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June 1, 2009

Teen-on-Teen Shooting on Downing Street

We received a tip—which we've since been able to confirm—that there was a double shooting on Saturday night in the schoolyard at PS 56 in Clinton Hill. Evidently there was some kind of gathering (described by one neighbor as "insanely loud") that had a number of teenagers at it and that at about 8:45 p.m. a boy and girl (ages 14 and 15) were shot by another teen who is still at large; neither victim was killed. Unfortunately, there seems to be a incident like this every year around this time. Any other neighbors hear the goings-on or witness the aftermath?

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Comments

it's called summer in the ghetto. what else is new

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 1, 2009 10:19 AM

Brownstoner what is your goal??? Seriously what are your trying to achieve???

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 10:25 AM

It's called local news...

Posted by: brownstoner at June 1, 2009 10:36 AM

It's called local news...

Posted by: brownstoner at June 1, 2009 10:36 AM

No motherfucker it's call Covert Race/Class warfare!!!!!!!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 10:44 AM

The cops told us Saturday night that the only injury was a "graze wound to the head." Small consolation I know. No further info now, but The Local will have something in a bit. Stay tuned.

Andy Newman
The Local
www.nytimes.com/clintonhill

Posted by: andynewman at June 1, 2009 10:47 AM

HEY WHAT.....What color are these kids???? And, why does it matter???

The only race aspect has been introduced by you.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 1, 2009 10:48 AM

Welcome back to the lunacy, Mr. B. Hope you had a lot of fun.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 1, 2009 10:54 AM

Hey Dave there was a party going on Stuyvesant and Chauncy! Did any thing happen there assfuck??!! Covert race/class warfare Brownstoner did not learn anything on his vacation!

The funny thing is Brownstoner never put out positive story on Clinton Hill, just more racebait claptrap bullshit! Read between the lines Dave...

The What (5 months..)

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 10:54 AM

as a neighbor of this school yard I often wonder who is in control of things there. It seems to be the only school yard I know of that is never locked and never seems to have any supervision at all. Other playgrounds and school yards around the city have posted hours, locked gates, the ones run by the parks department often have personnel on site. This school yard is a constant source of problems on the block. It is wonderful to have a place that people can go and play basketball, ride a bike or play hopscotch 24 hours a day. Don't get me wrong, I love that it exists for real recreational activities. However, it is also a location which draws large rowdy crowds at all hours of the night, drinking on the street, blaring music from cars and using it more as an outside living room than a park or playground. What would it take to get some real supervision over there?

the gather in Saturday was HUGE and very loud. They had no permits, there was no one supervising anything.

I am going to start writing letters to our elected officials to try to get something done. I hope others will join me.

Posted by: DowningStreet at June 1, 2009 10:55 AM

So that's what all that commotion was about. I heard/saw cop cars flashin and screetchin and folks yelling/screaming. Didn't hear the shots though.

Recent buyers: You paid how much to live in Clinton Hill?

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at June 1, 2009 10:55 AM

I overheard some girls at the bus stop this morning talking about this shooting. One of the girls keep talking about how little the gun was, while the other girl kept talking about the blood and how the bullet just missed going into the head.

I'm almost positive these girls knew the shooter, but as one girl said, "I ain't snitchin'"

If enhanced interrogation techniques were permitted, we'd have our shooter in no time.

Until then, we'll just have to be on the look out for an armed and dangerous teenager who has already fired his weapon without remorse. Hopefully, he doesn't strike again.

Posted by: Colonel Steve Austin at June 1, 2009 10:57 AM

I guess no shooting occurred at the Stuyvesant/Chauncey party, What. If it did it would be newsworthy. Stop being an idiot.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 1, 2009 11:00 AM

I was under the impression that public school yards were to be locked after hrs and on the weekends, does the school accept some liability when something of this nature occurs on school grounds?

I live on downing (moved in 99') and in fact I can look out my window at the barely washed blood stains along with school kids currently playing having no comprehension of what occurred sat night.

Every summer for the past 4 years there has been a shooting, this is the first i believe to be in the school yard. Most summers the yard is used for basketball, dogwalkers and mostly tame activities that usually end at dusk. Occasionally, like last summer there will be a massive barbeque accompanied with a live dj, speakers and a crowd that has absolutely no consideration for those who live on the block, it usually gets out of hand but sat. night was the first time for it to end with gunshots.

As for "summer in the ghetto" and the like,a brownstone on the block recently fetched 1.3 mil, there are artists, students and an assortment of professionals as well as 40yr plus residents on the block, save your pointless rhetoric for less serious events.

Posted by: DowningByLaw at June 1, 2009 11:03 AM

a lot of people really do not understand the no snitching thing. completely misinformed and ignorant. it has nothing to do with going to the police.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 1, 2009 11:04 AM

"Recent buyers: You paid how much to live in Clinton Hill?"

It's about Delusion BHO. In their minds Asshat Hill is the new Park Slope. I can't wait until this fall...

Can someone point out how many positive stories about Black people on Brownstoner??

Can someone point out how many positive stories about our neighborhood people on Brownstoner??

