« Brooklyn Food & Drink Round-Up House of the Day: 156 Hicks Street Revisited »

July 29, 2009

Co-op of the Day: 416 Ocean Avenue, #12

This three-bedroom apartment at 416 Ocean Avenue in Prospect Lefferts Gardens came to market two months ago asking $395,000 and recently was reduced to $367,500. At 1,234 square feet, it's a large prewar pad and the exterior of the building is lovely. The interior photos, usually well done in Corcoran listings, don't help the apartment put its best foot forward though, so before cutting the price again, we'd suggest investing a couple hundred bucks in some decent photography!
416 Ocean Avenue, #12 [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark

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I like this one, except not sure about the schools.

Posted by: Heather at July 29, 2009 12:46 PM

A friend of mine lives in this building. I was just there last night. The lobby is fantastic--the doors to the elevators are made of shiny brass, and there's enough open space to stage a dance performance on that checkerboard tile.

This is a great deal. The apartments are enormous in the building. In fact I'm going to email my friend, who's renting and looking to buy, although I expect she's probably heard about the sale already.

Posted by: WonTon at July 29, 2009 12:57 PM

For the widget, instead of guessing the price, maybe there can be a new option where we guess how much under the posters on Brownstoner will value it from its actual selling price.

;)

Posted by: 11217 at July 29, 2009 1:05 PM

And that difference can be called the "snark factor"

Posted by: WonTon at July 29, 2009 1:08 PM

Exactly!

That is one gorgeous building! And so close to the park!!

Posted by: 11217 at July 29, 2009 1:12 PM

Ah, just got email from my friend. She's already been to see the apartment. Says it is is on the first floor and "feels dark--all the interior windows face the courtyard shaft."

They're going to keep looking.

Posted by: WonTon at July 29, 2009 1:15 PM

For $297 psf you wanted light???!

And what, may I ask is wrong with facing the shaft?

Posted by: 11217 at July 29, 2009 1:19 PM

The building is definitely something to keep an eye on. It's a great location...short walk to the park, and if you go out the back door of the building, you're on Caton Road, just a few steps from the Church Avenue subway. Last night we walked down from 416 Ocean to Cortelyou Road and had dinner at Mimi's Hummus (and got photographed while eating by a new york mag photographer...probably doing some article on the hipness factor of Cortelyou Road restaurants...)

Posted by: WonTon at July 29, 2009 1:22 PM

It's better, she says, to be on a higher floor in that building if your apartment's windows face the shaft. Otherwise your light is very gloomy.

Posted by: WonTon at July 29, 2009 1:24 PM

Interesting that after 22 appraisals, the widget guess is far closer to the asking price than any I have seen. Could voters be shifting their price point upward after several consecutive widget underappraisals?

Posted by: TD at July 29, 2009 1:33 PM

That carpet makes me sad. But nice to know a decent three-bedroom place can be had for under 400k.

Posted by: alsawo at July 29, 2009 1:36 PM

Yes, this apartment is for all those people who cry that no one besides the wealthy can afford Brooklyn anymore....

Posted by: 11217 at July 29, 2009 1:38 PM

> And that difference can be called the "snark factor"

Sorry WonTon, I've trademarked that phrase.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at July 29, 2009 1:40 PM

TD - I think it may also be a function of price - not price relative to the market, or relative to 'what it's worth', but just the actual price regardless of other factors. For example:

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2009/07/coop_of_the_day_257.php

This place in Kensington also was much closer than usual to asking, and received high praise. It is a nice place, but I also think there just seems to be generally more good will to properties priced under, say, 400K.

Posted by: perhaps at July 29, 2009 1:44 PM

I've lived in this building for a little over two years. Like most places it has its pros and cons. For me the Pros outweigh the cons.

PROS:
1. The apartments are very large. You get a lot for your money.
2. As someone else mentioned, it's just a few blocks from Prospect Park.
3. The B & Q trains are right across the street from the building's side entrance. Basically, you can use the Church St. stop or the Parkside stop.
4. There is a door person from 8 a.m. to midnight, during the weekdays.
5. Fairly flexible board.

CONS:
1. In the summer there is a lot of street noise.
2. There is a lot of noise from the Caton Avenue truck traffic.
3. There have been drug related problems in the neighborhood.

I looked at this apartment. Yes it is on the ground floor, but not all of the windows face the shaft. With a little imagination, I can see this being a really great apartment. Wish I had the bucks to buy it.

Posted by: BonTemps at July 29, 2009 1:44 PM

> For $297 psf you wanted light???!

Yes. There are plenty of apartments in Kensington (for example) at that price point that don't face the bottom of a gloomy air shaft. This may not be important to everybody, but that would be a dealbreaker for me.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at July 29, 2009 1:44 PM

That's one of the oddest apartment plans I've ever seen.

Makes me wonder if back in the day it was a doctor's office and later rigged up as an apartment. Many buildings in Brooklyn this vintage had similar places on the first floor but converted them to residential use as neighborhoods changed. (Think Eastern Parkway and St. Marks Avenue.)

That said, the building's a beauty.

