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June 11, 2009

Ratner Cans Gehry For Good

atlantic-yards-061109.jpg
Yesterday Forest City Ratner made official what everybody already knew: Architect Frank Gehry, his name having been prostituted to sell a sham project to the public, will have nothing to do with the design of any of the buildings in the Atlantic Yards footprint. “We do not anticipate that Mr. Gehry will be designing any of the individual buildings,” said Joe DePlasco, a spokesman for Mr. Ratner. Jettisoning Mr. Gehry is expected to generate $200 million in savings for the developer. But don't cry any tears for Gehry: The Times reports that he's already been paid "tens of millions of dollars" for his work up to this point.
Gehry Is Out as Designer of Project in Brooklyn [NY Times]
Photo by Tracy Collins




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Please. The only sham was delaying the project in court for so long that its no longer affordable as originally planned. No Gehry for us. Boo Hiss.

Posted by: eastriver at June 11, 2009 9:43 AM

This is the fruit of Develop Don't Destroy's labor. Congratulations DDD: delaying this project has resulted in this now half-baked development.

And for those that vehemently believe that the original Gehry plan would have been completely out of context, I can only think about Stuy-Town/PC Village. There is a completely out-of-context development with the East Village that somehow doesn't stir many people today, and ironically HAS FOMRED ITS OWN COMMUNITY IDENTITY OF S-T/PCV LOYALISTS. It would absolutely blow DDD's mind to even fathom that a massive development in the Atlantic Yards might one day harbor its own self-contained proud community. You just never know...

Posted by: JPD at June 11, 2009 9:47 AM

Once again, the media and community activists prove they know nothing of economics. How can anyone not understand that lowered income and higher financing costs means there is less money for interesting architectural details?

I cringe when I think how these types will react to the coming maelstrom this fall when the realities of our precarious economic state will become too great to ignore or for the media to spin.

Posted by: Polemicist at June 11, 2009 9:53 AM

Don't be fooled--read Norman Oder's superb reporting. Gehry was always just window dressing for Ratner, and sooner or later Gehry was going to get thrown under the bus. The original drawings were a big fiction, just like the "low-cost housing" that would be paid for not by Ratner but by shifting other public housing monies to AY.

The bottom line for Ratner was and is getting his hands on free taxpayer money and subsidies so he can make big bucks on the project with little or no risk to himself.

Oder also points out how Ratner's alleged reason for dumping Gehry--the cost--is disingenuous. The difference between the Gehry stadium and the Ellerbie Becket is only 20%, and Ratner's figures for the Gehry project weren't adjusted to account for lower construction costs post-crash.

It's really all about getting the arena underway before the tax exemption runs out on December 31st. Gehry's design requires that the arena be surrounded by towers; Ellerbe Becket's is a free-standing box. So it can be rushed into construction more easily.

Posted by: WonTon at June 11, 2009 10:02 AM

WonTon, welcome back. Where have you been???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 11, 2009 10:04 AM

Hi Dave. Spending the winter in Hong Kong, of course.

Posted by: WonTon at June 11, 2009 10:06 AM

"Tens of millions spent" to Gehry, as I suspected the other day. Great gig for him, spend a few years designing a project, indulge in great hype and media attention, make lots of models, then lots of changes and more models, get massively paid, and then walk away without having to have all the headaches of working out the gazillion kinks and problems that arise in building never been done before architecture and engineering. I know that's very cynical, and I'm also totally excluding the enormous sense of disappointment that comes from designing something you think is fabulous, and then you aren't able to build it, and see it realized. Been there, so I really do empathize in that respect, only I never got massively paid in the process. Guess I'm just angry at the waste of it all, probably, in the long run, on New Yorker's dime.

I also like how the Times states that 40% of the 6,000 units of originally proposed housing would go to "low, moderate, and middle-income families." Considering they were including family incomes up to $130K in that broad catagory, it really isn't as altruistic as it sounds on paper. I'm sorry, a family of four with an income of $130K is in a whole different world than a family of four making $38K, which is more of the median in much of Brooklyn. The number of truly affordable low and middle income units was always much less in real numbers, and was not even promised on site, or promised to be built until a majority of the 60% of luxury housing had sold. With thousands of "luxury" condos sitting empty, going rental, or going unfinished, it is inconceivable that this project would do that well. It was inconceivable during the boom days, but to say so then was seen as negative and NIMBY. Now, it's a sign of good precognitive ability, not to mention common sense.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at June 11, 2009 10:06 AM

All of a sudden Norman is a fan of Gehry? Where have you been the past few years? I think these people are realizing they have done more harm than good and are trying to back down and shift the blame.

