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June 24, 2009

Try This Green(point) Roof on for Size

How cool is this: Husband-and-wife green roof architects Chris and Lisa Goode starting planning this rooftop garden atop a warehouse in Greenpoint last December, enlisting the help of an aspiring urban farmer and a planting specialist from the New York Botanical Garden along the way. And so far the results are very encouraging, according to an article this week from New York Magazine. Corn, radishes, lettuce and peppers have all been planted, and the yield thus far is being snapped up by such locavore-friendly restaurants like Marlow & Sons and Anella. Great stuff.
This Is a Roof [New York Magazine]
Photo by Lucas Foglia

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Thats the safest place to grow veggies in Greenpernt.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 24, 2009 10:03 AM

WOW. Nobody uses radishes in salads anymore. I wonder why that is?

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 10:04 AM

me no likely farm living in the city. it completely destroys the urban aesthetic. give me hot tar, brick, cinderblocks, and pipes. that is what i like about nyc. otherwise i would just move to a farm in nebraska if i wanted to see what is in that picture.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 10:06 AM

[groan]

Posted by: brownstoner at June 24, 2009 10:07 AM

sorry brownie, but it's a blog, people are entitled to their opinions. i like the city. not a farm. the thought of someone calling themself an "urban farmer" is just cringe-worthy to me.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 10:09 AM

Dibs - You're not eating w/ the right people - 4 salads I've been served in the last 2 weeks had radishes (home-grown).

Posted by: Arkady at June 24, 2009 10:10 AM

I've been reading an enlightening article from the New Yorker mag that refutes in part the eco-friendly mantra of "buying local". When you take into account the environmental costs of the complete life cycle of the product, it can make more ecological sense to get your apples from New Zealand than from New York. Food for thought.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/02/25/080225fa_fact_specter

Posted by: nycdelisauce at June 24, 2009 10:13 AM

Your pretty traditional in your view of what a city is Rob. You old fashioned thing you.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 24, 2009 10:13 AM

What GP/W too good for the BROOKLYN Botanic Gardens?! Rob, I've always enjoyed fresh produce grown by my dad in his Brooklyn backyard.

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 24, 2009 10:15 AM

This is cool - What, people are only allowed to grow fruits and veggies in the backyard of a brownstone? Good use of space.

Is a pepper a fruit or veggie? It has seeds.

Posted by: dirty_hipster at June 24, 2009 10:16 AM

I guess the New Yorker is right, that's why Al Gore flies evreywhere on a gas-gusselling private jet.

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 24, 2009 10:16 AM

This is GREAT!!!!!!!
hats off to folks like this

Posted by: gemini10 at June 24, 2009 10:16 AM

> me no likely farm living in the city. it completely destroys the urban aesthetic.

Chucklehead.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 24, 2009 10:17 AM

Arkady, I have had home grown ones in salads at people's homes but never in a restaurant in many years.

And, a radish is one of the true vegetables in that it contains no seeds. Everything with a seed inside is botanically a fruit.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 10:17 AM

It's a fruit, dh.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 10:18 AM

That's pretty awesome. And it's putting my tiny balcony vegetable garden to shame.

Posted by: brooklynfamily at June 24, 2009 10:18 AM

I'm also growing Nasturtioms for the first time this year. They are edible flowers, rob. :)

They seem very easy to grow.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 10:28 AM

Sorry, but it's hard to see how anyone could be against this...

Posted by: brownstoner at June 24, 2009 10:31 AM

why is it hard to believe that someone doesnt want nyc rooftops looking like a farm? why? cheeze itz.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 10:33 AM

Last year I bought several cherry tomato plants, lovingly transferred them to beautiful clay container, lovingly watered them, lovingly fed them. For all that Love I got a total of 3 tomatoes. Where's the gratitude? I gave one to the Great EVLL- on an antique plate with a silver knife and fork.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2009 10:33 AM

New York, like most big cities, is too dependent on imported (from anywhere) produce. I think these gardens are great, and would like to see them expanded. We have a lot of roofs sitting there doing nothing. A city that can help feed itself is a good thing, all around. Rob, I'm sorry, the urban aesthetic has plenty of places to thrive. How many rooftops does one see everyday, anyway?

Posted by: Montrose Morris at June 24, 2009 10:40 AM

rob did your parents not give you enough attention as a kid? you seem really damaged and full of hate.