With the right architect (and a couple of hundred grand) this apartment could work. Although I'd negotiate the price way down, given the economy and the market.

Posted by: NOP at July 29, 2009 1:44 PM

It's zoned for PS 375.
http://maps.nycboe.net/index.asp?street=Ocean%20Ave&addBoro=3&hsenum=416&action=addGeo

http://insideschools.org/index12.php?fs=746&str=375&formtype=name&all=y

Posted by: ennuiater at July 29, 2009 1:51 PM

Great building. . .but given the verbiage in the listing, i think it's going to take a lot to make it anything worth living in.
Also keep in mind that up till 2006 the nicest apartments on high floors were selling for way under what they want for this wreck.
A couple of them sold at bubble-fueled peaks. . in the last couple of years but i would disregard those as comparisons.
Think the hassle/expense of new kitchen new bathroom new everything // /then you have a dream pad on the first floor mostly facing a shaft. ..

Posted by: ontheparkway at July 29, 2009 1:52 PM

Forgot to mention that while the nabe does not have a lot of hipster type of amenities (glad for that) it does have a good grocery store within walking distance, and the post office and banks are all within walking distance. Plus, Flatbush has a lot of really interesting produce stores. If you're into jerk chicken, there are several really good places nearby.

And, supposedly the part of the Prospect Park that is closest to this area is slated to get a major redo. But given this economy, I don't know if that's still in the works.

Posted by: BonTemps at July 29, 2009 1:52 PM

I was joking Snark...

Although I'm one of those odd people who don't like a ton of natural light inside.

Posted by: 11217 at July 29, 2009 1:53 PM

The silver lining of having all your windows face the courtyard shaft is that you don't hear all the street noise you'd get with outward-facing exposures. Personally I'd take the gloom and quiet any day.

Posted by: Sparafucile at July 29, 2009 1:56 PM

I've looked at a couple apts. in this building. They were both VERY big with nice pre-war details. Very tempting. But the location sucks. Kinda sketchy, very noisy. That is why the price psf is low.

Posted by: lookylou at July 29, 2009 1:57 PM

> I was joking Snark...

I thought you might be, but wasn't sure. My new place gets tons of light and that was a huge selling (or renting, really) point for me.

Posted by: DitmasSnark at July 29, 2009 1:58 PM

NOP,

The 14' x13' Bedroom, was most likely a dining room. That is that what it is in most of the other units in this line.

The wall between the front bedroom and the living room seems to have been hastily constructed at some point. I knocked on it and it sounded really flimsy. Probably easy to take down.

Posted by: BonTemps at July 29, 2009 2:03 PM

also wanted to mention that this is definitely not the nicest part of Prospect Lefferts -- I always heard people call this Prospect Park South.
It's close to the train and the park and the location could be fine for many folks.
But it's still on the edge of things, which in this market could definitely make it a riskier investment (ESPECIALLY for a first floor apartment).

Posted by: ontheparkway at July 29, 2009 2:07 PM

The one bathroom would be the deal-breaker for me.

Posted by: Lesloaf at July 29, 2009 2:12 PM

Let's see, this neighborhood is on the southern "edge" of Prospect Lefferts Gardens, on the northern "edge" of Ditmas Park, and on the Eastern "edge" of Kensington. I guess we are on the edge, but we're not isolated.

Buying is a lot about comfort level. I would not buy in an area in which I thought my life would be in danger. However, families have lived in this area for years and continue to live here. How bad can that be?

Posted by: BonTemps at July 29, 2009 2:22 PM

Bontemps:

That's very true that everyone has their own comfort level, but families have lived in Brownsville and inner city Detroit for many years too, but that doesn't make them safe.

Posted by: 11217 at July 29, 2009 2:25 PM

11217: True. But people seem to forget that violence, unfortunately, happens almost anywhere these days: suburban malls, schools, etc. I agree that some neighborhoods have more violence than others, but I find ontheparkway's comment sort of interesting given that he lives in Prospect Heights, that was deemed "sketchy" not so many years ago. Sometimes I think people use the word "sketchy" as a euphemism for race. Could be wrong. No offense to anyone if I am.

Posted by: BonTemps at July 29, 2009 2:44 PM

BonTemps,

Thanks for the inside on the building and the neighborhood. I am not in the market now but I am sure it'll be useful for someone who is looking for a similar deal and apartment.

Posted by: Kensingtonian at July 29, 2009 2:54 PM

I had a friend get caught in gunfire last night on the UPPER WEST SIDE at around 9:45pm.

Said people were running for cover and screaming as at least 10 shots were fired...

Don't think anyone was hurt, but that's gotta shake you up.

Posted by: 11217 at July 29, 2009 2:54 PM

I looked at an apartment on Parade Place a little while back. I wasn't really familiar with that particular area, so I walked around a bit after the open house.

I got a "sketchy" vibe as well, but part of that could have been due to the rather obvious drug dealing going on across the street from a new "luxury" condo project.

Posted by: Oleg at July 29, 2009 2:56 PM

I don't see it as such a great deal. 1 bath? Looks like it needs a gut reno on top of everything else. You'll end up paying a half mil when all is said and done.