Posted by: eastriver at June 11, 2009 10:09 AM

jpd:

if you put something the scale of stuytown with its open space ratio and put it on the table, i am pretty sure goldstein et al would jump at it.

ratnervile is a few orders of magnitude larger. not the same animal at all.

Posted by: bkn4life at June 11, 2009 10:14 AM

Just one more downsize to go, which is from the new model to a kiosk in the Atlantic Terminal that sells Nets keychains. Then we'll be getting somewhere.

Posted by: Footprint Gazette at June 11, 2009 10:15 AM

Norman's no fan of the Gehry plan. Go and read his latest posts. What he is doing is digging a little deeper than the New York Times and the other media to come up with the real reason behind Gehry getting dumped. Which has nothing to do with the DDDB lawsuits and everything to do with Ratner's real agenda: squeeze every tax subsidy and break he can get away with, while building as cheaply as possible.

The same tactics that brought you such other beautiful Ratner developments like Atlantic Center, Atlantic Terminal and MetroTech.

A lot of people got hosed by the Gehry flim flam. But anybody with eyes could see what real Ratner style "development" looks like.

Posted by: WonTon at June 11, 2009 10:16 AM

WonTon and MM, it is not Ratner's or any developer's job to set the guidelines for low/moderate/mid-income housing. Any business person is going to look to maximize profit.

WonTon, trying to think of Ratner's original intentions for Gehry's designs is pure conjecture.

MM, designers often have unrealized commissions. Life goes on.

Posted by: JPD at June 11, 2009 10:18 AM

WonTon...come to the party on June 17.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 11, 2009 10:19 AM

Thanks dave but no can do. I've got a date with some dumplings.

Posted by: WonTon at June 11, 2009 10:20 AM

I actually live a block from where they were going to start ripping shit up and I have to say Im pretty happy. I however moved after 2005 and wasnt part of the protest.

also the whole Stuy Town thing JDB is blabing about is stupid. Lots of people lots their homes and had no say because they were very poor and it was the 40's and 50's and no one had a say these matters. I remember reading an artcile somewhere about the huge parking lot below Delancey which was once filled with regular streets and housing. They bulldozed it all and then realized they didnt have to money to keep going so they turned it into a parking lot. Rewind 60 years later....still a parking lot.

Posted by: Santa at June 11, 2009 10:23 AM

Remember FCR's arena was approved at $637 million. In less than 2 years it went up to $950, and now $800 million, they say. Construction materials did not go up at that rate. Why did it go up so much; was it affordable at approval? Was it ever possible to build architecturally or financially? No. Especially ever since Forest City scrapped the commercial tower that never had any demand anyway.

Notably Ouroussoff's tirade places the blame squarely on Forest City Ratner's head and, to a lesser extent, government—right where it belongs.

Our opposition to Atlantic Yards, to name just a few reasons, has always been about the political corruption, the sweetheart, backroom deals, the laughable and undemocratic approval "process," the ongoing bait-and-switch, the feeding from the public subsidy trough, the abuse of eminent domain, the superblocks, and the offensive scale and density of the project. We also weren't too pleased when the now-lamented Gehry said in 2003 that he was "excited to build a neighborhood practically from scratch."

The opposition is about the concept of the arena itself, NOT what it looks like or who designed it. It was wrongheaded as a concept in 2003, and it is wrongheaded as a concept now. An arena doesn't belong and doesn't fit in the fabric of Brownstone Brooklyn, or any residential neighborhood. That is why city zoning regulations, overridden in this instance by the state, do not allow arenas in residential neighborhoods.

Ellerbe Becket, Lemony Snicket or Frank Gehry could be the architect, but it all would be just so much window-dressing on an affront to the community.

There is no accounting for taste. Some like Gehry some don't. Some like Ellerbe Becket (really, some do) and some don't. Whether one prefers spaceships or airplane hangars is not the issue.

We fully understand that Ouroussoff must view the project through his critic's lens, and well he should (though had he brought his skeptic's lens earlier, he might not be kicking himself now.) And though we don't agree with him that Atlantic Yards was ever about the public good—even as architecture—we do agree with him that Ratner's dumping of Gehry is a "shameful betrayal of the public trust," and a bait-and-switch.

