live very near this house and while this is a nice block, and hardly fringe, it isn't the nicest patch of the neighborhood. Also, I know people now in the market for rentals, and $2400 is not currently the market price for rentals like these -- with $1800/mo and some patience, you can do better. Why anyone would buy this for more than $2 million is completely beyond me. Sits, sits, sits some more.

Posted by: Whuh at July 21, 2009 3:48 PM

Agreed that this is a nice block (although not as nice as many in Cobble Hill). I am not sure how anyone can be commenting on the rentals without floor plans or pictures.

Interestingly, almost directly across the street is a 20' wide house for sale under $1.7 million -- BUT there is a rent control tenant in place. Also, I don't know how the mechanicals are.

Posted by: Boerumresident at July 21, 2009 3:59 PM

I disagree Whuh. Perhaps find $1800 and patience from some old landlord (like me) a floorthru that hasn't had much more than new coat of paint in 25 years. But am guessing/assuming that the rentals are fixed up. I see nothing listed in prime blocks (historic district) of cobble hill renovated like that rent you talk about. I do see as high as $2600.

Posted by: Petebklyn at July 21, 2009 4:03 PM

$2600? That's got to be a pretty large floor thru and definitely renovated.

Posted by: Nomi at July 21, 2009 4:19 PM

"This house should sell for less than $1.5 million. It does not add up to a great family home or a great investment. "

Amen to that fundamentals-driven perspective brother.

Posted by: MoneyForNothing at July 21, 2009 4:28 PM

According to my Yahoo! street map, Kane/Degraw is the last block of Cobble Hill. I would not characterize this as the "heart" of Cobble Hill, so I stand by my comment. Based on the $1.8 million widget you have to put 20% down these days to qualify for jumbo + closing costs + minimal renovation = $500,000 to get into this place. That still leaves you with a $10,000+ monthly mortgage. The rentals are no more than $4,000 monthly, so for $6,000+ monthly (above and beyond your $500,000 down) you get to enjoy a duplex in this brownstone. That's ridiculous for a narrow house that needs work. The alternative is a single family, and that implies at last $150,000 in conversion. Who's your prospective buyer?

Posted by: HellsBelles at July 21, 2009 4:43 PM

RIght, HellesBelles. So more like $1.3 million.

Posted by: mopar at July 21, 2009 4:54 PM

What's a fundamentals-driven perspective?

Posted by: Nomi at July 21, 2009 5:02 PM

" fundamentals-driven perspective" -- means the authors opinion.

Posted by: Petebklyn at July 21, 2009 5:10 PM

You can debate the wallpaper and the layout but there is no use debating the location. This is a prime block in one of Brooklyn's prime neighborhoods and to boot, it is close to one of my notable church designs, The Strong Place Baptist Church of 1849.

If you live near a Minard Lafever Church, you're cookin' with gas!

Posted by: Minard Lafever at July 21, 2009 5:24 PM

Minard, I live right around the corner. There is plenty debating this location. No one from the 'hood thinks of that stretch of Henry as the nicest in Cobble Hill; because it just isn't. Period.

Posted by: Whuh at July 21, 2009 5:37 PM

i'm a renter in cobble hill and i'm familiar with the ~2k price point for apartments (because that's my own price point). $1800 really is a stretch for this neighborhood and would be a steal if it ever happened, but it doesn't. $2000 for a garden apartment does not happen unless it's a complete dungeon. prices for garden 1br units around here are really around $2300-$2600. trust me, if they were cheaper, i'd be living in one. :) regardless if where you think the market is going, this is where it is right now.

and though kane/degraw is the last block of cobble hill, it's still a very nice one. kane st and the blocks of clinton and henry off it are some of the best in the neighborhood. the kane/clinton intersection is my favorite in cobble hill.

Posted by: duckumu at July 21, 2009 5:40 PM

HellsBells, I agree with your analysis about the economics of buying this place, but you are undermining your arguments by sticking with your contention that this location is somehow fringe based on looking at a Yahoo street map. No one buys real estate by looking at some street map, and anyone who lives in the neighborhood will tell you that this location is pretty darn good. It's closer to Carroll Gardens than to Brooklyn Heights, but these days, that's actually a selling point since there are more restaurants and other amenities that way now. That block is more commercial than some, which makes it less desirable, but there's no need for you to comment on a location you aren't familiar with.

