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June 15, 2009

Nets Poised to Cash In on Brooklyn, the Brand?

bklyn%20nets%20logo.jpgNewsday checks in on why the Atlantic Yards arena, no matter what it looks like, would be such a boon for the Nets in terms of revenue: "The 'Brooklyn' brand is expected to be an instant merchandising success. The change in address alone will increase the value of the franchise—Forbes ranks the Nets 26th in value ($295 million) in the 30-team NBA; the Knicks ($613 million) are No. 1—but Forbes senior editor Kurt Badenhausen says the move into a more viable arena will be the biggest asset. 'They will control all of the revenues at the arena,' Badenhausen said. 'Right now, they share a significant amount of the revenues at the Izod Center with the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority.'" The story says that if the team actually does move to Brooklyn, it would both tap into Dodgers nostalgia and create a money-making rivalry between the Nets and the Knicks on par with the one that exists between the Mets and the Yanks. Still, as the story notes, "though the Nets already have a 20-year, $400-million naming-rights deal with Barclays, and 28 to 30 percent of suites have been sold before the shovel hits the ground in the fall - they will need to generate a great deal of revenue just to be able to pay off the ambitious project and still remain viable at the same time."
Nets Expected to Thrive With 'Brooklyn' Brand [Newsday]
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Posted by Gabby at 9:30 AM | Comments (24)
Categories: Atlantic Yards

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THEY will need to generate a great deal of revenue just to be able to pay off the ambitious project???

Exactly who's left holding the bag when this thing goes pear-shaped? The same taxpayers that are paying for the damn arena to be built in the first place, that's who.

If revenues aren't good (actually even if they are) then Ratner makes noises abut leaving unless "more concessions can be made." We're not just being ripped off now, we'll be ripped off until the day the Nets leave Brooklyn. And even after that we'll still have the bills.

Just the way sports franchises are run. Millionaire/Billionaire owners getting richer on the backs of taxpayers.

Posted by: Johnny at June 15, 2009 9:42 AM

Obviously I'm one of the very few people on this blog who thinks that the Nets moving to Brooklyn is a good thing for our city. That being said, IF this move happens (and clearly that's a big "if" at this point), the team will be incredibly successful (financially anyway, if not on the court). There's a tremendous passion for basketball in this city (Brooklyn), which clearly does not resonate with the granola-hippies types the comprise the majority of the resistence to this project (I doubt theres a lot of overlap between sports fans and DDDB membership). From Ft. Greene, to Bushwick, East New York to Coney Island, Brooklynites love this sport and the team will be embraced with open arms. Over time, the success of the team will be linked to its on court performance, but certainly in the first few seasons, the passion for the sport, the return of sport to Brooklyn, and the general sense of civic pride that Brooklynites have in our city will guarantee that the team will sell out the entire season (there ARE 2.7 million people here)...easily.

Posted by: FtGreeneCorey at June 15, 2009 11:07 AM

I also think that the Nets moving to Brooklyn would be a good thing. I hope that some day they have a beautiful arena in an appropriate place like Coney Island. The AY location is idiotic though.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 15, 2009 11:13 AM

"From Ft. Greene, to Bushwick, East New York to Coney Island, Brooklynites love this sport and the team will be embraced with open arms."

That may very well be, but can all that many people in those neighborhoods afford to go to more than one game per season? Arena sports events are not cheap. The love affair is a lot deeper when you can afford to visit the object of your affections. TV doesn't count. I don't have a problem with the team coming to Brooklyn. I do have a problem with it coming to the corner of Flatbush and Atlantic, and I have a huge problem with me paying for it, while being told it's a good thing for me and for Brooklyn.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at June 15, 2009 11:59 AM

It's precisely because we love sports that we're being bled dry by Ratner.

The issue isn't the crappy architecture. It isn't the Nets. It's the absolutely staggering transfer of wealth from the taxpayer to Ratner that's the issue.

And the proponents prediction that they'll be successful just proves my point. Why are the taxpayers of New York underwriting what even the proponents state will be a successful business? What happened to the "free" markets? This is just corporate welfare with hundreds of millions of our dollars.

Ftgreencorey, I'm a long way from being granola. Watched every game of NBA finals. I even like the Nets. Just don't like being robbed.