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 11:10 AM

"I can't wait until this fall..."

Is there an echo in here...?

We heard the same line last year.

Posted by: 11217 at June 1, 2009 11:13 AM

I heard the same thing on my block about the graze-wound thing. Small consolation really as that is just luck. It was a chaotic frightening situation for sure. Seems like the police handled it as well as could be expected. They were certainly there very fast and the situation quickly was brought under control without more insanity.

Posted by: wasder at June 1, 2009 11:14 AM

it's worse than last year tho 11217, and will continue to get worse. and im on for another year in park slope. let the degentrication being! woo woo

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 1, 2009 11:16 AM

the gather in Saturday was HUGE and very loud. They had no permits, there was no one supervising anything.

I am going to start writing letters to our elected officials to try to get something done. I hope others will join me.

Posted by: DowningStreet at June 1, 2009 11:17 AM

why does a teenager even own a gun? where does he keep it at home? mom, don't go in my room I don't want you touching my gun. I want to know who sold that kid his gun. where did it come from?

Posted by: flatbushed at June 1, 2009 11:23 AM

Everything in Clinton Hill is about me and I am a racist so all articles about Clinton Hill are racist.

I refuse to see that black people make contributions to this site, including a weekly article by montrose which highlights the beauty of my neighborhood and the accomplishments of the black residents to make and keep my neighborhood clean and safe.

I capitalize the b in black, but I call white people asshats.

Posted by: ghettoazzpnkbtch at June 1, 2009 11:26 AM

That's interesting, Rob. I don't know what your interpretation of degentrification is, but according to city, and despite this article, crime is down in NYC over last year, which was a record low.

Goes against everything the What has proclaimed, which is why he's pissed probably.

Not only is crime even lower, but the population of NYC has increased to 8.4 million people.

The mass exodus and rampant crime sprees simply haven't materialized.

Sorry to hear about this incident, but these things do still happen unfortunately. This is NYC, not Pleasantville. You don't want to hear about a shooting...the largest city in the country might not be the best place for you. We've got it pretty darn good these days to live practically on top of over 8 million other people and see 500 murders a year or so.

Posted by: 11217 at June 1, 2009 11:26 AM

quote:

This is NYC, not Pleasantville.

ugh. dont you SEE the irony in your statement? cuz it's people like YOU who want to turn nyc into pleasantville.. GRRRRR

*Rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 1, 2009 11:28 AM

You don't know me, Rob.

You think you know me, but you don't.

You really need to learn how to be more accepting of other people. The way you generalize and stereotype is really frustrating.

Take a cue from Benson's last line in the other thread...live and let live.

Posted by: 11217 at June 1, 2009 11:33 AM

Gun laws need to be tougher. Assault with a deadly weapon needs to carry a longer sentence with no parole. I also think we should bring back hard labor.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 1, 2009 11:33 AM

rob -- pls. stop feeling cool because some teenager shot some people 2 neighborhoods away from where you live.

But do feel free to move there if that's the kind of thing that turns you on.

Posted by: northsloperenter at June 1, 2009 11:35 AM

What, you really undermine many of your other intellectually sound posts with this kind of idiocy. With very few exceptions, this blog doesn't publish cute, profile-y stories about any people the way a typical neighborhood paper might...so before you go throwing around accusations, go look up how many "positive stories about neighborhood people" we've done about people in Brooklyn Heights or Park Slope (though our streetlevel post about the new Tattoo parlor on Greene Ave surely would qualify as the kind of thing you're complaining we never do)...You persist in projecting your own issues onto this blog when there is no reason to at all. If we had been emailed about a similar shooting in Park Slope or Boerum Hill this morning that had not been picked up in the mainstream media, chances are we would have posted that as well. Obviously when senseless shootings happen within shouting distance of our own house it is of particular concern to us and we have a vested interest in drawing attention to it. That's not a covert race war, it's a desire to reduce crime and violence where we happen to be raising our children. Get a grip.

Posted by: brownstoner at June 1, 2009 11:38 AM

Or start your own blog, What.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 1, 2009 11:45 AM

"What, you really undermine many of your other intellectually sound posts with this kind of idiocy. With very few exceptions, this blog doesn't publish cute, profile-y stories about any people the way a typical neighborhood paper might..."

Ok we have some "Clarity". The fucking Meds are working!

"o before you go throwing around accusations, go look up how many "positive stories about neighborhood people" we've done about people in Brooklyn Heights or Park Slope (though our streetlevel post about the new Tattoo parlor on Greene Ave surely would qualify as the kind of thing you're complaining we never do)"

Oh no stupid BLACK people! You know the ones with darker skin, likes Soul music and Rap.

"You persist in projecting your own issues onto this blog when there is no reason to at all. If we had been emailed about a similar shooting in Park Slope or Boerum Hill this morning that had not been picked up in the mainstream media, chances are we would have posted that as well."