Posted by: randolph at June 24, 2009 10:41 AM

I am with Mr. B. I really can't wrap my head around your problem with this rob, and trust me, I am really trying. It makes zero sense. Being that the garden is located on a roof, it would seem that for the most part it would be out of sight and out of mind.

Posted by: king of the burg at June 24, 2009 10:44 AM

"Sorry, but it's hard to see how anyone could be against this..."

Ditto. Hats off to Chris and Lisa. Great stuff.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 10:46 AM

This is about the coolest thing I've seen all week.
Rob's comments are about the most ignorant things I've seen all week.

Posted by: sendmemedia at June 24, 2009 10:49 AM

rob did your parents not give you enough attention as a kid? you seem really damaged and full of hate.

Posted by: randolph at June 24, 2009 10:41 AM

That's the type of comment why people hate you, randi. Mirror, mirror, on the wall....

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 10:50 AM

"That's the type of comment why people hate you, randi. Mirror, mirror, on the wall...."

i'm serious though. what is wrong with rob and why is he so bitter??? i may be annoying but i am not full of hate.

Posted by: randolph at June 24, 2009 10:52 AM

Personally, I can't figure out why anyone would stand up for Rob on this one. His comments are absolutely moronic.

To hate an urban garden is asinine.

This is so cool. I want one!

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 10:57 AM

randi, you have to meet Rob in person once and everything will make sense :o).

Posted by: Kensingtonian at June 24, 2009 10:58 AM

how much would something like this cost to put up on our building roof? It'll definitely save me some cooling expenses considering I am on the top floor and it gets substantially hotter in the summers than other floors.

Posted by: Kensingtonian at June 24, 2009 10:59 AM

Kensingtonian:

Not everyone here wants to meet up in person. It's a blog and was created with the intent to be an online forum. Rob makes inappropriate comments here on this blog. That's really what is of concern. Some of us have no intention of gathering together for a variety of reasons.

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 11:00 AM

I am also not crazy about the locovore movement. It's unrealistic and, when you're talking about gardening in some of the contaminated soil in Brooklyn, potentially dangerous.

I guess gardening on a roof reduces the risk of that... but I do have to wonder: structurally, is this really safe? Or is the amount of re-engineering it requires really feasible? It seems like if this was easy to do, there would already be more rooftop gardens.

And what happens in a strong wind?

Posted by: Heather at June 24, 2009 11:00 AM

ugh fine. ive changed my mind. it's a wonderful beautiful thing and there is something wrong with me. pass the pitchfork.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 11:01 AM

Wouldn't it be great if entire blocks would do this- or maybe commercial buildings would allow roof gardens for nabes?

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2009 11:01 AM

Kensingtonian, I think I read recently that there are tax subsidies that encourage green roofs, for exactly that reason.

Posted by: southbrooklyn at June 24, 2009 11:02 AM

How long before that roof collapses?

Posted by: RaginCajun at June 24, 2009 11:04 AM

Ragin...I was going to post a snarky comment about that but I read the story first to make sure it indicated that they hired an engineer to assess the loads; which they did.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 11:08 AM

"ugh fine. ive changed my mind. it's a wonderful beautiful thing and there is something wrong with me. pass the pitchfork.

*rob*"

and you don't even have the balls to stand up for yourself. PL of the day.

Posted by: randolph at June 24, 2009 11:08 AM

i just saw this last night so i haven't fully read the whole website yet:
http://leahgauthier.com/sharecropper/?page_id=8

Leah Gauthier, artist:
"I am stitching together a working micro farm, (total size yet to be determined) for one growing season, from parcels of donated land or growing spaces, located in assorted environments in each of the five borroughs around the city. Possible sites include, private residences, office buildings, schools, small business, non-profits, hospitals, galleries, museums, community gardens, government facilities, and vacant lots. Working under a traditional sharecropper agreement, rent will be paid with a portion of my harvest, and the balance shared with local soup kitchens."

Posted by: winthropst at June 24, 2009 11:08 AM

BX girl,maybe the containers you had were too small, you may have gotten them too late in the season for much vegatative growth before flowering and fruit production starts.

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 24, 2009 11:08 AM

11217 stop being a drama queen. i dont make "innapropriate comments" all i did was state my distaste for rural aesthetics. that is all. people yammer on and on all the time about they dont like new construction's aesthetics and prefer old brownstones, but panic on MSN if someone comments about their distaste for how something else looks.