Posted by: Johnny at June 15, 2009 12:16 PM


"There's a tremendous passion for basketball in this city (Brooklyn), which clearly does not resonate with the granola-hippies types the comprise the majority of the resistence to this project (I doubt theres a lot of overlap between sports fans and DDDB membership)."

Agreed, and I'm looking forward to a Brooklyn-based pro team. The return of pro sports to Brooklyn is long overdue. Perhaps not ALL of the people in those neighborhoods afford to go to more than one game per season, but many will. It's a big borough.

"The AY location is idiotic though."

On the contrary, it is the obvious location for a facility of this sort. The site is adjacent to Brooklyn's existing downtown and is connected to multiple subway and commuter rail lines.

"It's the absolutely staggering transfer of wealth from the taxpayer to Ratner that's the issue."

He's a big-shot developer who got a sweetheart deal. Won't be the first time it's happened in NYC, won't be the last. Until Ratner came along, NO ONE had any intention/idea/financing/plan development in this area. Well, I'm willing to pay something if this area which I've seen go empty for my entire life will be not only developed, but include a pro basketball arena. And I really don't care whether he gets rich doing it or not. Let 'er rip.

Posted by: East New York at June 15, 2009 12:39 PM

"I'll be dreeeeeeaming...dreeeeeeaminnng..." - Vanessa Williams

***Bid half off peak comps***

Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at June 15, 2009 1:07 PM

Bob Marvin - Your comment is so far off base that it has single handedly demolished all of the respect I had built up for you based on your previous comments, which are generally thoughtful and informative.

The primary concern in placing an arena, where 20,000 people gather hundreds of times a year, should be proximity to transit lines. THere is no better transit hub in Brooklyn (and only a couple better in the whole country) than on top of the Atlantic Ave subway stop and LIRR terminal. Coney island would be a traffic (and therefore environmental) nightmare.

And I say this as someone who is pretty ambivalent about the project, and someone who lives nearby and will have to deal with the inconvenience of having 20,000 drunk basekteball fans and concert goers walking by my front door.

Posted by: bkre at June 15, 2009 1:48 PM

I think that Flatbush and Atlantic is the perfect location for the arena...assuming you actually want people to go to games utilizing mass transit as opposed to driving. Coney Island would be a great location if you wanted people to drive to games. Every single trainline in New York City is either located at Atlantic (along with the LIRR) or is in close proximity. I think that the key will be seriously dissuading people from driving. For example, I DO strongly agree with the sentiment that allowing the empty AY lots to serve as surface parking would be a complete disaster. That cannot be allowed to happen.

Posted by: FtGreeneCorey at June 15, 2009 1:52 PM

I found out the other day Ratner has a whole floor in the NYT building devoted to selling luxury boxes, with mockups and everything.

Posted by: denton at June 15, 2009 2:27 PM

The team will be embraced by the people who will never be able t afford the games but will line Ratner's pockets with all the franchised merchandise.

Posted by: BH76 at June 15, 2009 2:30 PM

The team will be embraced by the people who will never be able to afford the games but will line Ratner's pockets with all the franchised merchandise.

Posted by: BH76 at June 15, 2009 2:33 PM


We've already lined Ratner's pockets. When our property taxes go up next year, we should
be sure to remind ourselves how grateful we are.

Posted by: Johnny at June 15, 2009 3:23 PM

Does anyone really believe people who drive everywhere, anyway, are going to suddenly take the subway or the LIRR to a Nets game at AY because it sits on a transit hub? These are the same people who drive to Knicks games, to Yankee Stadium and Shea (can't remember what it's called now), etc, etc. All of them are near public transportation, too. This is a testosterone driven sports culture, and the driving of cars to these events is going to happen, no matter where it is, for both practical and impractical reasons. People will be parked as far away as Crown Heights and Park Slope. Lucky us all around.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at June 15, 2009 3:44 PM

MM - yes, some people drive to Yankee Stadium, Citifield, and MSG, even though all are near public transit. But a ton of people also take trains. Go to the Shea Stadium subway stop on a game day (Or the Yankee stadium A or metro north stops)and it's as busy as grand central station during rush hour. The point is that if you put an arena on top of multiple transit lines and make it difficult to park, SOME people will still drive, but a heck of a lot more people will take the path of least resistance and take transit. If you put the stadium off someplace not convenient to transit the EVERYONE will drive. There's a big difference between 5,000 people driving into your neighborhood looking to park and 20,000 people doing the same thing. There have been multiple studies which have proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt. The most conclusive was about the new arean in DC (called the MCI center at the time, don't know what it's called now) which is also located an several transit lines. After it was open for a couple of seasons, they found that far more people were taking transit to games than even their most agrresive predictions. ANd that's in DC which has a much less robust transit system and much stronger car culture than NYC - the american capital for transit.

