Thursday Links

The condo building seems to be for homeless families, nt drug addicts- I say good for them. Homelessness is a nightmare most of us (I hope) wil never know. If the cost of getting a family off the street is giving them a marble sink, I'm all for it. All the new appliances notwithstanding, I would hardly want to trade my place for theirs if it meant swapping lives too.

As far as the murder at Harvard- why a young man was murdered is for the police to sort out, but destroying a young woman's life, especially one who has worked so long and so hard to get where she is, by throwing her out, without the diploma she earned- and all on speculation, not proof so far as we know, is especially heinous. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty or have we now become a country where the court of public opinion is now supreme?

Posted by: bxgrl at June 4, 2009 11:34 AM

dosteov- because it seems a little odd that someone who worked so hard, so well, and for so long to suddenly be involved in a murder and seeing as the rule is "innocent until proven guilty" why is she being punished? Harvard is supposed to be the place where you learn - and they are supposed to be setting an example. Well, if this is how they do it may I never have to use a Harvard-educated lawyer.

benson- oh, I get it! You're saying that because we did not express in the course of this particular conversation the same sympathy or concern for rich white boys at Duke, it's ok for Harvard to screw over a young Black woman? Even though Duke U. was never part of the conversation?

I hope the What will be kindhearted enough to lend you his meds.

Had the subject of Duke been brought up I certainly would have agreed they were wrongfully treated- but since the subject didn't come up, and I am not using the Vulcan mind meld with you, it wasn't in the conversation. Meanwhile kindly don't assume that you know what either I, MM or cobblehiller would have said. That just makes an ass out of U.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 4, 2009 12:34 PM

BS, benson- I'm going on the assumption that she's innocent until proven guilty. Since she is still innocent, and she is not charged with anything, yes- she's being screwed. She's being tried and condemned by the university and by people like you. YOu obviously think everything in our lives should be determined by innuendo, assumption and rumor.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 4, 2009 12:47 PM

I understand perfectly this applies only in a court of law. Sadly ofr all of us. However there are legal ramifications of what is happening to this girl by Harvard and if you think innocent until proven guilty is irrelevant I say you live with a very limited viewpoint. As for the court of public opinion- its based on stupidity and certainly nothing to be proud of.

as for Harvard- well if you are agreeing with benson, then you're both disproving your own points since benson's example of the boys from Duke University is a classic example of just how a reputable University can get it wrong. Both cases are similar in how the students were treated. benson foolishly tired to make an outlandish assumption with it but in fact that case actually proves my, MM & cobblehiller's point.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 4, 2009 1:33 PM

no- responding to fsrq. And I did not put anything racially- benson did actually. If you want nonsensical please read his initial post about Duke U. I don't believe in kneejerk racism from either side nad it does remain to be seen why the University acted as it did. my point is that this girl is not being allowed to graduate and get her diploma (which she seems to, by all accounts, have earned) and is being ripped apart in the court of public opinion while the university seems to be reluctant (justified or not, we really can only assume at this point) to explain why except in the most vague terms.

I agree she bears some responsibility for the internet coverage. She also made a mistake in her freshman year and it seems she and the University worked this out. That siad, I see no real reason why innocent until proven guilty isn't a common approach in life. maybe then we wouldn't being destroying young lives willynilly with speculative postings and our own assumptions.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 4, 2009 2:27 PM

fsrq- no, its not surprising and in an odd way he and I were making the same point about public opinion. But by using the Duke case he wound up illustrating that indeed yes a University will take action based on unproven or half baked facts against a student.

I do object to his assuming that MM, cobble and I would not have taken the same position in regards to white boys because they were rich and/or white. That's an assumption (and a very obnoxious one) on his part, that he made because Duke was not even in this conversation. I see no logic in claiming points for discussions that didn't happen (unless he was speaking from an alternative reality).

I honestly don't know what the real situation is regarding Harvard and I am not willing to say the Harvard is racist in this case because we don't have all the facts. But the story is news, and imho Harvard is doing this girl a double disservice by allowing rumor and innuendo to swirl around her. She's young. She's worked hard. She's intelligent and wasn't even around when the incident ocurred. Most of the facts seem to be at variance with the whole thing- but one fact does remain. She earned her degree.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 4, 2009 3:05 PM

sorry fsrG :-( on my computer it looks like a q

benson- you will think i am trying to be disengenuous but I honestly can't say I think that for sure re white guy from tony NJ suburb. Since I agree with you re the Duke case there is one thing- that case played out very publically and very manipulatively (is that a word?).

Not only was it a media circus, but District Attorney was so out of control he was removed from the case and eventually disbarred. But everything fed to the public re that case was deliberately done to manipulate opinion. If people didn't quite jump up and scream for justice for the players, it was certainly because so much information ( most of it inaccurate or simply untrue)was put out there. And in that case our idea of "jocks" played right into it-the same as racist perceptions play into how this girl is being treated.

The problem with the Harvard case is that information is not being put out there other than very basic facts, and the fact that Harvard is denying her a diploma and graduation ceremony. Right now all we have is speculation and minimal information - other than that, the treatment of the students is very similar and the resulting outcome may be also, if she is innocent.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 4, 2009 3:53 PM

"but it does probably (and, in my opinion, understandably) mean you won't hear them divulging details or defending their actions with the kind of facts that might satisfy you."

The case is under investigation. the police themselves haven't decided anything so how is it Harvard possesses immutable facts that supposedly dictate she should be denied her diploma and thrown out? Think it happened a little too quickly myself. And if her involvement was such as to warrant being thrown out of Harvard, don't you think the police would be pressing charges too, this being a murder investigation?

Posted by: bxgrl at June 4, 2009 4:06 PM

and I disagree- that's certainly your opinion and I have not put this into racial terms- you have. I would say you desire to believe the university undercuts your comment about skepticism whereas my positioin is that if the university had something so copelling that they kicked out the student and denied her diploma, then how is it the police are not showing more interest in her? Let's not discuss my "incomplete understanding" when yours is hardly more so.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 4, 2009 9:30 PM