The final dots that need to be connected are left unconnected by Ourossoff. Bait-and-switchers don't just bait-and-switch once, it is a pattern. And if Ratner's Gehry bait-and-switch is stunning, so is the bait-and-switch on "affordable" housing, "publicly accessible open space," job creation, commercial space, reneging on a contract with the MTA, and changing the project timeline from 10 years to, unofficially "decades" and officially 6 years to build just the arena according to state financing documents. Atlantic Yards itself is a monument to bait-and-switch.

And remember, numerous times over the past six months various Ratner team members, including Bruce Ratner, Nets President Brett Yormark, and Forest City Ratner mouthpiece Joe DePlasco have all told the public, through reporters, that Frank Gehry was their architect for the arena when all the while Elllerbe Becket was working up their new "spiritless box" or "airplane hangar."

Why should anyone trust Forest City about anything they say or do, at this point?

Now we need our elected leaders, starting with Gov Paterson, to restore the public trust, to convince us that they view the public as more than mere play things for duplicitous developers and backdrops for ribbon cuttings. We need the man in charge of the two agencies preparing to make concessions to Forest City for its Zombie Project—the MTA and the Empire State Development Corporation—to say enough is enough, and take away Ratner's tackle box so the Atlantic Yards bait-and-switch ploys can be put to rest.

Posted by: DDDB at June 11, 2009 10:32 AM

Santa, the point that you make that no one cares about the LES parking lot today is true--NO ONE CARES! No one is fighting to have Brooklyn return to its 17th-century farmland, or to have Williamsburg revert back to 2-architectural genrations ago (working class wood-frame houses before 1-story warehouses before high-rise condos), etc. Most nostalgia is very short-sighted. Two generations later from now, people will not care or fight to have back what AY is today, because we are not losing something like the old Penn Station here!

Posted by: JPD at June 11, 2009 10:34 AM

JDP, when the taxpayer's hard earned bucks are being used to finance this project, when the developer is spending megabucks of other people's money to market it as the greatest project in the history of building, for the people of Brooklyn, when the promise of jobs and "affordable" housing is touted and emphasized to minority organizations and minority groups in order to get their support, and when the threat of eminent domain - the appropriation of someone's property, for a private developer's use, is deemed reasonable and doable, then I think that that developer bears responsibility for a whole lot more than setting levels for low to moderate income housing. If he is getting public money and tons of public concessions and tax breaks, then he should be accountable to that public. If he was using his own money, with no sweetheart deals, paid full market price to the MTA, and anyone else, then I couldn't say much, but he's not.

I am also well aware that a lot of commissions never get built. It happens every day. However, this one happened with my dime, as well as the dime of every taxpayer in the city, and well beyond. That gives me bitching rights.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at June 11, 2009 10:37 AM

JDP,

A mini Stuytown would be wonderful.

Just keep in mind; Stuytown/PC village is 80 acres with aprox. 25,000 residents.

Ratner's AY is only 22 acres with an expected 15,000 residents, 10,000 office workers, a hotel and an arena. The density is absurd.

Posted by: soundfreak at June 11, 2009 10:39 AM

Whose money was it
If Gehry got paid millions?
Did we foot the bill?

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at June 11, 2009 10:48 AM

Fucking disaster. Totally agree with DDDB. This project was as cynical as they come and was only possible with a complicit and spineless local government.

I hope FCR gets its comeuppance.

Posted by: FatLenny at June 11, 2009 10:53 AM

Ah, Montrose,(as always)you put it so well. Let me add that the Atlantic Yards fiasco highlights the need to put some real teeth into the concept of "community benefit" agreements. We are long past the point where they should be unenforceable carrots used to buy off community organizations (real or imagined) and create the illusion of community support. Instead, when the government (city, state or federal) subsidizes the projects of private developers, there should be real community benefits (housing, public space, etc) as part of the negotiated agreement – not payoffs for support. It would help keep the time frame for the completion of “community benefits” from being pushed to the end of the development line – if not ignored completely.
For the life of me, I can’t understand the anger at DDDB – they haven’t gotten a dime of the huge amount of subsidies that have already gone into the pockets of the developer. If one is going to be angry, why not be angry at the people who lied – not the people who have been saying all along that the emperor has no clothes, and trying to stop the funneling of tax dollars into corporate pockets.

Posted by: Brooklyn Red at June 11, 2009 10:59 AM

Guys it's over go home...

The What (FFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Boom!)

Someday the delusion is gonna end...

Posted by: Return of The What at June 11, 2009 11:06 AM

I understand and support questioning/fighting abuses of public monies, abuses by elected officials, abuses of eminent domain.