Posted by: bkre at June 15, 2009 4:01 PM

New York Times published a traffic study several years ago. Gridlock in all directions as far as the Atlantic Avenue and Columbia, down by the water.

Secondary to the financial swindle in my mind, but traffic's gonna be a nightmare. Even after the damn thing is built.

What am I saying, if the damn thing is built.


Posted by: Johnny at June 15, 2009 4:12 PM

I'm not saying there won't be traffic in the area surrounding Atlantic and Flatbush on gameday. All I'm saying is that trafic would be infinitely worse if the Arean were located in a neighborhood without transit (or with significantly fewer transit options).

Posted by: bkre at June 15, 2009 4:31 PM

At Citi Field/Shea they line up a 10+ trains at the end of the game on various side tracks, and one enters the station as another leaves. Are the tracks at Atlantic-Pacific configured in such a way to make this possible? Obviously there are lots of train lines and tracks, but it's a matter of being able to properly stagger the trains. If they can't do this, its value as a transit hub for events of 20K+ people is limited. It should be possible at nearby Hoyt-Schermerhorn, but that only has the A, C, F, and G lines.

Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at June 15, 2009 4:45 PM

6 years- I doubt it. But Coney Island has 4 train lines and Keyspan Park.As well as parking. Considering the crowds who over the years have gone to Coney Island by the tens of thousands, transport seems to work there. However, perhaps the city should have considered building light rail lines in the outer boroughs instead of spending billions on one Manhattan line.

I don't know as the arena will be the real strain on the subway that the entire complex will be if its built as Ratner wants. That would be a disaster. The LIRR is also at the hub which is great if people come in from the Island for Nets games. What's the chances of that happening?

Posted by: bxgrl at June 15, 2009 7:00 PM

Montrose, have you ever gone to Yankees or Mets game? Afterwards, the subway platforms are so crowded that the MTA has staff just to man the crowds and ensure speedy access to trains. Extra trains are run and tons of people use them. The LIRR has stops at Nostrand, ENY, and Jamaica Center. Many people will also walk to games (like me). The same type of pattern will show itself when the Nets move to Brooklyn.

Posted by: Big Jugs at June 15, 2009 8:48 PM

I never said NO ONE would use public transportation, why is everything always taken so far out of context to the point of ridiculousness? And I have been at a game on the subway platform, and of course it's crowded. So what? My point is that the people who drive, will drive, no matter what, and they make up a sizable portion of game attendees. Using the existence of a transit hub as a reasoning for putting a stadium there is bogus, all the trains in the world stopping there means nothing to that part of the population. They are going to drive no matter what.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at June 16, 2009 12:10 AM

It's rather evident that the poor souls at Newsday haven't bothered to look at the models that underpin Forest City's plan for financing the arena, models that were produced in much more clement financial markets. These assume that Barclays is paying as much as it agreed to when the naming rights deal was first announced, before the repeated delays and the dumping of Frank Gehry (I'm sceptical). They also assume that debt service costs will be about 6% per year (they won't) and sponsorship and luxury box seats are robust (they haven't been). But get this. That terrible outdated model still calls for transfers of cash from the publicly-subsidized arena project company to help staunch the Nets' operating losses. A gold mine, kids, the Brooklyn Nets will not be. Without more subsidies, obvs.

Posted by: Gringcorp at June 16, 2009 4:30 PM

I will gladly take the subway to lower Manhattan, then PATH out to the Prudential Center, to cheer on the Newark Nets.

Posted by: Sparafucile at June 17, 2009 6:18 PM

"DC which has a much less robust transit system and much stronger car culture than NYC"

DC's Metro is light years ahead of the NYC subway in comfort, speed and reliability.

Posted by: Sparafucile at June 17, 2009 6:21 PM

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