Posted by: denton at July 29, 2009 3:04 PM

@bontemps and @11217 and the 9th Ward, the favelas of Brazil, Sabra and Shatila in Beirut.

There's a whole world of neighborhoods full of families that no one would call a "family neighborhood." Not to veer wildly off topic or anything.

Anyway. I looked at Street Easy and you could pay almost twice as much for an apartment the same size that gets more light.

Posted by: serpentor at July 29, 2009 3:11 PM

Technically, this building is not in PLG as it's just south of the PLG border. And, it's definitely not Prospect Park South as it's too far north and east of that area. I'm thinking this might be Caton Park? At any rate, and wherever it is, I don't mind the mistaken claim that it's in PLG since it's always been one of my favorite large apartment buildings in the general area. It should definitely be a top co-op for consideration by those who are looking to buy a fabulous prewar apartment, in a great building, in a location practically on the Park as well as near major bus and subway routes, and at a relatively "affordable" price. And, no, I don't work for Corcoran or have any shares in this building. :-) Just know this nabe and this building and think it's a great deal for somebody!

Posted by: Brooklynista at July 29, 2009 5:08 PM

Bon Temps (2:03): Thanks!

Checked the building's floor plans on Street Easy. Some of them look interesting.

Wonder how I missed this one. Thought I knew all the big pre-war apartment houses in Brooklyn.

The lobby's definitely worth a sneak peak. Reminds me of some of the great ones in my boyhood neighborhood, Crown Heights.

Just wish they were all in such great shape these days. (They were when I was a kid in the 1950s.)

Dig that ceiling's coffers!

And the polished elevator doors!

Looking at the street view, my guess this place went up in the 1920s and the builders may have imagined a new "Gold Coast."

Then the Depression hit, alas.

Posted by: NOP at July 29, 2009 6:02 PM

Bon Temps, do you think that this was originally a two bedroom apt, with the second bedroom the small narrow one? If the funny shaped one was a dining room and the wall between the other front bedroom and the living room was once not there, that's what that would mean, yes? But that doesn't really make sense for such a large apt. Though, neither does anything else I can think of, if you are correct about the bedroom/former dining room. That other front bedroom could not have been originally intended as a bedroom . . . confusing.

Posted by: Nomi at July 29, 2009 7:06 PM

It's a beautiful part of the park--my favorite with victorian pavillions and the Kate Wollman Rink, which is the only outdoor ice skating rink where you can't see traffic. Kinda shabby, but up for rebuilding very soon.

Also close to the Audubon Center with paddle boat rides, electric boat ride (incredible!), a real natural part of the park.

As for the bedroom--a maid's room? But yes, it could have been a doctor's office at one time.

Posted by: rf at July 29, 2009 9:08 PM

For the record, this building is NOT in PLG, the southern boundary of which is Clarkson Ave., but it's close and does seem to be a nice apartment.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 29, 2009 10:02 PM

Why are some of the walls at an angle? Is this some kind of misprint? The building is square in the photo. And 1920s and 1930s buildings didn't have slanted walls.

Posted by: mopar at July 29, 2009 10:17 PM

Just checked the layouts on StreetEasy. The trapezoidal effects seem to be original. Very unusual.

Posted by: mopar at July 29, 2009 10:42 PM

Mopar:

Note that Ocean Avenue meets other streets at an angle, according to the Google photo above. My guess is that the architect tried to "reconcile" the geometries in his apartment plans.

The effect is weird, though!

Posted by: NOP at July 29, 2009 11:01 PM

I used to live in that building.

Pros: Very friendly residents
excellent super,
clean doorman building
HUGE apartments.
Excellent subway access.

Cons: Traffic Noise!!!!
Terrible parking if you have a car.

I would have stayed except for the fact that the noise factor (and pollution) made me decide to split and head for mellower climes.

In terms of the truck route ever being relocated, forget about it. It ain't going to happen.

Posted by: windsorterraceguy at July 30, 2009 8:25 AM

That inside schools report posted by ennui pretty much sinks the idea of a family buying this.

Posted by: dittoburg at July 30, 2009 9:11 AM

Under no stretch of the imagination is this in PLG, which ends at Clarkson Ave and Ocean. This is Flatbush, pure and simple -- not that there's anything wrong with that! I love this building and the apartments are amazing. Truly a reminder that Ocean Ave was once one of the most elegant of streets.

Posted by: babs at July 30, 2009 3:31 PM

I live nearby. There are several builings like this one just south of the park. There really are some great buildings. Someone with more historical knowledge as to the nature of the original development....

Because the immediate area is full of multifamily buildings, the changes that came to Ditmas Park and PLG to the north and south never really took hold there. There's still a good bit of Section 8 housing as well as blue collar and civil servants.

I would consider this part of Flatbush as opposed to any of the sub-neighborhoods. However, I've also seen it referred to as Parade Place.

Posted by: slick at July 31, 2009 7:07 PM

« Brooklyn Food & Drink Round-Up House of the Day: 156 Hicks Street Revisited »

July 29, 2009

Co-op of the Day: 416 Ocean Avenue, #12

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