I thought the Blog was about "the restoration of Brownstones"??????!!!!!!!!!!! That was your "Mission Statement" remember stupid or maybe it has transformed itself into Covert race/class warfare. You fucking knew the undercurrent of the story Jon. You post this fucking garbage to DIVIDE us not benefit where you live at!!!!

What if someone was thing on moving to Clinton Hill??? With this garbage you have killed that opportunity!!!!!!

"Obviously when senseless shootings happen within shouting distance of our own house it is of particular concern to us and we have a vested interest in drawing attention to it. That's not a covert race war, it's a desire to reduce crime and violence where we happen to be raising our children. Get a grip."

No Jon you want thing to be "DIFFERENT" and now you're being disingenuous...

The What (Brooklyn's Finest! Wish you could say that)

SOMEDAY THIS FUCKING WAR IS GONNA END!!!!!

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 11:49 AM

DowningStreet--who are you going to write to? Would love to join some kind of campaign to put pressure on the city to secure that yard. Let me know and I will also write to that person.

brownstoner--what else can we do with this board to draw attention to what DowningStreet mentions above?

Posted by: wasder at June 1, 2009 11:50 AM

Or start your own blog, What.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 1, 2009 11:45 AM

When you smell napalm...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 11:50 AM

Of course we want SOME things to be different--are you thrilled with a status quo where kids are shooting each other? or drug dealers doing business in broad daylight? how can you possibly take issue with advocating change on those fronts?

Posted by: brownstoner at June 1, 2009 11:58 AM

The problem in FG / CH is that things are so binary. Everybody talks about how "diverse" things are here, but that is really not true on a larger social level. This discussion is a great example.

Posted by: chorosch at June 1, 2009 12:01 PM

"What would it take to get some real supervision over there? "

Um, two kids shot may do it.

DIBS, the gun laws in NYC are pretty strict. I think there's a mandatory 2 year bid for carrying a loaded firearm.

But teens are teens... if the prospect of killing a couple of people and spending the rest of your life in jail doesn't make u stop and think, it's unlikely a 2 year bid will.

Posted by: denton at June 1, 2009 12:06 PM

"Of course we want SOME things to be different--are you thrilled with a status quo where kids are shooting each other? or drug dealers doing business in broad daylight?"

Years lived in Brooklyn: Brownstoner 7, The What (Born, raised and will die here)! That's the difference Iceman! Jon if you would walk out on Fulton St and around the neighborhood I would have a little more respect for you but you post fucking garbage from the comfort of your house. The same thing about the Fulton St. BID Dust up! Did you ask anyone who is opposed to it their side of the story??? No because you want to promote Covert race/class warfare asswipe!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 12:10 PM

denton, what I'm saying is that the 2 year for carrying should be 10 or more and for actually firing it at someone should be 20-50. These morons aren't ever going to learn.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 1, 2009 12:11 PM

I am going to write these people and I hope everyone else does as well. I have talked to a number of neighbors who are also going to write some letters. If enough of us write and make noise about this something is bound to happen. there's no excuse.

Letitia James - City Council Rep
District Office Address
67 Hanson Place
Ground Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11217
District Office Phone: 718-260-9191
Email: ljames@council.nyc.gov
link: http://council.nyc.gov/d35/html/members/home.shtml

Velmanette Montgomery - state senator
District Office
30 Third Avenue, Room 1100, 11th Fl.
Brooklyn, NY 11217
Tel: (718) 643-6140
Fax: (718) 237-4137
email: http://velmanettemontgomery.net/contactus.aspx
link: http://velmanettemontgomery.net/default.aspx

I'm also going to call the school principal who theoretically is in charge of the school yard.

P.S. 56 Lewis H Latimer School
PHONE: (718) 857-3149

Posted by: DowningStreet at June 1, 2009 12:13 PM

start the clock at 2000 - it'll take 25 yrs - 2025 - to see if clinton hill will replicate park slope, or even fort greene, and tons of inherent disadvantages - poor infrastructure relative to other neighborhoods. gentrification is a much longer process than people realize and real estate values got way too high in places that have a long way to go - too far too fast like alot of markets...hold on tight if you bought into the corco hype machine.

Posted by: 7182713 at June 1, 2009 12:17 PM

Why aren't you living here now, What??? And what are your thoughts about kids shooting kids?????

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 1, 2009 12:17 PM

"DIBS, the gun laws in NYC are pretty strict. I think there's a mandatory 2 year bid for carrying a loaded firearm."

Wrong 3.5 years in state prison but with the NY State budget short fall they may rescind the time for first time offenders (Putnamdiezen can elaborate). more if you "Bang it" but to a young person 3.5 years is 5 minutes and this law does not stop anyone from carrying a load firearm.

"Of course we want SOME things to be different--are you thrilled with a status quo where kids are shooting each other? or drug dealers doing business in broad daylight?"

Hey Dumbfuck the dealers was there when you brought your house. Everyone was on the fucking corner and people was getting shot on your block! You start a blog moaning and complaining about "Oh the drug dealers" but the Asshats are buying fucking drugs also!!!! You don't talk about the retards fueling the drug trade around Clinton Hill, HUH!!!!! Fuck you Jon I hope you lose it all..