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 11:10 AM

Heather- why is the locovore movement unrealistic? I'm sure they have had to address the problems of gardenig on a roof, but urban gardening is a necessity, I think, for the future and some of the ideas for vertical farming are very exciting. As far a contaminated soil- rooftop gardens bring in new soil- they aren't digging up back yards and empty lots.

As far as that goes, anything grown in the earth is subject to contamination of one kind or another. No matter where its grown.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2009 11:13 AM

Greetings from London!

Anyone have any thoughts about whether the tomatoes I am growing in my yard will be toxic? They are in a raised bed but the bed was there before I moved in and I have no idea about the purity of the soil in it. I also have some in a pot on my deck so I have some that I know I can eat but I will be sad if I can't eat all the tomatoes that are growing in the yard.

Posted by: wasder at June 24, 2009 11:13 AM

randolp, you've posted here 3 x with nothing but criticism of others. Why don't you add something for a change. This is why people have such disdain for you. You're about as useful as tits on a boar.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 11:14 AM

ok dibs.

i heart radishes. and marlow and sons. their brick chicken, holy shit.

Posted by: randolph at June 24, 2009 11:16 AM

Hi Wasder--

The best thing to do is get your soil tested:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/nyregion/long-island/05Rhomeweb.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=soil%20testing&st=cse

Posted by: tinarina at June 24, 2009 11:16 AM

heather - when i think of the locavore movement i think it extends to produce from the hudson valley, connecticut, long island , new jersey, etc. so it's a realistic movement for some people in the city.

nyc gardeners should definitely know the risks of growing non-container plants in contaminated soil. rooftop gardens like this need to be supplemented by produce from other sources. i see them more as symbolic. to make people aware of where their food comes from before it landed on the grocery store shelf or table.

regarding strong winds - they would need to use plastic covers like most farms do.

Posted by: winthropst at June 24, 2009 11:21 AM

Thanks for the links Tinarina. Will send some soil for testing. Wish it was as easy as plant them and eat them though. I have a nice sunny yard and bet the tomato plants will yield big time. How lovely to be able to stroll out and pick some tomatoes and basil from the garden. Wish I didn't have to think about such things but alas I do.

Posted by: wasder at June 24, 2009 11:26 AM

winthropst...i believe the plastic covers are used primarily to get a "greenhouse effect" in the beginning of the season when its cold. Never heard of anything like that for wind. I think' they'd blow off.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 11:26 AM

joe from brooklyn, -Plants hate me :-( I can kill a plant just by glancing in its direction, I swear.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2009 11:28 AM

wasder, when are you back? We need to do drinks and perhaps a jam session too. Just to keep this post quasi-on-topic, I wonder if this couple will be making jam with any of the fruit they're growing.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 11:30 AM

Oh. You just reminded me Biff. I'm also growing red currants and we will probably make jam this weekend or next.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 11:32 AM

"panic on MSN"

Funny!

I'm cool with this. But if you're not into it, I understand as well. It's a nice thing, but probably won't save the planet on it own.

Posted by: East New York at June 24, 2009 11:43 AM

This really is what they should do with the roof of the Empire Stores in Dumbo. Encourage the French Culinary Institute or the Culinary Institute of America to open a school and restaurant in the building and then build the most kick ass urban roof farm on the large flat roof. There could even be an outdoor restaurant up there that is open a few months of the year where most of the fruits and vegetables that are served were grown right there!

Posted by: mopey dick at June 24, 2009 11:43 AM

I'd be interested in more details about what they had to do to the roof before they brought in all the soil.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 11:47 AM

mopey dick, it's funny you said that. As I passed over the Empire Stores (on the Brooklyn Bridge) the other day, I was wondering if there isn't something they could do with the rooftops, which appear to be covered in black tar.

Posted by: Biff Champion at June 24, 2009 11:47 AM

dave - plastic covers are used primarily for the greenhouse effect but they also help with the wind when they can be kept to stay put. plastic that is placed on wire hoops (so as not to damage certain plants) fly away more easily like you said.

plastic placed closer to the ground and to the plant has a better chance of staying put - also sometimes it's kept on beyond just the beginning of the season. lighter colored plastic reflects the sun and allows better production at the peak of growing season while black plastic accelerates the heat and gets some plants ready for the beginning.

Posted by: winthropst at June 24, 2009 11:49 AM

winthropst...I didn't know you were such the gardener. You should come over to see my tomatoes. :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 11:51 AM

I need to ask everyone here a question- Why was Dave allowed to use the "N word" without any repercussions from the Brownstoner readers???????!!!!