Where DDDB loses me fighting out-of-context development specifically at the Atlantic Yards and the Gehry fiasco. DDDB's site takes issue to Ratner's plans' proximity to Park Slope/Prospect Heights, when less than 50% borders these neighborhoods. Atlantic and Flatbush Avenues are the best roads in Brooklyn to accommodate this kind of development, not to mention the transport at the Atlantic Terminal.

If DDDB's focus is truly on the corruption involved in this project, they had better ramp up their PR ASAP. Because they look like a bunch of rich whiny brats that aren't satisfied with any proposal for the AY, and have now just ruined a potentially good thing.

Posted by: JPD at June 11, 2009 11:20 AM

Further DDDB, after looking at the occupations of your Advisory Board, it would help your cause to have a more-round group of people beyond those with Arts Degrees (i.e. to have some developers, business-owners, corporate-workers, etc).

Posted by: JPD at June 11, 2009 11:29 AM

sweet heart this, back room that, who gives a sh*t! it's politics and biz as usual .. yawn...

to claim that the end result isn't in context or necessary, is a JOKE! that current AY area sucks sucks sucks sucks!!

adding a stadium and housing to an area that currently harbors garbage and a ghetto, is AWESOME and exciting.

i am pissed off that the delays cost Brooklyn a Gehry stadium. this can be 100% blamed on the anti-AY crowd. there is no proof that this was ratner's original plan.

Posted by: wine lover at June 11, 2009 11:30 AM

But this WAS a ruse!
Wine lover, where's the "ghetto"?
You are wrong, young man.

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at June 11, 2009 11:34 AM

Wine lover displays
Institutional racism
Trash is from Ratfink

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at June 11, 2009 11:49 AM

Completely agree with MM, Brooklyn red and DDDB. AY has been baiting and switchig since it started. I'm sure DDDB can remember this better than I can, but didn't Ratner promise public greenspaces for the community and then it got bumped up to an arena rooftop park, first to be for the public and then switched again to project residents? This while absorbing a section of Pacific St. and closing it off.

I really don't know that Ratner initially knew he would fire gehry at some point, but Gehry's name on his project certainly added cachet and that is a selling point to politicians who love that sort of thing. Makes them feel cultured and enlightened while they decide how to spend taxpayer money for us lumpenproletariat. Whatever the situation now, I do think Ratner originally had some lofty plans and probably wanted to overcome his reputation as a developer of banal or poorly designed projects.

I'm always cynical of people who prate the "we're helping the community line" and trot out the figureheads at press conferences to show they really mean it. Even worse are the community activist who fell for it and sold out. Some of them were simply naive to think Ratner would keep his promise. He didn't give them any guarantees about when and where he would build low income housing, and the agreement forbids them to speak negatively about AY and FCR. Now, if he had nothing to hide, why would he need that? He wouldn't, unless he never planned to follow through. And no matter how I feel about Bertha Lewis' astonishing metamorphosis into Uriah Heep, I don't think families earning 130,000 qualified in her book as needy or low income. But she accepted the income breakdown as p[art of the deal.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 11, 2009 11:58 AM

I told you two years ago that the NETs would play in Newark NJ and everyone laughed at me! No work in the pit since August '08, Carlton Ave bridge is out, blight all over the place and Ratner has run out of money and time. Give it a fucking rest already nothing will be built here for a generation!

Ratner is trying to find a tenant to occupy the Circuit City space and the top floors are empty. Commercial Real Estate and Atlantic Yards is dead...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

Posted by: Return of The What at June 11, 2009 12:09 PM

Poor Bertha Lewis...
Lumpenproletariat...
Money walks **** walks!

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at June 11, 2009 12:17 PM

I've said this before. Whether or not you support or oppose AY, there was simply no way that this wasn't going to be heavily litigated. Certainly anyone with as much experience in NYC RE development as the folks at FCR could have seen it coming. Between the scale, proximity to several affluent and architecturally rich neighborhoods, and lack of public planning process, no way this was going to get built without significant and lengthy legal challenges, regardless of the legal merits. Nothing that has happened since the project was announced should be at all surprising to FCR or its supporters. The costs of these delays should therefore have been in the business plan. FCR was either incredibly stupid in failing to foresee the costs of litigation-related delays, or Gehry's release is due to the economic downturn, not anticipated litigation delays.

Posted by: slopefarm at June 11, 2009 1:43 PM

Today's much coveted and richly deserved STFU award goes to wine lover.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 11, 2009 2:11 PM

"Community" bought
Project in the bag, they thought
All might come to naught

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at June 11, 2009 2:26 PM

Snark,

Would you award BrooklynGreene the blue ribbon in the Urban Planning Haiku division already? Although I don't know how many syllables ****** has.