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 12:17 PM

Why aren't you living here now, What??? And what are your thoughts about kids shooting kids?????

How do I know about a party in your neighborhood Dave???

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 12:20 PM

What, I have been wondering about why businesses oppose the BID. If you can tell us, I'd appreciate it.

Posted by: Heather at June 1, 2009 12:26 PM

Ah, another Monday in New York's most racist neighborhood....

Posted by: chorosch at June 1, 2009 12:26 PM

what, you're the one sitting in your house if you haven't seen mr. b walking around. he blogs from outside of the house, as we know. I live in the neighborhood and I see him everywhere, on his bike, walking with his kids, sitting on his stoop. I'm so sick of hearing your bs - you clearly have some brains - why not spare us your ridiculous, spoon fed rhetoric about covert race war. why would there be so many different kinds of people living here if the white ones had an agenda as nefarious as you describe. it's almost as if you want it to be so. that if it weren't, you would lose your raison d'etre, you would suddenly have to face your own self loathing realizing that the whole race thing is over for most people, especially people who move here.
I also have to agree w/ brownstoner; since when is not wanting crime a race thing or gentrification thing? anyone I've spoken to on my block, black or white, doesn't care for it.

Posted by: miss priss at June 1, 2009 12:30 PM

We've never understood the logic behind the whole "the drug dealers were here first so you have no right to complain about it" logic...perhaps that's because it's completely illogical.

Posted by: brownstoner at June 1, 2009 12:32 PM

I resort to cursing when I have no response. I am a hater with lots of free time to cut, paste and rant.

I have no solutions to the problems in my neighborhood. If I did, I would have made an effort to fix things. I find it easier to complain about everything than make an effort to make my neighborhood better. I am part of the problem, not the solution.

Posted by: ghettoazzpnkbtch at June 1, 2009 12:32 PM

DowningStreet, I've emailed James twice in the last year concerning the schoolyard to no avail, keep us posted if you get a response, I did not.
Early sunday morn i spoke to an officer sitting in a squad car in front of the park as to why the school yard is open 24/7 and he was dumbfounded as to why it wasn't closed, he cited a number of school yards that are locked. I would hate to deny the countless kids who enjoy and use the park responsibly, but there are a number of walkable public grounds to play ball in.

Posted by: DowningByLaw at June 1, 2009 12:33 PM

Isn't this really just the case of an unhappy, powerless person expressing rage over the conditions of his life? Whatever comfort and security comes from living among people who share those conditions gets ruined by the sudden presence of newcomers (who, of course, have very different priorities, potentials, etc.)

Of course the What doesn't want things to change, because that change is a daily reminder that he is powerless to effect his situation.

Of course Brownstoner wants things to change, his entire family structure and business model revolves around the idea that even if you're priced out of one neighborhood, you can always move into another, fix up your brownstone and wait for things to improve. It's disingenuous to pretend that it's just a school shooting or drug dealer you want to clean up. If that were the case, we wouldn't be subjected to the Flea.

You both do the community a disservice, and deserve each other.

Posted by: chorosch at June 1, 2009 12:49 PM

i think the parks hours have something to do with the history of it. I've been told this by long time residents of the block. before the school was built there was a park there. In order to get the community to sign off on the park becoming a school yard the school promised to leave it open outside of school hours so the community wouldn't lose its public space. This was probably a sensible solution at the time but in recent years it has been seriously abused by certain people in the neighborhood. All it needs is a little TLC and supervision. Perhaps just some cameras would do the trick.

Posted by: DowningStreet at June 1, 2009 12:51 PM

So sad. As someone who is raising his son around the corner from this shooting, it really gives me pause. And since I've lived over seven years on Putnam there has been a homicide nearby almost every year, and almost always involiving teenagers, it makes me wonder at my sanity. How can we not talk about this, and pause and wonder about our values, our community and our national obsessions with guns? [What's concern with driving down real estate prices by mentioning this is disgusting and quite frankly inconsistent with his normal admonitions that we are going to loose our shirts if not our lives for buying it what he often calls the ghetto.]
Guns aren't going to be controlled in Albany - but in Richmond Virginia or Washington DC where they seem to think it is okay to flood New York's streets with cheap guns. Teenagers need to be controlled by their parents and their communities.
So sad.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at June 1, 2009 12:55 PM

Someone who connects reporting on a school shooting with a flea market needs to explain more coherently what s/he means.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at June 1, 2009 12:57 PM

I guess that last one was directed at me? What I mean to say is that I do not think Brownstoner is merely an innocent observer of his neighborhood. Of course reducing crime (especially shootings!) is in everyone's interest. But sometimes he tries to come across as a plain old dad who doesn't want his kids to get hurt (no harm in that,) I just think he does it to deflect criticism.

The connection to the Flea is that, in my opinion, Brownstoner is trying to make a living by turning FG/CH into a brand that he can profit from. That is very different from engaging with the community as it stands, and working for social change & neighborhood improvements. The change is being imposed on the community whether it's appropriate or not. He's the polar opposite of the What, and I think both extremes are harmful to the social fabric in their own ways.