I will await your answers...

The What (Reaches for the Rocket Launcher)

Someday this war is gonna end...

"Yes, Kens, "faggot" is as bad as "nigger." Both are typically used in the same tone and for the same effect. Both will get you an upgrade to a hate crime when assault is involved. Oddly though, both are used by repective members of both groups amongst themselves.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 23, 2009 11:25 AM"

Posted by: Return of The What at June 24, 2009 11:55 AM

What, don't see your point here...

Posted by: wasder at June 24, 2009 11:57 AM

Dibs - Will you make sauce chausseur w/ your currants & serve it w/ wild boar or venison?
I'm a carnivore & don't really care about vege so it's hard to be a locavore. I'm not an omnivore so squirrels & rats don't appeal.

Posted by: Arkady at June 24, 2009 11:58 AM

dave - i didn't know it either until i had an epiphany this spring(!)
studying up now for an apprenticeship at an organic farm in hawaii next year.
i'm soaking sundried tomatoes now for lunch.

Posted by: winthropst at June 24, 2009 11:59 AM

> I will await your answers...

Perhaps because he is using it in an explanatory rather than derogatory context?

Oh, I forgot, you don't do context.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at June 24, 2009 12:00 PM

BRING IT BACK TO THE OT WHAT. I'M NOT GOING TO EXPLAIN TO YOU ON EVERY SINGLE THREAD.

GROW THE F&*&CK UP.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 12:01 PM

arkady...I LOVE both wild boar and venison. The best wild boar I've had in NYC is at Cantina Toscana on 1st Ave and 60th in Manhattan.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 12:03 PM

I have to say, while I think this is great idea, I think that the execution would be better served by using sub-irrigated planters instead. Notwithstanding the amount of rain we've had recently, when it gets hot and dry (and it will) the amount of water needed to water that roof garden is way more than what you would need with sub-irrigated planters. Not only do they use much less water (and use the water they have much more efficiently), are less maintenance, but sub-irrigated planters are much easier to control in terms of what does into your soil (so you don't have to worry about your toxic Brooklyn soil) and are a much more realistic example for the rest of us who want to have a small patch of urban crops.

And no, I don't work for earthbox or anything like that (but have had excellent results on my roof deck). For more info than you'll ever want (I've spent way too much time there), I highly recommend insideurbangreen.org. Lots of links and tutorials on DIY urban gardens.

Posted by: Grendel at June 24, 2009 12:05 PM

Grendel--nice post.

Posted by: wasder at June 24, 2009 12:13 PM

On the face of it seems like a great idea but when i loook at our back garden and how filthy everything gets from the rain / polution mix I second guess. Still - I would think it's better than just doing nothing which is what I will likely do in regards to garden on our roof.....

Posted by: 10thStreetReno at June 24, 2009 12:54 PM

I can't beleive the what is that stupid. How does he even switch the computer on?

Posted by: dittoburg at June 24, 2009 1:08 PM

I'm now becoming more and more convinced that The What = BHO = brickoven = cornerbodega.

All are incredibly stupid in the same way.

Dense, actually.

Posted by: 11217 at June 24, 2009 1:10 PM

BHO does seem to be the only other poster on here using ROFL etc acronyms and ten exclamation points. So either BHO is a 12 yr old or the What.

Posted by: dittoburg at June 24, 2009 1:14 PM

DIB,
Who has time for reading things before commenting?

By the way, I'm totally going to get some engineers to assess MY load.

Posted by: RaginCajun at June 24, 2009 2:14 PM

I have no problem with restaurants buying certified organic from upstate and Long Island farms (in fact, it's great) but I'm scared to eat produce grown in New York City. I know what the air is like up on that roof, and it's polluted as hell.

Roberta's and others are also renting out space in people's backyards. They claim it's safe because they use containers.

Posted by: mopar at June 24, 2009 2:23 PM

Wasder, the only thing is those huge tomatoes your going to yield is they might have no taste if this rain keeps up. You might want to cover some of the pots if they seem to saturated, more difficult to keep the excessive watering off of the yard plants.

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 24, 2009 2:24 PM

The What = BHO = brickoven = cornerbodega = Dead Cat Bounce

Posted by: ghettoazzpnkbtch at June 24, 2009 2:27 PM

New York is filthy. They should be growing ornamentals or grasses on that rooftop.