On the other hand, you are correct that this property is way overpriced for a 3 family when you can rent a much nicer duplex for less than your carrying costs. But there are probably affluent buyers who might want a 1.7 one family, so I'm guess at 1.5 million it would be snapped up very quickly (and probably in a bidding war). It's still not clear if this is a 4 story with a sub-basement, or a 3 story with English basement, and that might affect the price as well.

Posted by: CGfan at July 21, 2009 5:52 PM

"Based on the $1.8 million widget you have to put 20% down these days to qualify for jumbo + closing costs + minimal renovation = $500,000 to get into this place. That still leaves you with a $10,000+ monthly mortgage."

Here's a newsflash for the folks who aren't actually in the market for the multi-million dollar HOTDs:

(1) Very few people buying at these price points ever put only 20% down.

(2) No one today can put 20% down. You're lucky to get a jumbo with 35% down, more likely 40-50%.

(3) "Who's your prospective buyer?" seems to go back to the fable that only people making 1/2 million a year or more to support a 5-digit monthly mortgage are in the market for these houses. Circle back to points 1,2 - there are lots of potential buyers with a big downpayment (Manhattan cash-outs, inheritances, careful saving of boom year bonuses) who make a comfortable income (say $250K-$300K dual income families) but are not mega cash-flow wealthy by NYC standards.

I'm not opining one way or another on the price of this house - just wanted to (re)inject a dose of reality. I know there are others who regularly point this out in a sisyphean way.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 21, 2009 5:54 PM

Two rental units and it will be delivered vacant?

Does anyone know if the tenants are still living there? Is the house empty now?

Posted by: bkstone at July 21, 2009 6:12 PM

North Heights - thanks for the newsflash. So, you're of the opinion that there are people with $800,000-$1 million in cash ON HAND who will think this brownstone is a great buy? I agree that there are qualified buyers looking in Cobble Hill, but not for this house, and not at this ask. The buyers you have described have understandably higher standards, and hopefully are holding out for a lot more home for the money. I look forward to that bidding war at $1.5 million.

Posted by: HellsBelles at July 21, 2009 6:20 PM

I'd live in this neighborhood in a heartbeat. My favorite part of Brooklyn. If this is fringe, sign me up for the full flapper dress!

Seems small-ish but lovely. Right now the market is so hard to call though. I think it will go for a decent price but will probably take a bit of time to sell.

And what NorthHeights is saying squares with the buyers I've known personally.

Posted by: gidgetgoesbrooklyn at July 21, 2009 6:54 PM

how about posting some properties of the day that are actually priced to sell

Posted by: southbrooklyn at July 21, 2009 9:14 PM

Well, Jonathan does do that occasionally. Those places are still appraised considerably lower here on Brownstoner.

Posted by: Nomi at July 21, 2009 9:48 PM

Hahaha, people with $800K cash (plus debt) to throw on a brownstone. Sure there are but not many. In fact there are less now than say, 2000. Of course, the owners of this building look for such a sucker. Suckers are not enough to sustain inflated prices--you need credit bubbles for that.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 1:13 AM

I think it's usually inaccurate to say the owners are looking for a "sucker." Much more likely is that they have a too high asking price for all kinds of emotional reasons, some quite understandable if not practical -- wanting to get their money back on a renovation, wanting to get in on a boom that they've miss. Other emotional reasons are actually understandable too if also impractical. These are people's homes. They are attached to them. They've put their sweat money and into them; they've lived their lives in them. They feel they are worth a certain amount despite what experts may tell them. This happens all the time all over the place. When it does, it has nothing to do with trying to take advantage of a sucker.

Posted by: Nomi at July 22, 2009 10:49 AM

Inflated prices over $2mil for "emotional reasons"? You gotta be kidding. There's nothing emotional over a property in a highly inflated area among people who sell/buy million dollar houses.

Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at July 22, 2009 2:37 PM

No, I'm not kidding.

Posted by: Nomi at July 23, 2009 1:17 PM

Why would there not be emotional factors with homes priced over $2 million? Why would someone who owns a valuable house not have emotional ties to it that might make them price it unrealistically high? Where is the cut off for emotions?

Posted by: Nomi at July 24, 2009 8:44 PM

« Co-op of the Day: 34 Plaza Street East, #704 StreetLevel: Abilene Folks Opening a Bar on 3rd Avenue »

July 21, 2009

House of the Day: 455 Henry Street

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