Posted by: chorosch at June 1, 2009 1:04 PM

"Of course the What doesn't want things to change, because that change is a daily reminder that he is powerless to effect his situation."

Everything was/is OK in my life. I saw no need to "Change" my situation. If I moved to a All White KKK city and stared to complain about the "Conditions" or "The Ammeties" they would run me out of town but you fucking retards don't get it. You think your presence improves a neighborhood??? I have bad news for you IT"S FUCKING OVER!!!! And if you think things are bad now, wait until the Greater Depression hits. Wall Street is fucking dead, Advertising is fucking dead and Mutant Asset Bubble related things are dead also. No money for jails, police and social service will be very bad.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 1:09 PM

He's the polar opposite of the What, and I think both extremes are harmful to the social fabric in their own ways.

Posted by: chorosch at June 1, 2009 1:04 PM

I'm harmful???!! I see a occupation of Covert race/class warfare. You are trying to be "Fair minded" but you're a Jackass!!!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 1:13 PM

"Guns aren't going to be controlled in Albany - but in Richmond Virginia or Washington DC where they seem to think it is okay to flood New York's streets with cheap guns."

Putz, you cannot legally buy a handgun in Washington DC unless you are law enforcement.

But he concept is right, they come from VA, TX, GA, etc

Posted by: denton at June 1, 2009 1:16 PM

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 1:09 PM

PSYCHOTIC

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 1, 2009 1:16 PM

B doesn't have to explain himself to anyone...complainers are just mascots for this site, like the rest of us.

Posted by: infinitejester at June 1, 2009 1:17 PM

"Wall Street is fucking dead,"

Hey What, Wall Street's looking very much alive today!

Posted by: denton at June 1, 2009 1:17 PM

I've never understood why carrying a gun & even killing someone get a lesser sentence than being caught w/ marijuana.

Posted by: Arkady at June 1, 2009 1:17 PM

I forget that my neighborhood has a long history. I assume everything I have ever experienced in my neighborhood is all that ever was or ever will be.

Change is not allowable without my approval.

I curse when I have nothing meaningful to say or retort to the obvious.

Posted by: ghettoazzpnkbtch at June 1, 2009 1:18 PM

Arkady, where you been? Reefer will no longer get you a two year mandatory sentence. Not for a user amount.

Posted by: denton at June 1, 2009 1:22 PM

chorosch -- Maybe people should have to send you an application before moving to a home in New York City so you could assess them and make sure they are the "right kind of people" before letting them in?

Like it or not, we don't live in closed communities. Last time I checked, we are all living in New York City, not some pissant town of 2000 souls in the middle of Appalachia.

Be grateful you are not the one being priced out of your home. If you think having new neighbors with a lifestyle different from your own is uncomfortable, imagine being priced out of your home (as many of us have been recently), moving somewhere new to build a life, and being greeted with indifference, hostility, and resentment.

What -- do you know what the difference is between the citizens in your "All White KKK city" and you? Me neither...

Posted by: northsloperenter at June 1, 2009 1:24 PM

"Wall Street is fucking dead,"

Hey What, Wall Street's looking very much alive today!

Posted by: denton at June 1, 2009 1:17 PM

That's the Uncle Sugar rush but wait for the tweeking..

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 1:24 PM

I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous. The history of every neighborhood is filled with stories of someone moving in and bettering their home, and their surroundings. These tales have no race, no class, because they are typical of every race and class. Harlem isn't the only place with a "Strivers Row", because most of us are striving to make where we live, and the community surrounding our homes, better, safer, more prosperous. To equate a concern with shootings to the success of a flea market is a stretch, and nothing more than sour grapes, if you ask me.

Speaking of which, shootings and the proliferation and tolerance of guns is not destroying the homes and lives of supposedly all white gentrifiers. Guns are killing young minority kids, innocent minority kids playing on the street or in a yard, as well as teenagers involved in gangs, or just antisocial behaviour. Guns are waved around like trophies, not the dangerous killing weapons they are, and some of these kids have no clue until they see their friend's blood pooling on the ground. All of us, black, white, rich, poor, oldtimer and newcomers should be screaming about getting guns off the streets, and building a national culture of intolerance for guns. Gun violence victims' advocacy groups grow in membership every day, yet the NRA has a stranglehold on our lawmakers that is as strong as ever, no matter how many people get killed on our streets, on campuses and schools. It's mind boggling in its shortsighted idiocy how we allow this to happen. Trust me, it's not only the "gentrifiers" who want guns off the streets, it's anyone with a brain.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at June 1, 2009 1:25 PM

If this shooting happened in the Underwood Park or in FG Park and the victims where innocent bystanders(as opposed to those guilty teenagers), would the community response be the same?

This is a wake up call. Let's not forget that there is still a young teenager walking the streets of CH/FG who is armed, has already shot up a playground and should be considered dangerous. I hope they catch him soon.

Posted by: Colonel Steve Austin at June 1, 2009 1:26 PM

What, you are correct. Mandatory sentence is 3.5 years now for carrying a gun in NYC.