Posted by: slopefarm at June 11, 2009 2:38 PM

> Would you award BrooklynGreene the blue ribbon in the
> Urban Planning Haiku division already?

Mekka-lekka hi mekka hiney ho!

The wish is granted, long live SnarkSlope.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 11, 2009 2:42 PM

There once was a dream come from Ratner
That the community knew was disaster
It was a scheme
To increase his esteem
And make FCR our pay master.

********

I thought I would visit a limerick
The haiku, a tiresome gimmerick.
My husband is Irish
I thought I'd go fish
Looking for words rhymed with orange.

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at June 11, 2009 3:03 PM

BrooklynGreene That last bit of doggerel sounded almost like a haikmerick :-) (don't ask me. i don't know)

Posted by: bxgrl at June 11, 2009 3:33 PM

Nothing snappy left
I find I'm running on fumes
Give me a good book

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at June 11, 2009 4:49 PM

I actually respect DDDB post - it finally includes some long missing honesty -

You see DDDB is simply a NIMBY organization and today's post comes closest to admitting it.

It doesnt matter that people (in Brooklyn and NYC) like seeing professional basketball and other mass entertainment events like concerts, circuses, comedians, etc....Just dont put it in my backyard - We dont care if the best place in NYC and maybe in the country is at AY (b/c of the convergence of so many train lines), we dont care that in the alternative that people will be driving all over the city and inner suburbs to these kind of places , creating pollution and traffic - as long as our little neighborhood (if you want to call that $hithole a neighborhood) is preserved just as we liked it when we moved here (2yrs ago) we dont care about anyone else.

And it doesnt matter that if you build large residential bldsgs and offices at AY, you can maximize the mass transit and pedestrian options, reducing sprawl, traffic, pollution etc.... We want things the way we want them - to hell with the general good!

When I read DDDB post I have to say AMEN - finally a bit of clarity about what they are really about.....

As for AY - there was no bait and switch - it was simply a case of stall, mislead, exaggerate and sue - that plus a financial meltdown and the NIMBYs won a big victory - but the real tragedy isnt that Gehery is out (I frankly thought his stuff was ugly anyway - and I werent all the NIMBYs screaming how ugly it all was too?) - no the real tragedy is that all the delay and frivolous litigation will result in, is years more with a ugly hole at Atlantic & Flatbush and then we will have years of an arena surrounded by parking lots and it will probably be another 50 years before we have anything to be proud of in the heart of our city.

As usual - lies, exaggerations and general F-U-D results in the worst outcome possible - it isnt that there wasnt anything to yell about or demand when it came to AY - its that NIMBY egomaniacs couldnt see the real issues through the lenses of their selfish agenda - and btw go back and look at my posts even 3 years ago on this - I always predicted this was a destinct possibility.

Posted by: fsrg at June 11, 2009 6:03 PM

Amen fsrg, amen.

Posted by: JPD at June 11, 2009 8:06 PM

Amen....and hallelujah fsrq.

Posted by: eastriver at June 11, 2009 8:08 PM

Fsrg, it's late, I'm tired, but I have to say, that was total and pure hooey. How you could extrapolate that mess from the DDDB post is beyond me. I'm sure we'll get a chance to do it again, so I won't bother to go point by point now. I totally disagree with you. No amens here.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at June 12, 2009 12:48 AM

fsrg
I don't understand your point and I don't that you do either. You keep speaking on behalf of NIMBY and saying that they are plain wrong. But you can only speak for yourself

The developers and the politicians promoted this as a great additiona to Brooklyn. A sports, entertainment and cultural stadium, housing, employmnet and a retail center. It would be a world famous building on par to the Sydney Opera House that Brooklynites might boast off. This isn't going to happen particularly after this latest debacle

The objections are based on congestion and the quality of life in the surrouding neighborhoods. (I frankly was down with having a Gehery building in Brooklyn, better than a non-descript building were cost is the only criteria)
But dismissing critics as just NIMBY is forgetting that this is their back yard., not the visitors that use the stadium for special events.

Mediocre architecture and neglectful city planning is accepted in America. The determining factor is always the bottom line. Everyone will have to live with what ever is built on this site. Every new building that aspects to greatness is controversial, whether it is cost, looks or mechanical problems. But at the end of the day there sits an iconic momument. The latest 'artist's rendering' look like a box of steel, concrete and glass not something that makes this world a better place.

Posted by: oldtimer at June 12, 2009 6:15 AM

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