Posted by: mopar at June 24, 2009 2:32 PM

BX girl, don't give up, just talk to some older people from your neigborhood, horticulturalists aren't born, they're made. Look for an 'OG' (old gardener) and they should be able to schoold you on the basics

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 24, 2009 2:34 PM

School, not scold.

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 24, 2009 2:34 PM

Yes Mopar, New York is filthy. Plants clean the air, that's why we need more of them. I would rather eat an organic eggplant I grew myelf than the E-Coli variety they grow in Mex- I mean California, California yeah...

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 24, 2009 2:38 PM

DIB,
Who has time for reading things before commenting?

By the way, I'm totally going to get some engineers to assess MY load.

Posted by: RaginCajun at June 24, 2009 2:14 PM

ROTFLMMFAO at BOTH comments.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2009 3:07 PM

Joe, you want to eat an organic eggplant that's had all kinds of heavy metals and dust fall on it and been absorbed into the skin, water, and soil? I don't.

I prefer to get all my vegetables from out-of-town organic farms. I'm doing a CSA box.

Whaddya wanna bet these restaurants are growing/buying produce made in NYC because it's cheaper? These farms are not regulated. They are not organic.

Posted by: mopar at June 24, 2009 3:33 PM

mopar - the voice of reason!

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 4:08 PM

mopar - the voice of reason!

also, pigeon poop. gack!

*rob*

Posted by: PitbullNYC at June 24, 2009 4:08 PM

If I grow organically I'm not just using the soil in the sidewalk tree that people pour antifreeze on. I mean using fresh topsoil. There is the matter of acid rain/pollution from coal plants in the Midwest (you know that suppossedley clean place they grow all your food...) which you get everywhere anyway. As far as standard smog, my parent's garden is in Marine Park, which probably has the best air quality in NYC, if you wanna hear about smog, ask an ot about the 60's when laundry on the line would turn brown. Big improvement in air quality in BK from the bad old days.

Posted by: Joe from Brooklyn at June 24, 2009 4:14 PM

"As far as standard smog, my parent's garden is in Marine Park, which probably has the best air quality in NYC, if you wanna hear about smog, ask an ot about the 60's when laundry on the line would turn brown. Big improvement in air quality in BK from the bad old days."

That's right mopar, that's what I was telling you the other day :-)

We do have a load of peaches coming in.

Posted by: denton at June 24, 2009 5:18 PM

Why I hate the locovore movement could be like, a book. Or at least a rant. Possibly an entire blog in and of itself? And maybe "hate" is too strong a word. It's just... you know, I was raised by hippies, I've seen all of this back-to-land urbanity and diy ludditity before.

It doesn't work. It's not sustainable. And I'm not sure it would be healthy even if it was.

Look... there's nothing wrong with growing tomatoes on your roof. It's nice. Just don't pretend you're saving the world by doing so.

Posted by: Heather at June 24, 2009 7:10 PM

I hear you, Heather, and can understand where you're coming from. You're right in that totally locavore isn't sustainable. But if a place like NYC sourced even 10% of its food locally (meaning within 100 miles or so), it would be good for the economy and the landscape and people's overall health.

More important, it would shake up the hold that agribusiness (Monsanto, Cargill, etc) has on us now and pave the way for greater availability of fresh, healthily raised food.

Posted by: tinarina at June 24, 2009 8:58 PM

Heather, you were raised by hippies? I ate dinner with organic farmers once a month in Santa Cruz for several years.

But anyway, no one's growing vegetables in Marine Park to sell to restaurants that I know of, but quite a few people are doing this in Bushwick and Greenpoint, which are nasty, polluted places. I see what accumulates on my windowsills. There is a world of difference between the amount of pollution in the air in South Slope and upstate New York.

Posted by: mopar at June 24, 2009 11:17 PM

It doesn't do bugger all to agribusiness. What might be more effective would be to buy organic produce from agribusinesses who also have the resources to farm responsibly, given the demand. Buying your fresh herbs from Satur Farms on Long Island or a rooftop in Brooklyn does nothing except make you feel better. And while that's nice, it doesn't mean anything.

Yes, mopar. Quaker hippies in West Philly in the seventies. I think this explains unfortunately too much about my crankiness now.

Posted by: Heather at June 25, 2009 7:43 AM

« One Pierrepont Mansion in the Sky Goes Into Contract More Naming Rights for Barclay's »

June 24, 2009

Try This Green(point) Roof on for Size

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