Started at one year. Then raised to two years. Now 3.5. Like DIBS said, why not make it ten? That won't work either.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122835270947177981.html

Posted by: denton at June 1, 2009 1:26 PM

downing street is one of the tougher parts of clinton hill. a lot of gangs in that area...

Posted by: aj at June 1, 2009 1:29 PM

This from a lurker and infrequent poster so my asshat opinion is for naught...but it's time for the what to take a permanent vacation. what a complete worthless POS.

Posted by: MAT at June 1, 2009 1:35 PM

Guns are not the cause, it's a culture of "criminal life is cool and existentially meaningful" that no one ever addresses.

White people may like to act like thugs for a bit, but then they can go back to their comfortable lives for the most part. The people whose existences are mapped out by a constant criminal lifestyle are by and large minorities. As Theodore Dalyrmple once wrote, no worse fate than being born intelligent and sensitive in a ghetto.

Posted by: infinitejester at June 1, 2009 1:44 PM

One last thing.. A Black Cop was Gunned down by his fellow offers and there was no mention of this story but lets have a heaping dose of Covert Race/Class warfare.

You never read this headline: 'Black cop shoots white cop'

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/05/30/2009-05-30_its_never_black_cop_shoots_a_white_cop.html

Many will assume that the killing of Officer Omar Edwards was the result of a tragic but honest mistake, an accident with no malice or racial bias at work.
That would be a reasonable conclusion - and a dead wrong one.

Hey this story has something to do with our "neighborhood" right???

Montrose Morris is a apologist! Thanks Morris for providing more hated of you...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 1:45 PM

MM, I have to respectfully, and rarely, disagree with you on this issue--firearms.

We live in a violent society. Statistically, there are more murders committed with knives in the US than with all weapons combined in some other countries, such as Canada.

Therefore, if tom'w we magically removed every single gun from the country, we'd still have a higher murder rate than less violent countries. Maybe higher, as many would lose the defense aspect of owning a gun and would become victims. And we'd then have other problems.

And just the fact that mandatory sentences for gun possession keep on going up up and away, and yet fail to deter some teens from not only carrying, but using, guns shows that there are deeper issues involved. And we know what they are, but it's easier to just scream 'gun control'.

Certainty of capture and punishment is more important to stop kids from carrying guns than long mandatory sentences. I know this from personal experience. But when you go back to the bad old 'stop and frisk everyone' days, that brings up a whole 'nuther set of issues.

But I suppose this is not the forum for a good gun control debate. Hell, we might get the post count up to 800!

Posted by: denton at June 1, 2009 1:45 PM

Re: chorosch's conspiracy theory, if our goal were to turn CH & FG into a brand for our own profit and glory, don't you think we'd leave out unseemly realities like shootings from the rosy narrative that, by the way, don't do a lot to boost our home values in the meantime? We're invested long term in the neighborhood both as a homeowner and business owner and won't be cowed by people who say that we shouldn't raise our voice because we've only been in the neighborhood a few years. Insane.

Posted by: brownstoner at June 1, 2009 1:45 PM

Theodore Dalyrmple of the Manhattan Institute???

Ok That's it! Thanks guys for the Ammo!!!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

The What (Throws a copy of the Bell Curve at infinitejester)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 1:48 PM

"Many will assume that the killing of Officer Omar Edwards was the result of a tragic but honest mistake, an accident with no malice or racial bias at work.
That would be a reasonable conclusion - and a dead wrong one."

No argument there, What.

Ain't a single instance on record of a Black cop shooting a white UC. Quite a few the other way around tho.

Posted by: denton at June 1, 2009 1:48 PM

Re: The Flea

I think the opening of the Dumbo Flea as well as the new one to start under the Brooklyn Bridge goes to show Brownstoner's involvement with much more of Brooklyn than just the Ft. Greene/Clinton Hill area.

This blog is an asset to ALL of Brooklyn...not simply Ft. Greene and Clinton Hill.

Posted by: 11217 at June 1, 2009 1:52 PM

Who cares what chorosch says. What, how un-New York of you not to live and let live.

Posted by: infinitejester at June 1, 2009 1:52 PM

You know, it could be worse. In Northern Ireland last week an angry mob killed a guy in front of his house over a soccer match.

Posted by: Heather at June 1, 2009 1:56 PM

Denton - my reference to DC was (of course) to recent pro-gun ammendments acqueisced to by the democrats at the federal level. And if you find writing "Putnamdenizen" too much, feel free to just call me "Jake." Putz is uncalled for.

I am shocked, but not surprised, that so many here are willing to reduce the teenagers injured to fodder for their hateful accusations of one another.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at June 1, 2009 1:57 PM

What, (a) that incident took place in Harlem and (b) was widely covered in the mainstream press. Something tells us the PS 56 shooting wasn't going to make the front page. But this is and excellent example of why some of your rantings are so hard to take. Of course your point (and that of Errol Louis) that our society has been and continues to be biased against people of color is a valid one. But when it is the only prism through which you view every single discussion or issue you encounter, and when you ascribe racist motives to everything and everyone, it becomes hard to take you seriously.

Posted by: brownstoner at June 1, 2009 1:58 PM

Maybe we should all be good christians & confine our shootings to people in church.

Posted by: Arkady at June 1, 2009 2:07 PM

ut when it is the only prism through which you view every single discussion or issue you encounter, and when you ascribe racist motives to everything and everyone, it becomes hard to take you seriously.

I live in America Brownstoner and no some "Mind utopia" you've created for yourself. My view of Brooklyn and the world is very different than your and when everyone was going insane over the Mutant Asset Bubble, I was telling people that it was unstainable and guess what happen, fall '08 was the first crash and still the idiots was incredulous over that event! The sad thing is the transplants don't really know "THE REAL NEW YORK" and your delusion is going to get you or someone you know killed. Brownstoner I'm thru disgusting this issue with you and please continue with you insanity. T-Minus 5 months Assholes...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 2:15 PM

Now you're changing the subject. You've received plenty of kudos for your take on the housing bubble, including praise from us. The issue at hand is your inability to have a rational discussion about neighborhood issues without immediately hurling accusations of racism.

Posted by: brownstoner at June 1, 2009 2:20 PM

"My view of Brooklyn and the world is very different than your"

Yes, the main difference is that Brownstoner seems to have a happy life and family, and writes this blog not only for curiosity sake but to also make a living, while you seem to have a miserable existence trolling said website 24 hours a day with no goal in sight other than to b&tch and moan.

Your view of Brooklyn sucks, quite frankly.

Posted by: 11217 at June 1, 2009 2:21 PM

Mr. B - I don't think anyone actually takes the What seriously. He's a monomaniac.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 1, 2009 2:21 PM

hey brownstner,

you had a thread about instituting moderation of trolls.

(what)ever became of it?

take a look at slashdot. and get a good coder to create something similar.

we wouldnt feed the trolls so much if they were quickly buried.

Posted by: bkn4life at June 1, 2009 2:25 PM

" You've received plenty of kudos for your take on the housing bubble, including praise from us."

I have to clean coffee off my walls!!!! When Brownie, when... 2006? 2007? early 2008? When..

"The issue at hand is your inability to have a rational discussion about neighborhood issues without immediately hurling accusations of racism."

It is what it is, stupid. There are some business that need your help on Fulton St, put you money where your mouth is.

Oh I'm sorry there is no "Marauding Teenagers" or "Drug Bars" to talk about...

The What (5 months)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 2:31 PM

Hey 11217 did the Brownstoner community tear you a new asshole???? You ran like a little bitch and did not post for a while??? ROTFLMMFAO Pussy!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at June 1, 2009 2:32 PM

The average price widget is cool but can we get a What armageddon in Brooklyn clock going?

"T-Minus 5 months Assholes..."

Posted by: eh at June 1, 2009 2:34 PM

I have no life so I can post here all day every day. I am lucky I am no longer a delivery man.

Posted by: ghettoazzpnkbtch at June 1, 2009 2:35 PM

Well, I wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory. And I never once made reference to the length of your time in the neighborhood. I agree with you that the issues you are raising are important, and I hate this idea that newer residents aren't "real" if they've only been in the neighborhood a few years.

My comments were more based on the fact that, regardless of the subject of the post, just about any conversation in this neighborhood can devolve into a binary old/new rich/poor black/white debate, because that's really what's on people's minds.

Now, whether or not you post on some of the neighborhood's downsides to add a degree of authenticity to your "news" coverage, or whether you are just really genuinely invested in the area, I don't know. But I do think, as a business owner, your actions point your interest in a very particular direction. That's all. I'm not saying people need approval to move into the area or anything like that. And, unlike some of the suggestions above, I do in fact know exactly what it's like to lose my home and move to neighborhood after neighborhood looking for a nice place to live, including all the hostility that can come with it.

I just don't get why we are expected to think your motivations are neutral because you also occasionally report on crime. Correct me if I'm wrong! Maybe you are doing community work I don't know about. I'm willing to change my mind if there's reason to.

Posted by: chorosch at June 1, 2009 2:38 PM

I'm always surprised when folks get upset over race being brought into the dicussions on this blog. If we except that race is a factor in everything-it's in the walls and the carpet--then maybe we can just move forward as a group and resolve some of our racial biases--b/c they do exist.

Good job Brownstoner for reporting this incident. It's not unfounded that a groupd of kids shoot each other at the begninning of summer. Happen in a lot of places, both urban and rural. I think it's to do with class, not so much race.
Mostly though--it's to do with boredom and heat.

Posted by: grip100692 at June 1, 2009 2:42 PM

chorosch, you are all over the place and I think all you are trying to do is provoke Mr. B. He will not "correct you if I'm wrong" - no one cares.

Posted by: infinitejester at June 1, 2009 2:46 PM

You're probably right. I think the issues I'm concerned with probably belong in another thread. I'll leave it alone.

Posted by: chorosch at June 1, 2009 2:49 PM

"I just don't get why we are expected to think your motivations are neutral because you also occasionally report on crime. Correct me if I'm wrong! Maybe you are doing community work I don't know about."

I don't get it... Reporting on crime IS community work.

Posted by: northsloperenter at June 1, 2009 2:50 PM

"And if you find writing "Putnamdenizen" too much, feel free to just call me "Jake." Putz is uncalled for."

Didn't mean anything by that, I just hate typing long names.

Posted by: denton at June 1, 2009 3:42 PM

Denton, I agree we live in a violence prone society, that's why we don't need anymore guns. Maybe we should go back to packing swords. They cause some horrific damage close up, but rarely kill innocent people sitting across the street on their stoop. I really don't want to get into a right to bear arms argument, today. I also agree that for too many kids of all persuasions, guns are cool, and pointing one sideways at someone with that angry, in your face 'tude makes one the biggest badass in the room, instead of the biggest idiot.

What, Jon doesn't need me as an apologist. My column here is a business arrangement and a source of expression for me. I'm grateful for the opportunity, but wouldn't have it if I didn't come with my own abilities and skills, which Jon and others appreciate. I also come with my own opinions on social issues which are my own, as well. I don't really care that you don't like those opinions or the person making them. You often have valid points. You obscure them by sounding like an unmedicated and unmitigated fool. I know you know the difference.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at June 1, 2009 4:08 PM

Wow, this was a ridiculous thread today! It's been a while since something this scattered has formed on this blog... well done everyone.

To summarize, it's been settled that (1) Brownstoner is run my a racist; (2) Any mention of teens shooting teens is just another example of covert class/race warfare; (3) We can't expect Brooklyn to improve because the drug dealers and violence are what makes Brooklyn special; (4) you have to have lived in the same neighborhood since 1923 to understand the "real" whatever it is; (5) Wall Street is dead forever; and (6) black folks like crime and the gentrifiers don't get it.

Did I capture everything about right? I will be submitting this summary to the board at the next meeting.

Posted by: tybur6 at June 1, 2009 4:34 PM

"Covert Race/Class warfare!!!!!!!"

Hey What,

Brownstoner may or may not be about race and class, and it may or may not be an example of warfare, but it is definitely NOT an example of covert activity. Please adjust your catchphrases accordingly!

Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at June 1, 2009 4:41 PM

Tybur6,

I so agree with you AND your exacting synopsis. In the days before the "Open Thread", which I for one miss hugely, we used to get these diatribe-ridden, passionate, educational, misinformed, misanthropic, thoughtful and all together entertaining threads several times a week. This was the first one I can recall since the Open Thread started several months ago. Sigh.

Posted by: Nokilissa at June 1, 2009 5:20 PM

Credibility index: B'stoner up 10%. The What down 30%. Cratering. Dick Cheney territory. So much for the loyal opposition. He's a train wreck. Somebody boost his meds.

Posted by: marlowe at June 1, 2009 8:00 PM

Downing, I don't know if you'll see this or not, I'm sorry I missed this yesterday. But a good place to start with getting a school yard closed might be to approach the Community Board, they likely have a regularly scheduled meeting with the Police Dept. and the Schools, called Public Safety or some such thing. Worth a try?

Posted by: cobblehiller at June 2, 2009 1:16 PM

Btw, this note is for M4L. I'm sorry I was getting so creeped out by you the other day. One of your acquaintances wrote to me privately to tell me that "you're alright", and that I shouldn't be freaked by your postings.

But do me a favor, and just stop with the taking notes, ok?! : )

Posted by: cobblehiller at June 2, 2009 1:25 PM

"All of us, black, white, rich, poor, oldtimer and newcomers should be screaming about getting guns off the streets, and building a national culture of intolerance for guns. Gun violence victims' advocacy groups grow in membership every day, yet the NRA has a stranglehold on our lawmakers that is as strong as ever, no matter how many people get killed on our streets, on campuses and schools. It's mind boggling in its shortsighted idiocy how we allow this to happen."

Strict laws only work for the law abiding. Black market by definition operates outside laws. OUTlaw.

I'm a lifelong NYr, democrat, socially liberal etc etc and I support the 2nd amendment. Outlaw guns and not only have you started dismantling our rights in earnest, but that would leave only the military and cops armed. Think about that one.

Posted by: bridges at June 2, 2009 3:46 PM

I agree. The first step of any tyrant is to disarm the people. High crime areas always have the strictest gun laws and the first gun law in the country was a blatant attempt at discriminating against Italian immigrants. The Sullivan act was the first law requiring a license to own a handgun. The intent was to keep guns out the hands of Italian immigrants by having the mostly Irish police force decide who could have a gun. The history of the Mafia in the 2oth century might have been cut short if unarmed citizens in immigrant communities weren't forced to choose between corrupt police made up of other ethnic groups or criminals from their own ethnic groups that were able to intimidate the unarmed populace for protection. Instead these immigrants should have been able to protect themselves as was their God-given right.

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 6, 2009 2:29 PM

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June 1, 2009

Teen-on-Teen Shooting on Downing Street

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